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Monkey kid fights orc
- Thread starter Spinoirr
- Start date
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Which key for Goku?
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Uh... Grimgor quite literally slaughters Goku so hard it isn't even funny lol
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This fight looks awesome.
Grim iron man scales to 7.82 tons while Son Goku massively upscales from 3.72 tons so less than 2.1x advantage for the grim iron man.
Goku has a huge LS advantage but grim iron man definitely has better stamina though Goku's stamina isn't bad either.
Goku has a big range advantage with the power pole and kamehameha.
Grim iron man has regeneration which is a good advantage.
Grim iron man also has reactive power level but this is countered by Goku's own reactive power level which is at least as good if not better.
Goku can also ride the nimbus to have an arial advantage where gim iron man cannot reach.
In terms of skill, I can definitely see a skill debate happen. I can argue that Goku outskills, just going off the intelligence section is usually not enough but the only thing I see grim man having an advantage in is his experience which is over 10000 years but Goku's experience level at this point is only over 800 years. But Goku has so many skill feats of fodderizing master martial artist, instantly learning, copying and improving upon martial arts techniques just by seeing them. He also is extremely skilled in and quick at coming up with strategy's to counter his oppoents on the fly.
So I think Son Goku wins here.
Grim iron man scales to 7.82 tons while Son Goku massively upscales from 3.72 tons so less than 2.1x advantage for the grim iron man.
Goku has a huge LS advantage but grim iron man definitely has better stamina though Goku's stamina isn't bad either.
Goku has a big range advantage with the power pole and kamehameha.
Grim iron man has regeneration which is a good advantage.
Grim iron man also has reactive power level but this is countered by Goku's own reactive power level which is at least as good if not better.
Goku can also ride the nimbus to have an arial advantage where gim iron man cannot reach.
In terms of skill, I can definitely see a skill debate happen. I can argue that Goku outskills, just going off the intelligence section is usually not enough but the only thing I see grim man having an advantage in is his experience which is over 10000 years but Goku's experience level at this point is only over 800 years. But Goku has so many skill feats of fodderizing master martial artist, instantly learning, copying and improving upon martial arts techniques just by seeing them. He also is extremely skilled in and quick at coming up with strategy's to counter his oppoents on the fly.
So I think Son Goku wins here.
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Did you just say, Goku has a skill advantage? Lol. Here's a bombshell buddy.
Grimgor >= Crom the Conqueror > High Elf Lord = Grail Knight Kruber = Vampire Lord = Generic Chaos Champion >= Shade Kerillian > Base Ubersreik V >>> Saurus Warriors = Generic Daemons of Chaos = Generic Black Orcs
At the bottom of the chain are people who can make fodder out of trained soldiers. Saurus Warriors and Temple Guard are no slouches as they are quite literally born with the ability to fight and innate knowledge of Martial Arts and Instinctive Reactions, born and bred solely for the purpose of war. Regular Daemons like Bloodletters have strong Analytical Prediction via Witchsight, and are generally also incredibly strong fighters, especially those like Bloodletters, who spend much of their life killing in the Realm of Chaos. Keep in mind this insane level of skill is only baseline for Warhammer fodder.
Moving up to the Ubersreik Five, they quite literally have killed hundreds of monsters that are superior to the warriors below and are skilled at contending with foes like Chaos Champions, who often gather around hundreds to thousands of years of experience fighting in the Chaos Wastes/Realm of Chaos before they can rise through the ranks.
High Elf Lords and Vampire Lords have the benefit of centuries or even millennia of experience depending on the individual, and are only second to named characters in terms of skill. Killing armies worth of opponents is quite literally Tuesday for the lords of Warhammer, and even then those like Crom and Grimgor fodderize those who fodderize the other heroes below.
Crom himself is Archaon's second, and is logically superior to fellow martial masters in the form of Chaos Champions who fight for long periods of time in the Realm of Chaos, and himself is a user of strong Analytical Prediction via Witchsight, and makes a mockery of even the skilled warriors I've already mentioned. He had everything on paper to stomp Grimgor, yet Grimgor fought him to a standstill.
