Hasty12345
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We all know what it says, you’ve tattooed it onto our brainsHow many times are you going to fail to give a reasonable counter for it
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We all know what it says, you’ve tattooed it onto our brainsHow many times are you going to fail to give a reasonable counter for it
The Creation Story talks about Arceus the Pokémon. His True Form has 0 relationships with the PlatesSo yeah, first, I'll argue why the Original One (True Form Arceus) should keep all abilities and moves. First, let's take a look at "the Original Story".
⠀⠀— The Original Story
- "In the beginning, there was only a churning turmoil of chaos. At the heart of chaos, where all things became one, appeared an Egg. Having tumbled from the vortex, the egg gave rise to the Original One. From itself, two beings the Original One did make. Time started to spin. Space began to expand. From itself again, three living things the Original One did make. The two beings wished, and from them, matter came to be. The three living things wished, and form them, spirit came to be. The world created, the Original One took to unyielding sleep."
This already confirms that Palkia, Dialga and the Lake Trio are nothing but smaller parts of Arceus itself. Thus, Arceus is actually the entire Universe, reality, and all Pokemon. They are all smaller parts of the Original One, thus, this already gives us a reason to make True Arceus scale to them, since they are it. There isn't the need for the lore to go out of its way to showcase Arceus doing literally everything to satisfy the burden of proof. There is no anti-feat.
'Well, Arceus can't learn the TM Focus Punch'.
Let's look at this dialogue in Pokemon Platinum.
⠀⠀— Hiker
- "A Pokémon is said to have shaped this world. Could that Pokémon be the physical form of the original spirit?"
Implying that the Arceus we see in game is just a physical manifestation of the Original One, an Avatar. So Arceus not learning a TM isn't an Anti Feat for the Original One, but only it's Avatar.
This should already give us a decent basis to scale True Arceus to all Pokemon. But -
Diving into the plates
So yeah, Staff seems to believe that the Plates are a weak argument. But that's only because people did a really, really poor job at explaining them. Let's first state what the plates even are, still looking at dialogue from Platinum.
⠀⠀— Hiker's Book
- "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came. When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate. The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate. Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One. Three beings were born to bind time and space. Two make matter, and three make spirit, shaping the world."
So, yeah, Arceus' shards became the plates. They are stated to be part of Arceus' Body.
⠀⠀— Hiker's Book (Japanese Version)
- "生まれてくる ポケモン プレートの力 わけあたえられるPokémon born with the power of the plate."
Pokemon are born with the power of the plates, which are just Arceus itself.
Thus, saying "Well, The Creation Trio and The Lake Trio had types before the plates", I mean, yes, obviously. They are literally just a smaller piece of the creator of all types, Arceus, who became the plates. It's not a contradiction.
True Form Arceus should not lose its ability to use all moves and abilities, since all Pokemon are just parts of him. Furthermore, the plates themselves should also not lose said capability, because they are just Arceus.
False. They are shards of the universe.You are incorrect.
It means "The essence of all creation" in a literal sense. They are just shards of the creator of all existence after all.
Not really. It just confirms that Palki, Dialga, and Lake Trio are made from Arceus's power. They are still indepedent creatures with a will of their own, and will even defy and disagree with Arceus.This already confirms that Palkia, Dialga and the Lake Trio are nothing but smaller parts of Arceus itself.
Thus, Arceus is actually the entire Universe, reality, and all Pokemon.
They're still independent of Arceus as I said before. And canonically, they can learn moves that Arceus, cannot so some of their powers are indepdent of Arceus and their own. Arceus does scale them, that's true.They are all smaller parts of the Original One, thus, this already gives us a reason to make True Arceus scale to them, since they are it.
It does when you're trying to claim that because Arceus gets all the powers, abilities, and movesetes of every pokemon in existence and concurrently. You don't have enough evidence for that. All you have is Arceus created the universe and made concepts of time and space, and spirt which double as pokemon.There isn't the need for the lore to go out of its way to showcase Arceus doing literally everything to satisfy the burden of proof. There is no anti-feat.
