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OPM AP Revision discussion

Its a feat preformed by Genos in the early stages of OPM that has never been replicated again and is unreasonably higher than almost every other feat in the series. Genos never replicated such power again, none of the S-Class has feats supports such a rating (besides Tornado but even then her feat is Low 6-B), none of the Demons have feats supporting such a rating, and the one Dragon who has a feat of similar scale is still lower than the result Genos got.

To scale everyone to Genos's feat is like scaling every single DC 4-B to 3-A higher because Superman has a few Universal level or Multiversal feats. Nothing backs it up in terms of consistency.

The best example of this is one of my previous comments where I cataloged every non-god tier calc I could find and only one is 7-B and its by a Dragon-level threat that no one could reasonably scale to besides Saitama.
 
Beefcake's feat is actually only high 7C, since he has no heat based abilities, and it wasn't even done in a single attack.
 
You're right, which only makes 7-B Genos even more unreasonable. Personally I think Ryu's scaling idea is pretty good. Everyone that scales to Genos is Low 7-C to 7-C depending on their relative strength compared to his early stages. Everyone who scales to the Dragon Executives or Bang is High 7-C.

Ryukama are the Low 7-C, High 7-C, and downgrade to High Hypersonic resonable? Or just the AP nerf?
 
On one hand you cant nerf everything because of one inconsistency when there have been calcs on Beefcake's power level varying. Not in a place where I can respond properly rn.
 
We aren't nerfing everything because of one inconsistency, rather the current pages of the verse are almost entirely scaling from a single inconsistent feat.
 
Beefcake isn't just one inconsistency, he's one of a long line of power inconsistencies. 7-B BoS Genos is just an outlier.
 
Nope. Not a single feat.

Vaccine man being ranked city level for his own destruction level calc.


And please. Please.

I keep asking.

Wait for the blog to be finished now that I finished the tiering process.
 
Well, it says they're a threat to multiple cities, not that they'll necessarily destroy all those cities, even being Multi-City Block level to Town level would be there. You could take the meteor as being this powerful since it's dragon level, but then again, the difference between Dragon and God level is gigantic.
 
True. Issue is, the criteria for ranking in OPM can be wrong sometimes on interpreting power levels, but there's still the massive issue of there being a big power level required to be even considered part of Demon Rank or Dragon Rank. They're not just gonna get in easily and the gaps between power levels aren't just small.

Melza who can tank the entire destruction of A City at 2/5th of his power is Dragon Level at the bare minimum for example.

Each individual Dragon Rank survived Tatsumaki flipping and dropping the base on them on the webcomic. Well more on flipping but regardless.

And a single Demon Rank, Beefcake, falling on top of a city wiped it out.

Not just the only outliers there.
 
The damage would be dispersed since there's hundreds of bullets. It wouldn't be city level to withstand the after effect of their blasts, especially since it'd be less powerful, and he wouldn't have enough surface area. Plus, he could have regenerated. I say the after effect because the bullets themselves are rated at Small Island level.

It's kind of the same here as above, they wouldn't have enough surface area to withstand all the rubble, especially since it was mostly fragments.

This one is true, but he was launched with force by Saitama.
 
It would be, but then everything was focused on him when he asked for the S classes to be wiped out. All the bullets focused into one single spot. And nope. He couldn't have regenerated since he needed enough durability to tank it because the marbles could get destroyed. And even if he's partly damaged he would still be able to technically tank it and regenerate from it. Meaning it's the same.

Fair enough on this. Then again we're likely to see a buff once it's redrawn.

Nope. He was literally just stumbling back and collapsing.
 
Just because he wasn't hit directly on the marble, that doesn't mean he couldn't have regenerated, it just means his marble wasn't destroyed. Also, those bullets are way stronger than the heroes who easily reduced him to pieces, as it was implied they'd be killed by the bullets and they're Small Island level. It's not the same, he wouldn't have enough surface area and it'd be getting weaker.

