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I think you're overstating Fujitora's feat a bit. Lifting the rubble up, and then moving it over to one side of the island seem to be separate feats.
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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #8
- Thread starter Damage3245
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I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere, but:
Why is negating gravity's effect on a large mass of rubble an AP feat for Fujitora? His DF power is over gravity, inverting gravity (similarly to the sideways gravity attack against Sabo) over a large area and over time doesn't seem to be directly scaleable to AP?
If anything that's just a Lifting Strength feat, and I'm hesitant to state 'Lifting Strength=Striking Strength' outright, especially when it's such an important calc for vastly increasing the power of a popular verse.
Why is negating gravity's effect on a large mass of rubble an AP feat for Fujitora? His DF power is over gravity, inverting gravity (similarly to the sideways gravity attack against Sabo) over a large area and over time doesn't seem to be directly scaleable to AP?
If anything that's just a Lifting Strength feat, and I'm hesitant to state 'Lifting Strength=Striking Strength' outright, especially when it's such an important calc for vastly increasing the power of a popular verse.
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Why would it be a different feat when it's happening in the same scene with Fujitora doing only one action to get it done?Damage3245 said:
@Xulrev
Potential and Kinetic Energy are a thing. He's exerting energy to lift the rubble.
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@Damage - The same exact panel shows the rubble having JUST lifted, and a character noting that "All the rubble is gathering at the Eastern Port", and we only see rubble in these areas between the Flower Hill and the perspective (Which would be from the East). The only thing that wouldn't change is probably the Lower part of Pica's statue, as that's mostly in the same horizontal plane (hard to tell if it traveled from west to east from the given perspective, but it looks significantly larger than it did when it was next to the Royal Plateau, so I believe it moved a few hundred extra meters. The top half would have traveled much further since it was present on the South side)
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Right, just reread those pages. So there would be some horizontal movement for some of the rubble.
Generally speaking though this type of feat is more or less comparable to a lifting strength feat, a sustained action across several seconds (if not longer). It's not really an offensive attack by itself.
When we have Fujitora's other feats for his offensive attacks (which have been calced to be quite a bit lower than lifting all of the rubble on the island) I can't help but see this is as a way to try and make Fujitora's AP more impressive than what it should be.
Generally speaking though this type of feat is more or less comparable to a lifting strength feat, a sustained action across several seconds (if not longer). It's not really an offensive attack by itself.
When we have Fujitora's other feats for his offensive attacks (which have been calced to be quite a bit lower than lifting all of the rubble on the island) I can't help but see this is as a way to try and make Fujitora's AP more impressive than what it should be.
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Same case here.Damage3245 said:
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But this isn't an offensive AP feat for Fujitora, nor does it mean every feat from him is automatically on that level.
We have other AP feats from him that we can use to judge him.
Say we make that feat for him lifting the rubble to be High 7-A. Does this mean every attack he used against Gear 2/3 Luffy is High 7-A? Not necessarily; we can see that one of his attacks against Luffy was directly calced to be 7-A.
We have other AP feats from him that we can use to judge him.
Say we make that feat for him lifting the rubble to be High 7-A. Does this mean every attack he used against Gear 2/3 Luffy is High 7-A? Not necessarily; we can see that one of his attacks against Luffy was directly calced to be 7-A.
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?? He's still generating energy to lift the material, and his Ferocious Tiger was done whilst he was keeping the rubble mid-air (The feat doesn't note the rubble being blasted off a few hundred meters, still a 7-A feat, but you're underselling him just because he has a feat of lower value), which would still require hundreds of megatons of constant energy just to keep the rubble in the air.
You claim this is me trying to make Fujitora have higher AP, well your statements have me thinking you simply want to prevent already accepted calculations from affecting the statistics of these characters.
It's not like Fujitora displayed even moderate effort when performing this feat. He only displayed such with Ferocious Tiger, sure, but he was still having to use his power to keep the rubble mid-air, which is a constant 7-A feat by itself--and he was having to fight Luffy just before this.
