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The_real_cal_howard

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VS Battles
Retired
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I'm finally doing this because the profiles have been outdated as hell for too long. They need to be downgraded by now. The only one I have revised so far is Sabrina, which is a good basis for what profiles should look like. But let's move on.

Trainers themselves (games)
Probably needs a calc as it could be higher but 9-C. Lucas/Dawn (the trainers from G4) can hit a punching bag with enough force to have it go flying across a room and still have enough energy to knock over a stack of tires. Mind you they're only 10.

Trainers themselves (anime)
9-B from scaling to Ash. Durability and speed are up for debate.

Trainers themselves (manga)
Likely 9-B from scaling to Sapphire, who can pick up giant boulders and iirc uproot trees. Thing is, she's supposed to be dummy strong so I'm not sure if everyone scales. Again, durability and speed are up for debate.

Gym Leaders
Alright, from here on out we get to the difficult stuff, and Pokémon Masters is gonna throw a serious. Leaders have superior Pokémon than normal for obvious reasons, but there's still an echelon. The first Gym Leader should be 8-A. The second should be 7-B, upscaling from the Low 7-B feat and backscaling from the 7-A feats. After that it gets tricky. By gym 4 or 5 they should scale to the 7-A feats but I'm not sure about 3. All the way up to 8 should be "At least 7-A". But then we get to the rematch/PWT/Battle Tree Levels, where they're far higher.

Rivals
Other than Red, Blue, Wally, and Green, we have no idea what the teams for your rival because it's based on what you choose for your starter. However, we can make inferences. For example, we know Brendan started off with a Treeko, which means May has a Blaziken by endgame. Barry has an Empoleon in the anime so its likely he started off with it in the games. Pokemon Masters will help with that.

But more importantly, tiering. Just tier them by endgame, not by each individual encounter. It makes it easier. If they have it already like Red and Blue do, so be it, but let's not set a precedent. Just scale them to Champion level by endgame be their tier. Speaking of Champions...

Champions
Well, technically this encompasses both the Champions and the E4. They upscale to the point of likely breaking into the High 7-A range, with it without Megas. They're the cream of the crop after all. The Battle Frontier people are even superior.

Evil Leaders
They're anywhere from 8th gym leader level to Champion level. For example, Cyrus is canonically implied to be a threat to Cynthia. Not necessarily capable of winning (though Weavile is like the only Counter to Garchomp lol), but a threat nonetheless. Ghetsis is the final boss of B/W. Meanwhile Giovanni is the 8th gym leader, yet the RR episode implies he's superior to the former two.

Rematch Trainers
This is probably the trickiest bit. Rematch Trainers, which includes Kanto Leaders in G2, the PWT, and the Battle Tree are above even Champions, though not Rematch!Champions. Speaking of which, Cynthia confirms that all Champs are equal to one another, so we don't have to worry about that. Battle Tree Trainers are the strongest Trainers in the series, which would be G7 Red, Blue, Cynthia, Wally, Anabel, Grimsley, Colress, and a few others. The thing is, they have Megas and Z Moves, so they should be High 7-A+ with those Pokémon.

Hareta
Dude deserves a profile. Unironically 5-B human. Dude boxed Deoxys to a standstill.
 
I doubt the punching bag thing gets you anything very high, judging by how it just slides along on a raid. Other stuff seems fine besides Hareta, wouldn't some dude fighting deoxys to a standstill just be a massive low end for deoxys?
 
Hmmm...just when I thought there was nothing interesting going on today, you pull this.

Following and will wait for more input before I say 'yay' or 'nay' to anything.
 
Another couple feats for trainers include Brendan/May and Ethan/Kris/Lyra falling several stories with no damage whatsoever.
 
Falling several stories sounds like Street level at best. And even falling feats aren't really that impressive given even 10-B humans survive Street level falls with no injuries IRL.
 
