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How funny that God himself has to come to bring us a game that is not a rehash of the heavily inspired in the original R/B games.
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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc
- Thread starter SuperKamiNappa
- Start date
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My mistake. Though I do worry disappointment is possible, I feel I understand you. Warcraft 3 situations (IIRC, when they made a new but worse version, they made the old one unplayable. But, not all stuff is online, of course.) are rare, & even how Sw/Sh restricted the Pokedex & moves only affected transferring Pokemon forward.
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Anyway, I just finished watching the Pokemon Presents. Was very interesting.
Ilca developing the Gen 4 remakes concerns me. When how Pokemon itself presents them is by highlighting that they made... Pokemon Home?! ....Well, it feels like dooming them by faint praise, & makes me question if they're up to the task of even doing a remake of a full RPG.
The Chibi artstyle makes me think there'll be a lack of trainer customization, but the battles don't use the chibi artstyle, & attack animations being played with Pokemon on both sides & no trainer visible on one side makes me hope/assume we'll at least have a proper battle system, unlike Let's Go, so that's some consolation.
With the Gen 4 remakes, & Pokemon Legends Arceus being set in the past (Plus, the Mythical Pokemon that's the focus.), I wonder if we'll hit any continuity snags.
Between pre-release content being unusable, embargos on spoilers at release, & possible delays, with the Gen 4 remakes being announced for Late 2021....
I imagine we won't be able to do any revisions based on those games until early to mid 2022. What a torturous year of waiting this will be.
Hopefully we nonetheless document information as it comes (Blogs, discussions, etc.), nonetheless.
We are allowed to post about leaked content in some capacity, right?
What does have me excited, though, is New Pokemon Snap has a "Photodex", & from what we've seen in the trailer, there are entries like in the Pokedex! Notably, the one we saw is not a repeat of any previous Pokedex entries!
So New Pokemon Snap could actually be a big potential source of lore in the near future! : D (Well, as "near" as you consider April 30th to be....)
Ilca developing the Gen 4 remakes concerns me. When how Pokemon itself presents them is by highlighting that they made... Pokemon Home?! ....Well, it feels like dooming them by faint praise, & makes me question if they're up to the task of even doing a remake of a full RPG.
The Chibi artstyle makes me think there'll be a lack of trainer customization, but the battles don't use the chibi artstyle, & attack animations being played with Pokemon on both sides & no trainer visible on one side makes me hope/assume we'll at least have a proper battle system, unlike Let's Go, so that's some consolation.
With the Gen 4 remakes, & Pokemon Legends Arceus being set in the past (Plus, the Mythical Pokemon that's the focus.), I wonder if we'll hit any continuity snags.
Between pre-release content being unusable, embargos on spoilers at release, & possible delays, with the Gen 4 remakes being announced for Late 2021....
I imagine we won't be able to do any revisions based on those games until early to mid 2022. What a torturous year of waiting this will be.
Hopefully we nonetheless document information as it comes (Blogs, discussions, etc.), nonetheless.
We are allowed to post about leaked content in some capacity, right?
What does have me excited, though, is New Pokemon Snap has a "Photodex", & from what we've seen in the trailer, there are entries like in the Pokedex! Notably, the one we saw is not a repeat of any previous Pokedex entries!
So New Pokemon Snap could actually be a big potential source of lore in the near future! : D (Well, as "near" as you consider April 30th to be....)
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Looking into them....
viridianforest.com
"The name is a stylized spelling of iruka, Japanese for dolphin. It stands for I Love Computer Art."
"Founded in 2010, ILCA specializes in real-time CG rendering, game development and concept art design. They act as a support studio for other developers. They’ve worked on some high profile games like Ace Combat 7: Skies Unknown, Code Vien, Dragon Quest XI and even NieR: Automata.,"
Also, I worry about Pokemon Legends: Arceus's impact on the public, for communities like ours; It looks like there will be no transition between the overworld & battles.
Thus, people will have reason to put Pokemon feats & ratings into question. Whether they're right or not, it could cause a fair bit of problems. It'll be like the anime, where Pokemon often don't show feats on the levels we have them at.
Except it will be from a game that arguably feels like a mainline game, & considering the trailer had a line about "crafting the first Pokedex" (Potential continuity snags aside, depending on what they document.), so those concerns might seem harder to dismiss.
A game set in the past might also not deliver too much exciting lore; Not as many legends & stories, Pokemon abilities won't be as well-documented, so we might not get as much out of it.
Pardon me & all my rambling, please.
As you can imagine, the recent news has me a little... restless, I suppose? It's mixed feelings, good & bad, for better or for worse.
ILCA Games: A Look at Studio Remaking Diamond and Pearl
Who is the ILCA games studio? GAMEFREAK surprised a lot of us during the 25th Anniversary Pokémon Presents when they announced the remakes for the fourth ...
viridianforest.com
"Founded in 2010, ILCA specializes in real-time CG rendering, game development and concept art design. They act as a support studio for other developers. They’ve worked on some high profile games like Ace Combat 7: Skies Unknown, Code Vien, Dragon Quest XI and even NieR: Automata.,"
Also, I worry about Pokemon Legends: Arceus's impact on the public, for communities like ours; It looks like there will be no transition between the overworld & battles.
Thus, people will have reason to put Pokemon feats & ratings into question. Whether they're right or not, it could cause a fair bit of problems. It'll be like the anime, where Pokemon often don't show feats on the levels we have them at.
