• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

Checking for a type immunity, AKA, a multiplier of 0, otherwise, trigger as normal.

& nonetheless this doesn't seem to me like strong evidence of a connection to immunities.

I think other basises are needed.
Yeah, but it's not just multiplying damage taken by half, it triggers a not very effective flag, which is notable as this is different from stuff like Multiscale on not being mitigable by hitting a weakness. This is just supporting evidence anyways.

Interesting. I think we would need to check with other timeline evidence however, to see if it is plausible someone of the S/V player character's apparent age could be reincarnated in the time between those, though.
In the event of a possible contradiction from such, it may be worth noting that Pokemon has a variety of weird NPCs.
The timeline appears to get rather blurry in terms of time passed since Gen 7, and there's also some inconsistencies regardless, so this may depend on how we approach that and alternate timelines as well. In any case it'd be worth reminding that the Gen 9 main character is the one responding to the weird claims themselves with a specific region name, in particular nothing about Hisui is directly brought up elsewhere IIRC.

But they still design Tera Raids & promote online competitions, including timed event 7 Star Raid Battles. To say there isn't a designed meta for this is silly.
Plus, many rare, often Legendary or Mythical Pokemon have been featured in Raids, IIRC.
That wasn't what I meant to say, I meant on this translating to Arceus being able to Terastallize or not has no major impact on the metagames the developers care about.

They also haven't restricted Terastallization for almost any Pokemon.
Which further adds to the point as it's trivial to do, if there wasn't an intent on Multitype having less priority than a Terastallized type, that'd have been the case already.

The idea that Arceus & Tera Stellar have a connection because it's good specifically in Tera Raids, when Tera Stellar was designed for Tera Raids seems like weak evidence to me.
Yeah, it's just supporting evidence as well.

You suspect they scrapped a 2nd regional gimmick for Paldea?
Oh no, that was regarding the "what were they cooking?" bit.

Perhaps? Dendra says it in the context of a class, which has courses focused on Tera Raids; As a series of large tutorials, or very similar, I could believe game mechanics being involved in explaining this aspect.

Though, it not being game mechanics might mean that Tera Raid Pokemon are prone to patterned, specific sets of actions, no?
Probably, it's not like the normal actions (selecting moves at random) is much better in any case.

Well if it's not anything supernatural nor persuasiveness, that gives the unfortunate implication that trainers in Tera Raids are easily dismayed by Tera Shields.
Perhaps plausible, but a little disappointing, I suppose, no?
Considering that it's also stated around that most trainers don't get more than about 4 badges that doesn't sound too extraordinary either.
 
Yeah, but it's not just multiplying damage taken by half, it triggers a not very effective flag, which is notable as this is different from stuff like Multiscale on not being mitigable by hitting a weakness. This is just supporting evidence anyways.
To its credit, it does achieve the same end through a different means in the code, but yes, I'd call it supporting evidence at most.
I think something more overt than how the game's code that players usually aren't meant to see is necessary. Lore is typically presented to an audience.
The timeline appears to get rather blurry in terms of time passed since Gen 7, and there's also some inconsistencies regardless, so this may depend on how we approach that and alternate timelines as well. In any case it'd be worth reminding that the Gen 9 main character is the one responding to the weird claims themselves with a specific region name, in particular nothing about Hisui is directly brought up elsewhere.
I see. (Though, I forget if PL:A can be connected to games besides S/V. Plus, S/V was the only one released after it so far, right?)
That wasn't what I meant to say, I meant on this translating to Arceus being able to Terastallize or not has no major impact on the metagames the developers care about.
I would assume they care about Tera Raid Battles considering how many special ones they did.
Also, you had said "there's the matter of Tera Stellar Arceus being really good for Tera Raids in general, so I don't think this was done by accident."
Are(n't) you advocating for Tera Stellar Arceus being good in Tera Raids relevant to a lore connection between Arceus & Terastallization?
What are you advocating for, if you'll forgive my asking?
Which further adds to the point as it's trivial to do, if there wasn't an intent on Multitype having less priority than a Terastallized type, that'd have been the case already.
So do you think that if Arceus wanted to overwrite its Terastallized type with Multitype, it could not, because... all Pokemon (With 1 exception for a gimmick.) can Terastallize?
Did Arceus not create the types?
Oh no, that was regarding the "what were they cooking?" bit.
Ah.
Probably, it's not like the normal actions (selecting moves at random) is much better in any case.
But Pokemon acting at random isn't how we usually assume their behaviour; We have intelligence sections, feats & behaviour to go off of.
Hence my concern about Dendra's statement & patterned actions of Tera Raid mons, you know?
Considering that it's also stated around that most trainers don't get more than about 4 badges that doesn't sound too extraordinary either.
It is?
(Incidentally, this reminds me that I'm hoping we can soon discuss the, IMHO, messy scaling chain to untangle regarding Tera Raid scaling.)
 
