- 11,576
- 10,864
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
One Piece: Massive Speed Revision, Part 1: Pre Timeskip
- Status
- 8,857
- 5,697
I don't see the manga material being contradicted by the anime, both interpretations from both sides are viable without accounting the anime. So why is the interpretation in favor of the calculation taking precedence over the other one even when the anime supports the latter?
- 31,399
- 27,689
I'm not saying the charge-up period was long. Could be a split-second. But I'm just saying there is some span of time between the cloud being struck by Nami's Thunder Ball, and the lightning beginning to move towards its target.
I don't think it is supported by that the lightning only started moving at the exact same time that Zala began turning her head.
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #324
Since people are getting stonewalled out of oblivion.
That lies on the argument that the cloud has a charging period where she could've looked at the bolt, which is false.
Emin has flawlessly proven that there's no charging period and that the effects of the thunderbolt tempo are nigh instantaneous, which means right when the thunder ball hits, lightning moves.
We see when the thunder ball hits, she didn't look.
We see the flash, she looks.
Thunder ball hits > Lightning starts to strike ≥ Zala turns to look.
There is no time in the manga where she could've looked at it prior to it striking.
That argument isn't valid at all.
That lies on the argument that the cloud has a charging period where she could've looked at the bolt, which is false.
Emin has flawlessly proven that there's no charging period and that the effects of the thunderbolt tempo are nigh instantaneous, which means right when the thunder ball hits, lightning moves.
We see when the thunder ball hits, she didn't look.
We see the flash, she looks.
Thunder ball hits > Lightning starts to strike ≥ Zala turns to look.
There is no time in the manga where she could've looked at it prior to it striking.
- 31,399
- 27,689
Well, because with the former interpretation they have the basis of an MHS calc.
With the other interpretation, we have nothing to base the speed of Zala turning her head on. No more MHS ratings for Zala.
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,401
- 6,631
My interpretation of this is that like all other cases of the thunderbolt tempo once her weather ball hits the cloud lightning is formed and strikes the opponent, we see with Zala the lightning had already formed before she turned around and next panel she turns around before the lightning reached her
- 11,576
- 10,864
- 31,399
- 27,689
Nigh-instananeous, so not actually instananeous, right?
It's not false. It's what is shown in both the manga and anime.
Looks more like:
Thunder Ball hits > Lightning crackles inside the cloud > Zala turns to look > Flash! > Zala is struck by lightning.
- 31,399
- 27,689
Let me actually break down the scans given:
1) There is a jump between the Thunder Ball heading to the clouds and the lightning raining down on the manga. That's a jump in time. Not proof of it being instantaneous.
2) This is the one we're discussing.
3) We don't even see the Thunder Ball hitting the cloud in this one.
That's not really flawless proof from what I can tell.
1) There is a jump between the Thunder Ball heading to the clouds and the lightning raining down on the manga. That's a jump in time. Not proof of it being instantaneous.
2) This is the one we're discussing.
3) We don't even see the Thunder Ball hitting the cloud in this one.
That's not really flawless proof from what I can tell.
- 8,857
- 5,697
I agree, can we bring the anime versions of these two to make sure that it's actually instantaneous or if there is a charging time?
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,401
- 6,631
Yeah and do you wanna know what that is? Lightning isn't teleportation, while it's fast it still has a set speed to travel at which Zala turned around and reacted, while in other instances those who couldn't react to lightning simply got hit.
The lightning was literally there before she turned her head, you're interpreting the flash as the moment lightning decided to move instead of simply being what Zala is reacting too when she turned around
What jump in time?? we see the thunderball about to hit the cloud and next panel lightning has struck the marines.
That's not the point, did you miss the whole point that that lightning isn't shown in this supposed "charging time" like you claim, we aren't shown a charging time with lightning being produced.
Did you just ignore everything I said regarding the anime?
- 18,784
- 13,800
That's literally what I wanted from the beginning
- 31,399
- 27,689
Better yet. Here's a shot in the manga of one of Nami's clouds charging up with lightning before she actually uses it.