You claim this is me trying to make Fujitora have higher AP, well your statements have me thinking you simply want to prevent already accepted calculations from affecting the statistics of these characters.
It's not like Fujitora displayed even moderate effort when performing this feat. He only displayed such with Ferocious Tiger, sure, but he was still having to use his power to keep the rubble mid-air, which is a constant 7-A feat by itself--and he was having to fight Luffy just before this.
Stefano4444
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You know, considering how much stronger Gear 2nd Luffy and Zoro are in comparation to Pica, we could simply upgrade both Gear 3rd Luffy and Asura Zoro at Likely High 7-A, we don't need an actual feat on that level, scaling should be enough.
Pica (838.527 Megatons or Mountain level+) <<< Zoro = Gear 2nd Luffy (At least Mountain level+) <<< Gear 3rd Luffy = Asura Zoro (Likely Large Mountain level).
In this way both Fujitora and Doflamingo get to be upgraded to High 7-A as well.
Pica (838.527 Megatons or Mountain level+) <<< Zoro = Gear 2nd Luffy (At least Mountain level+) <<< Gear 3rd Luffy = Asura Zoro (Likely Large Mountain level).
In this way both Fujitora and Doflamingo get to be upgraded to High 7-A as well.
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> is Ferocious Tiger was done whilst he was keeping the rubble mid-air
In other words, it is possible that Fujitora's overall AP may be higher but the attack he used on Luffy is not necessarily High 7-A because Fujitora was restricted?
By being the devil's advocate here, I want statistics to be changed accurately but conservatively if possible.
At one point the verse was wanked up to at least 6-B levels for a lot of characters, just by users pushing to see how far they could take the ratings. Obviously you could understand why I am wary of huge sweeping upgrades.
In other words, it is possible that Fujitora's overall AP may be higher but the attack he used on Luffy is not necessarily High 7-A because Fujitora was restricted?
By being the devil's advocate here, I want statistics to be changed accurately but conservatively if possible.
At one point the verse was wanked up to at least 6-B levels for a lot of characters, just by users pushing to see how far they could take the ratings. Obviously you could understand why I am wary of huge sweeping upgrades.
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Can you explain how exactly Gear 2 Luffy = Zoro? Or Gear 3 Luffy = Asura Zoro?Stefano4444 said:
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The 6-B values came from the assumed planet size, the 43km Dressrosa (Which was accepted before I even got here), and scaling the meteorites to top tiers, since it would be strange for a bunch of High 6-Cs to be <<<<<<<<<<<< Fujitora's potentially strongest attacks. A lot has changed since then.
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Yeah; the values in the past may have been mathematically correct by the way that the calcs were set up back then, but that didn't make the results accurate to what the verse should be rated as.
That's why I want to be thorough when verifying propose changes.
Even the current 7-A+ for Vergo and Sanji makes me a bit doubtful, even though powerscaling would support it where their feats do not.
That's why I want to be thorough when verifying propose changes.
Even the current 7-A+ for Vergo and Sanji makes me a bit doubtful, even though powerscaling would support it where their feats do not.
Stefano4444
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Guesswork for Asura Zoro and Gear 3rd Luffy while common sense, feats and scaling for Zoro and Gear 2nd Luffy.Damage3245 said:
Base Luffy is already possibly Mountain level+ by assuming that he isn't far below Post Timeskip Sanji and Zoro, while with his Gear 2nd he is instead ranked on the same level of Dressrosa Zoro.
Yes it is for different scaling (Zoro with Pica, Luffy with Black Knight) but logically speaking they should still be comparable, as i don't see any reason to assume Zoro (without Asura) would be stronger than Gear 2nd and viceversa, it would make more sense for him to equal Gear 2nd.
And since both Asura and Gear 3rd should multiply of about two times (as usually we assume for any multiplier), that should make them reach Large Mountain level.
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I strongly disagree with that reasoning Stefano, but I'll get into that after I revise this Fuji calc.
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I revised it.
