Planetary tournament 5-B bracket FINALS goku vs mori jin

[Kflare63]

•Speed is equalized
•Namek saga goku will be used
•Ragnorock Arc mori jin will be used (but won't have access to anything above 5-B)
•there will be little to no prior knowledge
•battle takes place in "mandatus" (madness project nexus)

Goku:2(shadyboi0, FluffyCreatureZ)

Mori jin:7(sir_ovens,nierre,bernkastel,sonicflare9,anosvoldigoad314,greatsage13th,yoloninja3000)

Incon:

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

One shot gg

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

One shot gg

What's gokus' AP?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What's gokus' AP?

>>>>>>>>>>>>79 zettatons, higher with kaioken.

 

[Blahblah9755]

How much Kaioken does this key have?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

How much Kaioken does this key have?

4x to 10x but he doesn't need it.

 

[Kflare63]

If it's done and said goku wins this tournament?

 

[Blahblah9755]

If it's done and said goku wins this tournament?

Give me a moment, there hasn’t been a proper discussion yet.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

If it's done and said goku wins this tournament?

yeah pretty much, kaioken is vastly above in numbers and this Goku still has skill for his edge.

 

[Blahblah9755]

So first off, Jin isn’t just baseline but he does scale up from baseline.

The baseline feat is something he survived in base of a previous key while completely exhausted of all his stamina an injured. He then became far stronger than that over the course of several days of training (Keep in mind this is a guy with accelerated development and reactive power level good enough to close an 8x stat gap over the course of a fight and the training he did in this time took his monkey king form from 5-B to 4-C, so this training has an incredible but unquantifiably high impact on him), and became stronger still in further fights during Ragnarok.

Now, with martial arts Jin is able to drastically amp his stats further (early on this took him from 8-C to 8-B and it’s generally shown to let him endure hits from and easily one shot opponents enough stronger than him that it’s considered impossible for him to beat them), and this isn’t only with specific abilities, it’s by kicking, punching, moving, standing, blocking, and taking hits with proper technique.

He then also has the Jaehbongchim and no pain techniques, the first of which releases his body’s limiters to apply a stat multiplier to AP, durability, and speed (at least up to 16x in base) and the latter of which removes the sense of pain to both let you fight while injured and remove the limiters placed on your body through pain to make you even stronger.

So Jin is similarly vastly beyond his baseline feat, and with max multipliers scales above the higher number (16x baseline vs 13x baseline). He can also generally sense or judge how strong an opponent is, and will go into the necessary stat amps immediately against a significantly stronger opponent.
In terms of skill, when he was far less skilled and while injured enough that any hit should have knocked him out he beat a guy and his 100 clones, who were each faster than Jin; in this key he fought someone who had copied all his techniques had thousands of years of combat experience and was actively reading his mind, and Jin’s actions were so adaptable that he was even able to catch him off guard; throughout the series he could instantly copy and improve on martial techniques, as well as take the concepts of one technique and apply them elsewhere in other techniques with completely different stances, limbs, motions, and equipment.

Jin has analytical prediction good enough to fully evade the attacks of two highly skilled fighters while having no sense of balance and heavily impaired sight. He can also predict someone’s next action well in advance by reading muscle movements.

He also has instinctive reaction that was able to let him barely avoid having his pressure point hit by someone over a thousand times faster than him from behind, and has allowed him to block, dodge, and counter attacks from people faster than him.

I briefly mentioned his accelerated development earlier, but it’s good enough that over the course of a fight he went from needing an 8x boost in AP, durability, and speed to face someone to being able to do it in base.

He also has techniques that can do things like create shockwaves that mess someone’s sense of balance up so badly they can’t stand up, hit pressure points that put them in enough pain to make them collapse, and or use kick three times faster than an opponent who was faster than him could react while directly damaging their brain.

Jin outclasses in lifting strength, so immobilizing Goku with a hold and choking is an option, as is placing Yeoui on him, which requires both class P LS and supernatural willpower to lift. The latter of these is something he does in character on occasion.
Jin outclasses in lifting strength, so immobilizing Goku with a hold and choking is an option, as is incapacitating by placing Yeoui on him, which requires both class P LS and supernatural willpower to lift.

So, overall Jin’s AP shouldn’t be lower than Goku’s by much if it is and Goku will likely struggle to land a hit, and Jin has a massive edge in skill and a couple of ways to take him down without needing the AP edge.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Kiai?

 

[Blahblah9755]

Kiai?

