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Part 2: Bleach God Tiers

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You can create a bigger Low 2-C structure by creating many smaller Low 2-C structures (and merging them as well). It can be an overtime feat where SK started with a smaller size and kept on increasing it, like building blocks. Just because a structure is Low 2-C doesn't mean that the character creating it is also Low 2-C. It depends upon the process.

Narita not mentioning whether it took a long time or not doesn't mean it couldn't have. For one, nobody was alive at the time so nobody even knows. There are many possibilities and shooting for the highest one with little to no backing seems counterproductive.
 
AKM sama said:
You can create a bigger Low 2-C structure by creating many smaller Low 2-C structures (and merging them as well). Just because a structure is Low 2-C doesn't mean that the character creating it is also Low 2-C. It depends upon the process.
Click to expand...
What?
AKM sama said:
Narita not mentioning whether it took a long time or not doesn't mean it couldn't have. For one, nobody was alive at the time so nobody even knows. There are many possibilities and shooting for the highest one with little to no backing seems counterproductive.
Click to expand...
So you literally didn’t even read the novel then. Ichibei was there he is literally telling the story about how the world came to be because he witnessed it.

The SS also has a book that details the entire creation of the verse.

The 2nd half makes 0 sense. You’re literally trying to sweep the feat under the rug.
“As though believing they had been impertinent, the new soldier rushed to cover their own mouth, but the Osho paid it no mind and nodded at those words.
“Indeed. Others such as myself, with special abilities, had appeared, but the Reio was exceptional. It may even be said he had a power that was close to being almighty, omniscient and omnipotent.”
Almost nostalgically, the Osho recalled the form of the past Reio who had long since disappeared from this throne.”

Excerpt From
Bleach: Can’t Fear Your Own World, Vol. 3
Tite Kubo, Ryohgo Narita
This material may be protected by copyright.
Click to expand...
 
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AKM sama said:
nobody was alive at the time so nobody even knows. The
Click to expand...
What ? There were hollows, Ichibē and the royal families ancestors already existed etc. I'm pretty sure
And this creation feat without time frame doesn't look different from all the others treated as low2c in this wiki
 
Meganova_Stella said:
we should ban bleach
Click to expand...
Can you not?

Blallooo said:
What ? There were hollows, Ichibē and the royal families ancestors already existed etc. I'm pretty sure
Click to expand...
It hardly matters. There is a lack of information. He didn't mention that it took a long time. He didn't mention that it was done in one shot. We have no concrete reason to assume anything. In such cases, we stay with the conservative rating, rather than going with the absolute highest one.
 
Last edited:
AKM sama said:
You can create a bigger Low 2-C structure by creating many smaller Low 2-C structures (and merging them as well). It can be an overtime feat where SK started with a smaller size and kept on increasing it, like building blocks. Just because a structure is Low 2-C doesn't mean that the character creating it is also Low 2-C. It depends upon the process.

Narita not mentioning whether it took a long time or not doesn't mean it couldn't have. For one, nobody was alive at the time so nobody even knows. There are many possibilities and shooting for the highest one with little to no backing seems counterproductive.
Click to expand...
Regardless doesn’t that highkey fall under “significantly affect” as listed on the tier justification?
 
Significantly affect is referring to acts that are not creation/destruction of the universe, but something like warping the entire universe, like changing the color of everything or something like that. Shaking the universe could also be counted under that but it does not yield anything close to 3-A values. I think the term "significantly affect" should be expanded upon in the definition because I see a lot of users confused by that, or using that incorrectly.
 
Actually the original Nobles (who were just regular Shinigami) were alive when Reio started creation and alive when he finished. Considering Shinigami live a couple thousand years tops on average, Reio’s creation feat shouldn’t have exceeded that time. There’s nothing to suggest it took so long to the point he isn’t scalable to the feat. Thus I think it’s fine to say PSK is possibly or at most Garganta tier.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Get into it I shall.

Preface
Tentatively I agree with AKM's proposals. I feel without a cosmic supporting feat, coupled with planet sized realms, it's far more consistent to rate the God Tiers as planetary. No one is saying that the universe isn't being destroyed, it's just a case now where it's not concrete that they're destroying something like Garganta directly, and the scans do imply it's more environmental destruction. This isn't a case of "the Bleach universe isn't being destroyed", this is a case of how it is happening. As AKM described, destroying the foundation (Soul Society) causes everything else (ie Garganta) to get destroyed with it; in which case, without any cosmic supporting feats and planet sized realms, universal destruction occurs via destroying the Soul Society (a planet) leading to Garganta collapsing as well (a universal dimension). I'd like to imagine I've seen every universal Bleach argument, so unless someone pulls some uber megamind argument out of thin air, I think tier 5 God Tiers is most consistent without any tier 3 supporting feats to back up the universal interpretations. Anyways, onto the scaling.