To its credit, it does achieve the same end through a different means in the code, but yes, I'd call it supporting evidence at most.
I think something more overt than how the game's code that players usually aren't meant to see is necessary. Lore is typically presented to an audience.
Well, the mechanics can be seen first-hand indepenendly of the code by testing it, in particular this has an impact on a recent official competitive format as it enabled Terapagos into a reliable answer to Shadow Rider Calyrex.

I see. (Though, I forget if PL:A can be connected to games besides S/V. Plus, S/V was the only one released after it so far, right?)
Currently, yeah, there's no other manline game released after PLA than SV.

I would assume they care about Tera Raid Battles considering how many special ones they did.
Also, you had said "there's the matter of Tera Stellar Arceus being really good for Tera Raids in general, so I don't think this was done by accident."
Are(n't) you advocating for Tera Stellar Arceus being good in Tera Raids relevant to a lore connection between Arceus & Terastallization?
What are you advocating for, if you'll forgive my asking?
That's more so to encourage players to keep playing every now and then, which is also part of why there's Mystery Gift events as well as changes of rules for official competitive formats every now and then, this is common for games with post-release content these days.

What I'm advocating for is Tera Stellar Arceus being a cheap way to adapt to most Tera Raids supporting on the existence of a Terastallized Arceus not being an ignorable thing from the development side of things, thus if there was a desire to more accurately prevent it from Terastallizing it'd be the case.

So do you think that if Arceus wanted to overwrite its Terastallized type with Multitype, it could not, because... all Pokemon (With 1 exception for a gimmick.) can Terastallize?
Did Arceus not create the types?
We have yet to see Arceus overriding a Terastallized type change to itself with Multitype in the first place. In particular Multitype doesn't protect from other methods of changing type such as Soak, while Terastallizing does. Creating something does not inherently include having better control over it for a particular purpose.

But Pokemon acting at random isn't how we usually assume their behaviour; We have intelligence sections, feats & behaviour to go off of.
Hence my concern about Dendra's statement & patterned actions of Tera Raid mons, you know?
Oh, I meant that from the game mechanics side, sorry for going on a tangent. Frankly I don't think this stuff is of much use as it's simply vague as said before.

It is?
(Incidentally, this reminds me that I'm hoping we can soon discuss the, IMHO, messy scaling chain to untangle regarding Tera Raid scaling.)
Yeah, I don't recall where exactly as it's not a cutscene per-say, however.

As for the scaling, I presume you mean the way to scale Gen 9 characters involving paradoxes scaling to Champions, then Nemona (a Champion) scaling to Red by fighting each other in Masters, who basically has a scaling chain leading to Cyrus, thus 2-B paradoxes, Gen 9 legendaries and so on.
 
Last edited:
Well, the mechanics can be seen first-hand indepenendly of the code by testing it, in particular this has an impact on a recent official competitive format as it enabled Terapagos into a reliable answer to Shadow Rider Calyrex.
Indeed, although as is, I feel like there needs to be something establishing the immunity nearness stuff for Tera Shell as more than "mechanics", & something in lore would be nice.
& you know that GF is big on making their mons VGC viable.
That's more so to encourage players to keep playing every now and then, which is also part of why there's Mystery Gift events as well as changes of rules for official competitive formats every now and then, this is common for games with post-release content these days.

