• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.
2,581
4,153
Note: This isn't talking just about admirals but also a few people who have "fought" them for better or worse.

AKAINU
Possibly Danmaku:
Via Meteor Volcano

RAYLEIGH
AP:
Just linking more evidence that his prime-self is above his older-self

KUZAN
Elemental Intangibility:
Should be removed as he's solid ice. I think Inorganic Anatomy & Regeneration are already enough for his elemental body.
AP: Froze Whitebeard's tsunami.

SHANKS
AP:
Alongside his crew stopped Kaido and King from reaching Marineford.
Intermediate Kenbunshoku: Sensed Greenbull's presence between Udon Prison and the Flower Capital while he himself hadn't entered Wano yet.
Limited Fire Manipulation: Can set his blade ablaze.

BORSALINO
AP:
Should be compareble to his fellow colleges.
Durability: Took a naginata smack from by WB.
Remove: "Fought with Marco for an extended period/clashed with him throughout the Paramount War"-Between Marco kicking Kizaru out of the sky and Kizaru shooting Marco in the back, both of them were on different places dealing with other things.

MARCO
Speed:
Can jump out of the way of Kizaru's light bullets from a close range.
Remove: "Blitzed Zoan Queen"-Searched anime/manga, couldn't find it. If anybody finds it, notify me.
Stamina: "He took several laser beams from Kizaru and was still seen standing without showing any signs of being severely damaged (A noteworthy achievement, as he was unable to regenerate due to Seastone handcuffs)."->"Survived getting shot by Kizaru's lasers even after getting cuffed with seastone, negating his special regeneration powers". His current justification is wrong for the following.

GREEN-BULL
AP:
I agree that Fujitora is likely comparable to GB, but real evidence needs to be linked for that. Do we need to copy-paste GB feats in Issho, Shanks & Momo's pages? It's like putting all of BM with Napolepon feats on Base Kaido's page just cuz they're scale but this is even worse considering his feats. Greenbull "stomping" the Scabbards is him literally just outnumbering the them with vines then restraining them using sevaral of them. If this is what we consider "stomp" than Hajruding stomped Luffy for holding him inside his grip or Goku stomped Raditz for keeping him in a full nelson? I doubt it. He "beat" Flame Off King, Queen & Raizo by piercing them with Koka vines and bypassing durability by sucking their nutrients. These feats are more so AOE, LS & Hax rather than just pure AP only. It's like mentioning Akainu melting WB face in Aokiji page cuz they equals.

MOMONOSUKE
AP:
"Burned a hole straight through Greenbull, who stomped five of the Nine Scabbards and defeated both King and Queen, with Bolo Breath"->"Blasted a hole thru Greenbull's golem form and burned it down with his Bolo Breaths despite the admiral previously negating Raizo's Fire Release with his Fireproof Forest." This is literally the most fair and 1 to 1 comparison you can get: Both tried to exploit the same elemental advantage against GB, expect Momo succeeded making him above Raizo.
Durability: Took a slam from GB. Should be at least be comparable to his strength as dragons are noted for their toughness.
Potential Regeneration: At 1st I though GB cracked Momo bones because of the sound effect used and Momo regened those akin to Kaido. But others pointed that the effect has been used on other characters without bone getting actually broken. GB's wood made that sound even without attaking anyone too.

PORTGAS D. ACE
AP:
Was called strong by Shanks, Blackbeard and was said to have have put up one hell of a fight against the latter.
Higher Speed via Acceleration: Dodged casual attacks from WB.
Durability: "Took many blows from Blackbeard, who in turn was capable of clashing against Ace’s own attacks." Just remove the last part. Ace got hit by BB's meele combos, only BB's black hole clashed with Ace's Entei.
Accelerated Development: More evidence
Expert H2H Combatant: Excels in combat inspite of his Devil Fruit.
Intelligance: Reconized by WB as a brilliant youngster.