We (currently) accept the Low End KE time-frame, which is 1.9 Gigatons (High 7-A).
If we scale based off of this, Gear 3rd Luffy and Fujitora would both be High 7-A, and Bound Man Luffy will be 6-C. Doflamingo would be Possibly 6-C--his Black Knight High 7-A for hurting Luffy, who took hits from Fujitora.
We (currently) accept the Low End KE time-frame, which is 1.9 Gigatons (High 7-A).
If we scale based off of this, Gear 3rd Luffy and Fujitora would both be High 7-A, and Bound Man Luffy will be 6-C. Doflamingo would be Possibly 6-C--his Black Knight High 7-A for hurting Luffy, who took hits from Fujitora.
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I don't think we should assume that all of fujitora's attacks are that powerful. We have some evidence to the contrary: his Ferocious Tiger was the most powerful out of all the attacks he used against Luffy, yet it doesn't come close to 1.9 Gigatons.
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Fujitora is still an admiral, so he should be most likely comparable to the other admirals. Admirals rarely go all out, and people who are far weaker were able to fight them for a while (Aokiji vs Ace, Marco vs Kizaru, Jozu vs Aokiji).
So I do not think that Luffy is comparable to Fujitora in the slightest, at least for now.
(I will admit, I only glanced over the thread, so I'm sorry if I misunderstood the proposed scaling)
So I do not think that Luffy is comparable to Fujitora in the slightest, at least for now.
(I will admit, I only glanced over the thread, so I'm sorry if I misunderstood the proposed scaling)
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?? The calculation for Ferocious Tiger simply shows the explosive force damaging the boulders, which are kilometers away from the actual attack, and where Luffy took it to the face, and it does not account for the rubble being sent flying off the island, or to the coast line. The destruction of the boulders would remain 7-A, yeah, but you're assuming that 100% of the energy reached the boulders when 1) Luffy was the first thing in contact with the blast, 2) the blast traveled hundreds to thousands of meters before hitting the boulders, and 3) The current calculation only uses Violent Fragmentation and does not accommodate for the rubble simply being flung a fair distance, which would increase the value quite a fair amount.
And we use higher values of character attacks for statistics in any case. This isn't just One Piece--incase you are about to bring this argument up. We have cases for Fujitora only performing 8-C feats, 8-B feats, then suddenly a bunch of 7-C to 7-A feats, but we scale his AP to his strongest performance, which in this case would he High 7-A.
Again, if he performed this feat with obvious difficulty or preparation, I would simply agree and say he needs to alter in scaling, but he did this with visibly no effort on his part, and is maintaining constant mid 7-A levels of energy simply to keep the rubble in the air.
And we use higher values of character attacks for statistics in any case. This isn't just One Piece--incase you are about to bring this argument up. We have cases for Fujitora only performing 8-C feats, 8-B feats, then suddenly a bunch of 7-C to 7-A feats, but we scale his AP to his strongest performance, which in this case would he High 7-A.
Again, if he performed this feat with obvious difficulty or preparation, I would simply agree and say he needs to alter in scaling, but he did this with visibly no effort on his part, and is maintaining constant mid 7-A levels of energy simply to keep the rubble in the air.
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Fujitora is a different generation of Admiral, and nothing indicates him to be comparable to the original 3.Captain Torch said:
He showed obvious strain against Luffy, as pointed out several times, and Luffy hurt him with Gear 3rd attacks. Don't assume Fujitora is suddenly comparable to someone like Aokiji when a lot of evidence (against Luffy and Doflamingo) supports him being inferior.
Stefano4444
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About what do you disagree exactly, about Zoro and Gear 2nd Luffy be comparable or about Asura and Gear 3rd make them High 7-A?CinCameron20 said:
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Zoro and Luffy have been separated for over 2 years and have been training with x character for that time frame. This isn't pre time-skip where the strength chain is dead-obvious. All that is clear is that Luffy (in base and Gear 2nd) should be at least comparable to Sanji, who was less successful against Doflamingo, and less successful against the Top Executives (Vergo), and Gear 3rd is obviously stronger than Gear 2nd in attack power. Also Base/Gear 2nd Luffy scales from besting the Black Knight, which could hurt him and harm Law.