Ok.

I read it again, and i admit i was wrong here, but he's extremely inconsistent.
 
Wha? I'm a bit confused on what you mean. He needs the marble intact to survive. The moment they were damaged he was done for. He needed the capacity to tank such damage otherwise there is no surviving. It's like Alex Mercer against that nuke. There needed to be something left of him. If all of those attacks are even focused on him, then that just heightens up the damage he receives.


What's inconsistent is his size. The feats however are concrete. From his defined height on the guidebook, his feat of wiping out a city in one punch (or town), and falling onto a city and destroying it.
 
When did they show that damage = complete destruction? They destroyed it completely. It's consistently shown that's he's completely obliterated (not literally) by less powerful attacks.

His size was so large that he destroyed the City due to being as large. So yes, that's inconsistent because it's size based.
 
.... Very lost. Do you mean the bullets? Either way what he needed was for the S class heroes to be damaged to a state where he can deal with them much easier. Considering it's not unbelievable for S classes to take City level hits.... And well, he seems to be more of a glass cannon. But less a glass cannon and more like he hits 10x (exxagerating) more than he takes hits. So if the heroes are damaged or slowed down, he can overwhelm them. It doesn't seem unbelievable.

He still had to exert the force to move his body and swing at a speed that can damage others. His size has been clarified by the databook.


Nope. Demon Class, just checked the profiles.

Edit - Saw your edit after I posted
 
No, I'm talking about Melz's regen, when was it shown that being even damaged rather than destroyed means the head is destroyed? He's still not able to take hits from characters quite a bit under his level, and even if he could, his body still couldn't take the bullets.

Ok.
 
Saying characters are under his level is hard to say considering he's a glass cannon... And he can focus on offense and defense when he feels like it but there's a limit to that. Him getting hit by all those attacks is necessary. Him tanking them is necessary. So he needs a way to survive them. And the only way to survive them (whether he take extensive damage or not) is to be on a certain level close to surviving it.

I don't get what you mean. He's shown the confidence to survive it and tank it. He just needed to hit the other heroes with a good punch after the bullet brings hell on them.
 
Puri Puri Prisoner is able to be curb stomped by higher end Demon levels, this guy is Dragon level, and he could be harmed by Atomic's student. When does it show he can make himself not a glass cannon? He does have a certain level not to get reduced to paste, but he would still get torn apart.

I know that he can survive it, but he can't withstand/tank it.
 
Easy.

Assume the ship is city levelling instead going by your statement of how it isn't city level due to destroying the city with bullets instead of one go.

If he focuses on average combat, he can survive. Everyone else is city level in attack potency him included, likely higher.

But if he focuses on defense, he loses the offensive bonus but gains it in durability. Meanwhile he would survive the attack, and the heroes would take damage and survive.

But he can easily regenerate from the attack and recover faster, leaving him time to damage the hurt heroes. Now that they're injured they'll be slowed down after all and weakened.


That's all there is to it.

Edit - And reason why he didn't go durability focus right off the bat? His mission was to eradicate them. And even with the assumption that he can't focus on durability, it still makes sense that everyone is city level considering... well that's where we have S class heroes are and Genos' city feats aren't exactly recent and are when he was weaker.
 
What? I don't even know what this is directed towards. Also it destroyed the City with a barrage of bullets, they even show this, you can't just ignore it. Also, I never said it wasn't City level, I said each bullet was Small Island level.

That wasn't even the point. The point is just that he can be easily hurt by opponents under his level, not that he can survive.

When does he say that/when does it happen? I know he can shift his limbs to do offensive attacks, but where's the defensive stuff?

I don't get what this point has to do with this conversation either.
 
Yeah. And I don't disagree with it. What I'm talking about is how all those attacks are now focused in a smaller and single spot. That's not just gonna be a small level limited to what its range is about. It's focusing all that attacks into one single spot. You said something about surface area being shortened but that just makes it more potent. There's no lowered damage. All of those bullets are gonna get triggered there.