Except it will be from a game that arguably feels like a mainline game, & considering the trailer had a line about "crafting the first Pokedex" (Potential continuity snags aside, depending on what they document.), so those concerns might seem harder to dismiss.
A game set in the past might also not deliver too much exciting lore; Not as many legends & stories, Pokemon abilities won't be as well-documented, so we might not get as much out of it.
Pardon me & all my rambling, please.
As you can imagine, the recent news has me a little... restless, I suppose? It's mixed feelings, good & bad, for better or for worse.
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Eat some ice cubes and chill.
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Lol, sorry. Just a lot of new information to think about. It left me anxious & excited, lol. I'd say I'm calmer now.
Sorry if all my text bothered you. I'm probably gonna go take a nap now.
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I mean based off leaks Humans are definitely going to need to scale to pokemon so 7-A Ash
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ILCA is a kick-ass company. You don’t have to worry.
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I mean, that's not my only concern, but thanks for that reassurance.
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Poké Job - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia
Apparently psychic type pokémon are good at debugging
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Reminds me of Pokemon Memories, albeit, for kinda the opposite reason.Poké Job - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia
bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net
Apparently psychic type pokémon are good at debugging
Memory (game mechanic) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia
Despite Bulbapedia's title (Which may also be because their page titled just Memory, is about Silvally's Held Items.), this element seems to be based purely on providing lore or flavour; It doesn't affect gameplay beyond being able to be initiated & the results read; Not to try & dismiss Poke Jobs, but comparatively, Memories seem like less of a Game Mechanic.
ANYWAY, what it reminded me of was this:
"<Pokémon> was impressed by the speed of the train it took with <Trainer>."
Besides it being potentially disagreeable with our Pokemon speed standards (Though I can believe not all Pokemon are so fast, especially untrained ones....), there's this:
Rapidash's Fire Red Pokedex entry:
| FireRed | It can gallop at a top speed of 150 miles per hour. It can race as fast as a bullet train while ablaze. |
|---|
& that just makes me think:
Rapidash, riding a train: "Wow! This thing is almost as fast as ME!"
....Though, the basis of that entry could be outdated or misinformed, since that FireRed Pokedex entry's bullet train comparison was never repeated, & Googling bullet train speeds gets me:
The maximum operating speed is 320 km/h (200 mph) (on a 387.5 km section of the Tōhoku Shinkansen). Test runs have reached 443 km/h (275 mph) for conventional rail in 1996, and up to a world record 603 km/h (375 mph) for SCMaglev trains in April 2015.
Which ARE faster than the roughly 240 km/h top speed claim given for Rapidash.
Still, it is interesting. If it's generic, that all Pokemon are capable of having such a memory of being impressed by the train it took....
I haven't rode a train in a while: Do trains seem faster when riding them?
Or we could argue it's the authors not properly considering feats in canon.
The maximum operating speed is 320 km/h (200 mph) (on a 387.5 km section of the Tōhoku Shinkansen). Test runs have reached 443 km/h (275 mph) for conventional rail in 1996, and up to a world record 603 km/h (375 mph) for SCMaglev trains in April 2015.
Which ARE faster than the roughly 240 km/h top speed claim given for Rapidash.
Still, it is interesting. If it's generic, that all Pokemon are capable of having such a memory of being impressed by the train it took....
I haven't rode a train in a while: Do trains seem faster when riding them?
Or we could argue it's the authors not properly considering feats in canon.
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- Thread starter
- #373
It's easier than the method to get the Regis in any game
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Posting this separately because I think the other memories have interesting implications.
Summary of implications I inferred (Also, I may've missed a few of note.) : Pokemon seem to understand what catching, battling, hatching, & evolution are, can recognize when their moves have no effect, what certain types of locations are (Like Secret Bases.), as well as some trainers, or at least, what strong trainers are. They understand numbers enough to understand something is a high score, understand what various technologies are (Or at least what they do.), as well as recognizing benches, trash bins, elevators, maps, repellants & possibly other items, are able to tell something is a "complex" machine, when trainers have won the Lottery/Loto-ID, understand that their trainer may give them an item to help them, when people are impressed, if they've won a contest, & can tell when you haven't bought something, Pokemon may ascribe meaning to nicknames they receive, & likely more.
Furthermore:
Pokemon Centers heal "tired bodies", a train may be considered fast when riding it, a Pokemon can feel it goes "really fast" during Rallies, Pokemon seem to be able to see from inside their Poke Balls, & while in a Box, can also chat with other Pokemon in their Box, sleep, dream, study moves, practice poses & get into fights about their Trainer. (As well as hold items, obviously.)
A battle that goes to Struggle is considered hard fought, Super Training can be remembered as "very hard training". Pokemon can recognize their reflection & remember doing so.
Also, Move Relearners MAY not be necessary for a Pokemon to remember moves (As it's implied it's the trainer & Pokemon involved.). Also, Pokemon can remember forgetting moves.
Also, the way Pokemon can get attached to ther trainers is very cute, if I may be so opinionated.
....Oh & your Pokemon might be.... watching you when you're trying on clothes??
Though, admittedly, it's possible some instances of Pokemon remembering/distinguishing people, places or objects could be the Pokemon simply remembering that without being able to identify it, but the Memory person being able to identify it from speech.
Unfortunately, many are frustratingly vague about what circumstances cause the memories, & Bulbapedia doesn't document causes well.
Ex:
"<Pokémon> learned <move> from <Trainer>."
Is this inclusive of TMs? Are the trainers involved in learning moves from TMs beyond applying it?
"<Pokémon> helped <Trainer> hatch <other Pokémon> from an Egg."