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@CinCameron
I disagree on that. The only real damage Fujitora took was a small bruise on the cheak. Aokiji got the same kind of bruise against Jozu for example. In One Piece, most characters can hold each other off, but are not necessarily comparable. Saying that Fujitora is "a different generation of Admiral" is an assumption as well, and nothing really shows that he isn't comparable.
Doflamingo himself admitted that Fujitora is a monster, and that he cannot win against him. The fact remains that no character in Dressrosa was able to match Fujitora, nor really "strain" him.
I disagree on that. The only real damage Fujitora took was a small bruise on the cheak. Aokiji got the same kind of bruise against Jozu for example. In One Piece, most characters can hold each other off, but are not necessarily comparable. Saying that Fujitora is "a different generation of Admiral" is an assumption as well, and nothing really shows that he isn't comparable.
Doflamingo himself admitted that Fujitora is a monster, and that he cannot win against him. The fact remains that no character in Dressrosa was able to match Fujitora, nor really "strain" him.
Stefano4444
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And what is your opinion about High 7-A for Gear 3rd Luffy and Asura Zoro via just scaling?
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@Captain Torch -
Absolute nonsense.
Fujitora blocked the attack from Luffy but still got hit and sent flying a great distance, and also, we see Fujitora with more marks in the next chapter, and once he uses Ferocious Tiger, we see him sweating profusely and panting by the time they disengage.
"Doflamingo himself admitted that Fujitora is a monster, and that he cannot win against him. The fact remains that no character in Dressrosa was able to match Fujitora, nor really "strain" him."
Absolute lies. You should be careful with making such obvious BS. Doflamingo claims that he has heard of Fujitora and Ryokugyo's reputation as being monsters with power to spare, and then later notes that they need to get rid of Fujitora once his usefulness comes to and end, but admitting it would not be an easy task. Also, despite having help, Fujitora only managed to halt Doflamingo's Bird-Cage momentarily.
Nothing about what you claimed in that quote is true.
Try again. Without complete lies next time
Absolute nonsense.
Fujitora blocked the attack from Luffy but still got hit and sent flying a great distance, and also, we see Fujitora with more marks in the next chapter, and once he uses Ferocious Tiger, we see him sweating profusely and panting by the time they disengage.
"Doflamingo himself admitted that Fujitora is a monster, and that he cannot win against him. The fact remains that no character in Dressrosa was able to match Fujitora, nor really "strain" him."
Absolute lies. You should be careful with making such obvious BS. Doflamingo claims that he has heard of Fujitora and Ryokugyo's reputation as being monsters with power to spare, and then later notes that they need to get rid of Fujitora once his usefulness comes to and end, but admitting it would not be an easy task. Also, despite having help, Fujitora only managed to halt Doflamingo's Bird-Cage momentarily.
Nothing about what you claimed in that quote is true.
Try again. Without complete lies next time
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@Stefano - Asura is unknown (I am of the opinion it would be High 7-A simply because of the 3x multiplier it SHOULD have, but since it isn't seen post time-skip, it is unknown if the ability went under a evolution or some kind of change, so it isn't on his profile atm)
Gear 3rd Luffy would scale comparable to Fujitora... @Torch - And I will hear none of it.
Gear 3rd Luffy would scale comparable to Fujitora... @Torch - And I will hear none of it.
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I don't think people should go and accuse each other of complete lies yet... It's easy for people to have pretty different interpretations about the same manga. And it is easy for people to be mistaken on details.
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@Damage - Torch claimed that Doflamingo "admitted" he could not beat Fujitora - Never stated in any way. In fact, Doflamingo actually stated the opposite, that he could take care of Fujitora once his usefulness ended. He also took Doflamingo's statement of Fujitora to imply that Doflamingo himself thought of Fujitora as a monster--despite having JUST met him, and the statement merely implied Doflamingo knowing of Fujitora's reputation in the Navy--implying others within the chain to have referred to Fujitora as a "monster".
