Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

[CloverDragon03]

Still not big on this fragmented form of revising these...

That aside, game final evos are 6-C via Abomasnow, not High 7-A

 

[koopa3144]

Still not big on this fragmented form of revising these...

That aside, game final evos are 6-C via Abomasnow, not High 7-A

Oh, I thought 6-C only scaled to final evos that appear in X and Y like the Abomasnow calc says.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Oh, I thought 6-C only scaled to final evos that appear in X and Y like the Abomasnow calc says.

Game versions of final evolved Pokemon in general, sorry if my wording wasn't clear

 

[koopa3144]

MASSIVE Pokémon profile revisions! (5 profile revisions!)

So I make some more Pokémon profile revisions, 3 starters and 2 others necessary for scaling. Charizard New profile Old profile Cubone New profile Old profile Greninja New profile Old profile Abomasnow New profile Old profile Decidueye New profile Old profile Yeah that's all ig- Agree...

vsbattles.com

 

[Ednaxel2]

Just a question, how do we know what pokemon is above what/which pokemon are comparable and which are not?

The profiles just kinda say this with no explanation, so what do we rank the Pokemon based on?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Just a question, how do we know what pokemon is above what/which pokemon are comparable and which are not?

The profiles just kinda say this with no explanation, so what do we rank the Pokemon based on?

Evolution stages

 

[Ednaxel2]

Evolution stages

So like Bulbasaur and Charmander and equal, and Venusaur and Charizard are equal

But what about Pokemon like Lucario who has only 2 evolutions?

 

[CloverDragon03]

So like Bulbasaur and Charmander and equal, and Venusaur and Charizard are equal

But what about Pokemon like Lucario who has only 2 evolutions?

It's treated case-by-case, essentially.

 

[Imaginym]

Apparently, the Pokemon Singapore Championships is tonight:



Starts in about a little under 3 hours & 20 minutes, at 3 UTC, IIRC.

Surprisingly, unlike the usual Pokemon VGC streams on Youtube, this one (currently, as I type this) has chat enabled.

 

[Imaginym]

Apparently, the Pokemon Singapore Championships is tonight:



Starts in about a little under 3 hours & 20 minutes, at 3 UTC, IIRC.

Surprisingly, unlike the usual Pokemon VGC streams on Youtube, this one (currently, as I type this) has chat enabled.

As of about 20 minutes ago, it has begun. Surprisingly late, but oh well. Maybe I miscalculated?

For now, it's just the commentators talking. I assume tech set up & stuff need to happen; Even at regular VGC Events, there can often be around 45 minutes before a match is shown on stream.

 

[Imaginym]

As of about 20 minutes ago, it has begun. Surprisingly late, but oh well. Maybe I miscalculated?

For now, it's just the commentators talking. I assume tech set up & stuff need to happen; Even at regular VGC Events, there can often be around 45 minutes before a match is shown on stream.

About 20 minutes ago from THIS post, they finally begun their 1st stream match. UI is also different from the usual. There was also a disconnect. I wonder what their tech support is doing.

 

[Imaginym]

Very interesting info on the in-game AI in Gen 1s, 2 & 3.
Note this info from the description:
Gen 1 AI Writeups https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gameboy/367023-pokemon-red-version/faqs/64175/ai

Pokémon Red/Blue/Yellow Trainer AI - Pokemon Speedruns

wiki.pokemonspeedruns.com

Gen 2 AI Writeups

Gen 3 AI Writeups
*This info is from the Emerald Kaizo romhack, but aside from changing some moves and adding others, the AI works as it does in the vanilla game for Gen 3.

AI Move Choice Analysis - Emerald Kaizo

docs.google.com

Move Choice AI Scoring

docs.google.com

Non-KO Switching

docs.google.com

Emerald AI Switching Logic

docs.google.com

(On a related note, I hate how YT truncates long urls, & turns all urls into redirects.)

 

[Imaginym]

Why can't GF just use a normal system?