SENGOKU THE BUDDHA
AP
Prime:
Linking justification for him & Garp being stronger than their older counterparts.
Pre-Timeskip: Linking justification about his position of . "Injured Blackbeard with a shockwave after the latter had gotten the Gura-Gura no mi"->"Injured the Blackbeard Pirates with a shockwave". The output of the attack is split between all 10 making this more impressive. Also it's not like the quake fruit made BB more durable. This should also be mentioned in the BB Pirates durability section much like it is done with Nami's lightning attack & her victims durability section.
Remove: "Statistics Amplification (via grudge)"-No clue where this came from.
Speed: Tagged Lafitt who could evade Ace's Hiken with his shockwave.
Possibly Durability Negation: Via Shockwaves

CREDITS: Shout out to @RoronoaxRobin and @MonkeyOfLife for providing additional evidence.
 
Last edited:
AKAINU
Possibly Danmaku:
Via Meteor Volcano
Have you calc it?
RAYLEIGH
AP:
Just linking more evidence that his prime-self is above his older-self
There is barely anything about Rayleigh either is old or "prime", he got older but he could have become more proeficient with haki over time
KUZAN
Elemental Intangibility:
Should be removed as he's solid ice. I think Inorganic Anatomy & Regeneration are already enough for his elemental body.
Hardly solid ice is still an element.
SHANKS
AP:
Alongside his crew stopped Kaido and King from reaching Marineford.
No, we dont know how he stopped kaidou from going to Marineford, even if a fight actually happen we dont know if Shanks fought alone or if it was a fair fight.
BORSALINO
AP:
Should be compareble to his fellow colleges.
Considering Akainu has the "most offensive fruit" everyone else scales bellow him.

MOMONOSUKE
AP:
"Burned a hole straight through Greenbull, who stomped five of the Nine Scabbards and defeated both King and Queen, with Bolo Breath"->"Blasted a hole thru Greenbull's golem form and burned it down with his Bolo Breaths despite the admiral previously negating Raizo's Fire Release with his Fireproof Forest." This is literally the most fair and 1 to 1 comparison you can get: Both tried to exploit
Hardly burning doesnt scale to resistance because it ignores convencional resistance. But he could scale with Raizo.
Durability: Took a slam from GB. Should be at least be comparable to his strength as dragons are noted for their toughness.
Not sure Green Bull doesnt look like he takes momonosuke seriously.
PORTGAS D.ACE
AP:
Was called strong by Shanks, Blackbeard and was said to have have put up one hell of a fight against the latter.
called strong is no scalling i hate when people do that, if he said something like "he is stronger than me" then should be ok but just saying it is strong is way too vague.
Higher Speed via Acceleration: Dodged casual attacks from WB.
Durability: "Took many blows from Blackbeard, who in turn was capable of clashing against Ace’s own attacks." Just remove the last part. Ace got hit by BB's meele combos, only BB's black hole clashed with Ace's Entei.
Keep in mind that blackbeard was using his ability to stop ace's fruit and blackbeard before he got gura gura no mi
Accelerated Development: More evidence
Expert H2H Combatant: Excels in combat inspite of his Devil Fruit.
Not sure, can we really called that expert combatent? I mean experience is different from actual marcial arts trainning.
Intelligance: Reconized by WB as a brilliant youngster.
It seems mostly about his power rather than actual intelligence.
Possibly Limited Durability Negation: Via Shockwaves
Dont think so. Or at least needs better justification. Shockwaves hit pretty much like a punch if it hits strong enough may lead to internal injuries but that doesnt apply to durability negation.
 