Not a matter of interpretation, I'm afraid. A blatant lie, as I can not understand how anyone could mistake several quotes, and go as far as to make up one.
Not a matter of interpretation, I'm afraid. A blatant lie, as I can not understand how anyone could mistake several quotes, and go as far as to make up one.
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I can't speak for Captain Torch obviously, but it's possible he was just remembering an old fan translation or something which mistranslated Doflamingo's words.
I know I've gotten details wrong in the past before, simply due to forgetting exact lines.
I know I've gotten details wrong in the past before, simply due to forgetting exact lines.
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@CinCameron
No need to get so agressive. We can have a debate without trying to attack each other.
I won't deny, I don't remember the exact words. And after rechecking, I have to admit, Doflamingo never stated that "he cannot beat him", my bad on that part (And giving it more thought, it would be quite out of character for him to state that, given his arrogance)
Having said that, the manga showcases Doflamingo's inferiority to Fujitora several times. When Fujitora summoned his meteor for the first time, Doflamigo was noticeably scared/worried and had to actually try to counter this attack. Meanwhile Fujitora simply said that this was a "test".
Also, Doflamingo being above Fujitora wouldn't make much sense lore wise, since not only did Akainu send Fujitora alone to clean up all the mess in dressrosa (Disclaimer: Might be disremembering things, if I am wrong, no need for insults), but also the simple fact that Fujitora is a full-fledged admiral should be enough to contradict the assumption of Doffy being equal to Fujitora.
I will agree though, that this is up to interpretation, even if you might be tunnel visioning it (Disclaimer: "might be", not stating that as a fact)
Anyways, I am leaving this discussion. I do not care enough to continue debating this, since there is no real proof for either side, and it is noticeable that you can get quite heated in discussions, leading to agressive behaviour, which I don't want any part of.
Have a good day.
No need to get so agressive. We can have a debate without trying to attack each other.
I won't deny, I don't remember the exact words. And after rechecking, I have to admit, Doflamingo never stated that "he cannot beat him", my bad on that part (And giving it more thought, it would be quite out of character for him to state that, given his arrogance)
Having said that, the manga showcases Doflamingo's inferiority to Fujitora several times. When Fujitora summoned his meteor for the first time, Doflamigo was noticeably scared/worried and had to actually try to counter this attack. Meanwhile Fujitora simply said that this was a "test".
Also, Doflamingo being above Fujitora wouldn't make much sense lore wise, since not only did Akainu send Fujitora alone to clean up all the mess in dressrosa (Disclaimer: Might be disremembering things, if I am wrong, no need for insults), but also the simple fact that Fujitora is a full-fledged admiral should be enough to contradict the assumption of Doffy being equal to Fujitora.
I will agree though, that this is up to interpretation, even if you might be tunnel visioning it (Disclaimer: "might be", not stating that as a fact)
Anyways, I am leaving this discussion. I do not care enough to continue debating this, since there is no real proof for either side, and it is noticeable that you can get quite heated in discussions, leading to agressive behaviour, which I don't want any part of.
Have a good day.
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1) the manga never displays Doflamingo being inferior to Fujitora.
- When Fujitora brought down the meteorite, Doflamingo was not expecting himself to be put in harm's way as Fujitora had to hold off investigating Doffy in order to arrest Law--instead, Fujitora brought down the meteorite to see how tough both characters are, and as a jab towards Doflamingo--seeing as how it is made very clear neither of them have respect for the other. Doflamingo was pissed. You noted "several" times Doflamingo was shown inferior to Fujitora... This is but one (which is invalid).
- Akainu sent one of his top guys to apprehend Law/Luffy and possibly Doflamingo if need be. So now you're also suggesting Fujitora to be above Luffy since he was sent to "handle it" when no one had seen Luffy for over 2 years, and no one until Doflamingo knew about Gear 4th.