Scaling
So a few things to get out of the way, I'm not going to bother posting scans unless contested, because this is stuff we already accept scaling-wise with our current ratings.
Gran Rey Cero is vaguely above a 10x AP amp (it was decided in the GRC thread months back that there was sufficient evidence to suggest GRC is a greater amp than Cero Oscuras, CO is stated to be a 10x AP amp)
  • Ichigo's Hollow transformations scale to or above a 10x AP amp as well (Ichigo used his Hollow Mask to match Grimmjow's GRC when they were relative base to base, Ichigo used his Hollow Mask to match Gin's Buto Renjin which is stated to be a 10x AP amp in the databooks when they were relative base to base)
  • WSK's durability scales to his stability based on how the energy system in Bleach works (this has been beaten to death forever and is how we treat it currently)
  • WSK's durability upscales Senna's feat and is 5-B (this is how we treated it in the past and how we treated it with the uni scaling as well, Senna's explosion did no visible harm to the realm's dimensional barriers wherein WSK nearly shattered those barriers instantly, plus numerous statements that the realms will cease to exist without WSK's stability)
  • Any Soul King character has 3-A/Low 2-C Environmental Destruction (destroying SS causes Garganta to collapse which is its own universal spacetime, it's unclear of if the contents would be destroyed or if the entire structure would be destroyed hence the 3-A, possibly Low 2-C as per usual)
  • PSK is either vaguely higher than God Tiers or scales to Garganta (PSK created Garganta and while the time frame is unknown, it's not implied to have take 10^26 years [that's how long it would take for the feat to drop from 3-A to 4-A], so I think it's fine to rate him as possibly/at most Garganta tier)
The above bullet points AKM and I have discussed and found acceptable, and forms the ground work for the scaling. I'll type out the scaling, which hasn't changed, but is just being replaced with new values.
  • True Shikai Ichigo scales to WSK (he cut WSK, he's stated to be capable of replacing WSK, and he scales relative to Almighty Yhwach and a casual Soul King Yhwach)
  • Almighty Yhwach scales above WSK and slightly above TS Ichigo (Yhwach flat out states he's far superior to WSK and he is able to damage TS Ichigo)
  • Hollow form TS Ichigo scales 10x above TS Ichigo (see the multiplier for his Hollow form above)
  • Hollow form TS Ichigo's GRC Getsuga Tenshou is another 10x AP amp (combining GRC and GT would be more potent than GRC which I refer you to its multiplier above)
  • Soul King Yhwach scales to Hollow TS Ichigo's GRC GT (after getting serious he was able to stop and crush the GRC GT)
  • True Bankai Ichigo and Muken Aizen scale to Soul King Yhwach (both were able to fight SK Yhwach, cutting through a serious SK Yhwach's black reiatsu, and in Ichigo's case he bisected Yhwach twice, there's some nice narrative consistency with Yhwach fearing Ichigo's Bankai as well)
  • True Bankai Ichigo scales even higher with his Hollow form and GRC GT amps (no one else except maybe Prime Reio scales to these tho, since he didn't make use of his Hollow powers in Bankai)
The specific values of the scaling are as follows:
  • The lowest 5-B's are baseline at 2.487e32 joules (WSK, TS Ichigo, Almighty Yhwach)
  • The highest 5-B's are 10x the prior at 2.487e33 joules (Hollow TS Ichigo)
  • The lowest 5-A's are 10x prior at 2.487e34 joules (Hollow TS Ichigo's GRC GT, Soul King Yhwach, Muken Aizen, TB Ichigo)
  • The middle 5-A's are 10x prior at 2.487e35 joules (Hollow TB Ichigo)
  • The highest 5-A's are 10x prior at 2.487e36 joules (Hollow TB Ichigo's GRC GT, possibly Prime SK)
The character profile tiers would look like:
  • Reio: 5-B, 3-A, possibly Low 2-C via Environmental Destruction | Unknown, likely at least 5-A, [possibly far higher, 3-A, possibly Low 2-C via Environmental Destruction] or [possibly/at most 3-A to Low 2-C]
    • Keys: Weakened | Prime
  • Ichigo: 5-B, 5-A with Bankai | 5-B, 5-A with Gran Rey Cero Getsuga Tenshou, higher with Bankai, far higher with Bankai and Gran Rey Cero Getsuga Tenshou
    • Keys: True Zanpakuto | Merged Hollow Form
  • Aizen: 5-A
    • Keys: TYBW
  • Yhwach: 5-B | 5-A, 3-A, possibly Low 2-C via Environmental Destruction
    • Keys: Almighty | Soul King
Quick aside, imo we can remove Yhwach's Mimihagi absorbed key and merge it with his Soul King key. He doesn't get a quantifiable amp from Mimihagi, nor does he gain a lot in terms of ability to really justify a key for it. Also, he immediately absorbs Reio after Mimihagi anyhow, so Mimihagi absorbed Yhwach is only in the manga for a couple pages at most.

