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One Piece Chapter 1009: "Hell" (Official Release)

Agreed, I'm glad that he didn't cancel out the attack or overpowered it somehow. In my opinion a Yonkou combo attack should only be evenly clashed with or over powered by another Yonkou combo attack (but I'll probably be wrong).

Small question, but has Hakoku been calc'ed before?
 
Man, Wano is longer than Japan, probably bigger over all...

How big was Alabasta calc'ed to be?

Also, Onigashima is deceptively big:
 
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I'm waiting for Onigashima to be compared to Wano so we get the official size of Onigashima, since we have a stupidly large size for Wano.
Click to expand...

That wouldn't be consistent anyway.

We see how big Onigashima is in relation to the characters. We wouldn't just upgrade it to being hundreds of kilometers across.
 
KingTempest said:
- Kid: "Trafalgar !! Can't you send one of them away with your ability?"
- Law:" If I could I would have done it already !! Their Haki is so strong that I cannot move them."

What did I say.

What did I tell everybody.


They didn't believe in me

But I was CORRECT
72ed36805b3fe595b9e7a3e04467ff5f2c976893.jpg


WAITING FOR THE CHAPTER TO DROP SO I CAN PUT RESISTANCE TO TELEPORTATION ON THE PAGE
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We didn't have much evidence before. But I believe that only a very high level of Haki can resist Law's BFR. Doflamingo and Luffy even though they have haki at a more advanced level than Law were affected by it in Dresrossa :v
 
Ryuga21 said:
We didn't have much evidence before. But I believe that only a very high level of Haki can resist Law's BFR. Doflamingo and Luffy even though they have haki at a more advanced level than Law were affected by it in Dresrossa :v
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We were told that Haki counters DFs and that Law's powers can be resisted.

We don't know the strength of any of their Haki compared to each other. The only comparison we get is Vergo's > everyone else's.

Only Advanced Haki is shown to have different abilities than weaker versions.
 
KingTempest said:
Maybe in the case of the people who Amputate worked on (Vergo), the fullbody haki < regular haki focused in one place.

Edit: Law has Haki too
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I think it has to do with simply Vergo's Haki "potency/density" just happens to be weaker than what's necessary to stop an attack from someone like Law in general, therefore Law is just flat out >> Vergo in power.

Law wasn't shown using Haki, and he currently has no feats of utilizing the ability to imbue objects/weapons with Haki (only his arms). I think it is unlikely that he was using Haki to take down Vergo, but it's all speculative.

RoyGundam said:
I think level of DF mastery is more likely to be the deciding factor - in which case Law vs Vergo would make more sense, Vergo, it looked like, had mastered Haki to a much greater degree than Law, but Law's Devil Fruit usage was potent enough to overcome that (which was something even Doffy didn't anticipate)
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Maybe not "DF mastery", but more-so how "powerful" the character is in general. If Vergo tried to take a normal quake-punch from a Whitebeard, could we really say Vergo would negate it?

Doffy really underestimated Law in the entire Dressrosa Saga. But at least he proved himself to be strong enough with Haki to at least resist the Ope-Ope abilities. Only time iirc he was impacted by the Spacial abilities was when he was off-guard in Chapter 759. Otherwise, he negated the ability and only bled slightly ("Mes" leaving a cut on his face... despite not functioning like a blade, and a ROOM stab only leaving a small cut in Doffy's hand--though this is likely Doffy intentionally clenching the blade hard enough so that Law can't retract it...).
 
Speaking of that.

Do we have any guidelines on when we consider the user to be using invisible haki?

Because every instance we see a haki user not use Haki, we assume they're not even though there are many instances of otherwise
 
KingTempest said:
Speaking of that.

Do we have any guidelines on when we consider the user to be using invisible haki?

Because every instance we see a haki user not use Haki, we assume they're not even though there are many instances of otherwise
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Typically, if there is no statement or implication, we assume they did not use Haki, but it's case-by-case:

1) Doflamingo and Katakuri being able to wound Luffy with what appears to be normal kicks. We assume neither of them used Haki in these cases mostly due to the following reasons:
  • Luffy has previously shown that he can take damage from individuals who attack via punches and kicks from characters comparable to or stronger than him. Doflamingo and Katakuri are evidently stronger than Luffy by a wide margin to the point where it's nearly a stomp (without Gear 4th, ofc).
  • It's strange to assume D/K are using invisible Haki when the editors/Oda could simply color in the Hardening effect so that there is a visual indicator. No visual indicator means it's almost certain to be a normal attack for Hardening users.

2) Tashigi slashes Monet. We know a sword can not harm a snow-woman in any way--let alone make them BLEED. Obvious use of Haki for following reasons:
  • Tashigi hurt a Snow-type Logia without any suggestion of using heat or special ability, meaning Haki.
  • We've never seen a case of a Logia user being wounded by an attack that is NOT an element that can bypass their intangibility (i.e. Crocodile's sand vs Water, or in this case, Monet's Snow vs fire/heat)

Those are just a couple examples, but it basically gets the point across.
 
Monet was stated to use Haki.

A lot of the instances where Luffy took damage from people stronger than him have further context from their damage.

Luffy got "harmed" by Foxy, but when Garp punched him in his head, the Strawhats were like "whaaaat how did he hurt Luffy?????". Same with Rayleigh's statement and Jinbe's Fishmen Karate.
 
KingTempest said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Kenbunshoku Haki Additions

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
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Honestly, Thermographic Vision is the only one I think is wrong on there. Shanks refers to Ace's Haki as resembling fire (referring to his will, his "fiery spirit"), rather than saying he literally sees fire. Benn Beckmann notes that Ace melted the snow away with his presence (referring to his heat), but there's nothing here suggesting that Shanks said he sensed Ace's DF ability.
 