'Well, Arceus can't learn the TM Focus Punch'.
Let's look at this dialogue in Pokemon Platinum.
⠀⠀— Hiker
- "A Pokémon is said to have shaped this world. Could that Pokémon be the physical form of the original spirit?"
Implying that the Arceus we see in game is just a physical manifestation of the Original One, an Avatar. So Arceus not learning a TM isn't an Anti Feat for the Original One, but only it's Avatar.
⠀⠀— Hiker's Book
- "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came. When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate. The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate. Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One. Three beings were born to bind time and space. Two make matter, and three make spirit, shaping the world."
So, yeah, Arceus' shards became the plates. They are stated to be part of Arceus' Body.
⠀⠀— Hiker's Book (Japanese Version)
- "生まれてくる ポケモン プレートの力 わけあたえられるPokémon born with the power of the plate."
Pokemon are born with the power of the plates, which are just Arceus itself.
Thus, saying "Well, The Creation Trio and The Lake Trio had types before the plates", I mean, yes, obviously. They are literally just a smaller piece of the creator of all types, Arceus, who became the plates. It's not a contradiction.
True Form Arceus has it from the Avatar. Once the plates are fixed, you can make CRT thread to give True Arceus the ability to use all the moves and abilities.True Form Arceus should not lose its ability to use all moves and abilities, since all Pokemon are just parts of him. Furthermore, the plates themselves should also not lose said capability, because they are just Arceus.
It does not. The Original One is the spirit, Arceus the Pokemon is the physical manifestation of said spirit as stated by the Hiker.The Creation Story talks about Arceus the Pokémon. His True Form has 0 relationships with the Plates
So in the end, His Avatar should be the one getting all the powers
It's made explicitly clear that he has all abilities. That's why I made the Plates Profile. Which will be accepted sooner or laterAlso it's really funny cause the profile lists all the good abilities but failed to put Truant, Slow Start, and Defeatist. Like it was so blatant.
So we should put those abilities in his weaknesses then?It's made explicitly clear that he has all abilities. That's why I made the Plates Profile. Which will be accepted sooner or later
The Creator of the universe is Arceus the Pokemon. Everything that happened since egg is his avatar.It does not. The Original One is the spirit, Arceus the Pokemon is the physical manifestation of said spirit as stated by the Hiker.
We would not.So we should put those abilities in his weaknesses then?
"The shards of the universe became the plates" makes zero sense, the universe doesn't turn into the plates.False. They are shards of the universe.
"From Arceus' power",Not really. It just confirms that Palki, Dialga, and Lake Trio are made from Arceus's power. They are still indepedent creatures with a will of their own, and will even defy and disagree with Arceus.
Not at all.What you posted says none of that. That's just your speculation.
"Canonically"????? Brother, In-Game Arceus is just an Avatar.They're still independent of Arceus as I said before. And canonically, they can learn moves that Arceus, cannot so some of their powers are indepdent of Arceus and their own. Arceus does scale them, that's true.
I do. I literally proved that all of creation is nothing but an extension of True Arceus itself.It does when you're trying to claim that because Arceus gets all the powers, abilities, and movesetes of every pokemon in existence and concurrently. You don't have enough evidence for that. All you have is Arceus created the universe and made concepts of time and space, and spirt which double as pokemon.
Arceus is the entire environment, Arceus is literally everything. Please get that through your head already.No where in the story does it say it created the rest of the pokemon. Especially when we know pokemon organically come into existence on their own based on the environment.
If you're talking about Avatar Arceus, yeah, sure.Well considering that the plates are listed under Arceus, you should agree with me, that it's not supported that Arceus to be able to use every move, when its shown that he can't. Have every abliity, when it's only shown that he has one, and no others. (excluding the specific three from Pokemon Conquest). And shouldn't have the powers of every pokemon and non-pokemon that aren't specific moves or abilities.
You do realize that claiming that the plates are the shards of the universe they are in doesn't make any logical sense, right?You can argue for the Origin One in another thread.