Conclusion
Not much else to say really. As I've said, without supporting cosmic feats coupled with now planetary realms, I think tier 5 is consistent. Pretty much every facet of this argument has been exhausted. At the risk of being that guy, maybe the topic of cosmic Bleach should be soft thread banned until the anime/new Hell arc/potential databooks come out. Although, tbh I don't think anyone really cares to touch Bleach God Tiers much after the year+ long "back and forth" that's happened for them lol.
Click to expand...
I personally think that this seems to make sense.
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Nothing indicates it took thousands of years. Literally right after that it says it took a long time to cut him up into pieces. If it the creation took a long ass time why didn’t Narita write something like “after a long while the worlds were made”?
Click to expand...
Just passing-by, but bro if there is no timeframe then it is vaguely in-between, just because it not mention long timeframe mean it must be short timeframe, by that logic DBS manga will be 3-A because nothing mention timeframe thus short timeframe
 
BLeach characters creation feat is instantaneous. Gremmy Meteor and outer space, Yukio pocket dimension all are instant feats. You can come to conclusion splitting the world also instant feat.
 
Last edited:
Arc7Kuroi said:
Get into it I shall.

Preface
Tentatively I agree with AKM's proposals. I feel without a cosmic supporting feat, coupled with planet sized realms, it's far more consistent to rate the God Tiers as planetary. No one is saying that the universe isn't being destroyed, it's just a case now where it's not concrete that they're destroying something like Garganta directly, and the scans do imply it's more environmental destruction. This isn't a case of "the Bleach universe isn't being destroyed", this is a case of how it is happening. As AKM described, destroying the foundation (Soul Society) causes everything else (ie Garganta) to get destroyed with it; in which case, without any cosmic supporting feats and planet sized realms, universal destruction occurs via destroying the Soul Society (a planet) leading to Garganta collapsing as well (a universal dimension). I'd like to imagine I've seen every universal Bleach argument, so unless someone pulls some uber megamind argument out of thin air, I think tier 5 God Tiers is most consistent without any tier 3 supporting feats to back up the universal interpretations. Anyways, onto the scaling.