There is barely anything about Rayleigh either is old or "prime", he got older but he could have become more proeficient with haki over time
0 proof for the retired geezer to have strengthened his haki. I'm surpised you didn't come up with this bad reasoning for Sengoku/Garp.
Hardly solid ice is still an element.
Still an element, just not an intagibile one.
No, we dont know how he stopped kaidou from going to Marineford, even if a fight actually happen we dont know if Shanks fought alone or if it was a fair fight.
We don't know the details in the Reverie either yet we still use it for Sabo. Shanks is in Kaido's personal list of people who can fight him and I doubt he would've been put there if he didn't have any kind of relativity to Kaido.
called strong is no scalling i hate when people do that, if he said something like "he is stronger than me" then should be ok but just saying it is strong is way too vague.
Sengoku called Hancock strong, Kin'emon called Kid strong, those too are being used. Ace literally downscales from BB for putting up a fight against him.
Keep in mind that blackbeard was using his ability to stop ace's fruit and blackbeard before he got gura gura no mi
?? That ability doesn't lower Ace's durability & neither me nor the profile mention BB using the quake fruit on him so I already had that in mind.
 
Last edited:
0 proof for the retired geezer to have strengthened his haki. I'm surpised you didn't come up with this bad reasoning for Sengoku/Garp.
We have no prove of nothing we dont have any kind scale for prime Ray for me his "prime" key shouldnt even exist until we actually see him fight in his prime, if we are to make a key for every old character it would be ridiculous. Sengoku and Garp at least have a sort of scale with Rogers and a statement that say that Garp's power decreased as an old men.
Still an element, just not an intagibile one.
Even if you break his ice you still dont hurt Kuzan.
We don't know the details in the Reverie either yet we still use it for Sabo.
So another mistake
Shanks is in Kaido's personal list of people who can fight him and I doubt he would've been put there if he didn't have any kind of relativity to Kaido.
Im pretty sure he was talking about strong haki, but anyways it doesnt matter if we go by those standards then Moria gets equal to kaidou because they fough once.
Sengoku called Hancock strong, Kin'emon called Kid strong, those too are being used. Ace literally downscales from BB for putting up a fight against him.
So wrong scaling here my god this clearly needs to be fixed. Whitebeard wasnt even going all out he was playing with Ace lol kid Ace now is kaidou level? Why people cant make a proper scaling.
?? That ability doesn't lower Ace's durability & neither me nor the profile mention BB using the quake fruit on him so I already had that in mind.
Ace uses his intangibility a lot against blackbeard he was unable to.
 
We have no prove of nothing we dont have any kind scale for prime Ray for me his "prime" key shouldnt even exist until we actually see him fight in his prime, if we are to make a key for every old character it would be ridiculous.
Blame the one who added him the prime key. He still would upscale from his old self.
Sengoku and Garp at least have a sort of scale with Rogers and a statement that say that Garp's power decreased as an old men.
Rayleigh: "Has retired, comments how he hasn't held a sword for awhile, wants to help the stawhats while fighting Kizaru but complains about his age and says in his current age he couldn't beat Blackbeard."-He got weaker too.
Even if you break his ice you still dont hurt Kuzan.
Inorganic Physiology+Regen still cover that.
Ace uses his intangibility a lot against blackbeard he was unable to.
So? Logia users in general use their intangibility a lot and that gets negged by haki users. Or when Luffy exploided Crocodile and Enel weakness.
Whitebeard wasnt even going all out he was playing with Ace lol kid Ace now is kaidou level?
HELL NO!! Do you even read the page?
Ace: "Burned the hand of a casual Old Whitebeard and made him guard with his Devil Fruit in their last two duels."
WB: "Stronger than his subordinates Marco, Jozu, Vista, Izou and Ace"
So wrong scaling here my god this clearly needs to be fixed
Why people cant make a proper scaling.
I don't know waterboy, why can't you make your own thread and explain in detail your flawless scaling for the verse there? And no, I won't take this an excuse. There's users making new OP ctrs nigh-weekly without concluding their older ones. It won't be the same situation as with that marvel character.
 
Inorganic Physiology+Regen still cover that.
It doesn't but I plan to make a Logia revamp to cover that issue due to Aokiji & GB's fruits.