I mean... he said so himself he can just focus on offense instead of defense. In fact, he brags about the fact that he should've just focused on offense and defense.


Point is

This is another aspect of why City level S classes work, and Dragon Rankers at the very least.
 
Sorry, I thought you were saying something else. They were still scattered quite a bit. So they wouldn't withstand it point blank, meaning his marble could be intact enough to regenerate. Also, if you're wondering, at that point she wasn't manipulating them, just stopping, so they were going to be that scattered.

I wasn't saying he couldn't, I'm just asking if you could give a scan, I can't find it.

Edit:I found it. But he implies he was already focusing on defence.
 
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UeLHDLnAA...K2tTnYKeefF6doJtXcH-egCHM/s16000/0034-022.png

Just checked the scans, it doesn't seem that scattered. They're all still gonna be affected by the blast and considering how big they are not much force would be lost.

But everytime the marble is exposed it gets destroyed easily. Sure it's from the S classes but it's... kinda hard to see it happening. How the marble can survive all the explosions while the body can't. It's either everything shatters, or both survives.


Here here

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SPNBbgJbv...BgDL-4bcg6Y-_h9AfWbkHwCHM/s16000/0035-020.png

Trying to find a video now.
 
There's still the issue of surface area, which would make it lose a lot of force.

Everytime it's exposed yes, but they were cutting it up or tearing it apart. An explosion would blast it apart giving it some chance to survive.

Check the edit.
 
No not really. It would lose some but not enough to make the other bullet irrelevent. The bullets aren't spaced out as far as city blocks like it was initially in the first bombardment. They're pretty much on the same block. Considering the massive explosion. They did shoot out a ton of bullets but they're still powerful bombs by themselves.

They had to grab it or smash it each time. And it only takes one good hand, or a lil squeeze. His body was doing the tanking the most. If his marbles can tank all that force, Melz wouldn't be moving it around so much in his last head.

That makes it more concerning. If he was already focused on defense he was absolutely sure that at 2/5th of his heads, he would be able to tank it. And that everyone is going to be able to take it. But the heroes would still take heavier damage due to not being able to regenerate.
 
> Melza who can tank the entire destruction of A City at 2/5th of his power is Dragon Level at the bare minimum for example.

Who says that he'll even survive ?

> Each individual Dragon Rank survived Tatsumaki flipping and dropping the base on them on the webcomic. Well more on flipping but regardless.

Considering surface area that isn't impressive enough to warrent 7-B

> And a single Demon Rank, Beefcake, falling on top of a city wiped it out.

According to ONE Beefcake's rating would've gone to Dragon if not for Saitama. No one would scale to him doing either feat. Also both feats are calced and lower than 7-B I think.


I don't think or beileve disaters ratings support keeping their tiers the same when it measures their threat to something and not actual busting power. If a vast majority of feats, some even from high tier, fail to break 7-C then the majority of OPM is 7-C.
 
> Saitama who was slower tha the Tiger level Lightchord guy

I don't think that was him beung slower. If not for his enormous tooth pain he probably would've hit him. They are probably comparable speed wise though.
 
It's late here so only gonna say one response

@Qawsed

And who says he'll die? That's like a friendly rival going "You better not die" "You better not complain if you get too hurt." And I'm pretty sure Melzalgald would not just be arrogant and be worried upon the possibility of death considering he was horrified when he was about to die. So no. He is not expecting to die. No one is expecting him to die. He expected to live. He can tank the full/semi full force of that barrage. Simple.

Cool. We moved on from that topic already.

Citation kindly. And nope. No one calced it. But considering it's him just falling....