Does this require having Flame Body/Magma Armor? Or is it a matter of being in the party? Battling? Lore says often lively trainers help Pokemon Eggs hatch.
"<Pokémon> almost got lost when it explored a forest with <Trainer>."
Which forest? It's an interesting implication about how labrynthine a location can be.
Sorry about all the words. Hopefully this isn't too long-winded of a list.
1. "With <Trainer>, <Pokémon> went to the Pokémon Center and had its tired body healed there."
Info about Pokemon Center technology, since it seems to tell us Pokemon Centers heal fatigue, & likely physical injury as well.
2. "<Pokémon> used <move> at <Trainer>'s instruction, but it had no effect"
Implies that in general, Pokemon can perceive (& remember that) & recognize their own move having no effect. Helpful for clarifying their Intelligence statistic?
3. "<Pokémon> battled at <Trainer>'s side and defeated a Gym Leader."
"<Pokémon> battled at <Trainer>'s side and defeated the Champion."
"<Pokémon> battled at <Trainer>'s side and defeated a Battle Chatelaine/the strongest Trainer."
Implies Pokemon recognize who/what a Gym Leader is, & it's supported by Friendship being awarded specifically for battling a Gym Leader, Elite Four or Champion. Or at least, they take notice of battling a strong trainer.
4. "<Pokémon> was there when <Trainer> completed the Pokédex.."
Implies Pokemon understand what's happening when the Pokedex records new data for obtaining a Pokemon.
5. "<Pokémon> searched for hidden items with <Trainer> using the Dowsing Machine <place>."
Implies recognition of the Dowsing Machine.
6. "<Pokémon> checked a destination with <Trainer> using the Town Map <place>."
Implies understanding of the Town Map, & by extension, at least some ability to comprehend maps/cartography.
7. "<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to use Strength, and it proudly used the move <place>."
"<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to use Cut, and it proudly used the move <place>."
"<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to shatter rocks, which it did to its heart's content <place>."
Pokemon use Strength/Cut/Rock Smash proudly/enjoyingly. Feels like there's something to take away about the (Protagonist)Trainer-&-Pokemon bond from this.
8. "<Trainer> had <Pokémon> hold items like <item> to help it along."
Implies Pokemon understand the items are given to be held to help the Pokemon.
9. "<Pokémon> headed for/went to Victory Road with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon recognize Victory Road.
10. "<Pokémon> got a high score at the Battle Institute where it challenged others with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand scoring.
11. "The Move Deleter that <Pokémon> met through <Trainer> made it forget <move>."
Implies Pokemon remember being made to forget moves. (Being made to forget a move could be distinct from forgetting how to perform the move.)
12. "<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to remember <move>, and it was able to remember the move."
Implies that Pokemon remembering moves involves the participation of the Pokemon & Trainer, & thus, implies it doesn't necessarily require a Move Relearner's involvement.
13. "<Pokémon> was excited when <Trainer> won prizes like <item> through Loto-ID."
Implies Pokemon understand the Lottery/Loto-ID enough to understand when someone has won it.
14. "<Pokémon> was there when <Trainer> used a repellent <place>."
Implies Pokemon recognize repels/"repellants".
15. "<Pokémon> had a very hard training session with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon, in general, consider Super Training "very hard training sessions". (Presumably, not true of all Pokemon, but if this can occur for any Pokemon species....)
16. "<Pokémon> took an elevator with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand what elevators are.
17. "<Pokémon> was taken to the Name Rater by <Trainer> and given a fateful name."
Implies Pokemon understand being given a nickname, & may ascribe significance to their nicknames.
18. "<Pokémon> was there when <Trainer> went to a boutique and tried on clothes but left the boutique without buying anything."
Implies Pokemon understand what happens in a store enough to know when you're trying on clothes (Presumably one from the store, rather than ones you own.), & understand what buying something is & when you do or don't do it.
Also: Why are people's Pokemon watching me try on clothes? & how? Do they see me from inside their Poke Balls? I hope they're watching from outside the fitting room.
19. "<Pokémon> checked a bin with <Trainer> <place>."
Implies Pokemon understand what trash bins are.
20. "<Pokémon> fought hard until it had to use Struggle when it battled at <Trainer>'s side against <other Pokémon>."
Implies a battle that reaches using Struggle is hard fought. (No duh.)
21. "<Pokémon> saw itself in a mirror in/inside a mirror cave that it went to/explored with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand seeing themselves &/or their reflections.
21. "<Pokémon> went to a factory with <Trainer> and saw a lot of machines that looked very complicated."
Seems to imply the Poke Ball Factory's(?) machinery seems complicated, in general.
22. "<Pokémon> was there when <Trainer> created a Secret Base."
Implies Pokemon understand what Secret Bases are.
23."<Pokémon> participated in a contest with <Trainer> and impressed many people."
"<Pokémon> participated in a contest with <Trainer> and won the title."
Implies Pokemon understand contests.
24. "<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to dive. Down it went, deep into the ocean, to explore the bottom of the sea."
Implies diving locations, are, in general, deep. (As opposed to diving into shallow water.)
25. "<Pokémon> sat with <Trainer> on a bench <place>."
Implies Pokemon recognize what benches are. (Also, I want sitting back as a feature in the games again.)
26. "<Pokémon> battled at <Trainer>'s side against <other Pokémon> that Dynamaxed."
"<Pokémon> battled <other Pokémon> and Dynamaxed upon <Trainer>'s instruction."
Implies Pokemon understand what Dynamaxing is, & understand/recognize themselves &/or other Pokemon doing it.