PE=mgh

PE should be = KE at point of impact

Average Japanese weight is 150lb for males, about 68kg

Stories are apparently 4.3m, lets say "several" is 4

PE=(68)(9.8)(17.2)=11462.08J, I think that's 9-B?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Falling several stories sounds like Street level at best. And even falling feats aren't really that impressive given even 10-B humans survive Street level falls with no injuries IRL.
The human skeletal structure is tier 9, to be fair. A lot of it is also in how you land.
 
@Wokistan, I know that; and all humans do have 9-C bodyslaming/ramming attacks, but the traditional punch is only 10-B for most people.
 
I can't remember trainers ever getting into fistfights and such anyways
 
There have been calcs of falling several stories. Most land at street level+ Or lower. Street level+ is max
 
What's happening with rivals/trainers with legendaries? Gladion has a Silvally which can canonically fight Ultra Beasts, yet Kukui is treated as a stronger trainer. Ghetsis fights the player right after they defeated N, with Zekrom/Reshiram (and vice versa for N) and puts up a good fight. Similarly in BW2, he fights you right after you beat the respective fused kyurem.
 
Wokistan said:
PE=mgh

PE should be = KE at point of impact

Average Japanese weight is 150lb for males, about 68kg

Stories are apparently 4.3m, lets say "several" is 4

PE=(68)(9.8)(17.2)=11462.08J, I think that's 9-B?
That's Street Level+
 
Not to mention in USUM the Ultra Beasts are treated as something only a champion level pokemon trainer (or someone with the Tapus) can keep up with (besides Gladion because lol Sivally) . Not to mention the protagonist fights Ultra Beasts throughout the whole game so that wouldn't be an outlier,AND you have to fight Gladion with Sivally before you can even make it into the pokemon league...

Then we would have to deal with Sun/Moon Red as he's treated as rhe alpha/omega of the Ultra Sun/Moon Titles.
 
Actually, what about the durability of the trainers themselves? As some of them can tank attacks and/or train with their own Pokémon.
 
I think taking hits from their own Pokemon is often treated as PIS. At least for surviving hits from the ones that aren't baby Pokemon.
 
There are literally thousands of instances of Trainers and Humans being portrayed as comparable to their Pokémon in strength, durability, and speed.

No joke, there is even an entire episode that revolves around a Karate Master curbstomping every fighting-type Pokémon thrown his away.
 
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Kiyo

This guy.

His entire episode has him perform superhuman feats and makes it painfully clear he is a Pokémon-level dude.

  • He casually stops a charge from a super-pissed off Tauros.
  • He curbstomps a Tyrogue who one-shotted a trained Hitmonlee earlier in the episode.
  • He casually jumps hundreds of feet and one-shots Team Rocket's air balloon.
  • He and his Pokémon both perform superhuman exercises with the exact same speed and strength, and he then says all that is just his morning workout.
 
I mean, Ash stopped his Monferno while he was using Flame Wheel, and then he endure even more flames Strangely, his cloths were fine later
 
I'm also unsure what to do with May. Brendan canonically chose Treecko, as shown by Pokemon Masters and Generations. Which means May would've chosen Torchic, which is consistent with her anime depiction. However, official artwork shows her with Mudkip.
 
Okay I did some digging and apparently Rosa started with Snivy, which means Hugh has Emboar, Hilda started with Tepig, which means Cheren started with Oshawott while Bianca started with Snivy, Ethan started with Cyndaquil and Lyra has Chikorita which means Silver stole Totodile.

May is kinda difficult. She should have Torchic because Brendan has Treecko, but artwork has her with Mudkip. Same with Leaf (or Green). She has Squirtle with artwork but LGPE is a thing. My guess is that in-game showings and speculation have better credence than speculation from the figurines.

Edit: I'm stupid. There's no problem with Green. The only problem with her is if she should be named Green or Leaf on the profile, and if we should use Leaf's artwork or Green's artwork.
 
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