It's fine to remove it from Aokiji for now though, just means I need to get to work on the Logia thread.
 
Blame the one who added him the prime key. He still would upscale from his old self.
Dont know who he is.
Rayleigh: "Has retired, comments how he hasn't held a sword for awhile, wants to help the stawhats while fighting Kizaru but complains about his age and says in his current age he couldn't beat Blackbeard."-He got weaker too.
Again saying that his age is a problem doesnt mean he is weaker than in his prime that we have no measure to.
Inorganic Physiology+Regen still cover that.
His fruit is not the ice fruit he just controls ice and turns himself into ice i thought his profile already covers that.
So? Logia users in general use their intangibility a lot and that gets negged by haki users. Or when Luffy exploided Crocodile and Enel weakness.
Exacly when their fruits get surpassed they are more affected by attacks.
HELL NO!! Do you even read the page?
Ace: "Burned the hand of a casual Old Whitebeard and made him guard with his Devil Fruit in their last two duels."
WB: "Stronger than his subordinates Marco, Jozu, Vista, Izou and Ace"
Whitebeared was also damaged by bullets because he was so weak. Old whitebeared cant even use haki properly.
I don't know waterboy, why can't you make your own thread and explain in detail your flawless scaling for the verse there? And no, I won't take this an excuse. There's users making new OP ctrs nigh-weekly without concluding their older ones. It won't be the same situation as with that marvel character.
I still care more about the thread im planning for Captain Marvel there is still a bunch of stuff to make it.
But soon and i will talk about the very stupid scaling of Shiki's calc scaling to basically the entire verse.
 
His fruit is not the ice fruit he just controls ice and turns himself into ice i thought his profile already covers that.
Yes it does. I just want to remove the intagibility part, cuz it isn't intangible.
Again saying that his age is a problem doesnt mean he is weaker than in his prime that we have no measure to.

Exacly when their fruits get surpassed they are more affected by attacks.

Whitebeared was also damaged by bullets because he was so weak. Old whitebeared cant even use haki properly.
The amount context thrown out of the window is disgust, I'll stop responding
I still care more about the thread im planning for Captain Marvel there is still a bunch of stuff to make it.
But soon and i will talk about the very stupid scaling of Shiki's calc scaling to basically the entire verse.
And yet you cared enough to invade other people's threads, go off topic and talk about the Shiki scaling.
Whatever you do, do it elsewhere.
 
Yes it does. I just want to remove the intagibility part, cuz it isn't intangible.

The amount context thrown out of the window is disgust, I'll stop responding

And yet you cared enough to invade other people's threads, go off topic and talk about the Shiki scaling.
Whatever you do, do it elsewhere.
I do, not off topic this thread here is exacly about Admirals and the other was about scaling for blackbeard that is scaling to Shiki like everyone else
I really dont care that you dont like what i have to say, but i will keep say whatever i want either you like it or not.
 
Didn't Greenbull defeat Whitebeard Jr.?

And considering the latter could still cry out for his mama, he probably wasn't drained of his inner nutrients like King, Queen, and Raizo.

And as you linked in the OP, both Issho and Greenbull were portrayed as comparable to Kizaru as well in that panel where they're all shown together.
 
Ye

Queen was still speaking properly after he got his nutrients sucked
Yeah, but he didn't seem capable of yelling healthily like Weevil was due to being sucked of his energy.
I rather wait a little more before making those 2 comperable to the old admiral trio
I get that, but in 3 of the 4 panels here (as in all but the first panel), the admirals are portrayed on comparable footing.
 
Yeah, but he didn't seem capable of yelling healthily like Weevil was due to being sucked of his energy.
Those sharp speech bubbles are used for yelling
I get that, but in 3 of the 4 panels here (as in all but the first panel), the admirals are portrayed on comparable footing.
Thing is this, Prime Sengoku was an admiral but none of the Pre-Timeskip Admirals scale to him. I'm playing it safe and scale Fujitora just to GB for now since they became admirals around the same time and were compared to one another.
 
