One Piece Pre-Timeskip AP Scaling

[KingTempest]

One Piece Pre-Timeskip Topics to Talk About

Doriki Scaling.
We found out that one of the old justifications for Linear Doriki was a mistranslation, so we need a new justification or we don't count it as linear.

Asura 3x Multiplier scaling revision.
Asura had a random 3x multiplier. That is gone from Zoro's profile, but a good amount of people scale to that via the current profiles, so that needs to get revised.

Luffy's Marineford scaling needs to be revised, since there are a lot of feats.

Discussion of databook statements not used in scaling.

How does Luffy punching apart the clouds of Skypiea fit in scaling?
Knock-Up-Stream calc is in the works, it would scale to Blackbeard and his crew for taking the full yield (being in the middle of it).

This thread's OP should be taken into consideration

https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-skypea-arc-revision.111161/

Accepted Calcs

• Buchi's Flying Drop Kick: Scales to High 8-C+ characters (8.52 Tons)
• The Buggy Bomb: This 8-B rating scales only to the Buggy Bomb (13.553 Tons).
• Crocodile's Desert Spada: Scales to 8-A characters (446.845 Tons).
• Gomu Gomu no Storm: Scales only to Alabasta Arc's Luffy 8-A+ Rapid Firing Techniques (649.24 Tons).
• Wyper's Burn Bazooka: Scales to the Low 7-C characters (1.97 Kilotons).
• Enel's El Thor: Scales to 7-C characters (35.411 Kilotons).
• Asgard Moria Smash: Scales to the lower Low 7-B characters (1.27395 Megatons).
• Kuma's Ursa Shock: Scales to the higher Low 7-B characters (1.744 Megatons).
• Aokiji's Ice Age: Scales to the 7-A characters (419.7 Megatons).

KingTempest16/One Piece AP (Pre Timeskip)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[unworthy]

Since Skypea size needs to be re-visited, i would like to talk about raigo scaling to OP-verse since imo, is contradictory that enel with ship that uses his own energy has more AP than the whole OP-verse.

Ark maxim fuction according to Viz media.

Spoiler: Ark Maxim

Basically Ark maxim creates storm clouds, and these storm clouds amplify the volts that Enel put on them.

This is no different from what Nami does, but on a small scale (You need to read the whole chapter)
One Piece Chapter 192 (***********.com)
It can be seen that a small ball of electricity that only tickled miss doublefinger, but with the storm cloud its energy is amplified and becomes a more powerfuls lightnings capable of hurting miss doublefinger.
So the thunders clouds increases the volts and the amount energy (Thats why that single ball of electricity was able to become multiples lightnings bolts, this is whats happens to enel too, he can just create one lightning bolt at the time)

Let's go back to Enel, as I mentioned, Enel does the same thing as Nami but on a large scale, Ark maxim crates the storm clouds with Enels heat and the water he has inside some machines inside of it

here you can see that enels needs to put volts on the clouds to amplify the amount of volts/energy he used initially, by the storm clouds, here too, and in basically any occasion that enel uses those storms clouds

What's all this about? because Enel says his clouds are going to turn into dozens (x24 low end) lightningbolts at his biding (binding=adding some volts on the super dense storm clouds)

So basically storm clouds increase the energy/voltage by dozens of times the voltage/energy that Enel initially binded on them.

This makes sense too, because Enel without ark maxim, complety erased bilka, his hometown island.
One Piece Chapter 279 Page 3 (***********.com)
One Piece Chapter 279 Page 4 (***********.com)
One Piece Chapter 283 Page 13 (***********.com)

I'll just comment this for now, by seeing how you react, i will comment or add other arguments on it.

 

[KobsterHope07]

All I will say for now is that there is another Buggy Bomb’s calc that Calaca did that resulted at City Block level+ for the buildings destruction the bomb did before it exploded: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Calaca/Buggy_Bomb_AP_revision

As for scaling, the Buggy Bomb will scale to it. And in Chapter 14 or 15, Luffy was able to withstand and reflect back the bomb away. Take that how you will

 

[Tetsucabrah]

What happened to Calaca anyways

 

[KingTempest]

What happened to Calaca anyways

Vanished from the wiki.