In short, Grimgor's nearly the cream of the crop in terms of how skilled 1v1 fighters can be in Warhammer, surpassed by only more insane warriors who fodderize even more insane creatures in Warhammer. Grimgor is able to fight superior to heroes that on paper had the advantage of precognition, superior training, experience, reactions, and intelligence, and still come out on top cause he's DA BEZT
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Wow awesome. Well I've been rereading dragon ball so I can go to detail about Goku's skill feats.
Son Goku was trained by Son Gohan who is a master martial artist trained by roshi himself, and has experience surviving in the wild alone. In chapter 1 he showcases his quick thinking and skilled maneuvers when he saves bulma froma flying teranodon by riding a motorbike he just learned of it's existence up a hill jumping off it mid air, one shotting the thing by extending his pole, then retracting it and throwing with so much precision that it catches on bulma's clothes while she's falling and pins her to a hill saving her while falling and then lands on his toes.
Goku's acrobatic skill doesn't end there, he once dodged a full strength sword swipe from a bear by riding on the sword and standing on it, and his ability to change direction and momentum nearly instantly is incredible as well which he showed many times such as in his fight with nam or tao pai pai.
Master roshi is a master martial artist with hundreds of years of experience, who trained extremely skilled martial artist like Son gohan and gyumao and is hailed as the greatest martial artist in the world putting him above people like man wolf who's a 30 dan in kenpo (a 30 dan is basically a stage where 1 dan is basically like a black belt martial arts and every stage of dan above that is like 5 years of training and experience) who master roshi fought and fodderized, and also puts him above a dude like king chappa who won the tenkaichi budokai (the gathering of the best master martial artists in the entire world) twice without getting tagged by his opponents once, he is stated to be one of the best in the world by even people like yamcha and his attacks are literally descibed as moving in such a way that it looks like 8 different attacks simultaneously despite only attacking with 2 arms (btw Goku literally views this guy as fodder), and master roshi skill stomps them all, this master roshi took him 50 years to master the kamehameha, and Goku with no ki experience at all, just by seeing this technique once was able to mimic it perfectly.
Goku was then trained by roshi and in the tenkaichi budokai, he stalemated him in combat when roshi himself needed to train for this just to beat Goku. Goku also had many skill feats in this tournament such as in his fight with giran, he got completely immobilized and thrown out of the ring and would lose if he touched the ground, and there was nothing he could do but thinking quickly and not panicking, he thought of summoning the kinton to save him, but the crazier thing is he regrew his tail vs giran and got in the exact situation vs roshi but he wasn't allowed to use kintoun, so he used his tail as a helicopter to fly back to the ring showing how skilled he is at using every possible thing to his advantage.
He is also adept at creating strategies and techniques on the spot for the situation he's in like with nam where he created a technique on the spot which nam couldn't counter or other examples I showed earlier.
Goku also copies martial arts techniques every chance he gets such as when he saw roshi use the zanzoken (after image) technique in his match and so he copied it and used it in his next match. Roshi also used the zanzoken bluff technique to catch Goku off guard by creating two afterimages instead of one, despite Goku predicting where roshi would place the afterimages, then Goku used the same technique but improved on it by creating 3 afterimages instead of 2 and catching roshi off guard who also predicted and identifed all the afterimages before gtting jumped.
Next up is tao pai pai who is an extremely skilled master martial artist and assassin who trained tien shinhan, and beat general blue (who beat krillin who is at a similar level to an earilier Goku) by stabbing him with his TOUNGUE in his head and then he beat Goku easily, so Goku went up and trained with korin, korin is this giga chad who is called the god of martial arts, with 800 years of experience. Korin fodderized roshi for 3 years by preventing roshi from getting a water bottle. So basically roshi who I described all his skill feats earlier couldn't tag korin at all for 3 years until he got water. Goku got outskilled by korin and literally after only 3 days of training, Goku surpassed korin's level and was able to get water a feat roshi took him 3 years. He even impressed korin so much, he showed him 8 zanzoken, something which korin said he's never seen.
Goku then fodderized tao pai pai, then went on to solo the entire red ribbon army AT ONCE who are described as the strongest army in the world.
Goku also fought ackman who was baba's ace in the whole who also won the tenkaichi budokai, and beat him after exerting the least amount of effort, and then went on to fight son gohan and beat him by outsmarting and only losing due to gohan knowing about his weakness.
Goku is also an incredibly analytical fighter, he's able to see openings in someone's stance scaling to fodder who are able to do so, and without even taking a stance is shown to have no openings when analyzed.
