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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #8

I see. What do you think of this suggestion then?:

> 'At least 7-A+ (Most of the reasons on his profile), likely/possibly High 7-A+ (Lasted against Boundman Luffy offscreen for 20 minutes)'

I think it is fair to say that almost all of the justifications on Doffy's profile would put him safely into the 7-A+ tier without having enough clear evidence of being High 7-A+.

Sure we can say that it is implied by some parts of his fight against G4 Luffy, but that would be satisfied with the likely/possibly clarification.
 
Yeah, "At least 7-A+, Likely High 7-A+" would be fine.

Only reason I argue strongly he's (at bare minimum) base-line High 7-A is because he's out here one-shotting 838MT characters, and people scaling >>838MT in dura like Luffy getting casually thrashed.

I'm going to bed, it's almost 4AM, and I need to get some personal projects started before work.
 
Okay, get some rest. I'll wait a while to see if anyone else has anything to add before making any changes.
 
Also, we should upgrade WCI Luffy's durability at the moment to:

Large Mountain level+ (Tanked many blows from Katakuri), higher with Gear 4th variants (Much more durable)

Also, I just catch on, why is there a + to all the High 7-A. The halfway point between 1GT and 4.3GT is 2.65GT

Is because G2 or G3 (Which ever one being tripled) is higher than the 838MT?
 
Huh. That is a good point. 838 Megaton multiplied by three is 2.514 Gigatons.

I think there was a mistake made where someone thought that being above 2.5 Gigatons was past the halfway point.
 
Seems like a mistake, yes. Feel free to change the profiles accordingly.

Regarding Luffy's Durability, I'd say yes. He withstood the entire fight against Katakuri while being in a severe disadvantage when it came to strength, but he was tough enough to stand back up during the half a day it lasted.
 
@PlumCrayfish; currently we use it to say that Jack could be Possibly 6-C in durability (since there it is plausible that he was one-shot by the attack, and he was only hit by a small percentage of the mass of the trunk), but also no other Yonkou Commander (aside from King & Queen) scales directly to Jack.
 
Minor thing; Due to https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2937954, I come to realize there is a problem with Skypiea Nami's Kinetic Energy. It assume the whole body's mass instead of the Clima Tact mass, so it should be invalid. This means that Skypeia Nami and those around her would be back to 8-B from scaling to the Impact Dial, which is 10X weaker than the Reject Dial.

@Damage - so that would make Jack's, as well as King and Queen, durability be "At least 7-A+, likely High 7-A, possibly 6-C"
 
Ah, thank you for noticing that.

As for Jack and the others.. hopefully we'll get some more scaling for them soon in the current arc.

I'm going to make some of the updates for things we've discussed on here like removing the + and changing Doffy's AP slightly.
 
@Plum - I'm confused... Wouldn't the AP simply be higher anyways due to the KE needing to come from Nami + the Clima Tact mass, and not just Nami herself (which the calc does)? If anything, the calc being redone would give higher results.
 
@Cin; I think the issue is that Nami's entire body isn't moving that distance / that speed.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@Plum - I'm confused... Wouldn't the AP simply be higher anyways due to the KE needing to come from Nami + the Clima Tact mass, and not just Nami herself (which the calc does)? If anything, the calc being redone would give higher results.
Click to expand...
We have a discussion why KE should count for speed feats
 
A couple feats came to mind. Any good numbers that could come from tankmans gum gum cannon ball? Big moms spear of elbaf or any strike that zeus or pronetheus did? Breaking candy wall with red hawk? Pedros suicide bomb? Daifuku soloing ships? Leo bazooka? Katakuris final zangiri mochi?
 
Cannon Ball: Not sure it'd yield anything good.

Ikoku: 7-C is the most you'll get from that.

Red Hawk vs Candy: No value for breaking candy.

Pedro's kamikaze attack: Low 7-C at best.

Daifuku vs ships: Not worth the effort.

Leo Bazooka: Dunno, probably 7-B.

