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One Piece: Pre-Timeskip AP Revision

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Tetsucabrah said:
Exactly. Giving Usopp the light fruit isn't gonna give him Kizaru level AP.
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Kizaru's AP is 68 Teratons. This is 240 Megatons from the fruit alone. Did you literally read the post?

Yes, giving Usopp the light fruit will give him lightspeed, and lasers capable of accomplishing similar explosions. (When he got the hang of the fruit, that is)
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Yes, giving Usopp the light fruit will give him lightspeed, and lasers capable of accomplishing similar explosions. (When he got the hang of the fruit, that is)
Click to expand...
Yes. It is the light fruit, lightspeed comes with the territory.

And no there's no proof the explosions are as strong as Kizaru's.
 
Your proof is Drake saying "Woah that's Kizaru's laser."
Don't act like it's some flawless argument.

He's clearly saying it's the same ability. Again that does not mean it has the same level of power.
 
Tetsucabrah said:
Your proof is Drake saying "Woah that's Kizaru's laser."
Click to expand...
Learn to read.

Drake: "That was Kizaru's "laser"...! (Vegapunk... In addition to Bartholomew Kuma's Body... You reproduced Kizaru's ability...!!?)"
Click to expand...
GodlyCharmander said:
Vegapunk can mimic the abilities of the devil fruits to an extreme accuracy, this was shown with Momo's DF, which is nearly equal to Kaidou's devil fruit, but his fruit is still considering a failure for not being close enough. If it was used in technology, it definitely have the same power as the devil fruit. Drake even says flat out, "That is Kizaru's laser". Not like his laser, not similar to his laser, just his devil fruit's laser.
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In what universe is that "my only proof", stop acting like you're bringing anything up other than barking "no." to my point over and over.

It isn't Kizaru's AP. It's the yield of the devil fruit. Which is replicated inside the pacifista.
 
Since when do Devil fruits have baseline AP?
I've been rereading multiple arcs and don't recall anything like that.

Also nearly equal to Kaido's fruit?
Momo barely cushioned the fall of Onigashima at the last moment, Kaido carried the island probably dozens of kilometers.
 
Taking in fact even tho momo seiryu is considered a failure, it still was capable of holding onigashima from falling just by the sheer power of the fruit, i don't see how kizaru laser being replicated would be a problem considering the Pacificista lasers replication was not even said once to be a failure like momo fruit was, but I'm gonna keep my shoes on my boots and just sit to see where this is going
 
Tetsucabrah said:
Since when do Devil fruits have baseline AP?
I've been rereading multiple arcs and don't recall anything like that.
Click to expand...
What? Where is the suggestion that fruit's elements can get any weaker? Bartholomew's fruit isn't becoming glass level just because you gave it to a toddler.

The insane suggestion that a fruit's power output is dependent on the user is honestly weird. The fact you expect me to prove this confirmation bias wrong is weirder. The energy of the light given by the devil fruit is x. Thus anyone who has access to said devil fruit would yield at least x through said Devil Fruit's abilities.

Also, your Momo and Kaidou example is just a non-factor. Flame Clouds are dependent on the user's stamina. GUeSs WhO HaS mOrE?
 
Also there's no way the Pacifista lasers are equal in power to Kizaru's anyways. Where's the proof of that?
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0537-02_-_Pacifista_2.jpg

The most terrifying "human weapon" ever developed by the genius D. Vegapunk!

An unfinished "human weapon" developed by the genius naval scientist D. Vegapunk, which is still being improved. Bartholomew Kuma was used as the test subject for the weapon, and the laser of Yellow Monkey is mounted in three places on his mouth and hands. Despite its name meaning "pacifist," even the prototype can easily overpower pirates worth more than a hundred million. When it is completed, it will pose an unprecedented threat...
Click to expand...
ONE-PIECE-magazine-Vol-10-p074-ONE-PIECE-a-Kraa.jpg

The Pacifistas, along with the Sizzlers, have achieved great success in the Summit War and other wars, but this is Vegapunk's invention based on the body of Bartholomew Bear. Unlike the original bear, it can shoot lasers, which is an ability of Yellow Monkey's Pika Pika Fruit. Also, the armaments that Franky has two years later are also based on Vegapunk's technology.
Click to expand...
more support... and if I remember correctly there is a statement saying the laser having the same attack power as the yellow monkey (kizaru)
 
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GodlyCharmander said:
It was decided in this thread that all characters from East Blue all the way to Alabasta have no discernible progression
Click to expand...
Wanna ask. What is the conclusion for why is this the case?

GodlyCharmander said:
We accept it as durability negation,
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Just asking For what reason specifically? heat? isn't heat also energy which is AP?

Also for the golden bell thing I'm against it. Isn't that Kinetic Energy? It is based on mass and speed.

The thing is One Piece can treat speed somewhat inconsistent. Like Ships dodging cannon ball or a submarine dodging light beam, or even a ship avoids relativistic speed Smoothie's attack. This argument is even more true if the OP world is very big. Ships are to be treated unrealistic for this as no real ship can do this. And if it is unrealistic, just like fictional characters, KE is questionable because it can be inconsistent. Speed of Carrying ball of mass realisticness is also questionable tho and thus its KE too.
 