Since Skypea size needs to be re-visited, i would like to talk about raigo scaling to OP-verse since imo, is contradictory that enel with ship that uses his own energy has more AP than the whole OP-verse.

Ark maxim fuction according to Viz media.

Spoiler: Ark Maxim

Basically Ark maxim creates storm clouds, and these storm clouds amplify the volts that Enel put on them.

This is no different from what Nami does, but on a small scale (You need to read the whole chapter)
One Piece Chapter 192 (***********.com)
It can be seen that a small ball of electricity that only tickled miss doublefinger, but with the storm cloud its energy is amplified and becomes a more powerfuls lightnings capable of hurting miss doublefinger.
So the thunders clouds increases the volts and the amount energy (Thats why that single ball of electricity was able to become multiples lightnings bolts, this is whats happens to enel too, he can just create one lightning bolt at the time)

Let's go back to Enel, as I mentioned, Enel does the same thing as Nami but on a large scale, Ark maxim crates the storm clouds with Enels heat and the water he has inside some machines inside of it

here you can see that enels needs to put volts on the clouds to amplify the amount of volts/energy he used initially, by the storm clouds, here too, and in basically any occasion that enel uses those storms clouds

What's all this about? because Enel says his clouds are going to turn into dozens (x24 low end) lightningbolts at his biding (binding=adding some volts on the super dense storm clouds)

So basically storm clouds increase the energy/voltage by dozens of times the voltage/energy that Enel initially binded on them.

This makes sense too, because Enel without ark maxim, complety erased bilka, his hometown island.
One Piece Chapter 279 Page 3 (***********.com)
One Piece Chapter 279 Page 4 (***********.com)
One Piece Chapter 283 Page 13 (***********.com)

I'll just comment this for now, by seeing how you react, i will comment or add other arguments on it.

@unworthy I see a lot that I agree with, it'll take me some thought though to see how we can work w/ that

All I will say for now is that there is another Buggy Bomb’s calc that Calaca did that resulted at City Block level+ for the buildings destruction the bomb did before it exploded: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Calaca/Buggy_Bomb_AP_revision

As for scaling, the Buggy Bomb will scale to it. And in Chapter 14 or 15, Luffy was able to withstand and reflect back the bomb away. Take that how you will

Rubber body, doesn't count.

 

[KobsterHope07]

What happened to Calaca anyways

I haven’t asked him on Discord, but I assumed he’s either taking a break or got tired of the site.

 

[unworthy]

Rubber body, doesn't count.

Im very sure that Buggy tanked his own buggy bomb if my memory does not fail.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

What Marineford feats does Luffy scale to btw?

 

[KingTempest]

What Marineford feats does Luffy scale to btw?

I quote @Dr.Fix

Even before MF he decked Teach and drew blood. He also remained conscious after Teach countered even though his Rubber was turned off. At MF he absorbed many hits from Kizaru and others. Now granted he was damaged but endurance can only account for so much and a difference of at least 100 is not reasonable to have him so low.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

So where would that put him? Cause 7-A Pre skip Luffy is mad cap.

 

[KingTempest]

So where would that put him? Cause 7-A Pre skip Luffy is mad cap.

Anything is possible, I'm waiting for more input from the more knowledgeable members

 

[XDragnoir]

So where would that put him? Cause 7-A Pre skip Luffy is mad cap.

7A is very unlikely since we are going to end pre-timeskip before going to post-timeskip, where the scaling, calcs and everything related to 7A is.

And it seems scaling based in positions aren't valid anymore, so i don't even know why Teach or Kizaru would be 7A.

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

Question: Couldn't a decent portion of East Blue characters scale to 8-B via being stronger than Buchi who has a 8.5 ton feat which is only 1.3x away from baseline 8-B?

 

[XDragnoir]

I think it is better to leave everyone in high-end H8C than start to upscale some characters to the next tier.