Are you asking how Jin will handle the range advantage or something else?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So first off, Jin isn’t just baseline but he does scale up from baseline.

The baseline feat is something he survived in base of a previous key while completely exhausted of all his stamina an injured. He then became far stronger than that over the course of several days of training (Keep in mind this is a guy with accelerated development and reactive power level good enough to close an 8x stat gap over the course of a fight and the training he did in this time took his monkey king form from 5-B to 4-C, so this training has an incredible but unquantifiably high impact on him), and became stronger still in further fights during Ragnarok.

Now, with martial arts Jin is able to drastically amp his stats further (early on this took him from 8-C to 8-B and it’s generally shown to let him endure hits from and easily one shot opponents enough stronger than him that it’s considered impossible for him to beat them), and this isn’t only with specific abilities, it’s by kicking, punching, moving, standing, blocking, and taking hits with proper technique.

He then also has the Jaehbongchim and no pain techniques, the first of which releases his body’s limiters to apply a stat multiplier to AP, durability, and speed (at least up to 16x in base) and the latter of which removes the sense of pain to both let you fight while injured and remove the limiters placed on your body through pain to make you even stronger.

So Jin is similarly vastly beyond his baseline feat, and with max multipliers scales above the higher number (16x baseline vs 13x baseline). He can also generally sense or judge how strong an opponent is, and will go into the necessary stat amps immediately against a significantly stronger opponent.
In terms of skill, when he was far less skilled and while injured enough that any hit should have knocked him out he beat a guy and his 100 clones, who were each faster than Jin; in this key he fought someone who had copied all his techniques had thousands of years of combat experience and was actively reading his mind, and Jin’s actions were so adaptable that he was even able to catch him off guard; throughout the series he could instantly copy and improve on martial techniques, as well as take the concepts of one technique and apply them elsewhere in other techniques with completely different stances, limbs, motions, and equipment.

Jin has analytical prediction good enough to fully evade the attacks of two highly skilled fighters while having no sense of balance and heavily impaired sight. He can also predict someone’s next action well in advance by reading muscle movements.

He also has instinctive reaction that was able to let him barely avoid having his pressure point hit by someone over a thousand times faster than him from behind, and has allowed him to block, dodge, and counter attacks from people faster than him.

I briefly mentioned his accelerated development earlier, but it’s good enough that over the course of a fight he went from needing an 8x boost in AP, durability, and speed to face someone to being able to do it in base.

He also has techniques that can do things like create shockwaves that mess someone’s sense of balance up so badly they can’t stand up, hit pressure points that put them in enough pain to make them collapse, and or use kick three times faster than an opponent who was faster than him could react while directly damaging their brain.

Jin outclasses in lifting strength, so immobilizing Goku with a hold and choking is an option, as is placing Yeoui on him, which requires both class P LS and supernatural willpower to lift. The latter of these is something he does in character on occasion.
Jin outclasses in lifting strength, so immobilizing Goku with a hold and choking is an option, as is incapacitating by placing Yeoui on him, which requires both class P LS and supernatural willpower to lift.

So, overall Jin’s AP shouldn’t be lower than Goku’s by much if it is and Goku will likely struggle to land a hit, and Jin has a massive edge in skill and a couple of ways to take him down without needing the AP edge.

