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I don't see how. As far as I can tell 80% of the calcs don't have this issue.
I've called for the input of other staff.
I'd rather you didn't respond to me if all you're going to do with Strawman me.
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One Piece: Massive Speed Revision, Part 1: Pre Timeskip
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Don't fully know what that means but sure.
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Why would I even do that when in the beginning I was leaning on your side...
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Strawman Argument. Look it up.
You're trying to reduce my argument to just "You want to use the anime over the manga" and saying "Just use the manga" when my main argument is actually all about the manga.
The anime is purely additional context; not the full argument.
Please try to understand how frustrating it is to have your arguments constantly reworded by the opposition and treated like I'm arguing for something else.
For what I said above. It's hard to tell if you're leaning on my side or not if you're misinterpreting my argument.
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OHHHH I get it now. Yeah I get what you're saying now.
Sorry for jumping you without reading the arguments, I mostly just skimmed them
I'll stay neutral. I can see where both sides are coming from, I mean tbf in the manga we DONT EVEN KNOW if she turned before or after the lightning headed towards her, so I don't see any problems with using the anime in a situation like this. Then again apparently there're differences between the fight in the anime and manga so don't know if the anime version can even be considered.
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Yee that's what I was talking about... It can't even be additional context or support for the Manga...
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It can.
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It can. The intention is not to replace the manga with new anime scenes; it is to give context to the scenes that are from the manga itself.
Eminiteable
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How?
She turned her head before the flash even happend... Now you skip the anime and go to the manga.
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Except it's not an issue, Emin proved you wrong. You are trying to make it seem like an inconsistency or issue. Also since when we do use the Anime over the primary canon? if that were the case I would like to give Sanji's "Hardening/Koka" despite the Anime adaptation just being an additional context, but that's unfortunately not the case, hence why this is no different case here. As far as I recall didn't I asked you before why you were so certain that the anime is correct and yet it's proven to be another Toei inconsistency?
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"Regarding the canon: In terms of canon material, this wiki deems the manga as the primary canon. The anime is considered secondary canon on a case by case basis."
Eminiteable
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Damage you didn't look at what I said did you? It's only ever taken into consideration due to the possibility of Oda's input, he states plain as day that he has no input literally two chapters after the lightning bolt scene.
Sorry but you're dead wrong.
Sorry but you're dead wrong.
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The assumption on your part: Zala turned her head before the lightning was heading towards her.
The manga doesn't give us enough information in that scene to tell us whether she turned before or after. Therefore, the anime, which is secondary, gives us that information so there's nothing wrong with going there (this is where the case by case part comes in)
The anime: Zala turned her head after the lightning was heading towards her.
The manga doesn't give us enough information in that scene to tell us whether she turned before or after. Therefore, the anime, which is secondary, gives us that information so there's nothing wrong with going there (this is where the case by case part comes in)
The anime: Zala turned her head after the lightning was heading towards her.
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I'm getting tired of you conveniently ignoring enimitteable's arguments. Especially the fact that Oda himself gave his input on this scene.
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Where's his input? (I must have missed it)
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Not when in that same scene it contradicts the manga
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Post it again.
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case by case
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Yee... using the same case that contradicted the manga
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I'm not ignoring them. I posted further up that this is the very first time that the Thunderbolt Tempo has been drawn. If there is inconsistency with the later versions, then it could simply be because Oda has drawn them differently.
Err, I think you have that bit backwards.
Eminiteable
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@Damage3245 @NomsNoms The entire reason the anime is considered in any instance is due to this thread, and that is due to the possible involvement or approval of Oda:
The statement was made in 2016+, this chapter came out in 2001 where two chapters later he said this:
Oda has no involvement at this time and using the case by case for this instance goes against the reasons it was agreed with in the first place.
The statement was made in 2016+, this chapter came out in 2001 where two chapters later he said this:
Oda has no involvement at this time and using the case by case for this instance goes against the reasons it was agreed with in the first place.
