One Punch-Man minor updates

[Nehz_XZX]

Punching the severaly damaged and weakened and mishappen Orochi Goo is not an AP feat. People are acting like that version of Orochi is 7-A when there is zero evidence, it's an entirely unquantifiable feat.

Okay.

 

[LordTracer]

This is also a Garou scenario, where Psykorochi was pretty much near-death at that point, so there is no reason for Pri-Pri Prisoner to scale. The argument that "Psykorochi is automatically above Psykos" does not work here, because Psykorochi has been beaten, twisted, squeezed, partially destroyed on a cellular level, pierced, blasted, and exhausted to the point of becoming a blob of flesh and meat.

Actually they were only a blob after Darkshine hit them, and at that point, Psykos straight-up abandoned Orochi’s body. When PPP hit her, she still had a humanoid-ish form.

 

[Ourosboros]

This is also a Garou scenario, where Psykorochi was pretty much near-death at that point, so there is no reason for Pri-Pri Prisoner to scale. The argument that "Psykorochi is automatically above Psykos" does not work here, because Psykorochi has been beaten, twisted, squeezed, partially destroyed on a cellular level, pierced, blasted, and exhausted to the point of becoming a blob of flesh and meat.

Okay, but how strong is near death Psykorochi? We're not scaling Puri Puri to High 6-A Psykorochi, but rather to the weakened combination of Psykos + Orochi who has some durability. If you want to use the calc for Psykos's jet AP that we do have, it's 1.49 megatons. Atomic proceeds to block a low 7-B attack with an atomic slash and hits Psykos with a more concentrated attack, the beeline slash. At the very least, Psykosjet's durability must be low 7-B scaling to its own feats or 7-B, scaling to Psykos. The fact that Tatsumaki resorted to a massive spear attack to destroy Goo Orochi also speaks to his remaining durability.

 

[USklaverei]

It wasn't a Dry DSK that preformed the feat, since he did so when it began to rain. While he wasn't fully hydrated yet, he was stronger than he was right before.

Yes, after that he got stronger and faster, however, even so he was unable to capture Sonic, who only avoided him because his attacks did nothing to him.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If you want to use the calc for Psykos's jet AP that we do have, it's 1.49 megatons.

He could scale to "At least Low 7-B". I assume his 7-B rating also comes from scaling to regular Psykos, so that would get axed along the "possibly 7-A".

The fact that Tatsumaki resorted to a massive spear attack to destroy Goo Orochi also speaks to his remaining durability.

Isn't Tatsumaki doing that to also destroy the remainder of the Monster Association base or am I remembering that scene wrong?

 

[Damage3245]

Right now, Hero Hunter Garou is High 7-C+, scaling to Spiral Incineration Cannon. According to the suggested changes, Hero Hunter Garou would be low 7-B pretty much all around because he tore off Post-superfight Genos's arm and this version of Genos has Low 7-B durability that is somewhat above 1.22 megatons.

Isn't Genos' arms detachable? I don't think Garou should scale that high just for ripping off his arm.

EDIT: Are there any objections to me removing those abilities from Blast?

 

[Ped2018]

Are there any objections to me removing those abilities from Blast?

from me, no

 

[Ourosboros]

Isn't Genos' arms detachable? I don't think Garou should scale that high just for ripping off his arm.

EDIT: Are there any objections to me removing those abilities from Blast?

No, the source is admittedly unreliable. Blast might have those abilities, but we need to be cautious what abilities we assign to him.

 

[LordTracer]

Isn't Genos' arms detachable? I don't think Garou should scale that high just for ripping off his arm.

EDIT: Are there any objections to me removing those abilities from Blast?

There’s bits of metal that flew off when Garou ripped it off and Genos had a shocked expression, so he definitely broke his arm.

And nope, I don’t think anyone would object having those abilities removed from Blast. While you’re at it, could you remove the “Is stated to be able to shoot beams out of his eyes” from the justification of Blast’s Energy Projection?

 

[Kachon123]

EDIT: Are there any objections to me removing those abilities from Blast?

No problems from me

 

[Damage3245]

Okay, I've removed those bits.

As for the Garou arm-ripping, I still think that wouldn't be enough to put him as Low 7-B. He was also super afraid of being hit by Genos' regular energy beams, so him scaling up to the Jet Drive Arrow makes no sense to me. Plus Genos' arm re-attached without any issues. It didn't seem majorly broken or damaged.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Copying this post from an earlier thread.