Scaling
So a few things to get out of the way, I'm not going to bother posting scans unless contested, because this is stuff we already accept scaling-wise with our current ratings.
Gran Rey Cero is vaguely above a 10x AP amp (it was decided in the GRC thread months back that there was sufficient evidence to suggest GRC is a greater amp than Cero Oscuras, CO is stated to be a 10x AP amp)
  • Ichigo's Hollow transformations scale to or above a 10x AP amp as well (Ichigo used his Hollow Mask to match Grimmjow's GRC when they were relative base to base, Ichigo used his Hollow Mask to match Gin's Buto Renjin which is stated to be a 10x AP amp in the databooks when they were relative base to base)
  • WSK's durability scales to his stability based on how the energy system in Bleach works (this has been beaten to death forever and is how we treat it currently)
  • WSK's durability upscales Senna's feat and is 5-B (this is how we treated it in the past and how we treated it with the uni scaling as well, Senna's explosion did no visible harm to the realm's dimensional barriers wherein WSK nearly shattered those barriers instantly, plus numerous statements that the realms will cease to exist without WSK's stability)
  • Any Soul King character has 3-A/Low 2-C Environmental Destruction (destroying SS causes Garganta to collapse which is its own universal spacetime, it's unclear of if the contents would be destroyed or if the entire structure would be destroyed hence the 3-A, possibly Low 2-C as per usual)
  • PSK is either vaguely higher than God Tiers or scales to Garganta (PSK created Garganta and while the time frame is unknown, it's not implied to have take 10^26 years [that's how long it would take for the feat to drop from 3-A to 4-A], so I think it's fine to rate him as possibly/at most Garganta tier)
The above bullet points AKM and I have discussed and found acceptable, and forms the ground work for the scaling. I'll type out the scaling, which hasn't changed, but is just being replaced with new values.
  • True Shikai Ichigo scales to WSK (he cut WSK, he's stated to be capable of replacing WSK, and he scales relative to Almighty Yhwach and a casual Soul King Yhwach)
  • Almighty Yhwach scales above WSK and slightly above TS Ichigo (Yhwach flat out states he's far superior to WSK and he is able to damage TS Ichigo)
  • Hollow form TS Ichigo scales 10x above TS Ichigo (see the multiplier for his Hollow form above)
  • Hollow form TS Ichigo's GRC Getsuga Tenshou is another 10x AP amp (combining GRC and GT would be more potent than GRC which I refer you to its multiplier above)
  • Soul King Yhwach scales to Hollow TS Ichigo's GRC GT (after getting serious he was able to stop and crush the GRC GT)
  • True Bankai Ichigo and Muken Aizen scale to Soul King Yhwach (both were able to fight SK Yhwach, cutting through a serious SK Yhwach's black reiatsu, and in Ichigo's case he bisected Yhwach twice, there's some nice narrative consistency with Yhwach fearing Ichigo's Bankai as well)
  • True Bankai Ichigo scales even higher with his Hollow form and GRC GT amps (no one else except maybe Prime Reio scales to these tho, since he didn't make use of his Hollow powers in Bankai)
The specific values of the scaling are as follows:
  • The lowest 5-B's are baseline at 2.487e32 joules (WSK, TS Ichigo, Almighty Yhwach)
  • The highest 5-B's are 10x the prior at 2.487e33 joules (Hollow TS Ichigo)
  • The lowest 5-A's are 10x prior at 2.487e34 joules (Hollow TS Ichigo's GRC GT, Soul King Yhwach, Muken Aizen, TB Ichigo)
  • The middle 5-A's are 10x prior at 2.487e35 joules (Hollow TB Ichigo)
  • The highest 5-A's are 10x prior at 2.487e36 joules (Hollow TB Ichigo's GRC GT, possibly Prime SK)
The character profile tiers would look like:
  • Reio: 5-B, 3-A, possibly Low 2-C via Environmental Destruction | Unknown, likely at least 5-A, [possibly far higher, 3-A, possibly Low 2-C via Environmental Destruction] or [possibly/at most 3-A to Low 2-C]
    • Keys: Weakened | Prime
  • Ichigo: 5-B, 5-A with Bankai | 5-B, 5-A with Gran Rey Cero Getsuga Tenshou, higher with Bankai, far higher with Bankai and Gran Rey Cero Getsuga Tenshou
    • Keys: True Zanpakuto | Merged Hollow Form
  • Aizen: 5-A
    • Keys: TYBW
  • Yhwach: 5-B | 5-A, 3-A, possibly Low 2-C via Environmental Destruction
    • Keys: Almighty | Soul King
Quick aside, imo we can remove Yhwach's Mimihagi absorbed key and merge it with his Soul King key. He doesn't get a quantifiable amp from Mimihagi, nor does he gain a lot in terms of ability to really justify a key for it. Also, he immediately absorbs Reio after Mimihagi anyhow, so Mimihagi absorbed Yhwach is only in the manga for a couple pages at most.

Conclusion
Not much else to say really. As I've said, without supporting cosmic feats coupled with now planetary realms, I think tier 5 is consistent. Pretty much every facet of this argument has been exhausted. At the risk of being that guy, maybe the topic of cosmic Bleach should be soft thread banned until the anime/new Hell arc/potential databooks come out. Although, tbh I don't think anyone really cares to touch Bleach God Tiers much after the year+ long "back and forth" that's happened for them lol.
Click to expand...
Why Ichigo and Aizen only Planetary when Ichigo can just replace the SK to maintain the balance of the whole cosmology.
 
I really don't care about other characters but Aizen, Ichigo, Yhwach should maintain their 3A rating. Ichigo clearly matched the raw power of the Yhwach. In BLeach level of reatsu is necessary to damage other characters. Its even brought up in Novels. Also even if you consider Gremmy feat is outlier or whatever it's clearly stated he needed Reishi to do that feat. Ichigo and Aizen should keep 3A rating. So fodder character can create something like multi galaxy but Soul King can't create 3 realms in an instant?.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
BLeach characters creation feat is instantaneous. Gremmy Meteor and outer space, Yukio pocket dimension all are instant feats. You can come to conclusion splitting the world also instant feat.
Click to expand...
Scan bro, also some peoples can creat things instantly doesn't mean other characters in-verse should be the same
 
Gremmy can create and erase anything based on Reishi. His creation feat should scale to his AP.

