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Persona near-wide downgrade to tier 10

Bumping this so it isn't forgotten.

Although I'll mention again, maybe it would be best to close this thread and wait for the supporters of the verse to do a CRT to fix the stuff outlined?
 
Bobsican said:
Bumping this so it isn't forgotten.

Although I'll mention again, maybe it would be best to close this thread and wait for the supporters of the verse to do a CRT to fix the stuff outlined?
Click to expand...
Hmm i dont see a reason why close the thread,

-New keys ? Accepted

-Social influencer ? Accepted.

-Feats for those keys ? Still to be discussed.

We can still finish in one thread.
 
haha oops

can you bump it again like tomorrow i'll forget it in 53 seconds for sure and i cant today
 
P4 and P5 characters specifically CANNOT use their persona's in reality because of the mechanics of where they gain it and how they gain it. Even in P4A, P3 characters 'force' their persona out but P4 and P5 characters do not have the same means of revealing their true selves. I don't even truly understand why you would need the tier to begin with as they largely have no actual combat means and are basically flimsy teenagers, this seems unnecessary.
 
Accelerate420 said:
P4 and P5 characters specifically CANNOT use their persona's in reality because of the mechanics of where they gain it and how they gain it. Even in P4A, P3 characters 'force' their persona out but P4 and P5 characters do not have the same means of revealing their true selves. I don't even truly understand why you would need the tier to begin with as they largely have no actual combat means and are basically flimsy teenagers, this seems unnecessary.
Click to expand...
To make it clear that they're tier 10 regularly, like how you don't only list a character's tier while "amped" if you can also measure the base's stats.
Not pointing this out on the profiles is misleading and leads into those not into the verse to think that they're always that tier naturally regardless of circumstances, which isn't the case for P4 and P5 guys.
 
I can't even really tell what's happening there

But the suit of armor doesn't look big enough for just a swing of the arm to be 9-B, I think
 
I think you accidentally posted the wrong link, that's the intro to revelations persona
 
Either way that picture... honestly gives an even worse frame of reference. Like, I can't really tell how big their arms are supposed to be and thus what mass I should get for it as a result.
 
DMUA said:
Either way that picture... honestly gives an even worse frame of reference. Like, I can't really tell how big their arms are supposed to be and thus what mass I should get for it as a result.
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Joker is frame of reference with a known height. And much more than just the arm is used for a swing.
 
They're on two different panels though, completely separated from eachother

also I have to disagree, that definitely looks like them just smacking Ryuji with the bottom of his fist... then again just, in general this manga stuff is really hard to read
 
DMUA said:
They're on two different panels though, completely separated from eachother

also I have to disagree, that definitely looks like them just smacking Ryuji with the bottom of his fist... then again just, in general this manga stuff is really hard to read
Click to expand...
? Armor is calcing the mass of the dude.

he is cocking ryuji in the jaw with the hilt of his sword. Such a movement involves the mass of the whole body not just the arm.
 
You don't need to shift your entire body mass to hit someone in the jaw with a hilt. He doesn't even look like that, you don't see his torso or legs move in any capacity. Or at least, not a noticeable amount to indicate they threw hundreds of kilograms into that simple, casual strike
 
DMUA said:
You don't need to shift your entire body mass to hit someone in the jaw with a hilt. He doesn't even look like that, you don't see his torso or legs move in any capacity. Or at least, not a noticeable amount to indicate they threw hundreds of kilograms into that simple, casual strike
Click to expand...
Dude it’s literally just physics. He turned his bidy in an arc and struck ryuji with his hilt. You realize punches and strikes use energy from the whole body right?
 
That's not how it works, no.

Like, the whole idea behind technique is to really throw your weight into a punch but if you're just kinda casually hitting a guy like we see here, you aren't going to get that much of the overall mass to factor in.
 
DMUA said:
That's not how it works, no.

Like, the whole idea behind technique is to really throw your weight into a punch but if you're just kinda casually hitting a guy like we see here, you aren't going to get that much of the overall mass to factor in.
Click to expand...
Substantiate this. Try throwing a ounch at regular speed with a suit of armor on. Your body being weighed down effects your ability because striking is not some isolated body part moving.

Not to mention once again, it being a casual strike has nothing to do with the physics of him moving his body in an arc to hit ryuji.

Not really sure why it’s hard to believe a 20ft dude in full armor swinging his weight into a concentrated point.

but I’ll just wait for armor to post to see what he thinks
 
I mean, if I threw a punch properly, it would and I don't doubt that, but if I just sorta drove my fist out without any proper form, it would barely involve the rest of me.

He isn't even moving his body in an arc judging by the way it's framed. Like, he turns to the side a little bit but it's not like he's turning around fully.
 
Yeah it seems like a very casual smack too so I doubt Ryuji should scale to the armor's GPE
 
Basically the formula we use for big characters, gravitational potential energy iirc, is supposed to represent them falling over. But it's correct to say that a casual backhand from one wouldn't be as strong as that.
 
At the very least I think it's reasonable to use some standard arm swing speed and calculate the mass of their arm

I'm pretty sure it'll get 9-C results
 
Armorchompy said:
Basically the formula we use for big characters, gravitational potential energy iirc, is supposed to represent them falling over. But it's correct to say that a casual backhand from one wouldn't be as strong as that.
Click to expand...
A casual swing from a bear can break one’s neck. Swing your arm back, it uses your core strength and body weight. The dude has to fight the resistance of the armor to generate force for the swing, who ch would noy inly be the plate on his arm. At the very least would also include the torso.

It being casual doesn’t erase biomechanics.
 
Weren't the insides of the armor just Shadows? If so, that would make the weight way harder to guess as the insides aren't really of bone and flesh for the purposes of mass.
 
Yeah, but a normal person falling over is 9-C, just cause a backhand uses my body weight doesn't mean it's gonna hit as hard as that.
 
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