Wasn't she surprised because he split the skies and not because clashed with Hybrid Kaido
Splitting the sky is inherently a strength of Haki feat, so her being surprised means that her Haki is weaker than Luffy's Haki, meaning that Luffy is also physically stronger than her as Haō can only become stronger as the user themselves becomes stronger.
Well we're talking about a pre and post-Shuron Hakke Kaidou. The version of Kaidou that Gear 5 Luffy fought is much much stronger than the Hybrid forms he used against the Rooftop 5 and Yamato so its not that fair to compare Yamato, Lucci, and Zoro through Kaidou like that
I'm pretty sure that was meant to be about the user's willpower getting stronger or something, but I might be wrong.
Yeah but also keep in mind the G5 that Kaido fought tried WAY harder than he did with Lucci, for example he used ACoA and ACoC. The one that fought Lucci only used CoA.
Sorry if this wasn't your point btw but I see a couple people talk about this so I just wanted to say that
It's definitely referring to both willpower and strength, because the Haki can't become stronger unless both get stronger. Luffy's willpower didn't get stronger after getting his by Kaidou's Ragnaraku right before he awakened Haō Infusion, he simply grew physically stronger to match, which allowed him to tap into that level of Haki. You need to reach a specific level of strength for your Hao to be able to be coated.
That's definitely fair but I'm mostly just comparing the AP of Luffy and Zoro. Obviously in the grand scheme of things Luffy tried much harder against Kaidou than he did against Lucci, but its not like he was just jobbing around, which would still place the AP of attacks like Dawn Whip, Rocket, and Mole Pistol above his Base AP attacks.
I wanna nip this in the bud because a lot of people seem to take this literally when there's no reason to do that.
Eh..... Wouldn't say that.
Well, Luffy and Zoro are completely different in terms of fighting styles. Luffy hit him with one fist in one area, while Zoro slashed him with three swords across his body and gave him nine big bleeding gashes on his arms and torso.
Again, wouldn't exactly say that, since again she does downscale from Hybrid Kaido and could move nearly as fast as his Hybrid TB with her own.
This is just plain nonsensical, though.
Correct.
Correct.
Better endurance, not really, since the dude was out cold for a few seconds from a CoA G5 punch, while Yamato was still ready to fight after enraged Hybrid Kaido beat on her with ACoC and CoA (without her even defending herself either).
Again, not really, Yamato could still draw blood from Hybrid Kaido and what not, while Lucci's scaling is a little wonky given his interactions with Luffy and Zoro.
That's true, but if she could land it on him, then it should give her enough time to follow up with a TB, even if he could break out of the ice seconds after.
Yeah I know that. Notice how I didn't say "he went all out when fighting Lucci," but instead saying that it's not like he didn't try at all.
How come?
I don't doubt this. The difference is lethality, but the point stands that he still needs AP around that level to be able to do that to Lucci, who could recover from some of Luffy's attacks. It's that lethality that makes it so much easier for him to take out Yamato than vice versa.
And Lucci could dodge an attack from Gear 5 Luffy, who is superior to the version of himself that blitzed a Post-Shuron Hakke Kaidou's Thunder Bagua. Again, you're comparing Pre-Shuron Hakke Kaidou to Post-Shuron Hakke Kaidou. That just doesn't work.
How is that an advantage? ACoC isn't automatically stronger than Buso.
She has 0 Kenbun feats. She couldn't even sense Luffy dying or turning into Gear 5. She needed Momonosuke to point it out for her. If anything, her Kenbun is absolute baseline level.
CoA Gear 5 > Pre-Shuron Hakke Kaidou who wasn't using the full extend of his Haki or strength. Also, that's durability not endurance. Endurance measures how long you can go after your body withstands injuries. Lucci took attacks that dealt far more damage than anything Yamato was left with and could keep going.
That's a feat for Zoro, not an anti-feat for Lucci.