KillerH said:
Wanna ask. What is the conclusion for why is this the case?
Just asking For what reason specifically? heat? isn't heat also energy which is AP?
Click to expand...
Tempest or Eminiteable probably know the reason for these two.
Also no, we do not treat Heat as AP anymore because fiction in general do not consider it as such (aka, it's not AP unless the verse implies it is)
This happens with characters with Tier 7 Durability suffering from lava, or similar stuff, when realistically, it shouldn't even bother them.
KillerH said:
Also for the golden bell thing I'm against it. Isn't that Kinetic Energy? It is based on mass and speed.

The thing is One Piece can treat speed somewhat inconsistent. Like Ships dodging cannon ball or a submarine dodging light beam, or even a ship avoids relativistic speed Smoothie's attack. This argument is even more true if the OP world is very big. Ships are to be treated unrealistic for this as no real ship can do this. And if it is unrealistic, just like fictional characters, KE is questionable because it can be inconsistent.
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"It is not realistic, thus it shouldn't be used".
Outstanding counter-argumentation. The speed is calculated based on events on the very specific scene. It cannot be inconsistent because it has no other form of comparison to use as anti-feats.
The ship examples, and most things you said is Argument from Incredulity. Yes, the ships dodged x, y and z. Something that shouldn't be possible with real ships...
And?
It's fiction. Oda can do whatever he wants.
Furthermore, even if the ships are inconsistent with speed, that has nothing to do with the speed used for this particular instance. You cannot take one concept of speed being treated inconsistently, and say it's a rule for every aspect of speed being inconsistent. By that I mean, if you want to say the speed I used for the Golden Ball is inconsistent, prove it by using actual anti-feats for that instance in particular.
KillerH said:
Speed of Carrying ball of mass realisticness is also questionable tho and thus its KE too.
Click to expand...
I didn't understand what you meant by that.
 
It's not that bad. I don't fully disagree with it, I just disagree with some of the scaling. But I'll get into it in a few days, when I can.
 
1. I honestly don't think we can use the Gold Rifle calc.

2. IMO, we should try to finish this before the post-timeskip revisions to avoid either cluttering the forum or causing the implementation of whatever ends up getting accepted here from being badly delayed.

Just my opinion though, and no rush on those who are unable to view the thread at the moment.
 
Sorry but I request that everyone who keeps filling up the thread with "I don't think we should use the Golden Rifle calc" should go away unless I see genuine reasons.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Damage has a genuine reason.

Everyone else, disperse
Eseseso said:
2. IMO, we should try to finish this before the post-timeskip revisions to avoid either cluttering the forum or causing the implementation of whatever ends up getting accepted here from being badly delayed.

Just my opinion though, and no rush on those who are unable to view the thread at the moment.
Click to expand...
Talk about Post Timeskip again and you're getting thread banned
 
Damage3245 said:
@KillerH: I'll get into the Gold Rifle stuff as soon as I can to address that.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I appreciate that.

GodlyCharmander said:
I didn't understand what you meant by that.
Click to expand...
My whole point of that argument was I was talking about inconsistency of use of KE in one piece or even fiction in general. Since they treat speed and destructive power/AP separately. That is why character simply do not get tier High 3A for being lightspeed which should be like that in reality. Especially the gap between that feat and the rest of skypiea feat is almost 10x. If Luffy scale to the lower values 4x gap is too much for a person let alone 10x. One shot territory is 7.5x. If it is close I don't mind. Destruction feat is more blatant in general.
 
KillerH said:
My whole point of that argument was I was talking about inconsistency of use of KE in one piece or even fiction in general. Since they treat speed and destructive power/AP separately. That is why character simply do not get tier High 3A for being lightspeed which should be like that in reality.
Click to expand...
No.

Idk what you mean by "inconsistency of use of KE in one piece" by bringing up the lightspeed infinite force stuff because we need extra proof for that. We use KE for damn near everything.
KillerH said:
Especially the gap between that feat and the rest of skypiea feat is almost 10x.
Click to expand...
The gap between Skypiea and Alabasta is more than 10x. The gap between Alabasta and East Blue is more than 100x. You were saying?
KillerH said:
If Luffy scale to the lower values 4x gap is too much for a person let alone 10x. One shot territory is 7.5x.
Click to expand...
One shot territory is not 7.5x. One shot territory in Versus Threads is 7.5x. That isn't correlated into powerscaling.

This whole comment is incredulity. Literally the entire thing
 
If it's ok to ask, how exactly can we use the Gold Rifle calc if the calc's power was mostly due to the giant gold ball on Luffy's hand that he used in the punch, when he clearly doesn't have that Gold Ball afterwards.
 
Eseseso said:
If it's ok to ask, how exactly can we use the Gold Rifle calc if the calc's power was mostly due to the giant gold ball on Luffy's hand that he used in the punch, when he clearly doesn't have that Gold Ball afterwards.
Click to expand...
The energy released come from Luffy, it doesn't come from the giant gold ball.

Like if i throw a basket ball and destroy a skyscraper, are you going to argue that the power behind come from the basket ball?
 
KingTempest said:
Sorry but I request that everyone who keeps filling up the thread with "I don't think we should use the Golden Rifle calc" should go away unless I see genuine reasons.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Damage has a genuine reason.

Everyone else, disperse

Talk about Post Timeskip again and you're getting thread banned
Click to expand...
tf he's not saying anything harmful or bad? ik it can be annoying but he was genuinely trying to make a point there -_-

anyways the rest above i agree with besides the last thing you said.
 
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