Cool.
79 zettatons is still above mori jin's baseline with a lot of upscaling by 1.3x, then add on Goku's own scaling chain and it starts looking like this.
Baseline = Vegeta < Cui << dodoria < zarbon <<< vegeta = k3 Goku <<< Monster zarbon <<< vegeta < kk4 Goku (79 zettatons) <<< recoome < jeice ~ burter <<< Goku. So Goku would still one shot in base form.
Goku's saiyan reactive power level has feats of amping 50x times over the course of a fight scaling to himself and other saiyans.
The jaebonkjunk 16x amp makes him solar system level in this key which the OP restricted I think.
Same with Goku he can identify strong and capable fighters at a mere glance and can also sense power differences.
Now those are some awesome skill feats.
But Goku is more skilled. I can't really go into Goku's countless skill feats explicitly but I do do that in this thread so just read this.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/monkey-kid-fights-orc.128498/
Just to give you an idea. Goku can copy any technique by seeing it even if the techniques take years for even the most capable master martial artist to learn and he improves on them, Goku also has a stupidly long scaling chain of just stomping master martial artists, it looks something like Goku skill stomping his previous self which skill stomps his previous self whom skill stomps his previous self who outskills dudes like korin with 800 years of experience who is able to consistently not get tagged by Goku's earlier self for 3 days straight and not get tagged by roshi consistently for 3 years, roshi the dude who bodies entire armies like Goku (and who a very early Goku matched) and skill stomps master martial artists like king chappa who skill stomps master martial artists where in the tournament he wins twice without getting tagged once and who's attacks are described as 8 simultaneous attacks despite only being 2.
Goku's is also an extremely analytical fighter, he is able to get out of impossible to win situations and adapt to and create new techniques on the spot or improve his techniques for the situation he's in. And he's also able to look ahead into the fight and predict what will and won't work, he's able predict fighters next moves with just instinct or know when someone is holding back or when someone is really skilled ot powerful.
Blah blah blah just go read I have said too much basically Goku is more skilled.
Fair points on analytical prediction and instinctive reaction, Goku has similar feats and even better but they are later in super not Z.
Goku's reactive PL is even better than moro jins.
Goku can handle pain and durability negation fine. Man can fight while literally crippled.
Fair point on LS, that's a good win condition.
Goku won't struggle landing a hit since even with mori jins UI and analytical prediction, he can't dodge a kiai which will one shot basically since he is at the AP disadvantage.
Finish.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Cool.
79 zettatons is still above mori jin's baseline with a lot of upscaling by 1.3x, then add on Goku's own scaling chain and it starts looking like this.
Baseline = Vegeta < Cui << dodoria < zarbon <<< vegeta = k3 Goku <<< Monster zarbon <<< vegeta < kk4 Goku (79 zettatons) <<< recoome < jeice ~ burter <<< Goku. So Goku would still one shot in base form.
Goku's saiyan reactive power level has feats of amping 50x times over the course of a fight scaling to himself and other saiyans.
The jaebonkjunk 16x amp makes him solar system level in this key which the OP restricted I think.
Same with Goku he can identify strong and capable fighters at a mere glance and can also sense power differences.
Now those are some awesome skill feats.
But Goku is more skilled. I can't really go into Goku's countless skill feats explicitly but I do do that in this thread so just read this.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/monkey-kid-fights-orc.128498/
Just to give you an idea. Goku can copy any technique by seeing it even if the techniques take years for even the most capable master martial artist to learn and he improves on them, Goku also has a stupidly long scaling chain of just stomping master martial artists, it looks something like Goku skill stomping his previous self which skill stomps his previous self whom skill stomps his previous self who outskills dudes like korin with 800 years of experience who is able to consistently not get tagged by Goku's earlier self for 3 days straight and not get tagged by roshi consistently for 3 years, roshi the dude who bodies entire armies like Goku (and who a very early Goku matched) and skill stomps master martial artists like king chappa who skill stomps master martial artists where in the tournament he wins twice without getting tagged once and who's attacks are described as 8 simultaneous attacks despite only being 2.
Goku's is also an extremely analytical fighter, he is able to get out of impossible to win situations and adapt to and create new techniques on the spot or improve his techniques for the situation he's in. And he's also able to look ahead into the fight and predict what will and won't work, he's able predict fighters next moves with just instinct or know when someone is holding back or when someone is really skilled ot powerful.
Blah blah blah just go read I have said too much basically Goku is more skilled.
Fair points on analytical prediction and instinctive reaction, Goku has similar feats and even better but they are later in super not Z.
Goku's reactive PL is even better than moro jins.
Goku can handle pain and durability negation fine. Man can fight while literally crippled.
Fair point on LS, that's a good win condition.
Goku won't struggle landing a hit since even with mori jins UI and analytical prediction, he can't dodge a kiai which will one shot basically since he is at the AP disadvantage.
Finish.

Yea, no in terms of martial arts Mori is on more edge than goku since goku mostly uses ki and he still uses martial arts but lesser

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yea, no in terms of martial arts Mori is on more edge than goku since goku mostly uses ki and he still uses martial arts but lesser

No. Original dragon ball Goku uses these hands and only ever uses a kamehameha which is rarely and that's where all his most important skill feats come from. Using ki is not an argument when Goku's skill feats are better.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

No. Original dragon ball Goku uses these hands and only ever uses a kamehameha which is rarely and that's where all his most important skill feats come from. Using ki is not an argument when Goku's skill feats are better.