27. "<Pokémon> camped with <Trainer>"
"<Pokémon> cooked with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand what camping & cooking are.
28. "<Pokémon> was taken to a Pokémon Nursery by <Trainer> and left with <other Pokémon>."
Implies Pokemon understand what a Pokemon Nursery is.
29. "<Pokémon> celebrated <Trainer>'s birthday in a Pokémon Center."
Implies Pokemon understand what birthdays are.
30. "<Pokémon> went to a hair salon with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon recognize hair salons, & also, watch you get your haircut from inside their Poke Balls.
31. "<Pokémon> participated in a rally with <Trainer> and went really fast."
Implies that Pokemon, in general, can consider the speeds on the Rotom Bike (Possibly those when affected by a speed boost.) to be "really fast"?
32. "<Pokémon> studied about how to use <move> in a Box, thinking about <Trainer>."
Pokemon can study how to use moves while in Boxes.
33. "<Pokémon> practiced its cool pose for the move <move> in a Box, wishing to be praised by <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand posing. Also: Aww.
34. "<Pokémon> had a great chat about <Trainer> with the <other Pokémon> that it was in a Box with."
Pokemon can "chat" with other Pokemon in their box.
35. "<Pokémon> became good friends with the <other Pokémon> in a Box, practiced moves with it, and talked about the day that <Pokémon> would be praised by <Trainer>."
Redundant, but cute.
35. "<Pokémon> was worried if <Trainer> was looking for the <item> that it was holding in a Box."
Also cute. Though it makes me wonder about why they're worried. Neat info about their intelligence, though.
36. "When <Trainer> came to check on <Pokémon> in a Box, it got nervous and couldn't make eye contact with <Trainer>."
"When <Pokémon> heard a rumor that <Trainer> arrived at a place... <place>, it imagined how <Trainer> looked there."
"<Pokémon> got in a fight with the <other Pokémon> that it was in a Box with about <Trainer>."
"When <Pokémon> was in a Box, it thought about the reason why <Trainer> had it hold the <item>."
All too cute.
37. "When <Pokémon> was in a Box, it had a weird dream in which <Trainer> was using the move <move>."
Pokemon can fall asleep/dream in a box. Makes it evident Pokemon have dreams, & also a possible topic for them. Cute that a Pokemon might think about its trainer so much that it sees them in their dreams.
Info about Pokemon Center technology, since it seems to tell us Pokemon Centers heal fatigue, & likely physical injury as well.
2. "<Pokémon> used <move> at <Trainer>'s instruction, but it had no effect"
Implies that in general, Pokemon can perceive (& remember that) & recognize their own move having no effect. Helpful for clarifying their Intelligence statistic?
3. "<Pokémon> battled at <Trainer>'s side and defeated a Gym Leader."
"<Pokémon> battled at <Trainer>'s side and defeated the Champion."
"<Pokémon> battled at <Trainer>'s side and defeated a Battle Chatelaine/the strongest Trainer."
Implies Pokemon recognize who/what a Gym Leader is, & it's supported by Friendship being awarded specifically for battling a Gym Leader, Elite Four or Champion. Or at least, they take notice of battling a strong trainer.
4. "<Pokémon> was there when <Trainer> completed the Pokédex.."
Implies Pokemon understand what's happening when the Pokedex records new data for obtaining a Pokemon.
5. "<Pokémon> searched for hidden items with <Trainer> using the Dowsing Machine <place>."
Implies recognition of the Dowsing Machine.
6. "<Pokémon> checked a destination with <Trainer> using the Town Map <place>."
Implies understanding of the Town Map, & by extension, at least some ability to comprehend maps/cartography.
7. "<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to use Strength, and it proudly used the move <place>."
"<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to use Cut, and it proudly used the move <place>."
"<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to shatter rocks, which it did to its heart's content <place>."
Pokemon use Strength/Cut/Rock Smash proudly/enjoyingly. Feels like there's something to take away about the (Protagonist)Trainer-&-Pokemon bond from this.
8. "<Trainer> had <Pokémon> hold items like <item> to help it along."
Implies Pokemon understand the items are given to be held to help the Pokemon.
9. "<Pokémon> headed for/went to Victory Road with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon recognize Victory Road.
10. "<Pokémon> got a high score at the Battle Institute where it challenged others with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand scoring.
11. "The Move Deleter that <Pokémon> met through <Trainer> made it forget <move>."
Implies Pokemon remember being made to forget moves. (Being made to forget a move could be distinct from forgetting how to perform the move.)
12. "<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to remember <move>, and it was able to remember the move."
Implies that Pokemon remembering moves involves the participation of the Pokemon & Trainer, & thus, implies it doesn't necessarily require a Move Relearner's involvement.
13. "<Pokémon> was excited when <Trainer> won prizes like <item> through Loto-ID."
Implies Pokemon understand the Lottery/Loto-ID enough to understand when someone has won it.
14. "<Pokémon> was there when <Trainer> used a repellent <place>."
Implies Pokemon recognize repels/"repellants".
15. "<Pokémon> had a very hard training session with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon, in general, consider Super Training "very hard training sessions". (Presumably, not true of all Pokemon, but if this can occur for any Pokemon species....)
16. "<Pokémon> took an elevator with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand what elevators are.
17. "<Pokémon> was taken to the Name Rater by <Trainer> and given a fateful name."
Implies Pokemon understand being given a nickname, & may ascribe significance to their nicknames.
18. "<Pokémon> was there when <Trainer> went to a boutique and tried on clothes but left the boutique without buying anything."