Also, shoutouts to this old bug in Gen 7:

 

[Imaginym]

Apparently, the guy who took a Hyper Beam from Lance's Dragonite is a Black Belt -based on spriting- & he has an appearance in Pokemon Masters: Ex.

"A long time ago... when I was still a security guard for the gift shop... A frighteningly strong opponent... but it was because of that that I decided to reach the top! But I'm still scared of Hyper Beam!"

So uhhh, yeah? IIRC, games are canon to Masters, but Masters isn't canon to games.

Still, his sprite in HG/SS helps identify him as a Black Belt.

This'd suggest more humans scaling to Pokemon. Although, Black Belts often have the stronger physical feats among NPCs. The upper limits, I suppose?

The Masters Ex dialogue, for what it's worth, indicates that he found Lance/Lance's Dragonite "frighteningly strong" to the point that, although it did inspire him to train to be stronger, years later, he's still scared of the move that hit him.

 

[Imaginym]

List of Trainer's Eye Trainers - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

I took notice of this.
Some interesting sections from it:

Spoiler: Lots of text

Psychic Cameron

Route 123

Daze and confuse!

Ones with weird powers.

I can see through exactly what you're thinking!RSE I can see through everything you're thinking.ORAS

Telepathy feat?

Battle Girl Cyndy

Route 115

The first strike wins!

Speedy Fighting type.RSE Speedy Fighting types.ORAS

If my Pokémon lose, I'll carry on the fight!RSE If my Pokémon lose, I'll carry on the fight myself!ORAS

Human scaling to Pokemon? That or a desperation move; Just because you continue the fight doesn't mean you can do anything, let alone beat whatever beat your Pokemon.

Elite Four Drake

Ever Grande CityRSE Pokémon LeagueORAS

Harness strong abilities.RSE Harnessing the strongest stats.ORAS

The raw power of Dragons!RSE The latent power of Dragon types!ORAS

I dedicate myself to the Pokémon that saved me.RSE I battle every day to understand and be understood by my Pokémon.ORAS

Interesting how his dialogue changed with the remakes.

Elite Four Glacia

Ever Grande CityRSE Pokémon LeagueORAS

I use items for help.RSE I make use of items to assist in battle.ORAS

Flaming passion in icy cold.RSE Flaming passion in icy cold!ORAS

The Ice-type can be better trained in this hot land.RSE The Ice type can be trained to greater levels because of the heat here.ORAS

Ice-types have more potential if raised in hot lands? At least, that's what Glacia believes, but she also raises like, 2 or 3 Pokemon from Spheal's line, which can have Thick Fat. I wonder if it's true for Glalie & others...? "Push your limits to the extreme" & all that is what she means, right?

Triathlete Isaiah

Route 128

Exploit the environment!

All hail the Water type!

I won't be beaten by some beach bum Swimmer!RSE I won't be beaten by any beach-bum Swimmer!ORAS

Prideful much? Admittedly, sports are inherently competitive, but I do wonder if this implies he can outswim other swimmers. Or only just the ones that are lazy/"beach-bums"?

Psychic JackiRSE

Route 123

Battle at full power.

Pokémon of many mysteries.

When we spoke, I was really using telepathy.

Another apparent telepathy feat?

Old Couple John & Jay

Meteor Falls

Our love lets us prevail.

We've had them for years.

Married 50 years, we've devotedly raised Pokémon.RSE Married 50 years—we've had plenty of experience raising Pokémon together!ORAS

Shoutouts to that experience.

Ace Duo Jude & RoryORAS

Victory Road

We make an exquisite combination.

Anything is fine as long as it's strong.

Strongest combination? Right here!

Conceit? Or should we take them seriously with the "Strongest combination? Right here!". Are they just a lovey-dovey couple who think they're the strongest, or should we lend some credibility to the idea that they're the strongest, at least among Ace Trainer couples, lol?

Triathlete KatelynRSE

Route 128

All-out offensive!