Zangiri Mochi: 7-C at best.
 
Yup. Generally speaking the verse of One Piece is a lot lower than the highest feats we use for scaling.
 
Agreed. I understand why it is perfectly logical we use the highest feats, I'm just pointing out that it makes so many other feats underwhelming.
 
Or they are ridiculously hard to calc (Bird-Cage and KKG in that order... the land mass is impossible to get accurate for KKG with the panels shown)
 
Thanks for trying anyway.

By the way, I updated the Fishmen's Self-Sustenance to Underwater Breathing. Seemed more appropriate.
 
On the bright side, we got many feats in Dressrosa ranging from 7-C to 7-A+, and one possible 6-C feat depending on Doffy's strings (and considering he's unquestionably one of the top 3 strongest characters present in the arc, that definitely wouldn't be an outlier in any case)
 
If Underwater Breathing is now a thing I agree with that.

Tho Enel should keep Self-Sustenance 1 with all things considered. Dunno if you changed his profile as well, I'm just pointing it.
 
I just realized (from Zoro vs Machamp thread) that Zoro's use of Asura would increase him to literally the same level as Bound Man Luffy.

I genuinely don't have reason to believe Gear 3rd Luffy or especially Doflamingo would be inferior to Zoro with Asura... Should we discuss whether or not Luffy + Doflamingo should scale higher?

Possibly going to have Bound Man and Doflamingo both be "At least High 7-A" at the bare minimum solely because of this. Nothing is going to make me think Zoro is > Doflamingo, especially after Dressrosa Arc.

TBH I don't see this being a problem, especially since if we scale Doflamingo to his Bird-Cage (Which is going to be 6-C no matter what, but I'm having trouble figuring out a proper way to calc it and need a calc member who knows how to handle this), he and literally everyone scaling comparable or above him will be 6-C anyways.
 
We could use the Large Mountain level result from Fujitora's lifting Dressrosa feat of 2.6GT iirc. It would fit better to the scaling as Fujitora is shown to a far strong opponent compared to most of the Dressrosa cast except for G4 Luffy and Doffy.

This would make G3 Luffy a bit stronger than Asura Zoro and Doffy would scale higher, G4 Luffy with 3x multipliers would be Island level.
 
@Kobster - That could work perfectly, as I do think that the bird-cage durability would lie somewhere between 10% to 60% (Yes, big difference, which is one of like fifty reasons I am struggling with a calc for this) of the AP result from the meteorite Fujitora dropped on it. It would still be at least base-line Island level in any case.

The calc group did say the Fujitora calculation itself was fine, but not which end to use, so I mentioned that in removing the "Accepted Value" from my blog post.

If the High end is applicable, then this would solve the "Zoro = Gear 4th > Doflamingo" problem
 
We need more input on this ofc.

Option A: Keep the current scaling with Zoro w/ Asura being 2.514GT (AP only) scaling 3x above his base and nothing else changing, basically meaning Zoro is > Doflamingo and = Bound Man Luffy in AP--which just seems wrong.

Option B: Same scaling, but Luffy and (by extension) Doflamingo scale above Zoro, making them and others who scale to Gear 4th or Doflamingo "At least High 7-A", which is a relatively small change.

Option C (nothing's really against this, as the calc group and staff who have talked about the calculations did not say anything was wrong with the High End time-frame): We use Fujitora's High End for lifting the rubble from Dressrosa, which is 2.612GT.