Implies Pokemon understand what happens in a store enough to know when you're trying on clothes (Presumably one from the store, rather than ones you own.), & understand what buying something is & when you do or don't do it.
Also: Why are people's Pokemon watching me try on clothes? & how? Do they see me from inside their Poke Balls? I hope they're watching from outside the fitting room.
19. "<Pokémon> checked a bin with <Trainer> <place>."
Implies Pokemon understand what trash bins are.
20. "<Pokémon> fought hard until it had to use Struggle when it battled at <Trainer>'s side against <other Pokémon>."
Implies a battle that reaches using Struggle is hard fought. (No duh.)
21. "<Pokémon> saw itself in a mirror in/inside a mirror cave that it went to/explored with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand seeing themselves &/or their reflections.
21. "<Pokémon> went to a factory with <Trainer> and saw a lot of machines that looked very complicated."
Seems to imply the Poke Ball Factory's(?) machinery seems complicated, in general.
22. "<Pokémon> was there when <Trainer> created a Secret Base."
Implies Pokemon understand what Secret Bases are.
23."<Pokémon> participated in a contest with <Trainer> and impressed many people."
"<Pokémon> participated in a contest with <Trainer> and won the title."
Implies Pokemon understand contests.
24. "<Trainer> asked <Pokémon> to dive. Down it went, deep into the ocean, to explore the bottom of the sea."
Implies diving locations, are, in general, deep. (As opposed to diving into shallow water.)
25. "<Pokémon> sat with <Trainer> on a bench <place>."
Implies Pokemon recognize what benches are. (Also, I want sitting back as a feature in the games again.)
26. "<Pokémon> battled at <Trainer>'s side against <other Pokémon> that Dynamaxed."
"<Pokémon> battled <other Pokémon> and Dynamaxed upon <Trainer>'s instruction."
Implies Pokemon understand what Dynamaxing is, & understand/recognize themselves &/or other Pokemon doing it.
27. "<Pokémon> camped with <Trainer>"
"<Pokémon> cooked with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand what camping & cooking are.
28. "<Pokémon> was taken to a Pokémon Nursery by <Trainer> and left with <other Pokémon>."
Implies Pokemon understand what a Pokemon Nursery is.
29. "<Pokémon> celebrated <Trainer>'s birthday in a Pokémon Center."
Implies Pokemon understand what birthdays are.
30. "<Pokémon> went to a hair salon with <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon recognize hair salons, & also, watch you get your haircut from inside their Poke Balls.
31. "<Pokémon> participated in a rally with <Trainer> and went really fast."
Implies that Pokemon, in general, can consider the speeds on the Rotom Bike (Possibly those when affected by a speed boost.) to be "really fast"?
32. "<Pokémon> studied about how to use <move> in a Box, thinking about <Trainer>."
Pokemon can study how to use moves while in Boxes.
33. "<Pokémon> practiced its cool pose for the move <move> in a Box, wishing to be praised by <Trainer>."
Implies Pokemon understand posing. Also: Aww.
34. "<Pokémon> had a great chat about <Trainer> with the <other Pokémon> that it was in a Box with."
Pokemon can "chat" with other Pokemon in their box.
35. "<Pokémon> became good friends with the <other Pokémon> in a Box, practiced moves with it, and talked about the day that <Pokémon> would be praised by <Trainer>."
Redundant, but cute.
35. "<Pokémon> was worried if <Trainer> was looking for the <item> that it was holding in a Box."
Also cute. Though it makes me wonder about why they're worried. Neat info about their intelligence, though.
36. "When <Trainer> came to check on <Pokémon> in a Box, it got nervous and couldn't make eye contact with <Trainer>."
"When <Pokémon> heard a rumor that <Trainer> arrived at a place... <place>, it imagined how <Trainer> looked there."
"<Pokémon> got in a fight with the <other Pokémon> that it was in a Box with about <Trainer>."
"When <Pokémon> was in a Box, it thought about the reason why <Trainer> had it hold the <item>."
All too cute.
37. "When <Pokémon> was in a Box, it had a weird dream in which <Trainer> was using the move <move>."
Pokemon can fall asleep/dream in a box. Makes it evident Pokemon have dreams, & also a possible topic for them. Cute that a Pokemon might think about its trainer so much that it sees them in their dreams.
Summary of implications I inferred (Also, I may've missed a few of note.) : Pokemon seem to understand what catching, battling, hatching, & evolution are, can recognize when their moves have no effect, what certain types of locations are (Like Secret Bases.), as well as some trainers, or at least, what strong trainers are. They understand numbers enough to understand something is a high score, understand what various technologies are (Or at least what they do.), as well as recognizing benches, trash bins, elevators, maps, repellants & possibly other items, are able to tell something is a "complex" machine, when trainers have won the Lottery/Loto-ID, understand that their trainer may give them an item to help them, when people are impressed, if they've won a contest, & can tell when you haven't bought something, Pokemon may ascribe meaning to nicknames they receive, & likely more.
Furthermore:
Pokemon Centers heal "tired bodies", a train may be considered fast when riding it, a Pokemon can feel it goes "really fast" during Rallies, Pokemon seem to be able to see from inside their Poke Balls, & while in a Box, can also chat with other Pokemon in their Box, sleep, dream, study moves, practice poses & get into fights about their Trainer. (As well as hold items, obviously.)
A battle that goes to Struggle is considered hard fought, Super Training can be remembered as "very hard training". Pokemon can recognize their reflection & remember doing so.