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

I think it is better to leave everyone in high-end H8C than start to upscale some characters to the next tier.

But why? If they have evidence to upscale then why not?

 

[Damage3245]

Question: Couldn't a decent portion of East Blue characters scale to 8-B via being stronger than Buchi who has a 8.5 ton feat which is only 1.3x away from baseline 8-B?

But why? If they have evidence to upscale then why not?

Why upscale at all? What's wrong with just scaling to that value?

I hate this trend of trying to make characters shoot up to the next tier. It's so ridiculously arbitrary.

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

Why upscale at all? What's wrong with just scaling to that value?

I hate this trend of trying to make characters shoot up to the next tier. It's so ridiculously arbitrary.

Hold up no need to be rude I was just asking a simple question since I'm a bit new to One Piece scaling. I just finished East Blue not too long ago and was wondering why some characters like Arlong for instance aren't rated as 8-B when they're stronger than Buchi who is already pretty far into High 8-C.

 

[Stefano4444]

There are also two other feats, Luffy disperding the Raigo and Crocodile's sandstorm at Alabasta.

Luffy Disperse Raigo

vsbattles.fandom.com

Luffy's final feats in Skypiea

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Stefano4444]

Also, why Kuma's Ursa Shock is no longer usable?

 

[Eminiteable]

Also, why Kuma's Ursa Shock is no longer usable?

The method became unusable I think

 

[Eminiteable]

About Luffy scaling in marineford, he shouldn't scale to Kizaru at the very least since otherwise we would scale the supernova at sabaody for taking his kicks and remaining conscious, also although Kizaru's kicks are moving at light speed they would still be blunt force.

 

[Stefano4444]

How does Luffy punching apart the clouds of Skypiea fit in scaling?

What do you mean by that? Like if Luffy's feat should be considered an outlier or who should scale?

For the first case, i don't think it should be considered an outlier, it isn't so far above other feats to be a possibility.

For the latter case, anyone who was comparable to Skypeia Arc Luffy should scale meaning Enel, Zoro, Sanji, Wyper, Ohm and Nico Robin would be High 7-C.

 

[Damage3245]

I think Luffy's rating for breaking the clouds should be a conditional feat, if it is useable at all. I think it was only possible due to the Golden Ball he had over his arm, and that's likely why it is significantly above his other feats.

 

[Stefano4444]

The Golden Ball only allowed Luffy to eliminate the electricity inside the Raigo, it didn't make him physically stronger.

The explosion and consecutive dispersion of the Raigo and the surrounding clouds come from Luffy's strength alone.

 

[unworthy]

About Luffy scaling in marineford, he shouldn't scale to Kizaru at the very least since otherwise we would scale the supernova at sabaody for taking his kicks and remaining conscious, also although Kizaru's kicks are moving at light speed they would still be blunt force.

Im very sure noneone appart from Luffy tanked Kizaru kicks.

Hawkins just because his death denied ability.
Uroge got oneshoted, he never come back to fight him after he got kicked
Same with X-Drake, and Apoo.

Yeah they survive, but they didnt tank Kizaru's kicks unlike Luffy did in MF.

There are also two other feats, Luffy disperding the Raigo and Crocodile's sandstorm at Alabasta.

Luffy Disperse Raigo

vsbattles.fandom.com

Luffy's final feats in Skypiea

vsbattles.fandom.com

This would be much higher when you re-visit skypea Size.

 

[Eminiteable]

Yeah they survive, but they didnt tank Kizaru's kicks unlike Luffy did in MF.

Then luffy tanking them kicks is just due to his blunt force resistance.

 

[KingTempest]

Then luffy tanking them kicks is just due to his blunt force resistance.

Kizaru has Haki bro, it turned off his blunt force resistance.

 

[KingTempest]

I think Luffy's rating for breaking the clouds should be a conditional feat, if it is useable at all. I think it was only possible due to the Golden Ball he had over his arm, and that's likely why it is significantly above his other feats.

The Golden Ball only allowed Luffy to eliminate the electricity inside the Raigo, it didn't make him physically stronger.