Those sharp speech bubbles are used for yelling

Thing is this, Prime Sengoku was an admiral but none of the Pre-Timeskip Admirals scale to him. I'm playing it safe and scale Fujitora just to GB for now since they became admirals around the same time.
That's fair.

I just was worried that Issho, GB, and Sabo might get downgraded to just scaling above the Scabbard levels in AP for a sec
 
Get scaled just because they have the same rank? Thats surely a no Garp would scale to every Vice admiral and Buggy would scale to kaidou.
If you bothered to read the justification for Kizaru in the OP you'd know why the admirals are treated comparable as Navy HQ's Strongest powers.

Garp is the exception to this as he turned down the role due to not wanting to work for the Celestial Dragons, he's an exception that isn't being included here at all.

The profiles don't scales the Emperor's off of the fact they're Emperors, only their feats and statements so buggy isn't relevant here either.
 
If you bothered to read the justification for Kizaru in the OP you'd know why the admirals are treated comparable as Navy HQ's Strongest powers.

Garp is the exception to this as he turned down the role due to not wanting to work for the Celestial Dragons, he's an exception that isn't being included here at all.

The profiles don't scales the Emperor's off of the fact they're Emperors, only their feats and statements so buggy isn't relevant here either.
To which are mentioned only the 3 admirals aokiji, kizaru and akainu the fact they are admirals for some time now and they got their reputation, new ones as GB and fujitora are not scaling.
Even in terms of those 3 admirals Kizaru is stated to be the fastest and akainu to have the "most offensive fruit" which would mean that akaino should scale higher in attack potency and Kizaru should scale higher in speed.
I still disagree with using "most offensive fruit" to scale Akainu with Shiki.
 
To which are mentioned only the 3 admirals aokiji, kizaru and akainu
The same statement has been said for Fujitora as well. It applies to all admirals.
Even in terms of those 3 admirals Kizaru is stated to be the fastest and akainu to have the "most offensive fruit" which would mean that akaino should scale higher in attack potency and Kizaru should scale higher in speed.
And despite all that Aokiji was still able to put up a fight against him for ten days straight, it's almost like they're comparable.
I still disagree with using "most offensive fruit" to scale Akainu with Shiki.
No one care, you need to stop derailing threads with this shit.
 
The same statement has been said for Fujitora as well. It applies to all admirals.
So where is that scan?
And despite all that Aokiji was still able to put up a fight against him for ten days straight, it's almost like they're comparable.
So? Luffy fought Katakuri for a long time but they werent equals, Moria fought Kaidou and they surely wont scale.
No one care, you need to stop derailing threads with this shit.
Not derailing this is about scaling
 
So where is that scan?
I'll look for it when I feel like it.
So? Luffy fought Katakuri for a long time but they werent equals, Moria fought Kaidou and they surely wont scale.
From the profiles:
Matched Akainu, his equal, for ten days
Was stated to have once matched Kaido of the Four Emperors, later reaffirmed by direct narration.
Not derailing this is about scaling
It's absolutely derailing, this Shiki shit has nothing to do with the OP or the other thread I saw you coping on either.
 
I'll look for it when I feel like it.

From the profiles:
Then this is worse than i though so we are not scaling Luffy to Moria who fought Kaidou? Making Luffy pre time skip comparable to kaidou?
It's absolutely derailing, this Shiki shit has nothing to do with the OP or the other thread I saw you coping on either.
Everyone is scaling of Shiki the only multi continental calcs are from shiki and everyone is scaling of him, Shiki scales to Whitebeard and Akainu' fruits which apparently scale to akainu and whitebeared that scale to all admirals and rogers and all yonkous that scale to marco and mihawk and so on even Crocodile is scaling his durability of that calc, anyways the point is everyone in this thread is scaling of that single feat
 