Also, Move Relearners MAY not be necessary for a Pokemon to remember moves (As it's implied it's the trainer & Pokemon involved.). Also, Pokemon can remember forgetting moves.
Also, the way Pokemon can get attached to ther trainers is very cute, if I may be so opinionated.
....Oh & your Pokemon might be.... watching you when you're trying on clothes??
Though, admittedly, it's possible some instances of Pokemon remembering/distinguishing people, places or objects could be the Pokemon simply remembering that without being able to identify it, but the Memory person being able to identify it from speech.
Unfortunately, many are frustratingly vague about what circumstances cause the memories, & Bulbapedia doesn't document causes well.
Ex:
"<Pokémon> learned <move> from <Trainer>."
Is this inclusive of TMs? Are the trainers involved in learning moves from TMs beyond applying it?
"<Pokémon> helped <Trainer> hatch <other Pokémon> from an Egg."
Does this require having Flame Body/Magma Armor? Or is it a matter of being in the party? Battling? Lore says often lively trainers help Pokemon Eggs hatch.
"<Pokémon> almost got lost when it explored a forest with <Trainer>."
Which forest? It's an interesting implication about how labrynthine a location can be.
Sorry about all the words. Hopefully this isn't too long-winded of a list.
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Well, it was said in that cutscene that, "It will destroy the world if it continues on its path!" so knowing the original Japanese dialogue MIGHT be helpful in distinguishing if it's life wiping (Somewhere in Tier 6) or actual Planet Destroying Level.
Also, they call it a "falling star" & a "star", right? Is it an actual star, or a meteor? Nonetheless, we can see in the shots at around 1:18 or so that it utterly dwarfs even the largest mountains, in the shot as well as the clouds.
I'm too lazy to pixel scale it currently, but what do we use for minimum/average mountain height?
Most mountains, AFAIK, are hundreds of meters to a few kilometers in size, & Grand Meteor Delta was about 10 km.
Since I'm too lazy to properly calculate it, & we may just use the statements' implications for the rating instead of a calculation proper, let's do a deliberate highball.
To that end, I'll do this under the potentially faulty assumption that it's a staggeing 100 kilometers in size, 10 times as big as the meteor Mega Rayquaza destroyed.
Calculations
In order to determine a character's Destructive Capacity, we must first look through the character's feats, and determine how much energy was exerted to preform such a feat. Sometimes the destructive capacity of the feat can be determined easily with no need of a calculation, but most of the...
vsbattles.fandom.com
"A reasonable high end for meteors that come from outer space is 17,000 m/s, as it is the speed value of most of the meteors that have entered earths atmosphere."
- Meteors: 3000-3700 Kg/m^3
Since we need volume to get mass, as we already have density, I'll simplify & assume it's a sphere rather than try to determine the actual shape.
Volume of a sphere is 4/3 (4/3 = 1.33~) * pi * the cube of the radius (The radius is half the diameter). So with a 100 km diameter, we get:
About 523,598.77559829887307710723054658 cubic kilometers of volume. (Nearly 524,000!)
Mass = Volume * Density.
Since a single cubic km is 1,000,000,000 (1 billion!) cubic meters, our volume in cubic kilometers, when converted to cubic meters is:
Roughly 523,598,775,598,298.87307710723054658 cubic meters. (Nearly 524 trillion!)
At 3700 kilograms per cubic meter, the mass comes out to:
(That volume.) * 3700 kg/m^3 = 1,937,315,469,713,705,830.3852967530223 kg (Almost 2 quintillion kilograms!)
If it's moving at 17,000 meters per second.... Well, the kinetic energy formula we use for meteors is:
Ek=0.5*M*V^2
17,000 squared is 289,000,000 (289 million.)
0.5 * that mass * the velocity/speed squared, so....
559,884,170,747,260,984,981,350,761.62344 joules or 5.598841707472609849813507616234×10^26 joules.
Unfortunately, High 6-A - Multi-Continent Level ranges from 1.855604x10^25 to 1.24x10^29 joules, so this falls in there, & not even very far; Remember, 10^26 is 10 times less than 10^27, so it's a few orders of Magnitude below 5-C - Moon Level. Considering I was kinda trying to highball this.... Well, it's certainly well below where Rayquaza is power-scaled to, at 5-B - Planet Level, in base.
....But that's for if the meteor made an impact with its kinetic energy. What if it were destroyed, as we see Rayquaza do to it?
It's turned into shiny particles, so possibly it was destroyed into pieces so finely they're just shiny because they reflect light off themselves, like shards of glass?
So given that, & that I'm trying to highball, let's assume pulverization.
vsbattles.fandom.com
Let's assume Rock, which is 214 joules per Cubic Centimeters. Since we already got the volume above, & converted it to Cubic Meters, we just need to convert it to Cubic Centimeters, then multiply by 214.
1 cubic meter = 1,000,000 (1 million!) cubic centimeters!
Thus, 523,598,775,598,298.87307710723054658 cubic meters = 523,598,775,598,298,873,077.10723054658 (Nearly 524 quintillion!) cubic cm. * 214 =
112,050,137,978,035,958,838,500.94733697 (Over 112 sextillion!) joules.
....Unfortunately, as I'm sure you know, the same volume with smaller multipliers won't get a bigger result. It's only 1.1205013797803595883850094733697×10^23 joules, which is only a good way into 6-B - Country Level.
Not to mention that we have to account for the timeframe it took to accomplish the feat, by dividing the yield in joules by the timeframe it took to achieve it. AKA, how long Rayquaza spends destroying it.