What I'm advocating for is Tera Stellar Arceus being a cheap way to adapt to most Tera Raids supporting on the existence of a Terastallized Arceus not being an ignorable thing from the development side of things, thus if there was a desire to more accurately prevent it from Terastallizing it'd be the case.
I think they didn't prevent Arceus from Terastallizing not because they're trying to establish lore or anything, but to support raids & because all Pokemon can Terastallize regardless.
Arceus presumably can Terastallize in lore. IDK why it wouldn't be able to.
We have yet to see Arceus overriding a Terastallized type change to itself with Multitype in the first place. In particular Multitype doesn't protect from other methods of changing type such as Soak, while Terastallizing does. Creating something does not inherently include having better control over it for a particular purpose.
Does Arceus not have other type control feats, like granting the powers of the types through the plates?
I'd wanna hear the opinions of others on this matter.
Oh, I meant that from the game mechanics side, sorry for going on a tangent. Frankly I don't think this stuff is of much use as it's simply vague as said before.
I guess we'll tackle the behaviour of Tera Raid Pokemon later?
for the scaling, I presume you mean the way to scale Gen 9 characters involving paradoxes scaling to Champions, then Nemora (a Champion) scaling to Red by fighting each other in Masters, who basically has a scaling chain leading to Cyrus, thus 2-B paradoxes, Gen 9 legendaries and so on.
IIRC, there was supposed to be an interview quote about Masters was supposed to have the games be canon to it, but not Masters canon to the game.
& in this case, besides, not sure I personally, care for it, since it seems to mostly just turn a consistently tiered scaling chain into one that goes to 2-B by cross-continuity scaling, & to a mobile game no less.

Anyway, quoting an old post of mine:



Jacq says that, thanks to protagonist, "our" (who's?) investigation, & their new data says Terastal energy is released from the Great Crater of Paldea "from time to time", which affects Tera Crystals - Tera Crystals hit by "especially strong blasts" of this energy become "black crystals". Tera Pokemon found at black crystals are "incredibly powerful", Jacq emphasizing such with "So much so that average Trainers wouldn’t stand a chance against them." & urging the protagonist not to take them on, even if they do find the location on their map app.

After the player completes one, Jacq calls & says "We just saw the Terastal energy reading from one of the black crystals disappear a moment ago. Do you know anything about that?!"
Jacq is surprised the protagonist succeeded, & says, among other things:
"Your efforts have helped us come to understand the laws governing Terastal energy emissions."
"Still, even after all this, it seems that the amount of energy being emitted is slowly growing."
"That means we may continue to see more black crystals appear in the future."


His quotes page may be useful here:

Put another way:

You need to see the credits to participate in 5 Star Raids. Meaning become Champion. AFAIK, that means clearing The Way Home; Beat the AI Professor.
Beat 15 5-Star Raids, & he warns the player character about 6-Star Raids, asserting that "You're anything but average, but I'm afraid this is too dangerous—even for you, <player>.".
Beat a 6 Star Raid, Jacq is shocked, glad protagonist is okay, & urges them to be careful, even saying "Ah, by the way, Director Clavell will be madder than a rampaging Primeape if he finds out, so let's keep this between us two!".

It's clear that even for Post-Champion-Rank trainers, 5 star raids are dangerous, & 6 even more so, such that a student apparently can't normally be permited to attempt them.
To say nothing of what that implies for 7 Star Raids.

Still, if nothing else, Tera Raid Pokemon can take on 4 at once, & are grouped by level, though I'm unsure if the levels are meant to be known.
But 1 5 Star Tera Raid Pokemon being equivalent to 4 Champion Rank Pokemon, a 6 Star Tera Raid Pokemon being superior, etc.


& that's just in the base game; The Academy Ace Tournament implies the Pokemon get stronger, at least through dialogue & Pokemon levels.

Which brings up the question of how much stronger they are; For example, Nemona's Pokemon team are implied to be stronger for the tournament; Does this apply for her Mochi Mayhem battle? The Blueberry Academy Battle?
Levels & dialogue suggest it, no?

It will also help to figure out Area Zero Scaling, since these at-the-time, near Champion Rank Trainers return & fight Paradox Pokemon, then later, a different group -Impleid to be stronger, because Blueberry Academy & power progression- goes down & battle Tera Stellar Pokemon.

The Paradox Pokemon are concerning because that might be a basis for scaling a whole subgroup. IMHO, it's our best bet, since they're fairly direct showing.
(Also, Glimmora, but it was early into Area Zero. Maybe on that level of power but lower?)
 
It will also help to figure out Area Zero Scaling, since these at-the-time, near Champion Rank Trainers return & fight Paradox Pokemon, then later, a different group -Impleid to be stronger, because Blueberry Academy & power progression- goes down & battle Tera Stellar Pokemon.
Two are Champions. The thing is the Quaking Earth Titans exists.
 
