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Pre-Crisis Superman Feat and Correction

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I am fine with if POTM and Sandman try to figute out how to handle the Superman scaling.
 
@Jared

Destroying a machine doesn't mean Supergirl matched 2-C energy though. Anymore than, to use a random example, a peak human smashing apart a massive city-busting laser mid-firing would make that human city level.

As for a 2-C upgrade, Sandman already gave a detailed argument on why we shouldn't scale Superman to Maaldor, so that's out. MrKing denied usage of the two 2-A feats and Ant agreed with him, so they're out. All that's really left is the GL thing, and I really don't know if that's enough.

I've already made my opinion on those two feats known. I think both 2-A feats are legitimate, but multiple staff members say that's not enough. I don't know what else to say on the topic.
 
Things tend to usually go slowly around here. We have to be patient.
 
Well, we can ask Sandman if he thinks Flash reversing the Anti Matter would be enough for a 2-C feat. The irony that it's easier to find some legitimate 2-A feats for Superman but not 2-C is kinda funny. Equally hilarious is that Supergirl beating a 2-A is more straight forward than her destroying a 2-C machine.

What about my proposal for the Jaxon feat only being 2-C (maybe 2-B). Is it possible that all Earth futures could be seen as at least only those named (a few dozen i think) or countless? I feel like if can get at least two solid 2-C feats people would be more willing to upgrade.

Also @Ant i get this is taking a while, and i thank you for being patient.
 
Flash was running around the concentrated amount of Anti-Matter, not through it. Like Supergirl, he was destroying the machine which caused the concentrated Anti-Matter to escape/dissipate. He did not force it back inti the machine. The Anti-Monitor said that he's destroying the machine and that the energy is escaping not being forced back.

"It is the Flash...he has destroyed the outer casing! Energy is escaping! All the power gone!"
 
Also, I think Supergirl beating the Anti-Monitor can be explained that he doesnt passively get stronger everytime a universe is destroyed. The Anti-matter universe gets bigger everytime a positive universe is destroyed but its been noted that the Anti-Monitor absorbs power from his universe. His powersource grows but he still need to tap into it so he's power, even after absorbing numerous universe, is not the same every time. Example is before he went to the beginning of time, the Anti-Monitor beefed himself up by absorbing Anti-Matter from his universe. This could explain why AM got wrecked by Supergirl but later just shrugged off attacks by DCs most powerful heroee.
 
I definitely agree with the smashing machine part; it reminds me of the DCAU version of Hawkgirl being merely Low 7-B despite smashing a planet busting cannon right as it was about to fire. It's not really a feat.
 
Are you certain? It doesn't seem to have been intended as a 2-A feat, just 2-C or so.
 
It would also leave us without solid justifications for Low 2-C.
 
DarkDragon said above that the big bang was the main reason for his current rating though?

Anyway, if the Jaxon feat is taken as 2-C and the big bang was treated as 3-A, why would the Low 2-C rating be kept? It would have to be one or the other.
 
That was the reason for when he used to be 3-A, but Big Bang feats in fiction are often inconsistent on being 3-A or Low 2-C. And I said I was fine either way, but I guess Matt think 3-A is more justifiable.
 
The Big Bang feat was treated as a physical explosion, not a spacetime expansion, so it was only 3-A going by this.

I personally don't mind a 2-C rating though, but we would have to properly explain it.
 
Well, infinite timelines were never mentioned in the story, and the Crisis happened several years later.
 
Anyway, I think that your summary seems fine.
 
I'm alright with leaving him where he is, but its gonna be weird if after a week of debating we not only don't get an upgrade, but a downgrade instead. Weird because everything here would suggest an upgrade.

I'd vote to upgrade him to 2-C at least based on PotM's justification. At the time of this comic there was around 230 https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-230 to 276 https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-276 Universe's currently showcased before the Jaxon feat, as far as I'm aware anyway.
 
Feat description revisions and citations:

Current: He was hit with the power of 100 Galaxies and was only slightly surprised.

Source: Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen Vol 1 #147 March 1972

Actual Dialogue:

"I captured you! And I must subdue you!! Even if it takes takes the combined magnetic repulsion-flow of a hundred galaxies." *Punches Superman*

"Yeeow! If he can muster that kind of power, I may be in trouble."

New Description Suggestion: Considers the combined magnetic repulsion-flow of a hundred galaxies a possible threat.

He has endured the gravity and weight of heavy-mass galaxies | Forever People Vol 1 #1 March 1971

He could cross the universe in seconds, and the multiverse in minutes | DC Comics Presents Vol 1 #29 January 1981

On a side note, this issue also showcases Base Spectre no-selling Pre-Crisis Superman.

Tied in a running race across the galaxy against the Pre-Crisis Flash | Superman Vol 1 #199 August 1967, The Flash Vol 1 #175 December 1967

Flew to a long dead universe in seconds to safely sneeze | Action Comics Vol 1 #273 February 1961
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
Something like this?
Low Multiverse level (His clash with Jaxon the Mighty generated enough energy to counter the combined power of the future Green Lantern Corps, which destroyed multiple timelines)

You can consider me neutral on this btw. The feat still seems 2-A to me but if people disagree I'm not gonna argue it.
Click to expand...
That's why i was suggesting a possible "2-C (Clash with Jaxon lowe end) to possibly 2-A (High end interpretation and AM feat" But if Sandman has a point, it's possible that AM was only at 2-C when she fought him (i do remember them saying he's at least absorbed a few universes or had a small bit of his anti matter energy within him). It's possible they still are 2-A feats, but most people seem more fine with them being 2-C.

Personally, I'll check my enthusiasm for 2-A Superman right away if it at least means we get some sort of upgrade. Riley and APM are right it would be a shame getting all this info for nothing, and I think 2-C would look better seeing how so many other Pre-Crisis characters are already 2-C to begin with.

EDIT: I think another Low 2-C feat for Supergirl in case of a downgrade was here combating Blackstaar who could control "every aspect of the cosmos" and had the power over the forces that "held the universe together"
 
I replaced a crude word, for safety reasons.
 
I am fine with 2-C though there's a chance Superman will get upgrades further given all the weird things he's doing just in the last year of comics or so.
 
Antvasima

The characters that would directly scale off of Supe's being 2-C is Golden Age Superman, Supergirl, Krypto, Comet, Composite Superman, Karate Kid and Validus. That list could increase depending on what other Pre Crisis characters you decide to make a profile for. The likes of Darkseid, Spectre, Doctor Fate, Time Trapper and Mordru would obviously scale far above this, but most of them are already 2-C to begin with, and changes to tiers (namely whats happening with Darkseid) has nothing to do with Superman's tier.
 
Maybe POTM is willing to edit the pages? He is good at handling this sort of thing.
 
Well, at least PC Superman can say he's still stronger than Post Flashpoint now.

... unless Rebirth ends up blowing up the 6th Dimension and kills Dr Manhattan.
 
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