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@Eminiteable; I still think you don't get what I'm trying to say, so now I believe I've been explaining it wrong.
I'll try to think of another way to put this, but essentially; I'm not arguing we use the anime over the manga or that the anime is more or equally canon as the manga.
I'm saying that the manga can sometimes have events that can be interpreted in multiple ways; if we are going to get clarification, we need to look at something like the anime adaptation which can give support to either interpretation. This doesn't mean taking anime-exclusive content as canon or "replacing the manga". It means we still use the manga at the core, but we have a bit more evidence as to which interpretation is more supported.
I'll try to think of another way to put this, but essentially; I'm not arguing we use the anime over the manga or that the anime is more or equally canon as the manga.
I'm saying that the manga can sometimes have events that can be interpreted in multiple ways; if we are going to get clarification, we need to look at something like the anime adaptation which can give support to either interpretation. This doesn't mean taking anime-exclusive content as canon or "replacing the manga". It means we still use the manga at the core, but we have a bit more evidence as to which interpretation is more supported.
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So is this basically a discussion whether the anime is usable to scale the manga at all or not at this point?
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LOL Sorry yeah i did x.x
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No... Not when in that particular scene it contradicted the manga
Eminiteable
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No I completely understand what you're doing, but this entire time I've been trying to tell you it cannot be used for clarification for the reasons I've given above.
Alongside the fact the manga has never had a charging up period for the thunderbolt tempo with lightning being shown alongside the fact the scene in the anime doesn't even match the manga scene, makes not believe your interpretation or the anime's is the correct one.
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That's part of it.
But the main part is that in the manga itself, what is the on the panels doesn't appear to line up with the foundation of the calc.
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Oh that's true.
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Invalidating this calc just because of Toei being Toei is not a legitimate justification nor a reason. Your argument would work if Oda knew how they handle that scene so we can use and trust said additional content, but he didn't nor does have any say in the matter.
The burden of proof falls on you, because " an additional content" doesn't necessarily make it consistent with the said content. Inconsistency always has been a thing with the said additional content so who says this is different now, Tempest and Eminitable already pointed out several contradictions, making this scene by default another "Toei case", why are you keep insisting on using it despite being pointed out it simply doesn't work?
The burden of proof falls on you, because " an additional content" doesn't necessarily make it consistent with the said content. Inconsistency always has been a thing with the said additional content so who says this is different now, Tempest and Eminitable already pointed out several contradictions, making this scene by default another "Toei case", why are you keep insisting on using it despite being pointed out it simply doesn't work?
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Even if we ignore the anime completely, my main argument based on the manga itself is still valid.
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Except for the instance in the manga that we're discussing right now.
And the non-original content in the anime does match the manga scene.
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The manga version could be interpreted in both was both sides interpret, so and the anime favors damage3245's interpretation, so why I see that using the one the anime favors is the more logical option here.
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Damage, are you conveniently ignoring the fact that thunderbolt never had a charging time, why would Zagan stand still for more than 10 secs for no apparent reasons and more inconsistencies.
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I agree - but they're arguing that it doesn't matter what the anime shows. Whether the anime favors one interpretation or another is just coincidence, because it isn't directly created by Oda himself.
But even putting that aside, I think the objections I've raised with the calc's interpretation of the manga scene are good enough. There's not enough supporting evidence that Zala started turning her head after the lightning started heading towards her.
Please quote me on where I said 10 seconds.
Eminiteable
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Damage you're interpreting that there is a charge up period based off the manga, instead of just viewing it like every other instance of the thunderbolt tempo where a lightning bolt was formed and struck the opponent. This only difference here is that Zala reacted.
All of it is original like Tempest said, they didn't even include the flash showing lightning in the anime. You're just wrong about this.
Eminiteable
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Because the only reason the anime's scenes are at all considered is because of those reasons:
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