The beam makes contact around 48 seconds in, & the remaining minute has the beam being fired, so it might be divided by 60, more or less. After such a division, the yield per second of the feat, which is what we'd apply to Attack Potency, would be around 1.8675023e21 joules, or High 6-C - Large Island Level.
So given that, & that I'm trying to highball, let's assume pulverization.
Calculations
In order to determine a character's Destructive Capacity, we must first look through the character's feats, and determine how much energy was exerted to preform such a feat. Sometimes the destructive capacity of the feat can be determined easily with no need of a calculation, but most of the...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Let's assume Rock, which is 214 joules per Cubic Centimeters. Since we already got the volume above, & converted it to Cubic Meters, we just need to convert it to Cubic Centimeters, then multiply by 214.
1 cubic meter = 1,000,000 (1 million!) cubic centimeters!
Thus, 523,598,775,598,298.87307710723054658 cubic meters = 523,598,775,598,298,873,077.10723054658 (Nearly 524 quintillion!) cubic cm. * 214 =
112,050,137,978,035,958,838,500.94733697 (Over 112 sextillion!) joules.
....Unfortunately, as I'm sure you know, the same volume with smaller multipliers won't get a bigger result. It's only 1.1205013797803595883850094733697×10^23 joules, which is only a good way into 6-B - Country Level.
Not to mention that we have to account for the timeframe it took to accomplish the feat, by dividing the yield in joules by the timeframe it took to achieve it. AKA, how long Rayquaza spends destroying it.
The beam makes contact around 48 seconds in, & the remaining minute has the beam being fired, so it might be divided by 60, more or less. After such a division, the yield per second of the feat, which is what we'd apply to Attack Potency, would be around 1.8675023e21 joules, or High 6-C - Large Island Level.
Of course, if this is indeed a star as the characters call it.... Well, then, destroying it is quite the stellar feat, since this seems to be Base Rayquaza, which is only 5-B - Planet Level, while it's Mega form is 5-A , likely 4-B.
I wonder if we'd use GBE for this? If it's a meteor? If it's a star?
Though, if it is a "star", it's a bizarrely small one, since it fits in a planet's atmosphere & mountains seem to be an appreciable portion of its diameter.
Cutscene limitations?
Hopefully this helps!
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Isn't it non-canon now?
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A feat that at most, is several Orders of Magnitude below 5-C, as a supporting feat for a Pokemon that's 5-B in base?
Or is there support to it being an actual star?
Why would it be non-canonical?
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Mystery Dungeon series isn't considered canon to the larger Pokémon canon
However, I think that with the blog that I'm making, returning to using the Mystery Dungeon series as a secondary source to support the main series seems to be a possibility. I'm doing my best to finish the blog today (Although the Magikarp mobile game is easier to be accepted as canon than the Mystery Dungeon series..)
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Its non canon on this site, but nothing actually proves its non canon
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Of course if I'm talking about the context of something from our profiles, I'll be referring to the current accepted canonicity here, don't have any reason to be repeating "Other places consider it canon". Still, the whole point of that reply was exactly to say that I was going to try to proof the canonicity of those games, so it's unnecessary to say more than that.
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Well, you are on this site, and you work around it’s rule. It is your job to prove it is canon if you want it to account as such.
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I had my mind opened by memes. Maybe this is info everyone here already knows, but who cares!?
According to japanese books in the sinnoh library people used to be the same as pokemon and married them. This explains everything.
why are (why can) humans (be) so strong and resistant, capable of tanking mountain buster attacks? Why are there human psychics and people with superhuman strength? Why is ash so damn physically superior to literally everyone we've seen? I don't remember other people throwing logs and boulders around with ease.
Why is ash's father gone? Probably was some legendary pokemon or sth, would explain ash's aura and how legendary pokemon surround him a lot. For all i know it definitely isn't freaking mr.mime.
According to japanese books in the sinnoh library people used to be the same as pokemon and married them. This explains everything.
why are (why can) humans (be) so strong and resistant, capable of tanking mountain buster attacks? Why are there human psychics and people with superhuman strength? Why is ash so damn physically superior to literally everyone we've seen? I don't remember other people throwing logs and boulders around with ease.
Why is ash's father gone? Probably was some legendary pokemon or sth, would explain ash's aura and how legendary pokemon surround him a lot. For all i know it definitely isn't freaking mr.mime.
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Honestly People are most likely just a type of pokemon
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also i'd like to revive this. I tried doing an edit but antivasima told me i need a crt. please help.
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While working on the blog about Pokémon Canon, I can't help but laugh on the fact that of all the Pokémon spin-offs, "Magikarp Jump" was in fact among the ones that most help to understand how the Pokemon "canon" thing really works. And after that, it's Detective Pikachu... (Mystery Dungeon is in fact one that has the least amount of info in relation to that, and this makes me cry)
The way how Pokémon works is really fascinating.
The way how Pokémon works is really fascinating.
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What were their contributions to understanding canon?
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I just released the blog with the info, if anyone wants to know my opinion on the subject, go on.
But answering about Detective Pikachu and Magikarp Jump, the interview with the producers of the games revealed two things about how the spin-offs fit with the greater Pokémon World
The developer of Makigarp Jump explained that since it's expected to spin-off material to be set in the same world of the main series, even though the spin-offs are the places were they are able to show "their own colors", the games themselves needs to still follow the rules of the Pokémon world and work within that place. It's something that the developers seems to agree with.