Even if Genos were only Large Town level+ in terms of physical ability, a peak Garou would vastly upscale from that, leading into Small City level.

The Garou at the time of fighting Genos was capable of keeping up with him, even clashing with him, halting his attacks, even the rocket-propelled ones, kicking him into the wall, and ripping off his arm, despite being virtually near-death as a result of poison, intense blood loss, stab wounds and bullet holes in his body, exhaustion, sickness (the fever mentioned earlier), his dwindling stamina resulting from his non-stop combat, and his broken physical condition, struggling to see, think, or even stand properly, and his rapidly diminishing strength. A broken, tattered, and physically inept Garou could keep up and put up a good fight against Genos, and because of that, a Garou in peak condition would significantly upscale, which makes sense in conjunction with my next points.



Garou did not beat Tanktop Master solely because he outclassed him in combat ability. Garou was able to withstand a Tanktop Tackle and land on his feet, and survived an essentially bloodlusted punch to the face from Tanktop Master before using Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist and pummeling him into a wall. Hell, after Tanktop Master got back up from his beating and attempted to protect his posse, Garou knocked him out with a casual strike to the face, without using the WSRSF. The Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist does not increase the user's strength, so yes, Garou did overpower Tanktop Master, with relative ease at that.

And, remember, Garou vs. Tanktop Master was at the beginning of his hero hunt. Garou has since grown much stronger as a result of his rapid growth and evolution over the course of the hero hunt. It only does not appear that way because, in his last few fights, he was already exhausted and sickly before being poisoned, stabbed, shot, and exhausted, leaving him far from his full strength.

There are also these arguments, Damage.

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, you have to remember that Garou was horrendously weakened at that point in time and was still capable of damaging Genos.

 

[Damage3245]

See, I don't think Garou should vastly upscale from that. Garou was weakened, sure, but I don't see enough proof that he was weakened enough to warrant upscaling to the next tier.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You're right. Genos' Large Town level+ rating isn't high enough for Garou to upscale directly into Small City level, but he'd be "At least Large Town level+".

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Wait, why is Geno's suddenly becoming High 7-C+?

 

[LordTracer]

Garou isn’t just upscaling from that, it’s also the fact that he was able to damage Genos while weakened.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Wait, why is Geno's suddenly becoming High 7-C+?

?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is also a Garou scenario, where Psykorochi was pretty much near-death at that point, so there is no reason for Pri-Pri Prisoner to scale. The argument that "Psykorochi is automatically above Psykos" does not work here, because Psykorochi has been beaten, twisted, squeezed, partially destroyed on a cellular level, pierced, blasted, and exhausted to the point of becoming a blob of flesh and meat.

Psykorochi also never recovered to her peak state after Tatsumaki exploded her from the inside. She could still fight her sure but she was progressively weakened throughout the fight.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Okay, but how strong is near death Psykorochi? We're not scaling Puri Puri to High 6-A Psykorochi, but rather to the weakened combination of Psykos + Orochi who has some durability. If you want to use the calc for Psykos's jet AP that we do have, it's 1.49 megatons. Atomic proceeds to block a low 7-B attack with an atomic slash and hits Psykos with a more concentrated attack, the beeline slash. At the very least, Psykosjet's durability must be low 7-B scaling to its own feats or 7-B, scaling to Psykos. The fact that Tatsumaki resorted to a massive spear attack to destroy Goo Orochi also speaks to his remaining durability.

If the feat is Low 7-B why not use that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also there is literally no way that Psykojet isn’t stronger than Psykos because it’s still Psykos + Orochi. 1 + 1 doesn’t equal 0.5.

Meaningless. Psykos is damaged and deprived of power. Can you show a single feat that validates this argument. Orochi is also a bunch of mishappen goop with most of his body being destroyed on a cellular level. Your statement is categorically misleading.

 

[LordTracer]

I already agreed on PPP losing the 7-A+, so like

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Monke?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I already agreed on PPP losing the 7-A+, so like

No I take an issue with using "Lol they beat up Orochi goo so they scale" AT ALL

Another example is that Bang and Bomb did significantly more damage to the Orochi Goop with the Cross Fang Dragon Slayer Fist than they did to Overgrown Rover with the same attack (Which is to say, none at all in that case).

 

[LordTracer]

Monke?

