Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
No disrepsect, but i don't really follow a lot of this.MrKingOfNegativity said:...Having said that, just based on this info alone, I'm pretty sure this is going to need a lot more supporting showings backing it up before we go through with this kind of an upgrade. Because A) Pre-Crisis Superman is notoriously inconsistent and has a lot of ridiculous high-end showing that are outside of his commonly portrayed upper limits, and B) one showing from PC Supergirl doesn't change the fact that several characters who scale to her and Supes haven't displayed raw feats or upper limits anywhere near this high, which really does matter in a franchise like DC where characters go from beating up universe-busters to getting kicked in the face by Batman.
Darkseid in particular doesn't start showing multiversal levels of power on his own until his true form is revealed. The story said form is revealed in makes a very big deal of the fact that we've never seen him anywhere near this powerful before, which wouldn't make sense if his far shittier Pre-Crisis avatars were already infinite multiversal on their own.
Except it wasn't just stated he "just" was a threat to multiple universes, it was stated that he was creating links to other dimensions, and so when his dimension collapses, it will threaten to drag all neighboring dimensions into it. That and even if you don't want to take Jokers word for it, i still think the fact that he has the power and the insight into Maaldor's powers should count for something, that's still a 2-C feat at absolutely worst.Matthew Schroeder said:Also the "Maaldor threatens multiple universes" is not a feat. It's just a statement of scale of threat. MCU Thanos is a threat to the universe even without the Stones but that doesn't make him 3-A.
Aren't you one that wanted him to be Low 2-C in the first place? Are you so opposed to our idea of upgrading Superman to even 2-C level that you're willing to just downgrade him an entire tier just because?Matthew Schroeder said:3-A honestly seemed like enough for Pre-Crisis.
Isn't Time Trapper consistently seen as on or above Superman's power level? Wouldn't that mean he would scale above Superman if his tier was upgraded?PrinceOfTheMorning said:@SuperAPM
Time Trapper scales from his own feats, not off of Pre-Crisis Supes.
1. We had True Darkseid at 2-A for a fairly long time before any of the 5-D stuff was looked at, because that was what his other, most obvious displays of power peaked at.SuperAPM said:I'll agree with most of MrKing's points except the part about Darkseid. True Darkseid is at least High 2-A, or 5th Dimensional (I'd honestly consider that a lowball), so him showing 2-A levels of power as an Avatar, Pre-Crisis no less, doesn't necessarily contradict this.
1. Except True Form Darkseid has been described as a being beyond and space for years, and Final Crisis went out of its way to point out that Darkseid is at least a 5th Dimensional level being, and that comic came out over a decade ago.MrKingOfNegativity said:1. We had True Darkseid at 2-A for a fairly long time before any of the 5-D stuff was looked at, because that was what his other, most obvious displays of power peaked at.
2. My point is that True Darkseid is the only version of the character (sans amps like Soulfire) which is legitimately portrayed as being multiversal in-story. The narrative makes it clear that his avatars weren't nearly that powerful before, and all of his strongest avatars are consistently shown to max out at much lower levels.
Unless you look exclusively at scaling VS other characters, which is terribly unreliable without any raw feats backing it up.