Gremmy can even create other sentient living beings using this power, having created Guenael Lee and then erasing him from existence with the same power.
Click to expand...
Well Gremmy profile already has Creation of life and destruction of that creation.

His creation feat should scale to him.

Well whatever if this thread is already decided on downgrading Ichigo and Aizen then opinions of non staff members like mine doesn't matter anyway.
 
The thing about Gremmy is that it was accepted on a thread that it scales to his AP but deemed an outlier which is fair enough I suppose. The fact that it is agreed to be a feat he performed tho should still be valid for support. Not gonna bother arguing for it though since god tier threads are honestly sickening at this point.
 
Just asking so if bleach creation feat doesn't considered as AP and doesn't scale to Ichigo and Aizen who can harm a character like that does that mean I will be seeing other verses creation feat also getting downgraded? No hate for other verses just asking is this treatment is only for bleach characters. I am new to wiki. I just wanna know.

Sorry I hope I didn't break any rules.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
The thing about Gremmy is that it was accepted on a thread that it scales to his AP but deemed an outlier which is fair enough I suppose. The fact that it is agreed to be a feat he performed tho should still be valid for support. Not gonna bother arguing for it though since god tier threads are honestly sickening at this point.
Click to expand...
Yeah I given the example because God tiers should keep their rating. I really don't care about Gremmy or anyone for now.
 
@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality

When we have a statement like "the character created a Low 2-C structure", without any other information as to how, the method, the time frame, the process, or any detail, do we rate it as Low 2-C or Unknown. And in such a case, does it scale to normal AP and durability?
 
AKM sama said:
@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality

When we have a statement like "the character created a Low 2-C structure", without any other information as to how, the method, the time frame, the process, or any detail, do we rate it as Low 2-C or Unknown. And in such a case, does it scale to normal AP and durability?
Click to expand...
It shouldn't matter if it's overtime because an infinite structure is being created, it'd still be baseline.
It would scale if he used the same power that he uses to fight to create that structure.
 
AKM sama said:
@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality

When we have a statement like "the character created a Low 2-C structure", without any other information as to how, the method, the time frame, the process, or any detail, do we rate it as Low 2-C or Unknown. And in such a case, does it scale to normal AP and durability?
Click to expand...
Bro Gremmy feat scales both his AP and durability. Even if you consider it as outlier or whatever. By novels explainations it's legit AP feat and same goes for durability. God tiers should scale to it because body needs to hold the amount of Reishi to create and destroy things.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Bro Gremmy feat scales both his AP and durability. Even if you consider it as outlier or whatever. By novels explainations it's legit AP feat and same goes for durability. God tiers should scale to it because body needs to hold the amount of Reishi to create and destroy things.
Click to expand...
Gremmy's durability is variable depending on what he is imagining.

By his own words, he implies his natural durability is less durable than steel.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
It shouldn't matter if it's overtime because an infinite structure is being created
Click to expand...
Garganta isn't accepted as an infinite structure.

Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Bro Gremmy feat scales both his AP and durability
Click to expand...
Gremmy is irrelevant to this thread. Please don't bring him up. His durability gave out as soon as he imagined to be stronger than Zaraki. And there is nothing stating that Reio created the worlds using a power like Gremmy's.
 
Last edited:
AKM sama said:
Garganta isn't accepted as an infinite structure.
Click to expand...
The hell is a garganta? Isn't that the portal stuff? Whatever it's irrelevant.
If he's creating a space time continuum then he's creating an uncountably infinite structure which by default would be universe level+.
 
So as I can see the main point of this revision is that main realms are connected to the Soul Society "planet", and by destroying that planet, it's gonna cause other realms to get destroyed?
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
It shouldn't matter if it's overtime because an infinite structure is being created, it'd still be baseline.
It would scale if he used the same power that he uses to fight to create that structure.
Click to expand...
creating an infinite sized structure is H3A
what the five great family leaders did was well use the SK to separate a universe. and that feat can vary depending on context
so well "unknown" or "at most 3A" or "possibly 3A" it can even be 3B e.t.c.
FluffyCreatureZ said:
The hell is a garganta? Isn't that the portal stuff? Whatever it's irrelevant.
Click to expand...
not exactly and it is relevant as it is the space that holds the SS and Wotl
FluffyCreatureZ said:
If he's creating a space time continuum then he's creating an uncountably infinite structure which by default would be universe level+.
Click to expand...
he is not creating a space-time continuum, the only thing we know is that it was originally a universe then the five families used the Sk to separate the universe into 3, so that is at most a 3A feat
 
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