It’s something I do on Discord, ignore it

 

[LordTracer]

No I take an issue with using "Lol they beat up Orochi goo so they scale" AT ALL

Another example is that Bang and Bomb did significantly more damage to the Orochi Goop with the Cross Fang Dragon Slayer Fist than they did to Overgrown Rover with the same attack (Which is to say, none at all in that case).

Atomic Samurai slashed Psykos while she was still mostly humanoid and clashing with the Promoted Rook, at the absolute least, he would scale.

Bang and Bomb squishing Orochi isn’t even the main reason for their tier, only Darkshine and PPP harmed a “mostly goo” Psykorochi.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Atomic Samurai slashed Psykos while she was still mostly humanoid and clashing with the Promoted Rook, at the absolute least, he would scale.

Bang and Bomb squishing Orochi isn’t even the main reason for their tier, only Darkshine and PPP harmed a “mostly goo” Psykorochi.

See I don't think Psykoplane should be 7-A at all. Atomic Samurai's feat was calced at Low 7-B which is consistent with other S-Class feats.

AS for Bang and Bomb, my point is that it shows that Goo Orochi is objectively weaker than Rover.

 

[LordTracer]

And why exactly would Psykojet be weaker than base Psykos?

 

[LordTracer]

Actually, better question, why would it be weaker than Gyoro Gyoro?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And why exactly would Psykojet be weaker than base Psykos?

Because she takes this form when she is beaten, battered, exhausted, severely damaged, deprived of her power source, and with most of Orochi's body destroyed on a cellular level.

She takes the form specifically to flee and nothing more.

 

[LordTracer]

Yes, this shows that Psykorochi is weakened. That’s why she’s not High 6-A anymore. But what part of that makes this still fused Psykos weaker than her unfused self or her meat puppet? Also Orochi is still connected to her, so it’s still Psykos + Orochi. Even damaged, Orochi’s existence is worth something (even though you seemto think it’s worth literally nothing), so it would still be greater than base Psykos.

And no, she took that form to consume blood people in the city, as was directly stated. Saying she took the form to run away and nothing more is dishonest.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes, this shows that Psykorochi is weakened. That’s why she’s not High 6-A anymore. But what part of that makes this still fused Psykos weaker than her unfused self or her meat puppet? Also Orochi is still connected to her, so it’s still Psykos + Orochi. Even damaged, Orochi’s existence is worth something (even though you seemto think it’s worth literally nothing), so it would still be greater than base Psykos.

I already explained. Is there evidence to assume this ****** up form is stronger than either.

I don't cre if Orochi is fused Orochi was ****** up too he's practically dead.

 

[Kachon123]

im just sitting here eating popcorn watching this back and forth xD

 

[LordTracer]

Hm, yes, because it is still Psykos with Orochi added onto her. There is no way that it’s weaker than base Psykos or Gyoro Gyoro, especially when literally nothing implies such a thing. Plus Psykorochi isn’t even that “****** up” considering she is still capable of functioning, fighting, and even in that state, she considered herself “the apex of evolution.” Why exactly would she think that if she was weaker than her meat puppet that didn’t even compare to her base form?

That’s just blatantly incorrect. Before Psykos transforms into a jet, you can see Orochi and he’s still very sentient, nowhere near dead or even unconscious. And even if you said Orochi was only worth 0.00000000000000001 joule in this equation, that would still make Psykorochi stronger than base Psykos.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So what's the updates on the speed thus far? And can someone pls explain to me why Genos is suddenly getting downgraded to High 7-C+ and not Low 7-B?

 

[LordTracer]

He’s not fully downgraded, it’s just that his normal attacks are High 7-C+ while his dura and AP with charged attacks stays at Low 7-B.

As for speed, I don’t think we’ve heard back from Qawsdef yet.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Qawsed disapproved of some but it said it was fine for kabuto, the ninja duo, Boros and Atomic samurai I think.

What about Garou?

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah but I explained that Sonic was blitzing the version of DSK that performed the MHS feat, and I don’t think he said anything after that.

I think Human Garou should be ‘High 7-C+, up to Low 7-B,’ but Damage was against Low 7-B because he thinks Garou ripping Genos’ arm off isn’t enough to say he scales to Genos’ dura.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Wouldn't "likely higher" work? Since he was fairly injured against Genos

 

[LordTracer]

Probably? I don’t see why he wouldn’t be Low 7-B since he straight up tore Genos’ arm off but meh.

Also was Garou a Half-Monster against Royal Ripper and Bug God? Cause if not, he should’ve ended up at Low 7-B by then just because of his strength increasing.