Goku is also able to tell amazingly skilled fighters just by looking at them without watching them fight like when he knew tien shinhan was at roshi's level, and he also knows what they are thinking about and predicts what they do like for example when he knew yamcha would do a kamehameha despite not knowing yamcha learned it and he hadn't seen him for 3 years.
Basicay if I were to create a scaling chain, I'd be here all day.
Goku's acrobatic skill doesn't end there, he once dodged a full strength sword swipe from a bear by riding on the sword and standing on it, and his ability to change direction and momentum nearly instantly is incredible as well which he showed many times such as in his fight with nam or tao pai pai.
Master roshi is a master martial artist with hundreds of years of experience, who trained extremely skilled martial artist like Son gohan and gyumao and is hailed as the greatest martial artist in the world putting him above people like man wolf who's a 30 dan in kenpo (a 30 dan is basically a stage where 1 dan is basically like a black belt martial arts and every stage of dan above that is like 5 years of training and experience) who master roshi fought and fodderized, and also puts him above a dude like king chappa who won the tenkaichi budokai (the gathering of the best master martial artists in the entire world) twice without getting tagged by his opponents once, he is stated to be one of the best in the world by even people like yamcha and his attacks are literally descibed as moving in such a way that it looks like 8 different attacks simultaneously despite only attacking with 2 arms (btw Goku literally views this guy as fodder), and master roshi skill stomps them all, this master roshi took him 50 years to master the kamehameha, and Goku with no ki experience at all, just by seeing this technique once was able to mimic it perfectly.
Goku was then trained by roshi and in the tenkaichi budokai, he stalemated him in combat when roshi himself needed to train for this just to beat Goku. Goku also had many skill feats in this tournament such as in his fight with giran, he got completely immobilized and thrown out of the ring and would lose if he touched the ground, and there was nothing he could do but thinking quickly and not panicking, he thought of summoning the kinton to save him, but the crazier thing is he regrew his tail vs giran and got in the exact situation vs roshi but he wasn't allowed to use kintoun, so he used his tail as a helicopter to fly back to the ring showing how skilled he is at using every possible thing to his advantage.
He is also adept at creating strategies and techniques on the spot for the situation he's in like with nam where he created a technique on the spot which nam couldn't counter or other examples I showed earlier.
Goku also copies martial arts techniques every chance he gets such as when he saw roshi use the zanzoken (after image) technique in his match and so he copied it and used it in his next match. Roshi also used the zanzoken bluff technique to catch Goku off guard by creating two afterimages instead of one, despite Goku predicting where roshi would place the afterimages, then Goku used the same technique but improved on it by creating 3 afterimages instead of 2 and catching roshi off guard who also predicted and identifed all the afterimages before gtting jumped.
Next up is tao pai pai who is an extremely skilled master martial artist and assassin who trained tien shinhan, and beat general blue (who beat krillin who is at a similar level to an earilier Goku) by stabbing him with his TOUNGUE in his head and then he beat Goku easily, so Goku went up and trained with korin, korin is this giga chad who is called the god of martial arts, with 800 years of experience. Korin fodderized roshi for 3 years by preventing roshi from getting a water bottle. So basically roshi who I described all his skill feats earlier couldn't tag korin at all for 3 years until he got water. Goku got outskilled by korin and literally after only 3 days of training, Goku surpassed korin's level and was able to get water a feat roshi took him 3 years. He even impressed korin so much, he showed him 8 zanzoken, something which korin said he's never seen.
Goku then fodderized tao pai pai, then went on to solo the entire red ribbon army AT ONCE who are described as the strongest army in the world.
Goku also fought ackman who was baba's ace in the whole who also won the tenkaichi budokai, and beat him after exerting the least amount of effort, and then went on to fight son gohan and beat him by outsmarting and only losing due to gohan knowing about his weakness.
Goku is also an incredibly analytical fighter, he's able to see openings in someone's stance scaling to fodder who are able to do so, and without even taking a stance is shown to have no openings when analyzed.
Goku is also able to tell amazingly skilled fighters just by looking at them without watching them fight like when he knew tien shinhan was at roshi's level, and he also knows what they are thinking about and predicts what they do like for example when he knew yamcha would do a kamehameha despite not knowing yamcha learned it and he hadn't seen him for 3 years.
