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One Piece Pre-Timeskip AP Scaling

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There's no evidence he was using Haki during the fight. And if he was, why didn't he bypass Luffy's blunt force resistance sooner than near the end?
The haki can be used unconsciously without training, that's what happened with Lucci.

Luffy's internal organs are rubber, so that makes no difference. The impact dial is a shockwave.

it doesnt matter if luffy's organs are rubber or not, the point is that Oda states that with internal damage you can somehow hurt Luffy a bypass his blunt force inmunity.
More:
0314-013.png
0314-014.png

I dont see damage or blood on that scan.
 
That was to preoccupy him from getting up. He punched him w/ the same thing earlier and it did no damage.

Foxy Flat out said the entire fight that his hits didn't do anything, which is why he switched to spikey gloves after.
He blatantly did damage
it doesnt matter if luffy's organs are rubber or not, the point is that Oda states that with internal damage you can somehow hurt Luffy a bypass his blunt force inmunity.
When did he state that? (Lucci's Rokuogan is haki allowing it to harm him.)
I dont see damage or blood on that scan.
You're blind then
 
Anyways I've proven Luffy can be hurt by blunt force thus proving it's not an immunity but a resistance. Now I'll be waiting for the proof that Kaido has haki, was using haki as well as the proof that Kizaru and Sengoku used haki against Luffy. Otherwise you'll concede via burden of rejoinder.
 
A couple things while I have time

1) No Luffy doesn't have immunity. No one on the forum does. Its a NLF issue, not a slight on Luffy. He could tank every punch in the series and still just have resistance.

2) Saying they didn't show haki is academically dishonest seeing as Oda didn't draw haki Pre-TS. We instead have to go by what was shown happeneing such as rubber being bypassed. Also keep in mind the profiles are not supposed to reflect haki so if they did use it on Luffy that makes their ratings (and by extention Luffy's) even higher.
 
This "no evidence" bs is annoying.

I know. The burden of proof can be annoying.

But we tend make that a requirement.

For Luffy Post-Timeskip we know he has Haki, that he demonstrated Haki before, and that no alternative explanation was given for him hurting Caeser other than him using Haki (which we see him using against Caeser multiple times, not just once).
 
Well, we actually get confirmation that the Noro Beams actually allow blunt force against Rubber men
Yes because multiple blunt force attacks to hit at the same time, making up the strength difference to overcome his resistance.
It destroy your spinal cord.
And it does that with blunt force
Im not blind theres is not blood or damage on that scan, thats why doxy used the spicky guantlets.
Esw4dEJXUAM7omy
 
I know. The burden of proof can be annoying.

But we tend make that a requirement.

For Luffy Post-Timeskip we know he has Haki, that he demonstrated Haki before, and that no alternative explanation was given for him hurting Caeser other than him using Haki (which we see him using against Caeser multiple times, not just once).
For Rob Lucci, we know he has haki.

Zoro used Ryuo against Hyouzou and said "Tekkai", which all Rokushiki users use.

There is no alternative explanation for him hurting Luffy other than Haki.

And we can't see visual proof pre timeskip, so we can't just shut it down.

Rayleigh didn't show Buso when he removed Camie's collar pre timeskip, but when we see it again in a flashback post timeskip, we see Buso. We don't need a statement every 5 seconds.
 
I haven't seen anything that states that Rokuogan involves the use of Haki.
It's not directly stated, but its function is the same as the impact dial, which destroys the body from inside, the same as it does the advanced CoA.
 
Again, where are you are seeing the damage or the blood there?
Already posted the official colored scans, you most definitely can see the blood, @Damage3245 told me to not call you blind, the least you can do is not be purposefully ignorant.
stop brigging here non-official translations.
I was just going by what Kingtempest posted, Stephan paul's translations for the scene say this:

"Foxy: The punches themselves aren't that much.
I'm sure you understand, Rubberman!!!
3
2
1..."

this doesn't imply they did no damage (as we blatantly see they do), just not much (which is why he switched on to other methods for more critical damage:
0314-018.png

no, is a energy attack.
Checked Satori & Wyper's profiles and no it's not an energy attack.
 
We aren't told when Rob Lucci gained usage of Haki. It could have been after the defeat in Enies Lobby.
Damage.

The databook says that the training for Rokushiki is the same as haki.
Rob Lucci could use Rokushiki since he was a child.

We have Title Pages where we see what people do while the main story was going on.
Rob Lucci was injured the entire time after Enies Lobby.

Rob Lucci hit Luffy with a finger pistol and it didn't do anything.
Next time he fights a much stronger Luffy, he kicks him in his face and leaves a mark.
You really wanna tell me nothing happened between then?

Rayleigh said that the 2 years wasn't enough to learn the basics of Haki. The people that we see with Haki now are prodigies, they don't count (Luffy had random future sight glimpses pre timeskip + CoC and Zoro used Ryuo before they knew what Haki was).

It's not directly stated, but its function is the same as the impact dial, which destroys the body from inside, the same as it does the advanced CoA.
No.

Lucci can use Haki regularly. Rokuogan isn't Haki specialized, all of it is Haki.
 
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Already posted the official colored scans, you most definitely can see the blood, @Damage3245 told me to not call me blind, the least you can do is not be purposefully ignorant.

I dont see blood in the colored manga, but OK.

this doesn't imply they did no damage (as we blatantly see they do), just not much

That does not imply that they did damage either.

how can you think that Foxy with blunt force can hurt Luffy, but Shadow Asgard Moria can't hurt him at all.

Are you going to debate that Foxy has more AP than Moria with 1000 shadows?