Lightning is crackling around with, without the lightning shooting out of it.
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,401
- 6,631
You mean thunder lance tempo which Nami requires to move past her opponent to launch?
- 18,784
- 13,800
Can I see the next scan?
- 31,399
- 27,689
How is that anything but a jump in time?
Time has passed for the ball to hit the cloud, the lightning to hit the ground, Nami to begin jumping away... How is that not time passing?
Why didn't the lightning flash when it started moving then? Why is it only flashing when it is halfway there or more? Where are the actual lightning bolts in the panel that according to the calc should be hitting her face?
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #337
The effects of the entire attack are nigh-instantaneous.
Not the charge up of the cloud is nigh-instantaneous.
Don't reach
There's lightning in the frame which you assume to be a charge from the bolt and your support is the anime showing it.
That's not shown in the anime. It's shown in the manga
The flash technically happened inbetween those 2 panels as well by your logic. Your assumption is that Zala looked before the flash, which is baseless.
False equivalence jump.
Jump for events already shown, like a thunder ball hitting a cloud. Not for a crackle between those events which haven't been shown.
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,401
- 6,631
Also using that same fight Thunderbolt tempo once again doesn't have a charging time showing lightning, instead it unleashed lightning once the ball arrived.
- 18,784
- 13,800
Damage.... Really...
- 31,399
- 27,689
Here's the next page.
- 1,744
- 1,165
Yep he did and he doesn't seem to care.
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #343
It's flashing in a close up to the viewers who see light coursing off the cloud.
Next page when it hits her
- 18,784
- 13,800
Why would that act the same? When she is the one controlling the lightnings movements and the other is the lightning itself move
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #345
Please keep arguing for the artist to show a lightning bolt that's off of the screen because the corner of the cloud is blocking it from an angle.
- 31,399
- 27,689
The principle of it is the same; the clouds can hold the electric charge in them without the lightning shooting it that very instant it is charged.
But I think we've begun to diverge too far from the original point.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced of the existence of this off-screen lightning bolt.
- 8,857
- 5,697
That kalifa fight attack is a different technique I think, she doesn't shoot a lightning ball in that one.
The anime shouldn't be completely unusable.
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #348
You're not convinced doesn't mean it's not there.
Where does the flash come from then?
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #349
Completely unusable
It's not.
It's unusable for this scene because it changes up everything
- 8,857
- 5,697
Does it though? That's why I suggested getting all the other thunder bolt tempo's in the anime to see if they have a charge time, if it's consistent in the anime then zala's feat wouldn't be a feat.
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #351
No, because that'd be an anime only addition since it's not shown in the manga
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #353
Bro look at the thread name
- 31,399
- 27,689
Sure - but I have to judge the calc off of its basis as well as the maths involved, and if the basis looks wrong then I have to object to it.
The flash comes from the cloud which is visibly glowing in that panel. It is the sign that the lightning attack is being launched so far as I can tell.
The most important factor is that in the 3rd panel, Zala's head is already turned around.
I think you're in the wrong thread.
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #355
The flash comes from the cloud?
So what in the cloud is producing the flash?
The water?
So what in the cloud is producing the flash?
The water?
- 11,576
- 10,864
LOL
- 31,399
- 27,689
I think you know I'm referring to lightning when I said this in the same post:
Let me ask you. In the third panel, how far do you think the lightning has travelled from its starting point?
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #358
I don't know at all, which is why I used a lowballed distance of from the cloud instead of some random ambiguous point.
- 31,399
- 27,689
But the basis of your calc is that you do know how far the lightning has travelled in the time it took Zala to turn her head.
- 21,469
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #360
No it is not.
The basis of my calc is
"Lightning is at the bottom of the cloud as an absolute lowball because idk where the hell the lightning starts at after it leaves the cloud"
The basis of my calc is
"Lightning is at the bottom of the cloud as an absolute lowball because idk where the hell the lightning starts at after it leaves the cloud"
- Status