"I think" is the key word there. In OPM, getting into demon or dragon rank isn't easy. Many of the feats already exist yet you're putting them down. We've got Demon class threats bigger than mountains (Giant snow man) we've got S classes tanking the A city feat, we've got mid to low S classes (Suiryu) deflecting town level blasts (a casual attack from Demon class Chouse, considering he wasn't called Dragon level by Gouketsu), and many, others. Many of them turn Genos' outlier, into something that can exist.

Then there's already the preexisting scaling that connects scaling and multiple scaling which further explains the reason to why everyone got so high on the first place.


@ByAsura

That's a solid feat for Saitama. Not so much the other guy. He was suffering from a toothache, but then again he did react at the last second to face Saitama. So it might apply.

More reliable on the C class FTE feat, solid find Ryope
 
It was also severe strain, so a fodder level Saitama not even at full power can do that. It should scale to anyone with at least enough speed to keep up with the A-Classes or S-Classes who are explicitly shown to be far faster than average B-Level fodder, like Hammerhead.

It's also possibly higher since he ran several meters to the car after already running down the street and saved a kid from a car, appearing to use no effort doing so.
 
> He can tank the full/semi full force of that barrage

Considering how easy it was to damage him, he wouldn't have tanked anything. Just have been able to recover from the damage. Which he might not have been able to do anyways

> Citation kindly. And nope. No one calced it. But considering it's him just falling

Not the fall the air pressure wave from the first attack.Using his canon height the result were High 7-C to High 7-A. Not that it would scale to anyone either way.

> of the feats already exist yet you're putting them down

Because they don't exist, have context to them, or are outliers

> We've got Demon class threats bigger than mountains (Giant snow man)

Snowman is 1,000 meters tall and is made of snow. Not the most durable of material. Even then we see him do nothing. DSK could possibly hit harder than it and we would have no idea.

> we've got S classes tanking the A city feat

The didn't tank any of the bullets. They probably would've died. In fact they would've died even in the current power rating.

> got mid to low S classes (Suiryu) deflecting town level blasts (a casual attack from Demon class Chouse, considering he wasn't called Dragon level by Gouketsu)

The gap between that feat and Low 7-B (not even 7-B) is 9.76x. The gap between Choze's blast and baseline 7-B is a massive 61.51x. There's no reasonable scale to place anyone at 7-B or even Low 7-B from Choze.

> Many of them turn Genos' outlier

Please, name them
 
So, not sure what it's worth, but I did this for giant snowman:

I'm gonna treat this thing as two spheres, one taking up 2/3 of its height, and another taking 1/3.

Volume: (1.55*10^8+1.94*10^7)m^3 =1.744*10^8 m^3

For density, it should be comparable to Névé snow as it's made of several snowmen that were left out for considerable amounts of time, so I'll use 500 kg/m^3

500 kg/m^3*1.744*10^8 m^3=87 200 000 000 kilograms

So the average humans can run about 6.7 m/s and is 1.7 meters tall. So an average human can run 3.9411764705882353 times their height/s.

That would make giant snowman's speed 3.9411764705882353 km/s

(3.9411764705882353km/s)^2*87200000000kg/2= 6.77233218*10^17 joules or Mountain Level. If this were used it would actually be kinda consistent with that high 7A shockwave of beefcake's, considering beefcake's casual feats were only enough to put him at Demon level in the HA's eyes.

Of course that speed is kinda sketchy, considering this thing is snowman shaped, not human shaped.

So let's try Usain Bolt's top speed, since the thing should obviously be superhuman: 6.823404*10^12 joules or small town level

Randomly using low end fte speeds gives us: 5.1294964*10^13 joules or town level

Using 25 m/s because we never see it move outside the OP and it looks like it's moving about a 20th of its body length in its two seconds of time on camera gives us: 2.72500*10^13 joules joules barely town level.

Saying lol meteor speed gives us: 5.2756*10^18 joules or large mountain level

Yes, I'm kinda screwing around at this point because I realized late that we don't have a good way to find this thing's speed, and no speed means no KE.
 
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