What you posted doesn't say that Arceus is the universe, and it says that plates are the shards of the universe, not Arceus.
Oh, pardon.Also that image you posted is blank. Can you repost it?
Check the link. Also, Japanese > English.I need you the post the entire context of that post. Where is it from? The entire paragraph and section. And what is the official english translation of that line.
It does, it's just you misinterpreting the quote.Nothing you posted says Arceus became the plates. Also, the plates are imbued with the Power of the Giants, so it's not just Arceus's power that's in them.
It is a contradiction.
If the Giants are created and part of Arceus, that's just irrelevant.The Creation and Lake Trio had types before the plates existed. The plates were created from the universe in imbued with the power of the giant and arceus. If pokemon get their power from the plate, that means they also get their power from the Giants and not just Arceus. If Arceus and Giants power is needed to give pokemon their power, how did the Creation Trio and Lake Trio have their powers in the first place?
"Or we just ignore what's been stated because it's inconvenient".Or. The Plates don't give pokemon their power and that contradiction gets solved.
Arceus is the plates.True Form Arceus has it from the Avatar. Once the plates are fixed, you can make CRT thread to give True Arceus the ability to use all the moves and abilities.
The creator of the universe is the original one. You're just incorrect.The Creator of the universe is Arceus the Pokemon. Everything that happened since egg is his avatar.
This spirit contained within itself time and space, and all forms of human consciousness and Pokémon were one in this spirit.
Arceus has all the abilities in the verse except the ones that you decide?We would not.
Okay and ?? That's what it says."The shards of the universe became the plates" makes zero sense, the universe doesn't turn into the plates.
Okay. You're right. It made him from itself. I will correct myself with that."From Arceus' power",
the statement says Arceus makes them from itself. Not from its power. You're actually making false claims, it's hilarious.
They are not the embodiment of all creation. They are space and time respectively.Not at all.
Arceus' true form is composed Palkia and Dialga who are the embodiment of all creation. Literally read the entire argument.
The plates are written on the Avatar's slide."Canonically"????? Brother, In-Game Arceus is just an Avatar.
Do you read the entire thing before replying? They are not independent from the original one, and their will are created by Arceus (Lake Trio).
Your comebacks are actually ridiculous, you depend so much on Avatar Arceus it's hilarious, even though I make a very clear distinction between the two.
No you haven't.I do. I literally proved that all of creation is nothing but an extension of True Arceus itself.
It literally does not say all of Creation is Arceus's pieces.The lore DOES NOT need to showcase Arceus doing literally everything. It does NOT. If it claims all of creation is just Arceus' pieces, then Arceus can do everything its creation can. You need to prove otherwise.
Prove it please. A character being omnipresent isn't justification that they embody everything and all things are apart of them. Nice try though.Arceus is the entire environment, Arceus is literally everything. Please get that through your head already.
Good thing this thread is about avatar.If you're talking about Avatar Arceus, yeah, sure.
If you're taking about True Arceus, who we literally never see in game, then no, I don't.
You do realize that claiming that the plates are the shards of the universe they are in doesn't make any logical sense, right?
This contradicts everything, as it says the plates were created by humans who stole arceus's power. If you want to use that lore version, then we can. It still in no way justifies that the plates are the source of every move, ability, and power in the franchise.Oh, pardon.
Here
Yeah. I did. Its an entire page. What section is the line from?Check the link. Also, Japanese > English.
Nothing says the giants are part of Arceus and nothing says that the plates are Arceus from the game lore.It does, it's just you misinterpreting the quote.
Whoever the giants are, they are just part of Arceus.
If the Giants are created and part of Arceus, that's just irrelevant.
The plates are created by Arceus.
The Creation/Lake Trio are created by Arceus.
The Giants are created by Arceus or some adjacent creature who was created by Arceus.
It is literally not a contradiction, all of them come from the same source.
I mean, there is zero statements that say that plates give pokemon thier power."Or we just ignore what's been stated because it's inconvenient".
Funny. Humorous. But no.