Mori's skill feat is literally better he is shown to copy every martial art he sees while goku isn't. And in these he literally defeated some gods who has a thousand years not just hundred. And someone can read he's mind and copy too. so no goku's not edge at skill, mori is

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Mori's skill feat is literally better he is shown to copy every martial art he sees while goku isn't. And in these he literally defeated some gods who has a thousand years not just hundred. And someone can read he's mind and copy too. so no goku's not edge at skill, mori is

Oh wow he copied techniques, not like Goku's ever copied techniques before. Goku learned the kamehameha by seeing it once, a feat that took roshi, a master martial artist and the best in the world, 50 years to learn, Goku also copied the after image from Jackie the first time he saw it, copied jackie's double after image and improved it to a triple, improved the after image from 1 to 8 after images. Inproved on the kamehameha and used it in many creative applications such as using it with his feet, using it to propel himself and used it in a way to mimic yamcha's sokidan. Immediately look for and found a counter to tiens solar flare and then mimicked it and made it his own and countered tiens counter to the solar flare by exploiting his weakness. Shall I go on?
Experience is good but it's not everything, feats are more important, look at Goku, he's 15 and outskilled korin who has 800 years of experience.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Oh wow he copied techniques, not like Goku's ever copied techniques before. Goku learned the kamehameha by seeing it once, a feat that took roshi, a master martial artist and the best in the world, 50 years to learn, Goku also copied the after image from Jackie the first time he saw it, copied jackie's double after image and improved it to a triple, improved the after image from 1 to 8 after images. Inproved on the kamehameha and used it in many creative applications such as using it with his feet, using it to propel himself and used it in a way to mimic yamcha's sokidan. Immediately look for and found a counter to tiens solar flare and then mimicked it and made it his own and countered tiens counter to the solar flare by exploiting his weakness. Shall I go on?
Experience is good but it's not everything, feats are more important, look at Goku, he's 15 and outskilled korin who has 800 years of experience.

Dude mori defeated a guy who has a HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS and he even learned martial arts as a baby? and He even defeated some who can copy his martial arts and improved too. so wtf are you saying? Mori could do anything martial arts go goku does and apply it to or combine it to his other moves.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Dude mori defeated a guy who has a HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS and he even learned martial arts as a baby? and He even defeated some who can copy his martial arts and improved too. so wtf are you saying? Mori could do anything martial arts go goku does and apply it to or combine it to his other moves.

Which is it now? Thousands or hundreds of thousands? Yes actually Goku learned martial arts from son gohan when he was a toddler. So did Goku, tien literally could copy all his moves and Goku still outskilled him.
Son Goku will copy mori jin copying his martial arts then outskill mori while he's using his own techniques.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Which is it now? Thousands or hundreds of thousands? Yes actually Goku learned martial arts from son gohan when he was a toddler. So did Goku, tien literally could copy all his moves and Goku still outskilled him.
Son Goku will copy mori jin copying his martial arts then outskill mori while he's using his own techniques.

I forgot how old satan is and the other gods. No, goku will not outskill and if you compare the one that mori defeated that who could copy skills tien doesn't even compare a single shit to him. So no goku do not outskill mori and tien isn't even comparable to the one that mori defeated. I'm not gonna reply anymore since not anyone goku defeated in Z when he was a kid is compareable to the one that mori deafeated in this key.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I forgot how old satan is and the other gods. No, goku will not outskill and if you compare the one that mori defeated that who could copy skills tien doesn't even compare a single shit to him. So no goku do not outskill mori and tien isn't even comparable to the one that mori defeated. I'm not gonna reply anymore since not anyone goku defeated in Z when he was a kid is compareable to the one that mori deafeated in this key.

Yeah tien doesn't compare he probably outskills all of them too lol. Anyway like I said before, age doesn't matter so much if it's not supported by feats, you need actual experience and even that meeds to be backed up, so far you haven't given any feats that are better than what Goku can do. But I'm not downplaying, this mori jin guy really is skilled, blahblah man actually gave brilliant skill feats.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Yeah tien doesn't compare he probably outskills all of them too lol. Anyway like I said before, age doesn't matter so much if it's not supported by feats, you need actual experience and even that meeds to be backed up, so far you haven't given any feats that are better than what Goku can do. But I'm not downplaying, this mori jin guy really is skilled, blahblah man actually gave brilliant skill feats.

Lol no tien even that skilled

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Yeah tien doesn't compare he probably outskills all of them too lol. Anyway like I said before, age doesn't matter so much if it's not supported by feats, you need actual experience and even that meeds to be backed up, so far you haven't given any feats that are better than what Goku can do. But I'm not downplaying, this mori jin guy really is skilled, blahblah man actually gave brilliant skill feats.

And lol it's all by feats not by wank

 

[Kflare63]

What's mori's AP again?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What's mori's AP again?