Basicay if I were to create a scaling chain, I'd be here all day.
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How id divide this up is:
Ap: Grimgor has a rough 2.1x advantage but this can widen tremendously fast with his reactive power level and Waaagh! buff which amps him up to 3x his base ( his Waaagh! stacks with all of his other amps as well)
Range: Goku by a pretty decent margin, Grimgor in this key doesn't really have any ranged.
Skill: Grimgor basically shit stomps people with thousands of years of martial arts and combat skills on a pretty regular basis and only until the literal endtimes did he actually find people who could compare combat wise. Goku is no slouch either, I mean it's freaking Goku of all people, but I'd have to give it to Grimgor in this key.
Stamina: Grimgor has a soft edge, fighting for several days straight without rest, food or drink and only really stopping because he got bored.
Goku can pull a win if he stays away from melee and only stays in the air and spams ranged attacks, but I don't think that's super in character for him, especially when his enemy clearly has no ranged attacks and can't fly, but at the same time, him staying away and spamming like that will only piss Grimgor off more which in turn will make his power and speed spike more and more, and with him already having a solid advantage in ap and durabilty and his Regen and immortality type 2, it's only going to get harder and harder for Goku to actually deal meaningful damage as his reactive power level is going to get outpaced.
So im kind of leaning towards either Grimgor or inconclusive if Goku actually stays away the entire fight
Ap: Grimgor has a rough 2.1x advantage but this can widen tremendously fast with his reactive power level and Waaagh! buff which amps him up to 3x his base ( his Waaagh! stacks with all of his other amps as well)
Range: Goku by a pretty decent margin, Grimgor in this key doesn't really have any ranged.
Skill: Grimgor basically shit stomps people with thousands of years of martial arts and combat skills on a pretty regular basis and only until the literal endtimes did he actually find people who could compare combat wise. Goku is no slouch either, I mean it's freaking Goku of all people, but I'd have to give it to Grimgor in this key.
Stamina: Grimgor has a soft edge, fighting for several days straight without rest, food or drink and only really stopping because he got bored.
Goku can pull a win if he stays away from melee and only stays in the air and spams ranged attacks, but I don't think that's super in character for him, especially when his enemy clearly has no ranged attacks and can't fly, but at the same time, him staying away and spamming like that will only piss Grimgor off more which in turn will make his power and speed spike more and more, and with him already having a solid advantage in ap and durabilty and his Regen and immortality type 2, it's only going to get harder and harder for Goku to actually deal meaningful damage as his reactive power level is going to get outpaced.
So im kind of leaning towards either Grimgor or inconclusive if Goku actually stays away the entire fight
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Issue: Grimgor is brute force that just so happens to beat people who should outskill him 10000000x over. Reading through Goku's skill list that's shit that wouldn't even get him into mid-tier skill for Warhammer Fantasy.
Grimgor's weapon has 5-B durability and like every kind of NPI there is, range spamming him is just gonna get swatted out of the air.
Also that was excluding the fact Grimgor beat the shit out of Archaon and Malekith for a bit, the ladder far more skilled then people who can literally kill someone with a normal ass whistle by blowing it our of sheer skill and the former is like, top 3 or 4 most skilled in the verse.
Grimgor's weapon has 5-B durability and like every kind of NPI there is, range spamming him is just gonna get swatted out of the air.
Also that was excluding the fact Grimgor beat the shit out of Archaon and Malekith for a bit, the ladder far more skilled then people who can literally kill someone with a normal ass whistle by blowing it our of sheer skill and the former is like, top 3 or 4 most skilled in the verse.
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Goku's reactive power level is far stronger than that. In fact it has feats of rising gaps of 50x in power though it is tamer earlier in the series I will admit. BUT it doesn't just increase his power, it also increases his speed which would eventually outspeed his opponent. Though that wagjthab is a problem.
Kid Goku is actually brutal unlike when he's older, he'll do crazy shit to win like abuse his advantages especially when he can immediately realize how incredibly powerful his opponent is as he has feats of literally reading all his opponents movements just by watching them move so Goku will be fighting to win here not to have fun.
Is that really true? I can make a scaling chain of skillstomping way bigger than what you gave for grim iron man.