This doesn't make any sense, if Foxy hurt luffy (which I don't really see) that would be a simple outlier or narrative inconsistency, because Luffy all over the Manga makes very clear that the blows don't work on him.

Checked Satori & Wyper's profiles and no it's not an energy attack.

What about satori and wyper profiles? this is CRT
Why is no a energy attack, even is if a shockwave it has the properties of destroying you body, is not stated that it does that with blunt force.
 
It's not directly stated, but its function is the same as the impact dial, which destroys the body from inside, the same as it does the advanced CoA.
Right - but the Impact Dial isn't Haki either.

Damaging Luffy internally through blunt force doesn't mean he was using Haki to do it.
 
Since Skypea size needs to be re-visited, i would like to talk about raigo scaling to OP-verse since imo, is contradictory that enel with ship that uses his own energy has more AP than the whole OP-verse.

Ark maxim fuction according to Viz media.
0281-007.png

Basically Ark maxim creates storm clouds, and these storm clouds amplify the volts that Enel put on them.

This is no different from what Nami does, but on a small scale (You need to read the whole chapter)
One Piece Chapter 192 (***********.com)
It can be seen that a small ball of electricity that only tickled miss doublefinger, but with the storm cloud its energy is amplified and becomes a more powerfuls lightnings capable of hurting miss doublefinger.
So the thunders clouds increases the volts and the amount energy (Thats why that single ball of electricity was able to become multiples lightnings bolts, this is whats happens to enel too, he can just create one lightning bolt at the time)

Let's go back to Enel, as I mentioned, Enel does the same thing as Nami but on a large scale, Ark maxim crates the storm clouds with Enels heat and the water he has inside some machines inside of it

here you can see that enels needs to put volts on the clouds to amplify the amount of volts/energy he used initially, by the storm clouds, here too, and in basically any occasion that enel uses those storms clouds

What's all this about? because Enel says his clouds are going to turn into dozens (x24 low end) lightningbolts at his biding (binding=adding some volts on the super dense storm clouds)

So basically storm clouds increase the energy/voltage by dozens of times the voltage/energy that Enel initially binded on them.

This makes sense too, because Enel without ark maxim, complety erased bilka, his hometown island.
One Piece Chapter 279 Page 3 (***********.com)
One Piece Chapter 279 Page 4 (***********.com)
One Piece Chapter 283 Page 13 (***********.com)

I'll just comment this for now, by seeing how you react, i will comment or add other arguments on it.

So what about this?
 
That does not imply that they did damage either.

how can you think that Foxy with blunt force can hurt Luffy, but Shadow Asgard Moria can't hurt him at all.

Are you going to debate that Foxy has more AP than Moria with 1000 shadows?

This doesn't make any sense, if Foxy hurt luffy (which I don't really see) that would be a simple outlier or narrative inconsistency, because Luffy all over the Manga makes very clear that the blows don't work on him.
We see it do damage so we know it did.

This just means Luffy's resistance is proportionate to his durability; foxy unleashed countless punches all at once while Moriah punched him once.
 
his just means Luffy's resistance is proportionate to his durability; foxy unleashed countless punches all at once while Moriah punched him once

How countless punches of Foxy are comparable to one punch from Shadows Asgards Moria?
 
They aren't. Luffy gets stronger every arc and proportionally more durable too.
Yes. This.

It's why Luffy can get hurt by a kick in the face from Captain Kuro, but by the Thriller Bark arc he can withstand Gecko Moriah's island-shattering punch (thanks to his increased durability & blunt force resistance).
 
but there are any indications of Luffy getting stronger each arc during the time-skip before Ennies Lobby
 
I'm pretty sure there's a statement from Oda that all the strawhats get stronger every arc. But even if that statement didn't exist, it's a shonen. Of course the main cast is gonna get stronger.
 
I'll make a statement.

This thread was opened for many reasons.
  1. Via @XDragnoir's CRT, we've removed the 3x multiplier for Asura.
  2. Via me and @Eminiteable's constant debates, we've found out that the current justification for linear Doriki is null and void.
  3. Via @Dr.Fix, he wants to implement Marineford upgrades for Luffy.
  4. Via @unworthy, he wants to bring up Skypiea.
I made a calc for the Knock-Up Stream which needs to be revised, as I failed to recognize that the merry had a confirmed width almost 4x what I calced it to be, so I need to revise that.

I suggest we find out how to sort the 4 things in order of difficulty.
  1. Asura scaling. Not that many people scale to Asura. We need to find out who scales to Asura, remove their justification, and find a new justification stat.
  2. We need to refer to the Marineford upgrades and see what needs to be changed.
  3. We talk about Skypiea. It's not difficult, just time consuming.
  4. Doriki debate and see if that fits.
We apply upgrades and sandboxes after we get everything done, since this is clearly not in order.
 
I'm in agreement with keeping things focused and following those steps, but with the recommendations that we switch the places of the Doriki debate and the Marineford upgrades.
 
I'm in agreement with keeping things focused and following those steps, but with the recommendations that we switch the places of the Doriki debate and the Marineford upgrades.
I'm fine w/ that.
 
Thanks Emit

Knock Up Stream calc has been updated.
 
I'd like to throw in something I mentioned on a previous thread. It makes sense that the strawhats get stronger with every arc now that we know about Haki. Rayleigh explicitly states that Haki blooms (Grows stronger) in intense situations (Life or death ones). and as zoro said in enies lobby the crew continued to survive and overcome life and death situations and grow stronger from it. its supported by blackbeard saying luffys haki grew stronger in impel down.
 
Regarding Doriki scaling no longer applying here's some scaling chains i made (dunno if they're all entirely accurate since I skimmed through these three arcs to create the chain):
 
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