Pokemon Upgrade

[Peter1129]

Didn't somebody say the 1 MegaFoe calc wasn't evaluated and had some problems?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Idk who did, but pretty sure accepted OBD calcs already get past our verifications.

 

[Peter1129]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2886327#110
The result comes out to roughly 1 megafoe for the low end.

This was the 1 MegaFoe calc. It was on a thread and it was never evaluated.

 

[Peter1129]

Same feat in reverse to the best of my knowledge.
Also I should probably link Mogo the Living Planet as he has the general lighting calc.

Also you said you were going to link this calc as it was the general lighting up the universe calc.

 

[Peter1129]

Okay I think I finished updating all the profiles to 4-B. You guys can go check if there is anything wrong with them.

Also Cal you should probably link the Mogo calc onto Necrozma's profile until the other calc gets evaluated.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

For Zeraora, his loss to Sonic needs to be removed since that was when Zeraora was still 5-B.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

...So is this manga-only or are Ash, Kukui and Gladion all 4-B in the anime now?

Logic

• SM Pikachu has fought Tapu Koko, Zeraora, Guzzlord and Sivally (albeit badly damaged) at comparable levels and one-shot Mother Beast Lusamine with 10,000,000 Volts

• Lycanroc Dusk damaged Kukui's Incineroar, who matched Ash's Melmetal

• Torracat damaged and overwhelmed Kukui's Incineroar who matched Melmetal

• Rowlet took on Kukui's Braviary (which defeated Lycanroc) and Venusaur. A magazine scan (would have to track down) claims that all of Kukui's pokemon are likely as well-trained as his Incineroar

• Melmetal is 4-B and badly damaged Gladion's Sivally

• Naganadel fought and defeated Kukui's Lucario, who briefly went against Guzzlord and is also fighting Tapu Koko toe-to-toe in the next episode

• Pikachu's Gigavolt Havoc and Naganadel's Gigavolt Havoc combined was capable of completely overwhelming a Guzzlord in a beam struggle and blowing it away into an Ultra Wormhole

Thus, Ash is logically 4-B in late SM due to all of the scaling and feats presented against 4-Bs. This would also scale Anime Gladion (with his 4-B Sivally, Zoroark taking on Pikachu and Lycanroc Midnight taking on Lycanroc Dusk) as well as Kukui's entire team (due to Incineroar scaling to Melmetal, a scan claiming all of his team are as well-trained as Incineroar, his team scaling to Ash's team and him using Tapu Koko as his sixth member).

 

[Black_Hoopa]

Zygarde 10% and the scale of it should not also be 4-B?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Add to the list of "Ash scaling to 4-B" the entirety of SM144. Either the manga feats don't apply to the franchise as a whole or Ash should outright scale to Island Guardians, UBs and Zeraora.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im almost blatantly sure that should be taken to a thread of it's own. Not that its likely to be accepted, but we already have enough to deal with without adding Ash into this.

 

[Black_Hoopa]

https://********.org/chapter/724762/22 Zygarde cells took part of the damage of the Ultra Necrozma attack

 

[CryoTheMayo]

It probably should, but I'm too busy with exams to pay attention to debate.

I'll just leave my thoughts here:

• Anime and Manga shouldn't crossover as they are essentially separate canons

• Guardian of Alola is the combined energies of the entire region, and each Island Guardian is responsible for the protection of each island

• Pikachu and Naganadel both scale to Tapu Koko. Melmetal logically scales to around that (listed as a trump card in magazine scans, alongside Naganadel, against Kukui and is a Mythical). Torracat defeated Incineroar (who easily beat Melmetal, despite being weakened) and then evolved, growing much stronger. Lycanroc considerably damaged Incineroar. Rowlet defeated Braviary and took on Venusaur, Braviary scales to Lycanroc. There is also a scan that claims Kukui's entire team is as well-trained as his Incineroar.

• Each Island Guardian logically scales to High 6-C for defending each large island that comprises Alola. Ash's entire team scales to around an Island Guardian going all-out (Tapu Koko)

• 10,000,000 Volts Pikachu scales to Guardian of Alola, who is the combined energies of the entire region (not sure on how this scales tier-wise)

Overall, I suggest separating these manga feats from anime feats and scaling Ash to High 6-C due to his team all having feats of scaling to Tapu Koko + 10,000,000 Volts Pikachu scaling to Guardian of Alola.

If you were to keep the manga feats for the whole franchise...then you'd either have to dismiss the entire battle as a huge outlier or make SM Ash 4-B.

If anyone wants to make a thread for this debate, go ahead. I probably won't be available for it for the entire week though.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump. I do agree that he has a crapton of scaling to go by that's actually far more likely to produce 4-B scaling. However, The Games of Pokemon [Particularly Sun and Moon / USUM] has this problem as well. There are multitude on multitude of statements and feats putting the highest level champions as relative to the Ultra Beasts so I'd like to go into full detail:

• Sun / Moon defeated UBs throughout the later trials
• Defeated Gladion ... twice .. who wielded Sivally
• Considered to be a challenge by the Tapu Koko and at the end of the story who fought off the main UBs
• Fought off Lunala, Sogaleo, and Necrozma. None of these were battles you could catch them.
• Had to take on Super Necrozma. Again, not a battle in which you could catch them.
• Fought Kukui / Hau , the Champions are ltierally stated to be the only ones capable of fighting the stronger UBs and was stated to be the strongest trainer as of that point and beyond. A far weaker Hau could fight off the UBs Post-Story, and he's far weaker than the Protagonist.
• Everything in the Rainbow Rocket... Even fricking Lillie who based solely on her portrayal seems even stronger than Kukui.
• Defeated many Mystical Legendaries during and Post-Story
• Red was considered the strongest trainer period in the Battle Tree , and thusly should be immensely above Rematch Kukui [as the weakest members of the Tree are > Rematch Kukui] and those who wield UB - Level Pokemon

That's a massive revision [since It'd affect the Battle Tree participant, some CHampions, and the Protags] though so I'm unsure... But I'm willing to converse with people about the Games being revised someone is willing to let me be heard.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

We aren't separating manga and anime feats, at all. It's been accepted for quite a while now that all of the canons exist simuntaneously in the same Multiverse as being alternate universes, with there being no real canonicity to it.

Personally, I can see an argument for Ash being 4-B but it being an outlier is still also very possible.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

So that we don't get off of topic with this discussion I made the thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3628201