A bunch of scaling above baseline but blshblah claims he can amp 16x but I'm not sure about that because his amp, the jaebonkjunk or whatever, is solar system level which is restricted.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

What's mori's AP again?

59.5 zettatons by average planet destruction GBE, then Goku scales above 79 zettatons and higher via kaioken.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Carrot fra

 

[Kflare63]

Bump

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

I do think this is close enough, Goku should be able to handle Jin off for case he opts for hand-to-hand combat and amplify himself via KK to give a finish time event.

leaning to vote towards Goku but I will wait for people to give more checks about this.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Goku can't break Yeoui, which has 4-B dura and definitely lacks the LS to carry it. Mori is pretty adept at using it to defend himself and if worse comes to worst he can just drop it on Goku. We're talking about a man who defeated someone with 4-C dura as a 5-B with careful tactics and clone abuse. Goku is not even close to the level of instinctive reactions and martial arts that Mori is on and will most certainly be bested by acupuncture. To top it all off, Mori can just seal Goku in the gourd if he's being overwhelmed.

Overall, Mori has way more advantages than Goku.

 

[Kflare63]

Doesn't he have that mainly in monkey king mode? (which is restricted btw)

 

[DemonicDude]

Tournament brackets ?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

He still has Yeoui and the gourd in base tho. And he's shown using Yeoui against the 7th Master.

 

[Kflare63]

Tournament brackets ?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/planetary-low-hax-tournament.127618/

We still need 5-C, low 5-B, and high 5-A

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Goku can't break Yeoui, which has 4-B dura and definitely lacks the LS to carry it. Mori is pretty adept at using it to defend himself and if worse comes to worst he can just drop it on Goku. We're talking about a man who defeated someone with 4-C dura as a 5-B with careful tactics and clone abuse. Goku is not even close to the level of instinctive reactions and martial arts that Mori is on and will most certainly be bested by acupuncture. To top it all off, Mori can just seal Goku in the gourd if he's being overwhelmed.

Overall, Mori has way more advantages than Goku.

The AP advantage is far too drastic for mori jin to be able to manage anything meaningful. Goku can easily kill him with a kiai. And while it's true that Goku is at a big LS disadvantage, he is the one who outskills here given what I have heard from the earlier guys. And if Goku is ever in trouble, he can boost his speed and blitz with kaioken.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Outskill the guy who countered a martial art made specifically to counter his own and copied the styles of his opponents through sight alone? Also Yeoui can grow to the size of a small moon, Goku will have a very hard time getting around that. Also, AP aside acupuncture negates durability. It will only take a tap or two for Mori to completely immobilise Goku. Again, Mori has way more methods of bringing Goku down without ever needing to touch him.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah Mori has my vote. If we had gone with Mori Dan this match would have been over much sooner.

 

[Kflare63]

Woops deleted my comment before your's loaded

 

[Kflare63]

The AP advantage is far too drastic for mori jin to be able to manage anything meaningful. Goku can easily kill him with a kiai. And while it's true that Goku is at a big LS disadvantage, he is the one who outskills here given what I have heard from the earlier guys. And if Goku is ever in trouble, he can boost his speed and blitz with kaioken.

Is that your vote?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Outskill the guy who countered a martial art made specifically to counter his own and copied the styles of his opponents through sight alone? Also Yeoui can grow to the size of a small moon, Goku will have a very hard time getting around that. Also, AP aside acupuncture negates durability. It will only take a tap or two for Mori to completely immobilise Goku. Again, Mori has way more methods of bringing Goku down without ever needing to touch him.

Yup. Korin who skill stomped roshi (best martial artist in the world and skill stomps other master martial artist with years of experience) and didn't get tagged by him for 3 years, then in just 3 days goku surpassed korin completely. And yes he copies techniques even better. Man saw the kamehameha once then copied it from roshi when he had no concept of ki, a feat which took roshi 50 years. Or that time when he saw tiens 4 arm technique, the he procedded to create 8 arm duplicates using speed and the overwhelm tien who had 4 arms in cqc with 8 arms that were in reality just two. Yoiuouus a problem but Goku can get around it with kaioken and FTL speed or just beat mori jin in one attack before he can use it.
Goku's fought pressure points before and he isn't gonna get tagged by them, man views someone like king chappa as complete fodder, the same guy who skill stomped the entirety of the tenkaichi budokai twice without getting tagged once.

Is that your vote?

Yes, ain't nobody beating Son Goku.