Water Pokémon rule!

I must swim over 6 miles every day.

(Originally 10 km. Likely just converted to 6 miles for localization because USA uses Imperial rather than metric. Stamina feat?)

Leader Tate&LizaRS Mystic Duo Tate&LizaE Leader Liza & TateORAS

Mossdeep City

We battle in cooperation.RSE We battle in cooperation!ORAS

Always friendly Pokémon.RSE Pokémon that are always friendly!ORAS

We understand each other, and we understand others.RS Papa has trouble telling the two of us apart!E We can read each others' minds—and the minds of our opponents, too.ORAS

Their "Favorite Pokémon" section (The 2nd section) presents some interesting implications about their teams.... Also, more telepathy feats. Oh & apparently even their own dad has trouble telling them apart.

Fairy Tale Girl MomoORAS

Mt. Pyre

I leave that up to my Pokémon.

Fairy types, I guess.

I love Pokémon. It's people I'm no good with.

A Fairy Tale Girl Class Trainer who, for her "strategy" section, says "I leave that up to my Pokémon.". Interesting behavioural note.

Ace Trainer NevilleORAS

Route 108

I just let myself go with the flow.

Pokémon that know Surf.

I'm a Trainer who likes to splash about drifting in the troughs between waves.

He's found on Route 108, which is practically all water, & this guy likes "drifting in the troughs between waves", & Pokemon that know Surf. Swimming Stamina feat?

Black Belt Nob

Route 115

Grand slam pummeling!

Fighting type.RSE Fighting types.ORAS

Not to brag, but I can bust ten roof tiles!RSE Not to brag, but I can bust through 10 bricks with my fists!ORAS

Another AP/Striking Strength for Pokemon World humans. (GSC Chuck & that 1 Black Belt that can break boulders may be better, though.)

Leader NormanRSORAS Reliable One DadE

Petalburg City

I flexibly adapt my style.

Grown in a balanced manner.RSE Those grown in a balanced manner.ORAS

Pokémon are my life. My chosen path is harsh...RS I walk the 30 minutes from home to here every day.E I've chosen to dedicate my life to Pokémon, but the road is hard...ORAS

Apparently, Petalburg to Littleroot is a 30 minute walk in Emerald?

Elite Four Phoebe

Ever Grande CityRSE Pokémon LeagueORAS

Confuse and confound.RSE Confuse and confound opponents.ORAS

There's nothing definite.RSE It's hard to pin them down.ORAS

I wonder how my grandma at Mt. Pyre is doing?RSE I wonder how my grandma is doing at Mt. Pyre.ORAS

Weird "Favorite Pokémon" section, considering her team is clearly specialized in/focused on Ghost types.

Ace Trainer PortiaORAS

Route 109

A stable kind of battling.

Large Pokémon that I can ride on.

I get "surfsick" real easy, but even when feeling bad, I'm not too shabby.

Good Stamina/Intelligence feat, I guess? Or just confident.

Sis and Bro Rita & SamRS Sis and Bro Lila & RoyE Sis & Bro Rita & SamORAS

Route 124

We split our duties.RSE We each take a different role!ORAS

We like friendly Pokémon.RSE We like friendly Pokémon!ORAS

We enjoy Pokémon together as sister and brother.RSE We enjoy our Pokémon together as siblings!ORAS

Their names were Rita & Sam in Ruby & Sapphire, then changed to "Lila & Roy" in Emerald, then changed back to "Rita & Sam" for OR/AS.

Elite Four Sidney

Ever Grande CityRSE Pokémon LeagueORAS

Offense over defense!RSE The best defense is a good offense!ORAS

The Dark side's beauties.RSE The aesthetics of the Dark side!ORAS

They said I was a punk, but I'm one of the Elite Four!RSE You can talk all you want—all that matters is how strong I am, right?ORAS

Behavioural info.