The plates are made from the shards from the universe. OR from power stolen from Arceus by the humans if you go by pokemon adventures. Either interpretation, there is nothing that states all pokemon get their power from the plates.Arceus is the plates.
Why not?We would not.
He’s just conceded Arceus doesn’t have every ability in the verse, he’s invalidated his own interpretation of his evidence…Why not?
Arceus has every ability except the ones that will make him lose every vs battle. U.U.He’s just conceded Arceus doesn’t have every ability in the verse, he’s invalidated his own interpretation of his evidence…
Yeah, that's an obvious example of cherrypicking things to your favour and ignoring anything that could be against yourself.Arceus has every ability except the ones that will make him lose every vs battle. U.U.
i can post an image of Arceus being held down by a crobat and a few other pokemon if you want.Btw, If you seriously think arceus not learning focus punch or some shit goes against the plates literally having the power of all things, you are agreeing with the same balancing that allows arceus to be beaten by a eevee, both are contradicted by showings and lore.
and next you're gonna bring up the meteor OH BOYi can post an image of Arceus being held down by a crobat and a few other pokemon if you want.
Actually that' a good point.and next you're gonna bring up the meteor OH BOY
I can call a mod to close this thread.i can post an image of Arceus being held down by a crobat and a few other pokemon if you want.
In the same movie. He compressed stars/galaxies unto himself in his "weakened" stateActually that' a good point.
When Arceus's loses his plates, his powers become limited and can't use the types of the plates he's missing.
Because he separated the powers from himself and placed them into plates. That still doesn't contradict the fact that the plates are fragments of himself. Which is why he's the only one who can absorb the plates into himselfIf the plates give pokemon their typings, powers, and abilities, why does Arceus lose those powers? He should be able to remotely draw power from the plates like all pokemon do.
You didn’t answer my question. If all pokemon remotely draw power from the plates, why can’t arceus do the same when the plates aren’t with him?Because he separated the powers from himself and placed them into plates. That still doesn't contradict the fact that the plates are fragments of himself. Which is why he's the only one who can absorb the plates into himself
After reading the thread and the discussions in the previous pages, all I can do, at this point, is suggest reading the following pages: Game mechanics, Pokémon canon.
And yes, I disagree with the OP.
I just went back and saw the film.In the same movie. He compressed stars/galaxies unto himself in his "weakened" state
In fact at the end of the movie, he reversed the crumbling of the ruins.
All the staff agree with it dude.OK. In the end, what you said is irrelevant to the main op, which is largely disagreed on
So your crt ended up being meaningless
Call a mod to close it
Ok. I hope you have Immortality type 1, because this is going to be a long wait to get this crt anywhere but the guttersAll the staff agree with it dude.
Thanks for miscounting Mori and Cal who do not agree with your points but instead for entirely different reasons not related to this CRT.Please just let me do it, your messing up the links and aren't counting up the people correctly.
That's false. Disagree CLEARLY out vote agreeThanks for miscounting Mori and Cal who do not agree with your points but instead for entirely different reasons not related to this CRT.
Yes, agree does outvote disagree because of all staff votes on the basis of this CRT.
They agree the reasonings of the plates is not enough and flawed. Which is what this crt is aboutalso when did yemma miscount anything? He just wrote that they disagreed with the OP which they absolutely did.
Oh my f*king God. Things written directly on the plates isn't enough? What is enough for @Iamunanimousinthat about Pokémon btw?They agree the reasonings of the plates is not enough and flawed. Which is what this crt is about
You’re literally the one who told me to make this threadBring this nonsense behavior of yours in the plate crt I've made
They actually agreed with the OP that the evidence for Plates were too flimsy, but agree that Reverie is good enough to give Arceus all pokemon powers, however that is not what this CRT is about. I can ask them again if you want.also when did yemma miscount anything? He just wrote that they disagreed with the OP which they absolutely did.
stop antagonizing the opponent if you don't want people to start sympathy voting for them.I guess, I also told you to spam an important staff crt as well too lol
I won't be surprised if the Transduality crt was made because of Arceus.
A very silly behavior if you ask me. Just get something better doing will ya