And with Detective Pikachu the director of the game revealed that this isn't just something that the developers themselves thinks about, but is something that the Pokémon Company/Game Freak is very serious about. According to him, everything that happens in one product (Including other media such as the anime) needs to be deeply accepted by them, as they often remove anything that doesn't seem to fit with the world that they built. As such if something seems to not fit into that world, or it's removed, or it needs to have a very good in-universe explanation for why that "outlier" happened in the world. That is why Detective Pikachu needed all of the story elements to explain how Pikachu could talk as a human, because it's something that break the normal rules.
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They must not have been as serious about it before.
Pikachu defeating a Rhyhorn by shocking its horn.
The Kanto Gym Leaders being Team Rocket members.
Mewtwo having human DNA in it.
The very stupid concept of Team Rocket having any involvement with Mewtwo instead of solely being made by Dr. Fuji.
Etc.
Pikachu defeating a Rhyhorn by shocking its horn.
The Kanto Gym Leaders being Team Rocket members.
Mewtwo having human DNA in it.
The very stupid concept of Team Rocket having any involvement with Mewtwo instead of solely being made by Dr. Fuji.
Etc.
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Fun fact: There's a guy in Opelucid City (Unova) who basically tells you that he wants a pokémon from another world (the opposite version of the game) with the move Charge.
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You are mostly right. The author of Pokémon Adventures did say that he had much more freedom with his stories in the earlier days, and "could do whatever he wanted". Now he says that the Pokémon Company is much more strict with the rules and guidelines that the Pokémon World needs to follow.
Still some of the things that you said aren't necessarily about rules and the setting itself. The Kanto Gym Leaders for example, it's only about how a character act. Even among different games characters can act differently, even you own playable character can be different from other players having an entire different story, yet following the same structure. The thing about the rules is much more about how the world works, the Pokemon themselves and so on.
Yet, as the characters from the games and its structure becomes more popular and well known, the manga of course needed to have its characters also more connected with the games. I think that you could say that the end of the G/S/C chapter, the structure of the world of Adventure started to be more in line with the game world. Still, that don't really matters for the idea that it's the rules of the worlds that needs to be followed. The adaptations can have their own twist on the characters, although nowadays Pokémon Company is more strict with how much freedom the manga (You could also think of the anime) can have with that aspect as well.
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About the whole Giratina topic I would like to add this quote from Cynthia:
"And the large light at their center. Does it represent something else? Could it be what created this world of ours? May I continue for a little bit longer? Thank you for listening to my theory. Do you know of the ancient Plates they find all over Sinnoh? One of them had this engraved on it. Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One.' I think this quote, too, points to the presence of another Pokémon. A Pokémon even more powerful than Dialga or Palkia. Does that sound plausible to you? I'm not quite sure how Giratina fits into this scheme of things, but... It's said that in the Distortion World, neither time nor space were stable. I think that tells us something about Giratina, the only Pokémon there. It must have been as powerful as Dialga and Palkia, the rulers of time and space. In some way, though, Giratina has to have a power opposite of theirs."
"And the large light at their center. Does it represent something else? Could it be what created this world of ours? May I continue for a little bit longer? Thank you for listening to my theory. Do you know of the ancient Plates they find all over Sinnoh? One of them had this engraved on it. Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One.' I think this quote, too, points to the presence of another Pokémon. A Pokémon even more powerful than Dialga or Palkia. Does that sound plausible to you? I'm not quite sure how Giratina fits into this scheme of things, but... It's said that in the Distortion World, neither time nor space were stable. I think that tells us something about Giratina, the only Pokémon there. It must have been as powerful as Dialga and Palkia, the rulers of time and space. In some way, though, Giratina has to have a power opposite of theirs."
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I'll update this blog with as much information as I can, I think that we need a new blog to show the new things that we discovered.
Yet, I would like to try to discuss the canon issue when the current Pokémon CRT stops. Hoping it doesn't take a lot of time
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good luck bro
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Searching for content for my blogs, I found a very funny trivia about some of the Pokémon translations.
I saw this scene being used a lot to show that "Alone the Creation trio can only create/destroy a galaxy"
I decided to check the original Japanese version and I found something interesting.
"Oh! Dialga/Palkia, that is... Fantastic! Beautiful! It's a new galaxy! It's the birth of the universe!"
I started having this thought because in Pokémon Generations Cyrus says "Give me your power! Create a new galaxy ! A new world!"
In the japanese version I could hear the words "Ginga" (Galaxy) and "Uchu" (universe). Seems like the changes that are made in the English script are really definitive in relation to future references. It's a very interesting consistency with Pokémon products.
It's funny that while some franchises have the problem of the word "World" (Sekai) being used and can mean lots of things, with Pokémon in the moment that they decided to say "Universe", the translation decided to use "World". It's funny when I stop to think about it.
I saw this scene being used a lot to show that "Alone the Creation trio can only create/destroy a galaxy"
I decided to check the original Japanese version and I found something interesting.
"Oh! Dialga/Palkia, that is... Fantastic! Beautiful! It's a new galaxy! It's the birth of the universe!"
I started having this thought because in Pokémon Generations Cyrus says "Give me your power! Create a new galaxy ! A new world!"
In the japanese version I could hear the words "Ginga" (Galaxy) and "Uchu" (universe). Seems like the changes that are made in the English script are really definitive in relation to future references. It's a very interesting consistency with Pokémon products.
It's funny that while some franchises have the problem of the word "World" (Sekai) being used and can mean lots of things, with Pokémon in the moment that they decided to say "Universe", the translation decided to use "World". It's funny when I stop to think about it.