  • Zoro would remain the same, At least 7-A+ in Base (>838MT), Likely High 7-A w/ Asura (At most 2.514GT), Gear 3rd Luffy would be High 7-A scaling to Fujitora, and as Zoro's superior, it's unlikely that Luffy's Gear 3rd is weaker than Zoro's strongest attacks. Because of this, and Doflamingo's statement that Bound Man is 3x above Luffy's previous limit, here is what the following would look like:
    • Luffy: (Base and Gear 2nd stay exactly the same), High 7-A (2.612GT) with Gear 3rd, 6-C (7.836GT) with Gear 4th.
      • Luffy's Durability would be High 7-A in base, 6-C with Gear 4th by extension.
    • Doflamingo: High 7-A with Black Knight (AP only. Dura stays Unknown. Hurt Luffy several times), Possibly 6-C himself (Same reasons as current)
    • Law: At least 7-A+ (Same reasons), Likely High 7-A (Fended off attacks from Doflamingo's Black Knight with one arm)
    • And everyone who scales to Gear 3rd Luffy will be High 7-A, and those to Gear 4th will be 6-C.
Also, regardless of the changes, Hody Jones should probably be 7-A+ as Overdose and Possibly High 7-A (Only for Option C for this bit) straight up simply because he took hits from Gear 2nd Luffy as the former, and managed to bite into Luffy and nearly kill him, and it took Gear 3rd to finish him off.
 
Zoro has never used Asura since before the timeskip. While it isn't necessarily impossible for him to still have that three times multiplier, I think we should wait to see him Post-Timeskip before asking it to his profile.

EDIT; I'll also point out that I don't think the manga ever stated that Zoro's AP multiples by three, it's just something we invented for convenience.
 
Asura multiplies the number of limbs and blades Zoro wields by 3. You'd think him swinging all 6 of his arms would be the same as swinging both of his arms 3 times simultaneously, not to mention he went from being drastically inferior to Kaku/Pacifista, to suddenly being capable of one-shotting them (Granted, Luffy is the one to finish off the latter).

I am aware of the fact that Asura is supposedly an illusion, but it is suggested to be more "spiritual". In any case, multiplying his limbs and sending off attacks with 6 arms rather than 2 is very obviously going to multiply his attack power by up to 3 regardless.

Despite not using Asura post time-skip (Even if it went through an evolution, this still supports the likely 3x multiplier), it would display at minimum the same level of impact as it did pre time-skip, and it would be strange for Luffy to be inferior to his own subordinate.

There's still the matter of the Fujitora scaling.

Zoro's Asura should be on his profile. He didn't suddenly lose the ability (until proven otherwise by canon). It should be on his profile, he just didn't have a need for it up to this point. Pica was the toughest opponent he has fought so far, and Zoro defeated him quite handily. There was no need for Asura to be used.
 
Regarding Fujitora, I don't see any convincing reason for why we should assume it took him 5 seconds to lift up the entire amount of rubble across the whole island.

Some of the pieces of rubble were clearly flying up at different speeds / times to others, and though it did take place over a short period of time I think we'd need something more to suggest five seconds than 'happened quickly'.

Regarding Zoro, there isn't anything suggesting this hypothetical Post-Timeskip Asura to be superior or inferior to Luffy and Doflamingo.

It might seem counter-intuitive for Zoro to be capable of reaching Boundman levels on his own, but there also isn't any evidence to the contrary.
 
For Fujitora: The rubble all rose at varying speeds. You pointed out SOME rubble rising up way after the others, but it's such a small percentage that it wouldn't affect the outcome by even .5%, and also, he pulled all the rubble from the island and brought it to the east side of the island, meaning at least half to three-quarters of the rubble traveled much faster.

In fact, the calculation may have to be slightly altered to accommodate for this, as the rubble from the west side of the island would have had to travel anywhere between 120 to 180% of the distance scaled in the calculation--which is already low-balled, considering I only scaled up to where the bottom of the rubble was located. The value will be High 7-A one way or the other.

The Pica Statue was last located towards the center (Bottom half), and the South side of the island (Top half remnants). That alone will drastically increase the value. The low end will definitely hit High 7-A, no argument.
 
Our calculations and presumptions about a character's amps and the context surrounding it being faulty doesn't mean that we should alter post-timeskip profiles to acount for that fact, on the topic of Zoro.

As Damage said, waiting to see objective showings for Asura post-timeskip would be the wisest choice before rushing to a conclusion about it.
 
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