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Pre-Crisis Superman Feat and Correction

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Firestorm808

Firestorm808

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At the moment, the page gives the following description and link:

Restored his timeline via raw power alone during his fight with Jaxo.

This takes place in Superman Vol 1 #295 January 1976

In the last few pages not shown in the profile's link, a future Green Lantern explains what happened.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mpN097dU...SE4heZxq43w0Oe6zfMjpGdjGACHMYCw/s0/RCO017.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-euIzV3LL...36Q-U7ZTQx2uNJZo6Z7RcsKqQCHMYCw/s0/RCO018.jpg

"Superman's costume was used as a wedge to place time back on its proper track."

The Time Trapper sends the energy from an unknown amount of power rings to the time-dimension to wipe out all but one possible future.

To set things right, the lantern arranged a battle between Superman and the alternate future Jaxon. Their fighting generated enough power to counter the ring energy, restoring all possible futures.

TLDR: The corrected statement and links should be

Restored all possible futures via raw power alone his fight with Jaxon the Mighty.

Fought against Maaldor the Darklord who became a universal intelligence/conscious universe and threatens all universes around it need to be updated. | DC Comics Presents Vol 1 #72 August 1984

PS: On a side note, what is your take on restoring "all possible futures." Is that still Low 2-C or higher?
 
Well, the pre crisis multiverse was made up of infinite universes so I'm guessing it would also have infinite timelines as well.

So....

2-B?
 
According to the Crisis on Infinite Earths Compendium, the earth that Superman fought against Jaxon at is actually Earth-295 and considered an alternate universe in the Pre-Crisis verse. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Superman_Vol_1_295

So it could mean that at bare minimum he's 2-C if not outright 2-B if we consider all possible futures.
 
As I recall, each Universe within the Pre Crisis Multiverse was a variation of Earth Prime and are essentially alternate timelines, with certain Earths being variations of others. The Earth presented in this comic was a post apocalyptic hellscape known as Earth AD which had two variations, one where the cause for the apocalypse was a mysterious wave known as the vortex which caused worldwide natural disasters such as earthquakes and tsunamis to occur (Earth 295), and another where the cause for the apocalypse was due to nuclear war which also lead to the creation of the Atomic Knights and Heracles (Earth 86). Both were a direct variant of Earth One, with both having its own version of Superman and Lois Lane and such. Earth One's direct future was of course the Legion of Superheroes.

I'm gonna have to read the comic in full for context, but it sounds to me that Time Trapper erased all Universes from Earth One, Two, Three and beyond and left only Earth 295 behind, and Superman and Jaxon's fight restored all the afformentioned Universe's by countering the Ring's energy. Even if you count it as each Earth having its own possible futures (Earth one has LoSH and Earth AD, Earth Two has whatever, Earth Three has whatever, etc etc) That'd still have to be 2-B since I'd have to imagine each universe having an Infinite amount of possible futures.

Either way this would be a significant upgrade for a lot Pre Crisis characters such as Darkseid or Golden Age Superman, one of you is gonna need to get an admin on this.
 
You also have Supergirl hurting Base Anti-Monitor, who is 2-A even in base form, so it's not a totally inconsistent feat. And Time Trapper, Spectre, and Doctor Fate all have 2-B/2-A potential. I guess you could ask Matthew or Sandman what they think.
 
Trapper, Fate and Spectre should have no trouble scaling off this, its usually the other way around in which it'd be more difficult since they're supposed to be more powerful than Supe's.
 
Didn't Darkseid actually defeat Time Trapper and Mordru as well? Without being full power?

That adds to his scaling as well.
 
Actually, to put it into perspective the sheer gap in power between them, the story in question (The Great Darkness Saga) showcased Darkseid waking up from a one thousand year slumber after his final defeat in a heavily weakened state, so to rectify this dip he sought out the 3 most powerful objects in the Universe (Orb of Orthanax, Excalibur and Wand of Mentachem) and drained them completely dry to recharge his batteries. After this proved futile he sought out both Mordru and Time Trapper and also stole all of their powers, and even after all of that he was still Nowhere Near his full power.

Yikes.
 
I was about to say Darkseid is already 2-C but then I remembered he's only Low 2-C, so this would be a significant boost.

Of course bigger boost would be if Supe's is upgraded to 2-B based on this, we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Darkseid is in need of a severe profile update, I've got a first draft going on my sandbox2. The current scaling on his profile is not only lowballed, it's not actually based on anything concrete from the issues he was in. I read every single one of his appearances and there's a to of stuff missing from his profile the way it is now.
 
