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I can tell you this much, theres still things on it that I have to weigh in as some stuff being thrown out im against. But thats a discussion for another day.
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Pokémon 5-B Downgrade (I'm really sorry)
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
- Start date
- Status
- 15,439
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- Thread starter
- #82
Now, we'll have to tell if that was actually the Earth that was destroyed in manga or not, because it may just be an error in drawing, since even there the whole Earth was in danger as Kukui said
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Basically this.
The only actual basis for it only being surface wiping to work with here is that we assume the small tid-bit at the pottom of the manga panel post-meteor crash is the remainder of the planet.
But there's nothing actually proving specifically that its the planet with its surface wiped clean off as opposed to another planet, or, a celestial body like the moon.
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Ok I'm going to be completely honest until the canon debacle is addressed, Pokémon CRTs should be put on hold or at least restricted to a set number (there's literally 5 ongoing right now) making upgrades/downgrades to a major verse where the legitimacy/priority of the canon is still called into question, is only going to lead to more headaches in the future.
I've said my peace on this CRT, I'm outta here!
I've said my peace on this CRT, I'm outta here!
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This thread has been fairly fine so far compared to what could be worse and the canon debate has little relevance here since both the games and manga are undoubtedly accepted no matter what.
So we can still discuss and decide what to do here.
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- Thread starter
- #87
Except that we all already did? We already explained in the another thread how is actually right, and you literally said and spammed just "no" without a valid reason at all.
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Except nothing dude, pay attention. He didn't expalin shit. He only said that the calc can be used. Since you can't defend your own calc and always uses other people's stuff to support it (rather than your own arguments), I'll wait for Cal, and would like that you only answer if you have a solid argument defending KE.
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Execpt...he did?
"I looked at the original thread. Nothing is wrong with the KE based calc from the original. Whoever gave the idea that we don’t assume timeframes for these kinds of things is outright wrong since we’ve done this forever. This isn’t even a Pokemon issue, but a comic/manga issue in general if you wanna revise standards, as this applies to more than just planet busting."
"Yeah after coming back from the thread in question, nothing is problematic here. Strym’s first calc is fine and the reasons for it being a no-go dont work as they violate reasonable assumptions we’ve been making for years."
And from the planetary KE thread:
"We’ve assumed timeframes for these kinds of things since literally ever. Nothing against Strym for making this thread but whoever told him that we didn’t is very wrong."
"Impossible because that’s not how KE works. Something moves, something has KE. That’s it."
^Goes on from there. All from Cal.
See above. He didnt. He said he can be used and gave reasons for it. It goes against reasonable assumptions we've been doing for quite a long time.
"Who' gives the arguments doesnt matter. What matters is that its given, and it has. But Cal replying again would be preferable.
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- Thread starter
- #92
How I couldn't defend the calc if you always dodged and said just "no" or "is vague", ignoring A N Y T H I N G which debunks your arguments?
Regardless, I've already explained how is KE
You can see at the central panel the pieces of the planet surface being all shattered, and in the next one stopping, a time frame and a distance can erfectly be assumed and measured, only you find these issues
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Nothing about KE, he did not explain why it can be used.
He simply said that the calc is fine and that's all
Where are the argument to allow KE?
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So does this debate boil down to whether or not the meteor was planet busting or surface wiping?
Wish I think anything about this series whatsoever lol
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Cal also said this regarding the whole "Not all the debris travel the same distance at the same speed" argument:
"The problem is that nine times out of ten, the pieces would move at the same speed. The farther pieces can’t travel faster. That’s not how physics works as things get less powerful the farther it reaches. Again, unless contradicted, assuming a stagnant speed value is quite understandable."
"The problem is that nine times out of ten, the pieces would move at the same speed. The farther pieces can’t travel faster. That’s not how physics works as things get less powerful the farther it reaches. Again, unless contradicted, assuming a stagnant speed value is quite understandable."
- 15,439
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- Thread starter
- #97
In short, yes
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Because it's vague dude. Stop thinking about upgrading Pokémon and THINK about what are you doing. you're using a "break the world forever" statement AND YOU THINK THAT'S A 5-B STATEMENT. You're using Kyogre's overtime destruction and you think that's a 5-B feat even if overtime, but it's nowhere said that is able to destroy the planet, but he is gonna sink it. Jesus Christ, pay more attention.
Yeah yeah same arguments that got debunked. In the very same scan you see pieces closer to "Earth" and some of them far away from the others. Different distances, different speeds. Not realible enough to use KE.
Useless, not about KE.
Indeed, something moved, something has KE. When something moves the same distance, the whole thing has the same KE. Not what happened here. Cal was very ignorant on that one. Omnidirecional KE, all pieces should move the same distance, and that's not what happened.
I don't even know from where he took that "things gets less powerful the farther it reaches", since with more distance and the same timeframe, the speed would be higher, and so would KE. And yes, the farther pieces CAN and WILL move faster than the other pieces. We get a scan of the exact moment of the feat, and we see debris farther from the center than others. It's simple: You can't prove that all pieces moved the same distance here,
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Yeah, and they reject that, and I'm trying to explain why it was rejected.
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Not really. Since we are seeing an omnidirecional explosion, we can tell that pieces are farther away than others becauze it's a circle, it has no angle issues. Check the scan again and you'll see the debris closer to the Earth.
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Going to correct you here. He isnt using this feat and no one else is for that matter. I pointed this out prior on why its to stop being mentioned.
Different distances does not mean they are moving at different speeds, its entirely possible for something farther away to move at the same constant speed as something else. Which was Cal's point on speed being constant.
See above, it doesn't. You dont need to be right next to something in order for both to travel the same exact distance.
Uh because normally when energy travels a distance, it dissapates the more it moves?
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Yeaaaaah no. We're not talking about the circle here, we're talking about the scan beneath it where the debris has stopped moving, in that scan in the middle where a big explosion occurs, that's just the explosion still going on, the actual scan where it stops is right below it where they say "The Earth won't withstand its impact" and shit.
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Yes, if you apply different timeframes too. I moved 2 meters in 0.5 seconds and got a 4 m/s speed. For you to get the same speed, moving a different distance, you'd need a different timeframe. You moved 8 meters, then you need 2 seconds to get the same speed.
The calc does not account with that, if it does now, then you agree with me that the KE used before is wack, since you'd need different timeframes.
Do you even know what are you talking about? Energy is different, that's KE. The farther the thing goes, higher is the KE if the timeframe is constant, and that's what was assumed.
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Don't worry. What's in the past is behind us (idk if that's the saying but you get the idea)
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And that's why you can't use the calc lmfao, that's not how this kind of feat works
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Oooh, we take the lowest one? Then why didn't you used the lowest distance here? You already said it: different distances, but you're using only one timeframe. It means that the speed of some debris are higher, aka KE can't be used. If you actually use different timeframes and different distances, you can use KE for sure.
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- Thread starter
- #116
Same lmao
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Cal should also come by again to give any counter thoughts against it (if he has any issues with it)
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I...I am a calc group member tho. Or at least I’m an ex calc group member, by my own volition.
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Ah, yeah, forgot.
- Status