- Fujitora and Ryokugyo were selected to fill in the empty 2 spots, and there were other officers who were nominated for the position of Admiral. You mean to tell me that there are 4 to 6 Akainu-tier individuals + Garp and Tsuru, and they can't do anything to stop the Yonko? Now THAT'S contradicting the lore.
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Anyways, with the change to Fujitora's casual feat, He should now scale to High 7-A. He has a supporting 7-A feat, and simply keeping the rubble in the air is a perpetual 7-A feat in itself, so this is rather consistent.
Gear 2nd and 3rd Luffy would be affected (Luffy was using Gear 2nd Luffy in his fight with Fujitora, but it isn't really shown if he was effective in hurting him, so he'd probably be listed as "At least 7-A+, likely High 7-A/higher with Gear 2nd", and Gear 3rd hurt Fujitora more than once, so it should be straight up High 7-A). Luffy's durability would also scale, as he took hits from Fujitora and wasn't any worse off than when he started by the time the fight was over outside from a couple bruises.
Doflamingo's Black Knight consistently hurt Luffy, so its AP would increase to High 7-A. Law managed to fend off the Black Knight's attacks one-handed, but it was an incredibly short encounter, so he'd probably be listed as "At least 7-A+, Possibly High 7-A".
All of the other 7-As would stay the same, as they obviously don't scale from any of this, but I do think we should note Zoro being "Higher" with Asura, as--outside of the fact he simply hasn't used it post time-skip--there's nothing really suggesting he lost the ability. He just never required it against the likes of Pica, and everyone else was fodder to him.
Bound Man Luffy, as it was noted as being "3x" stronger by someone face-tanking all of his attacks, and we use this scaling, would be 6-C Scaling above his Gear 3rd, to around 5.97GT.
Doflamingo would simply be "At least High 7-A for same reasons, Possibly 6-C for same reasons"
Cracker being Possibly 6-C himself for same reasons. Biscuit Soldiers being High 7-A simply because Gear 4th outright stomps them.
Etc.
Gear 2nd and 3rd Luffy would be affected (Luffy was using Gear 2nd Luffy in his fight with Fujitora, but it isn't really shown if he was effective in hurting him, so he'd probably be listed as "At least 7-A+, likely High 7-A/higher with Gear 2nd", and Gear 3rd hurt Fujitora more than once, so it should be straight up High 7-A). Luffy's durability would also scale, as he took hits from Fujitora and wasn't any worse off than when he started by the time the fight was over outside from a couple bruises.
Doflamingo's Black Knight consistently hurt Luffy, so its AP would increase to High 7-A. Law managed to fend off the Black Knight's attacks one-handed, but it was an incredibly short encounter, so he'd probably be listed as "At least 7-A+, Possibly High 7-A".
All of the other 7-As would stay the same, as they obviously don't scale from any of this, but I do think we should note Zoro being "Higher" with Asura, as--outside of the fact he simply hasn't used it post time-skip--there's nothing really suggesting he lost the ability. He just never required it against the likes of Pica, and everyone else was fodder to him.
Bound Man Luffy, as it was noted as being "3x" stronger by someone face-tanking all of his attacks, and we use this scaling, would be 6-C Scaling above his Gear 3rd, to around 5.97GT.
Doflamingo would simply be "At least High 7-A for same reasons, Possibly 6-C for same reasons"
Cracker being Possibly 6-C himself for same reasons. Biscuit Soldiers being High 7-A simply because Gear 4th outright stomps them.
Etc.
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Luffy's profile would basically look like this for Dressrosa:
Tier: At least Low 7-B, possibly 7-A Base, At least 7-A Gear 2nd, High 7-A Gear 3rd, 6-C Gear 4th
Tier: At least Low 7-B, possibly 7-A Base, At least 7-A Gear 2nd, High 7-A Gear 3rd, 6-C Gear 4th
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Any indication that Fujitora's durability scales to his feat of lifting the rubble?
Also, was the updated calc evaluated?