It's also probably noteworthy to bring up the Starmobiles when talking the Quaking Earth Titans. Starmobiles as straight up called 'Revavroom' durring the swap, and the flashbacks mention that Charcadets weren't strong enough as a power source, so Mela evolved them to increase power, meaning they're functionally a fully evolved Pokemon with other fully evo'd mons acting as batteries, yet fighting one is implied to be one of your character's earliest tasks
 
Indeed, although as is, I feel like there needs to be something establishing the immunity nearness stuff for Tera Shell as more than "mechanics", & something in lore would be nice.
& you know that GF is big on making their mons VGC viable.
Well, the point was more so to back up the correlation of potency between Terastallizing and Terapagos itself, given that the phenomena explicitly came from it, so it's basic scaling on that regard.

I think they didn't prevent Arceus from Terastallizing not because they're trying to establish lore or anything, but to support raids & because all Pokemon can Terastallize regardless.
Arceus presumably can Terastallize in lore. IDK why it wouldn't be able to.
Well, the fact that Terastallizing has more priority than Multitype does go back to my point of being more than a mundane type change to scale like this.

Does Arceus not have other type control feats, like granting the powers of the types through the plates?
I'd wanna hear the opinions of others on this matter.
Looking around no, what you've said is about it, and I'm still not a fan of granting Arceus all the powers in the verse out of sheer contradictions, especially if we go back to nearly everything being usable canon-wise.

I guess we'll tackle the behaviour of Tera Raid Pokemon later?
Depends most likely on when @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera is willing to continue the staff approval for that stuff, or if he'd be willing to pass this to someone else (most likely me as the verse is rather inactive indexing-wise).

After the player completes one, Jacq calls & says "We just saw the Terastal energy reading from one of the black crystals disappear a moment ago. Do you know anything about that?!"
Jacq is surprised the protagonist succeeded, & says, among other things:
"Your efforts have helped us come to understand the laws governing Terastal energy emissions."
"Still, even after all this, it seems that the amount of energy being emitted is slowly growing."
"That means we may continue to see more black crystals appear in the future."


His quotes page may be useful here:

Put another way:

You need to see the credits to participate in 5 Star Raids. Meaning become Champion. AFAIK, that means clearing The Way Home; Beat the AI Professor.
Beat 15 5-Star Raids, & he warns the player character about 6-Star Raids, asserting that "You're anything but average, but I'm afraid this is too dangerous—even for you, <player>.".
Beat a 6 Star Raid, Jacq is shocked, glad protagonist is okay, & urges them to be careful, even saying "Ah, by the way, Director Clavell will be madder than a rampaging Primeape if he finds out, so let's keep this between us two!".

It's clear that even for Post-Champion-Rank trainers, 5 star raids are dangerous, & 6 even more so, such that a student apparently can't normally be permited to attempt them.
To say nothing of what that implies for 7 Star Raids.

Still, if nothing else, Tera Raid Pokemon can take on 4 at once, & are grouped by level, though I'm unsure if the levels are meant to be known.
But 1 5 Star Tera Raid Pokemon being equivalent to 4 Champion Rank Pokemon, a 6 Star Tera Raid Pokemon being superior, etc.


& that's just in the base game; The Academy Ace Tournament implies the Pokemon get stronger, at least through dialogue & Pokemon levels.

Which brings up the question of how much stronger they are; For example, Nemona's Pokemon team are implied to be stronger for the tournament; Does this apply for her Mochi Mayhem battle? The Blueberry Academy Battle?
Levels & dialogue suggest it, no?

It will also help to figure out Area Zero Scaling, since these at-the-time, near Champion Rank Trainers return & fight Paradox Pokemon, then later, a different group -Impleid to be stronger, because Blueberry Academy & power progression- goes down & battle Tera Stellar Pokemon.

The Paradox Pokemon are concerning because that might be a basis for scaling a whole subgroup. IMHO, it's our best bet, since they're fairly direct showing.
(Also, Glimmora, but it was early into Area Zero. Maybe on that level of power but lower?)
IIRC the trainers do get even stronger after the Blueberry Academy stuff, as they all update their teams, and this also extends to what they use in the Academy Ace Tournament, also, there was a Tera Raid Battle event involving Dialga and Palkia, so that's some food for thought.
 
I haven't checked the YT links in it, but I appreciate the thoroughness of sourcing in it.

However, I'm wondering why. Is it meant to be foundational for some kind of "Certain level Psychics can use all X powers" or such?
That’s pretty much it, though most Psychics other than main cast members are at an unknown level in their abilities.
 
Are you asleep? Are you sleepy? Are you prepared?!

The 2024 Pokemon World Championships begins TODAY!