Grim iron man can't catch the nimbus easily, it's way faster than Goku himself. And Goku can literally hit Grim iron man from the other side of the planet, that's literally how big the range advantage is.
Wow that's impressive. But tao pai pai could also do crazy shit like that time when he one shot blue with his tongue, or when roshi touched the 30 dan man wolf's forehead and completely immobilized him.
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This skill stomping chain of yours doesn't sound like it gets to the soloing armies of Army soloers that Grimgor beat the shit out of in Archaon and Malekith lol
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Wow incredible! Goku does out skill korin who views army soloers as fodder and can't even get tagged once by them, them who also can't get tagged by master martial artists who have like dozens of stages of skill stomping master martial artists. That's still extremely impressive though still. But Goku does have more types of skill feats than grim iron man, who seems to just beat really skilled dudes and that's it, but Goku has that as well as many other techniques and different types of skill feats like acrobatics, cleverness, copying abilities, making up strategies and analysis abilities which is why I still think he's more impressive.
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Grimgor's amps specifically buff his speed as well, it's also important to note he has at least 3 different ones here, he has his reactive power level, which makes him stronger and faster the longer he fights, he has his rage buff, which makes him stronger and faster the more angrier he is, and then he has his Waaagh! amp which as stated before amps his stats up to X3 and stacks with all of his other buffs and is repeatable, if we go by game mechanics from TWW2, then he can pop off a Waaagh! amp every minute or so, meaning no matter what perpetually through out the entire fight he's just going to continually spiking in power very quickly
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Ok. Goku's reactive power level is still stronger. Goku also has rage power. Wtf? No way... you're telling me this guy get 3x stronger every minute? You gotta be joking right? So Goku has less than 2 minutes to kill or immobilize this guy?
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Considering Grimgor loves his fights, probably yes unless he has dura neg lol
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It's roughly every minute, lore wise it could actually activate faster or slower, it all depends on the fight, how into the fight they get, how hype the orc gets, basically any form of excitement, good or bad, builds Waagh! energy in an orc until it releases and amps the orc. Which in a fight where they are this close to each other, it's going to rise FAST, you can kind of equate this to Goku vs Broly in the Super. It's why I was refferring to this probably being an incon if Goku stays away, as eventually he's not going to be able to keep up in damage output, especially since he still has his regen and immortality type 2 on top of him getting more and more durable.
Just as an example, with just pure Waaagh! energy a goblin or orc shaman can basically jump from 6-C magic to low 5-B basically in an instant from nearby orcs collective energy.
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...
Okay so if Goku out skills, I still don't think he can wound grim iron man enough to kill when grim iron man has regeneration mid low and immortality type 2 when Goku is already at a 2.1x AP disadvantage and doesn't have any sort of durability negation or lethal attacks. In terms of incapacitation, Goku can completely over power in terms of lifting strength, the problem is, he has to immobilize for a week, but eventually grim iron man will keep getting 3x stronger and eventually overpower Goku's lifting strength.
So there are two win conditions, either Goku can use pressure points like roshi did against man wolf to immobilize grim iron man and it's not dependent on lifting strength, or Goku can do what he did with the rabbit gang and get this, grab grim iron man and fly him to SPACE with the nyobo killing him in the vacuum, now one is clearly much more likely than the other as the latter will be done only when Goku realizes it's the only way to win since this is out of character, which would be after grim iron man amps and becomes 6x stronger than Goku, so it will be unlikely that he can actually pull this off.
The former is much more likely and is a viable win condition and should be in character to Goku as he'd rather immobilize than kill but it's not a starting move far from it, so Goku will probably also need to do it later in the fight when it's significantly harder.
I have to go on inconclusive for this one since grim iron man is no slouch and would be a hard fight for Son Goku.
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i can agree with that, this is honestly a great fight and I can see them both mutually respecting each other's power and skill, if these characters had slightly different personalities I'd even say it's super thematic and that saiyans and orcs would probably get along famously.
Peppersalt43
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Incon FRA for now
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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Bump
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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Bump
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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Peppersalt43
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Where's the monkey?
Must have been a trap
Must have been a trap
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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Bump
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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bump
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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bump
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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Bump
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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bump
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 22,172
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Bump
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It's the opposite. This came before the tournament.
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... Need more dedication 
Peppersalt43
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