Then this is worse than i though so we are not scaling Luffy to Moria who fought Kaidou? Making Luffy pre time skip comparable to kaidou?
Why would we scale Luffy to Prime Moria??
Everyone is scaling of Shiki the only multi continental calcs are from shiki and everyone is scaling of him, Shiki scales to Whitebeard and Akainu' fruits which apparently scale to akainu and whitebeared that scale to all admirals and rogers and all yonkous that scale to marco and mihawk and so on even Crocodile is scaling his durability of that calc, anyways the point is everyone in this thread is scaling of that single feat
Didn't read all that, looks like more Shiki cope tho. Go make a CRT and stop derailing this thread bruh.
 
Btw Gecko moria has a mistake on his profile his ap has 3 keys
Attack Potency: Unknown (Has not displayed any physical feats of his own), up to Mountain level with Doppleman (Can harm and draw blood from Thriller Bark Luffy and Nico Robin. Could also pierce through Little Oars Jr., however he was heavily weakened from Kuma’s Ursus Shock at the time) | Mountain level (Stated to be stronger than Oars) | Unknown, possibly Multi-Continent level (Was stated to have once matched Kaido of the Four Emperors, later reaffirmed by direct narration. However the details of the conflict are unknown, and Moria lost his entire crew)
Someone added an extra "|"
 
He beated moria after losing to kaido got even more shadows for his army
Read the profiles, that's his prime key from over 20 years ago where we treat him stronger, Luffy doesn't scale.

Regardless it seems you've conceded and dropped the admiral argument so I don't need to continue this shit.
Btw Gecko moria has a mistake on his profile his ap has 3 keys
Not a mistake, that's for his asgard form. Next time bring this up in the general discussion thread tho.
Everyone in this thread is scaling of Shiki
Nothing in this thread covers the scaling to Shiki, only the individual characters own scaling.
 
Read the profiles, that's his prime key from over 20 years ago where we treat him stronger, Luffy doesn't scale.
Ther isnt any key for "20 years ago"
Key: Base | Shadow Asgard
Regardless it seems you've conceded and dropped the admiral argument so I don't need to continue this shit.
You didnt tried to argue about that anymore
Not a mistake, that's for his asgard form. Next time bring this up in the general discussion thread tho.
There are only 2 keys in his profile
Nothing in this thread covers the scaling to Shiki, only the individual characters own scaling.
Covers considering that all AP and and durability is from everyone here is about Shiki's calc
 
If he has 3 keys why is that his speed only has 2?
Speed: Relativistic (His Doppleman could easily react to Luffy’s Gatling Gun and block it. Moria himself could easily outrun Luffy long enough for the the rubber boy to get tired. Is fast enough to swap places with his shadow before Sanji w/ Diable Jambe or Robin could successfully land their strikes against him) | Relativistic (Shouldn’t be slower than before)
So as his stamina
Stamina: Very high, was still able to fight after taking hits from Nightmare Luffy | Unknown, likely immense
Very high is also not a stamina level, neither is immense
 
Ther isnt any key for "20 years ago"
You're right, his prime key just needs to be added as it was already accepted and applied here:
You didnt tried to argue about that anymore
I already made my case, we treat them as equals on the profiles. You want to disagree with that you can make a CRT to get it changed, I don't care to derail this thread by debating what's already accepted and applied in a thread it's not relevant to.
Covers considering that all AP and and durability is from everyone here is about Shiki's calc
Learn to read. This CRT isn't changing the values of any of those characters, this is covering extra scaling justifications.

None of the shit you keep going on about involves the OP, you're simply derailing.
 
Read the profiles, that's his prime key from over 20 years ago where we treat him stronger, Luffy doesn't scale.
why does Marco need a statement for why he become stronger post timeskip but its fine to assume Gecko moria is weaker after fighting kaidou? I understand that 70's take a toll on their bodies but gecko pre time skip wasnt even 50.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top