PokéManiac SteveRSE Poké Maniac SteveORAS

Route 114

Wrestle down with power.RSE I'll pin you down with power...ORAS

Took all night to catch.RSE It took me all night to catch it...ORAS

Big, burly, and buff Pokémon are the best...RSE Big, burly, and buff Pokémon are the best for me...ORAS

It took him "all night" to catch his Pokemon, eh?
It's apparently an Aron. Route 114 is right outside Meteor Falls, but Aron is normally found in Granite Cave near Dewford Town, relatively far away. Did Steve catch it a while ago? Either way, if it took "all night", is that a credit to the human or the Pokemon? At least Aron, despite being only 40 cm, is 60 kg, so it kinda fits the "burly & buff" part, even if not the "big" part.

Champion StevenRSORAS Hard as Rock StevenE

UnknownRSE Pokémon LeagueORAS

Pick on the foe's weakness.RS Attack the weak points!E Strike enemies where they're weakest!ORAS

The ultimate Steel Pokémon.RS Ultimate Steel Pokémon.E The ultimate Steel-type Pokémon.ORAS

When it comes down to it, I'm still the strongest!RS I'm the strongest and most energetic after all!E When it comes down to it, I'm just the strongest there is right now.ORAS

Neat behavioural info.

Hex Maniac Valerie

Mt. Pyre

Slow, steady suffering.

Scary to meet at night.RSE Ones you'd be afraid to meet at night.ORAS

I see things that others can't see...RSE I see things that no one else seems to see...ORAS

if we take that quote seriously, Extrasensory Perception?

Rich Boy Winston

Route 104

Strategy? Who needs it?

I spent big money on it!RSE I've spent tons of money on training it!ORAS

I, being rich, sleep in a custom Pokémon bed.RSE Rich me sleeps in a bed of Pokémon.ORAS

Why did the remake make it sound like he uses his living Pokemon for his bed instead of just a bed designed around Pokemon?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Are the FRLG League rematches considered canon or useable for scaling? Because if so then Clair, the Johto League and potentially that Black Belt all maybe have High 6-A scaling from Mewtwo. A nameless Black Belt being Mewtwo level seems pretty silly though, especially if we go with the assumption that his strength should equal his durability.

 

[Imaginym]

Are the FRLG League rematches considered canon or useable for scaling? Because if so then Clair, the Johto League and potentially that Black Belt all maybe have High 6-A scaling from Mewtwo. A nameless Black Belt being Mewtwo level seems pretty silly though, especially if we go with the assumption that his strength should equal his durability.

Unsure.
In theory, that Black Belt could just be called an outlier. The only known history he has after it, aside from fleeing after the attack, is in something not canon to the main games.

IDK if the Elite Four are equal to Legendaries. Might be a topic worth more discussion.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

In theory, that Black Belt could just be called an outlier. The only known history he has after it, aside from fleeing after the attack, is in something not canon to the main games.

That might be for the best tbh.

IDK if the Elite Four are equal to Legendaries. Might be a topic worth more discussion.

I believe they’d still be scaling to the Tower Duo due to HGSS (Which might be another reason why we should ignore the Hyper Beam moment lol).

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Question, how do the balms in Legends Arceus work? Their purpose is to calm down the frenzying bosses, however they’re also used against Arceus itself which obviously isn’t berserk or anything. Also when you deplete its “HP” the battle just kinda ends. Is Arceus just arbitrarily deciding to stop at a certain point or something?

 

[XitSign]

Question, how do the balms in Legends Arceus work? Their purpose is to calm down the frenzying bosses, however they’re also used against Arceus itself which obviously isn’t berserk or anything. Also when you deplete its “HP” the battle just kinda ends. Is Arceus just arbitrarily deciding to stop at a certain point or something?

The Balms in the Arceus fight are probably it's way of giving you a 'weapon' based on your experiences in the adventure, and it's giving you a final challenge. It ends the fight by more or less giving you a pat on the back and saying 'good job', so seemingly all of it was arranged by Arceus to give you a chance to 'win'.