The explosion and consecutive dispersion of the Raigo and the surrounding clouds come from Luffy's strength alone.

It should definitely scale to Luffy.
The golden ball held Luffy's strength back, since he had a 300 ton ball stuck on his hand. @Stefano4444 explained it perfectly.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Kizaru has Haki bro, it turned off his blunt force resistance.

They all had Haki with the exception of Teach who has a backdoor pass.

 

[Eminiteable]

Blackbeard is confirmed to have haki as well, on his vivre card.

The issue is assuming these characters used haki.

 

[KingTempest]

Blackbeard is confirmed to have haki as well, on his vivre card.

The issue is assuming these characters used haki.

Luffy took a hit from Sengoku but he couldn't take a hit from Kizaru.

Basic assumption
Sengoku can't put Haki through his Buddha's arm, while Kizaru can put it through his leg.

Are we taking the "Rayleigh is 100x stronger than you" at face value?

 

[Eminiteable]

Luffy took a hit from Sengoku but he couldn't take a hit from Kizaru.

Basic assumption
Sengoku can't put Haki through his Buddha's arm, while Kizaru can put it through his leg.

he took hits from both and bled from both, but the assumption that either of these two blunt force attack had to use haki is unsupported.

Are we taking the "Rayleigh is 100x stronger than you" at face value?

Why wouldn't we?

 

[unworthy]

Then luffy tanking them kicks is just due to his blunt force resistance.

Kizaru has haki.

 

[Eminiteable]

Kizaru has haki.

Him having haki isn't confirmation that he used haki.

 

[unworthy]

Him having haki isn't confirmation that he used haki.

Unless kizaru is dumb enough to attack a rubber human with blunt force inmunity without using haki, he needed haki to deal damage.

Also Luffy in MF not only tanked attacks from Kizaru, but also from Aokiji, and Mihawk.

 

[Eminiteable]

Unless kizaru is dumb enough to attack a rubber human with blunt force inmunity without using haki, he needed haki to deal damage.

Luffy doesn't have blunt force immunity, signified by the fact he was one shot by blunt force recently in Wano, he doesn't need haki to damage.

Also Luffy in MF not only tanked attacks from Kizaru, but also from Aokiji, and Mihawk.

in that case just like it's already applied, we don't scale Luffy due to plot induced stupidity.

 

[unworthy]

Luffy doesn't have blunt force immunity, signified by the fact he was one shot by blunt force recently in Wano, he doesn't need haki to damage.

¿?
Luffy has blunt force inmunity, he said during several intances in the manga, the most popular one when Shadows Asgard Moriah crushed him with several punches with the power to split his ship each one of them, Luffy said that those blows dont work on him, due him being made of rubber.

When did he get oneshot in Wano with blunt force without haki?

 

[KingTempest]

Also Luffy in MF not only tanked attacks from Kizaru, but also from Aokiji, and Mihawk.

Mihawk never landed hits on Luffy, Aokiji's ice wouldn't scale since it went directly through his body.

Luffy doesn't have blunt force immunity, signified by the fact he was one shot by blunt force recently in Wano, he doesn't need haki to damage.

The best assumption is that Kaido had Haki, since he knew what Buso Haki was against the scabbards and such, plus he could match Linlin, a Buso user.

in that case just like it's already applied, we don't scale Luffy due to plot induced stupidity.

PiS is a last case scenario

 

[Eminiteable]

The best assumption is that Kaido had Haki, since he knew what Buso Haki was against the scabbards and such, plus he could match Linlin, a Buso user.

Nope, knowing what haki is doesn't mean you automatically have it. He matched her but we have no evidence she used haki in the clash.

Mihawk never landed hits on Luffy, Aokiji's ice wouldn't scale since it went directly through his body.

Mihawk landed plenty of hits on Luffy, the issue is they weren't fatal and were casual slashes. But we also know that if Luffy tried attacking Mihawk directly then he would have lost both arms easily, doesn't really seem like reason enough to scale.

 

[unworthy]

Mihawk never landed hits on Luffy