Post-Shuron Hakke vs Pre-Shuron Hakke.
That's a big if first off, and secondly there's no real proof that the Thunder Bagua would leave him with significant injuries, considering the absolute most it would do is leave him with a broken bone, which he can regenerate from. Unless you think Yamato's Thunder Bagua, or any of her attacks are somehow superior to a Dawn Whip or Mole Pistol from Gear 5 Luffy, her putting him down or dealing relevant damage to him is out of the question.
If you make it, I will unironically do the "Katakuri, collect the sample" one.
Alright.
True.
And he also failed to dodge attacks from him thrice. Once while he was using a speed amp.
It isn't, but it's still a massive power amp, and it's one that Lucci doesn't have at all.
Well, you can argue with who ever put a list of Kenbun feats she has on her profile.
How? Again, the dude literally passed out from a Dawn Pistol (or what ever it was called). And I don't even think that attack had Haki in it. Even a huge Yamato hater like you has to admit it's really dumb to claim that she can't at least do what a Hakiless speed amped Dawn Pistol did to him.
I'm well aware, I'm just saying his recovery/regen still has a limit.
This is gonna be a painful argument for me ain't it? I'm reaping what I've sowed, though, can't complain about that.
...What??
The King and Katakuri bit I was meming about.
So I make a SquardoxOnigumo fanfic and you make a KingxKatakuri one?
Gear 5 Luffy is definitely faster than Lucci by a lot. That's not really debatable (Luffy literally slept while dodging him), but the point still remains that he was able to dodge at least one attack from him, which still places Lucci's speed above Yamato's Thunder Bagua since Gear 5 Luffy was able to blitz a Shuron Hakke Kaidou's TB while Yamato's best speed feat is matching a pre-Shuron Hakke Kaidou's TB speed.
We're comparing strength of Haki (needed to break out of ice), not the the amps given. Also, that's still pretty debatable in and of itself.
I mean to say 0 Kenbun feats that would put her above the standard Kebun usage level. Lucci was able to sense the Elders with Kenbun at a relative pace to Zoro (same reason we rate the Admirals as having relative Kenbun). Zoro's Kenbun is above the standard Kenbun usage level.
I genuinely don't think she can. This isn't even hate. I mean we're talking about GEAR 5 LUFFY here. Yamato was in awe of the power of BASE LUFFY and was even more shocked about gear 5. I really have no reason to believe that Yamato can replicate this.
A limit that Yamato seemingly can't reach. This was a Lucci after getting destroyed by Luffy 3 times and having to recover each time, and then fighting the Seraphim, and then fighting Zoro for an extended period of time.
I'm sorry but I gotta throw in the towel. I don't have the mental strength for this argument. I'm very sorry.
I'm still surprised someone did Lucci vs. Momonosuke before this matchup
That was a really stupid matchup.
What chapter did this happen in? Eseseso always mentioned Gear 5 Luffy being faster than TB but I could never find the panel showing it.
vsbattles.fandom.com
Someone has already put Egghead Lucci in a matchup with Post-Udon Luffy before the arc ended, so Egghead Lucci vs. Yamato should be fine.
Cool. I'm not making it and I'm gonna try not to participate either, I wanna see how it plays out without me saying a word.
Thanks1037
Kaidou, Luffy, Roger, and Primebeard scale that high with specific techniques
We're so ******* cooked bro
I bet one day it'll go back down to those. It's a goofy cycle.
It's fabulous..
Trust me, I already know the deal. We lost High 6-A not too long ago, remember?
He never actually did if I remember correctly
The calcs for something like this would have been insane.This just randomly reminded me of a fan-prediction from the early Raid
For an individual. For example, Yamato's Haō is much stronger than her Buso, but not necessarily stronger than Garp's.
Shh he has to deny Lucci loses to her
Star Gun.
Is that a DB reference??This just randomly reminded me of a fan-prediction from the early Raid