Also, was the updated calc evaluated?
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I merely pointing out the scaling, and I need someone else to ask for evaluations, as I will be out of the house in about 15 minutes. Probably have to specify the revised version of that calc.
Fujitora simply scales from taking hits from Luffy. Gear 2nd didn't hurt him (from what we see), and Gear 3rd hurt him, but only a little--very superficial. They both have their own little "snake" scaling. Fujitora's AP from feat, Luffy's Durability from taking hits from him, Gear 3rd Scaling from his durability, and Fujitora's durability from getting out of the fight with no more than bruises.
There are other ways they'd scale anyways, as Fujitora did block a very casual kick from Doflamingo, and its also quite unthinkable for any of the 7-As in that arc to be capable of harming Fujitora, and they are all over 830MT
Fujitora simply scales from taking hits from Luffy. Gear 2nd didn't hurt him (from what we see), and Gear 3rd hurt him, but only a little--very superficial. They both have their own little "snake" scaling. Fujitora's AP from feat, Luffy's Durability from taking hits from him, Gear 3rd Scaling from his durability, and Fujitora's durability from getting out of the fight with no more than bruises.
There are other ways they'd scale anyways, as Fujitora did block a very casual kick from Doflamingo, and its also quite unthinkable for any of the 7-As in that arc to be capable of harming Fujitora, and they are all over 830MT
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What needs to be also accounted for is that Luffy is heavily resistant to blunt force, and Fujitora's power is gravity, which should be counted as "blunt force" tbh.
Won't argue about Fujitora being superior to anyone in dressrosa, because I already said I am leaving that discussion. However I will note, that the only thing pointing towards Gear 3rd Luffy being equal to Fujitora is Luffy leaving a small bruise on Fujitora (Which as I pointed out earlier, isn't considered a big deal in the manga, given how Jozu gave Aokiji a busted lip, etc.)
Won't argue about Fujitora being superior to anyone in dressrosa, because I already said I am leaving that discussion. However I will note, that the only thing pointing towards Gear 3rd Luffy being equal to Fujitora is Luffy leaving a small bruise on Fujitora (Which as I pointed out earlier, isn't considered a big deal in the manga, given how Jozu gave Aokiji a busted lip, etc.)
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Torch does raise some good points.
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https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3085010#2 - DUMA has deem the revised calc okay
I don't understand why this feat won't scale to his durability. He is generating energy to lift up the rubble and move it across the island. It is a similar concept to Hagoromoro creating a moon and moving it to orbit.
I don't understand why this feat won't scale to his durability. He is generating energy to lift up the rubble and move it across the island. It is a similar concept to Hagoromoro creating a moon and moving it to orbit.
- 30,132
- 25,439
- Thread starter
- #199
Why would Hagoromo's feat scale to his durability either?
- 14,574
- 5,874
Let's not get off topic while talking about Naruto here.
This isn't another meteor situation where one can argue that Fujitora doesn't scale to his own energy for some stretchy reason. When he uses a meteor we need to scale the energy he generates to bring down the meteor and scale him to it but when we have a calculated amount of energy he suddenly has no showings of scaling to his own attacks. This need to stop.
Luffy punched Fujitora. Issho blocked and still got strike back with bruises. He wasn't caught off guard considering his Observation Haki so the shortest assumption is that he's somewhat below G3. Luffy's resistance to Blunt Force has nothing to do with this when we're talking about Luffy throwing a punch.
This isn't another meteor situation where one can argue that Fujitora doesn't scale to his own energy for some stretchy reason. When he uses a meteor we need to scale the energy he generates to bring down the meteor and scale him to it but when we have a calculated amount of energy he suddenly has no showings of scaling to his own attacks. This need to stop.
Luffy punched Fujitora. Issho blocked and still got strike back with bruises. He wasn't caught off guard considering his Observation Haki so the shortest assumption is that he's somewhat below G3. Luffy's resistance to Blunt Force has nothing to do with this when we're talking about Luffy throwing a punch.