So like a thought, it was the strongest attack because it was a Yonkou combo attack, not because it's the best feat in the series.

Man, the 5 supernovas that are present seemingly become more and more impressive as the fight goes on, the Wano revisions are gonna be wild.

And Zoro now has arguably the best feat among the strawhats.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Honestly, Thermographic Vision is the only one I think is wrong on there. Shanks refers to Ace's Haki as resembling fire (referring to his will, his "fiery spirit"), rather than saying he literally sees fire. Benn Beckmann notes that Ace melted the snow away with his presence (referring to his heat), but there's nothing here suggesting that Shanks said he sensed Ace's DF ability.
Click to expand...
I felt skeptical about that one, someone advised me to add it, I said "screw it, why not"
 
Yeah even if it was for a split second that was a pretty legit feat of Durability although if Law hadnt moved him he probably would have died. Makes me curious what that attack would have done unhindered.
 
He did, if he didn't Zoro would at minimum be dead.

But the fact that Zoro was able to hold back the attack for a second is still an insane feat that's arguably better than the rest of the Straw hats feats.

Also, I agree with the idea of separating base feats from buso feats, this fight further proves this.
 
I hope that Marco can get to the roof to heal and help the supernovas. It would be great if the Wano samurai can together take care of King and Queen in the meantime.
 
That would be very helpful and maybe even a game changer. It would also be cool to see how the scabbards would fair with King and Queen, since unlike Kaido, they would probably take the fight more seriously.

But I seriously need my boy Sanji to actually do something, his rival is sort of making him look like a clown. At this point, he's not even fighting for second place anymore, he's fighting for third alongside Jinbei.
 
PsychoWarper said:
Luffy and maybe Jinbe are legitimately the only two other SHs that have feats even close to that one for Zoro.
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Zoro stopped that blow for a second and was notoriously injured in serious condition (He would die if it weren't for Law). Luffy has stunned Kaido for a while with Kong Gatling and tanked many blows from his hybrid in base form. Holding for a second an attack that can kill him is not something he could not do.
 
Alright, the fan translations are out and I gotta say, pretty damn hype chapter imo.

Zoro's feat is a little more impressive now as Big Mom and Kaido are shocked that Zoro was even able to stop the attack for a short while. The fanlation doesn't state the time, so someone's gotta have to directly translate what Kid said to know if a timeframe was given. Also nice to see Zoro use Crossing of the Six Paths again, but this time it's the flame cutter variant.

We now have two new attacks for Kaido and one for Big Mom, Ocean Sovereignty (or Hakai) which would be listed on both of their files as a combo attack, and Three Realms-Ragnarok for Kaido. Would Three Realms-Ragnarok count as a haki attack cause of the lightning? Or is that the same lightning as the Thunder Bagua?
 
We're obviously not doing revisions yet, but assuming specific upgrades are placed ([some]7-A+ and H7-A being -> 6-C and 6-C, poss 6-B + the Haki-in-tier discussion), this is probably what it's going to look like for Zoro (and honestly the other Supernova currently fighting... except Killer atm due to his lack of non-hax feats):

"At least 6-C (x reasons will be explained below), Possibly 6-B (Partial scaling to Kaido/Big Mom), Up to 6-B with Haki"

6-C would theoretically come from the "low-end" scaling to Doflamingo and Katakuri (Assuming Doflamingo's 6-C feat is scaled to him). Just a reminder there would be justification for Doffy and Kata each scaling as "At least 6-C, Poss 6-B"
  • Law in Dressrosa would be "At least 7-A (stomping Vergo), Poss 6-C (being capable of doing slight harm to Doflamingo through his Haki)", but this will be discussed in a separate thread since this is a long-ish topic to cover why his AP would scale.
  • Dressrosa Luffy in Base (including Gear2/3) would be "At least 7-A (same reasons), Poss 6-C with Haki" for being able to deal slight harm to Katakuri, and being able to harm a wounded Doflamingo--but ultimately being FAR weaker to both. Gear 4th would scale to Doflamingo as "At least 6-C, Poss 6-B" for obv reasons (again, assuming Doffy ends up scaling here).
Poss 6-B is simple enough to understand. Although weaker than the Yonko, each Supernova has been shown capable of consistently taking hits without being incapacitated--but they are shown wounded quite badly when taking direct blows (except via Prometheus lmao).
  • In fact, the homies would probably need a semi-upgrade to their stats since they can deal slight damage to the Supernova (and Napoleon can withstand the impact of BM's attacks), thus they would probably look like "At least 7-A (one-shot Judge), potentially far higher/up to 6-C/B/whatever"
Up to 6-B with Haki (and Gear 4th Bound Man) is pretty much supported:
  • Luffy with Gear 3rd hurt Kaido w/ Red Roc
  • Luffy in Gear 4th was capable of downing Kaido momentarily and was capable of taking his attacks head-on.
  • Zoro w/ Enma could hurt Kaido when amp'd with Haki
  • Killer only hurt Kaido via hax, and otherwise did minimal damage, so he doesn't count.
  • Law hurt Kaido via hax, and otherwise has done very little damage so he doesn't count.
  • We have not seen Kid use Haki in a successful attack yet (iirc).
  • Luffy took a direct strike from Hybrid Kaido using Haki on his arms and was only moderately damaged.
  • Zoro survived a combined attack from both Yonko (would've died, but this suggests he could take a strong hit from one of them, maybe)
  • Law/Kid/Killer all took hits from Big Mom.
Assuming the 6-C, Poss 6-B stuff for Doffy is rejected though, only Luffy/Zoro/Kid/Killer would be given a "At least High 7-A, Poss 6-B" rating for similar reasons. Law is debatable.
 
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