(On my end, it's almost 9:45, & YT says it begins at 2:30 PM, yet says "Live in 4 hours", so IDK if it's some daylight savings time or an early start scheduled or what.)
(Also, matches often have set-up time between them, so 2:30 is not exact if you're uninterested in the casters chatting & other stuff being shown there.)

Anyway, point is....

IN AROUND 5 HOURS, MORE OR LESS, THE 2024 POKEMON WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS BEGIN!!!

Watch here, on YT, where you can rewind, as well as speed up:



Or watch on Twitch, which, unllike YT, has a chat enabled (Which you can also pop out into a new window if you want.):



This is also the last tournament before August 31st, 2024.... Where Regulation H begins! The 2024 World Championship is the last tournament of Regulation G!
(At least, for 2024, anyway.)


Regulation H, notably, will not only not allow any Mythicals, but will not allow any Legendaries, nor even Paradox Pokemon!
(& on January 6th, 2025, Regulation G resumes.)


Thoughts, all?
Are you hyped for the tournament? Are you rested well? Are you feeling anything about the news for the 2024 Season?
 
After nearly an hour of being live, & if I heard right, Pokemon CEO & President said during the opening ceremonies, something like:
"Stay tuned for special news for our Pokemon Games on Sunday."
 

Ditto matchup help
 
Bad news everyone....

There was no Pokemon Legends: Z-A Announcement at the Pokemon 2024 World Championships Closing Ceremonies....
That means we must endure more waiting....

Good news everyone!

There was no Pokemon Legends: Z-A Announcement at the Pokemon 2024 World Championships Closing Ceremonies....
That means Pokemon Legends: Z-A is less likely to be a rushed mess....


As for what news we got, it was about:
Pokemon GO is going to get "something big" & also Morpeko which switches forms when using charged attacks.

Pokemon Pocket: A mobile only, digital only card game pack opening simulator we already knew about. It also said coming October 30th, & to "pre-order" now, which some think is either a mistake, or indicating it'll be a paid app....

Armarouge, Ceruledge, Darkrai & Psyduck got an animated advertisement to promote them coming to Pokemon Unite.

We're getting a Trainer's Pokemon Trading Card Game set. It had an animated ad & implied it's going to be full of lots of named trainers' Pokemon.
 
Last edited:
Bad news everyone....

There was no Pokemon Legends: Z-A Announcement at the Pokemon 2024 World Championships Closing Ceremonies....
That means we must endure more waiting....

Good news everyone!

There was no Pokemon Legends: Z-A Announcement at the Pokemon 2024 World Championships Closing Ceremonies....
That means Pokemon Legends: Z-A is less likely to be a rushed mess....


As for what news we got, it was about:
Pokemon GO is going to get "something big" & also Morpeko which switches forms when using charged attacks.

Pokemon Pocket: A mobile only, digital only card game pack opening simulator we already knew about. It also said coming October 30th, & to "pre-order" now, which some think is either a mistake, or indicating it'll be a paid app....

Armarouge, Ceruledge, Darkrai & Psyduck got an animated advertisement to promote them coming to Pokemon Unite.

We're getting a Trainer's Pokemon set. It had an animated ad & implied it's going to be full of lots of named trainer's Pokemon.
 


For those unable to check the link (No offense meant.), here's a copy-paste of the text:
"Join us tomorrow, August 19 at 3pm PT, for a tour of the Nintendo Museum that’s scheduled to open during the fall of 2024 in Kyoto, Japan! The Nintendo Museum Direct livestream will last roughly 10 minutes. #NintendoDirectWatch here: https://ninten.do/6015lvBvh"

From a follow-up Tweet, less than a minute later: "Please note that there will be no game announcements or mention of the Nintendo Switch successor during this presentation."

A-All news is good news, right?
At least this way, we won't have to worry about them getting our hopes up for something, right?

But seriously, I can't imagine this as anything more than a glorified ad for a tourist trap & merchandise store, as well as just an intellectual property bragging zone.

Also, as a Pokemon fan, this after Worlds 2024 lead with an announcement on Friday of news in its Closing Ceremonies on Sunday... & the news was just TCG stuff, mobile games & Pokemon Pocket (Mobile pack opening simulator).... Is Nintendo trying to one-up TPCi in disappointment? I have a heard controversy sells & stuf....

Also, wow I just realized I'm late to this news; The Museum Tour "Direct" is at 3 PM PT, & 3 PM PT is in just over 3 hours from now!
 
Back
Top