So Pre Crisis Darkseid's upgrade is a given, his reasoning for his rating should be:

(Defeated Both Time Trapper and Mordru whilst heavily weakened, and even after absorbing their powers was still nowhere near his full power)

But I'd honestly say Time Trapper and Mordru need an upgrade regardless, Time Trapper's mentioned that he warped all timelines so that the Legionairres would be forced to travel to his "Mock Universe" https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111279017/5392272-8806734204-51728.jpg And mentions in that panel that Mordru is specifically the reason why he can't dominate all of reality right off the bat. That'd easily put him on the same tier
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
Darkseid is in need of a severe profile update, I've got a first draft going on my sandbox2. The current scaling on his profile is not only lowballed, it's not actually based on anything concrete from the issues he was in. I read every single one of his appearances and there's a to of stuff missing from his profile the way it is now.
Click to expand...
I'm in agreement with this, which parts specifically need changing?
 
Enough that listing it all here in detail would be a pain lol. There's a metric ton of abilities he's missing, as well as incorrect terminology, overall bad formatting/grammar/barebones sections, etc. I'm planning on making a big CRT for it sometime this week or next, so you'll see the humongous list in detail there. Like I said, I went through literally every single New God appearance from their creation until now, and I've almost finished uploading all the scans from my hard drive.
 
Yeah to get back on topic, unless there are other 2-A Supes feats I've never heard of, I'd consider this an outlier for him.
 
Alright, but can we at least get a 2-C to 2-B rating? Those feats alongside the Maaldor feat are way above baseline Low 2-C.
 
I recall that being discussed before and also rejected. Being "Well above baseline Low 2-C is still Low 2-C given the gap between Low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable.
 
Matthew Schroeder

Not 2-A, 2-C at least and 2-B at most

EDIT: Hold on, I'm just now remembering how the tiering system in Tier 2 works, Recreating Infinite Timelines would be 2-A. I guess lowballing it to 2-C - 2-B is fair enough.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I recall that being discussed before and also rejected. Being "Well above baseline Low 2-C is still Low 2-C given the gap between Low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable.
Click to expand...
I mean more along the lines of him defeating beings that effect more that one dimension and reversing the effects of attacks that effect, even lowballed, potentially dozens of timelines.

That's at least 2-C, if not outright 2-B seeing how there are countless Earth One timelines and Superman restored all of them.
 
Affecting multiple timelines can be more of a range feat rather than a Tier feat; there are plenty of characters who are Low 2-C with multiversal range. But I think Matt knows more details.
 
That'd be more applicable to Time Trapper, Superman and Jaxon are actively producing enough kinetic force to recreate all possible timelines (which there are Infinite of)
 
Like SuperAPM stated, they weren't "affecting" the timelines, they were outright reversing the energy required to destroy countless timelines. And Pre-Crisis DC, at least according the COIE Compendium, considered those timelines as alternate universes.
 
Matthew Schroeder is the primary DC Comics expert but Sandman31 is also knowledgeable.
 
It probably be best to just wait instead of asking him the same question dozens of times in a row.
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
Yeah to get back on topic, unless there are other 2-A Supes feats I've never heard of, I'd consider this an outlier for him.
Click to expand...
I'd say the only other "2-A" Superman feats you could argue would be him scaling to Supergirl fighting Base Form Anti-Monitor (Who as far as i know is 2-A even in Base as he battled the Monitor, who is 2-A, for countless eon. That and i don't remember him being significantly weaker when she hurt him), this feat with the Countless Timelines, hurting Darkseid after he absorbed Time Trapper and Mordru (though i think he was amped at that time), and (this is a stretch) that feat where he busted Infinity and was potentially "destroying civilizations beyond number " but that's pretty vague.

Outside that, his feats range all over the place. I mean, nothing on, "Hurt Soulfire Darkseid so he's 1-A" level, but hard to pinpoint.
 
Issue 7 of COIE

https://***************.to/Comic/Crisis-on-Infinite-Earths-1985/Issue-7?id=39381

It's also the issue that supplied the backstory on both the AM and Monitor, and showed that they were both 2-A even in their normal forms. I need to read it again to see if they mentioned AM being substantially weaker than normal
 
The problem is that 2-B or 2-A seems like too much of an outlier, so updating the description while keeping the Low 2-C tier rating doesn't make sense, but I agree that restoring all future timelines via pure power alone should likely be a 2-B feat in itself.

PrinceOfTheMorning and Sandman31 are highly knowledgeable about DC and Marvel Comics, so it is useful to ask them what they think about this.

Matthew strongly disagrees though, so that is a problem regardless.
 
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