Omega fights a Hot Topic Goddess

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

// Speed is Equalized
// Hecateia is 2-C and Bloodlusted (No Spellcard Rules)
// Omega in his FF14 Key and is 2-A.
// Both start 100 Feet away from each other
// Battle takes place at the Lunar Capital (Touhou)
// SBA Otherwise

Heartless Evolotion

Freaky T-Shirt Weirdo: @Deidalius

They both take over the moon:

 

[Deidalius]

LostWord so bump.

It's weird seeing Hecatia barefoot in another artstyle. Her design heavily benefited from having boots in that one official manga. She should wear boots more often. Though I don't mind seeing her barefoot feet.

Anyway, since I made an unrelated rant, I should probably argue a little bit. Checking what this wiki says about Hecatia's powerset, Hecatia has Radiation manipulation and Concept Manipulation Type 1 which I doubt Omega can resist. I am leaning towards Hecatia unless Omega has his feet on the ground. Heh, heh. (He has no feet but whatever)

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

It's weird seeing Hecatia barefoot in another artstyle. Her design heavily benefited from having boots in that one official manga. She should wear boots more often. Though I don't mind seeing her barefoot feet.

uhhhh

Anyway, since I made an unrelated rant, I should probably argue a little bit. Checking what this wiki says about Hecatia's powerset, Hecatia has Radiation manipulation and Concept Manipulation Type 1 which I doubt Omega can resist. I am leaning towards Hecatia unless Omega has his feet on the ground. Heh, heh. (He has no feet but whatever)

(time for me to rant too yippee)

ZUN has consistently implied across noteable interviews that she's the strongest in the series, stating that Hecatia is "completely past the level of anyone in Gensokyo or the Lunar Capital." (great argument, I know). This would also encompass beings such as the Sages (Yukari, Kasen, ect) the Oni (Suika, Yuugi, ect), the Animal Realm Rulers, and that one girl who likes mcdonalds or something.

Omega also has experience fighting foes that fly. So the mobility/range argument hardly really matters unless I'm mistaken here. I'm pretty sure that Hecatia is outranged regardless of if she flies or not. In any event, unrestricted Hecatia with no spellcard rules to follow is something we haven't glimpsed yet, so it's mostly moot from there.

Her Danmaku is probably her best defense. It's also what she opens with, having one of the most notoriously dense danmaku patterns in the series. Atomic Ray and Wave Cannon may be able to bust through it with the AP difference, but it's debatable as to whether rockets and missiles will get through at all though without being intercepted.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

bump

 

[Deidalius]

Unrelated but I found the canonical image of Hecatia with boots and I must say that I prefer to see her without boots rather than having her wear those crappy boots.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hecatia_Lapislazuli#/media/File%3AVFiS_Hecatia_with_boots.png

I must have confused her boots with fanart because I remember seeing Hecatia with black knee-high leather boots with belts and I must say that boots like that improve her character design by a lot. Hecatia should wear knee-high black boots more often.

Back to the topic, I believe Hecatia should win due to being smaller and having a tinier hitbox than Omega. With that clunky size, he won't be able to dodge a spam of danmaku while Hecatia should have more experience dodging all the projectiles of Omega due to being a Touhou character.

I don't think Omega resists Hecatia's Radiation and Concept manipulation either.

I vote for Hecatia.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Unrelated but I found the canonical image of Hecatia with boots and I must say that I prefer to see her without boots rather than having her wear those crappy boots.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hecatia_Lapislazuli#/media/File%3AVFiS_Hecatia_with_boots.png I must have confused her boots with fanart because I remember seeing Hecatia with black knee-high leather boots with belts and I must say that boots like that improve her character design by a lot. Hecatia should wear knee-high black boots more often.

please stop talking about her feet it's getting really weird

Back to the topic, I believe Hecatia should win due to being smaller and having a tinier hitbox than Omega. With that clunky size, he won't be able to dodge a spam of danmaku while Hecatia should have more experience dodging all the projectiles of Omega due to being a Touhou character.

I don't think Omega resists Hecatia's Radiation and Concept manipulation either.

I vote for Hecatia.

counted for now

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Changing Omega to his FF14 Iteration, (Stormblood Cutscene Spoilers) which does give him flight. Should still have everything from his FF5 Iteration.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

bump

 

[Hypertornado099]

Changing Omega to his FF14 Iteration, (Stormblood Cutscene Spoilers) which does give him flight. Should still have everything from his FF5 Iteration.

Omega in FF14 isn't the same as FF5's lol, there's no confirmation. Its not like Gilgamesh, there are multiple Omegas

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Omega in FF14 isn't the same as FF5's lol, there's no confirmation. Its not like Gilgamesh, there are multiple Omegas

Please take this to the Discussion thread. I'll address that there later.

For the most part, Omega's scaling in XIV is debatably his strongest incarnation in the series. The entirety of the Stormblood Raids imply that he is an improved version of himself (evident by the fact that he can create improved versions of classic era FF bosses, which includes Exdeath, Kefka, and even meager bosses such as Phantom Train) and possesses 'battle data' from across all classic FF titles, which is evident by his ability to traverse the Interdimensional Rift. Regarding XIV Omega, he is more or less the same incarnation in terms of ability, although his origins do differ as explained in Endwalker (no, he was not made by the Garleans/Allagans)

The Rift is the keypoint that ties beings such as Omega and Gilgamesh to their other appearance across games. Albiet, not all of them apply it in the same way due to a change of style and direction in said games. The important thing to note is that XIV Omega is roughly the same in terms of Abilities, and with objectively higher AP than before. (and Omega's page is missing a lot of things anyways, go figure). The only difference being that Omega has a Humanoid form that he transforms from his machine counterpart, which... doesn't really have a page either, sadly. Typical scaling says on par with Post-game Stormblood WoL; and that's that for AP as far as we currently know.

I also want to note here that the Omega Protocol is not considered canon to XIV's continuity specifically. In essence, Ultimates are relived, exaggerated tales that WoL re-experiences, much like the Extreme series of raids (which is why all of them are called The Minstrel's Ballad: INSERT TRIAL HERE). Their normal counterparts are usually calc'd and considered over those. That could change though, maybe.

Gilgamesh also has multiple, separate iterations of himself that aren't tied to his reoccurring "from the rift" incarnation. FF9 and FF11's Gilgamesh come to mind distinctly.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

bump

 

[Hypertornado099]

Please take this to the Discussion thread. I'll address that there later.

For the most part, Omega's scaling in XIV is debatably his strongest incarnation in the series. The entirety of the Stormblood Raids imply that he is an improved version of himself (evident by the fact that he can create improved versions of classic era FF bosses, which includes Exdeath, Kefka, and even meager bosses such as Phantom Train) and possesses 'battle data' from across all classic FF titles, which is evident by his ability to traverse the Interdimensional Rift. Regarding XIV Omega, he is more or less the same incarnation in terms of ability, although his origins do differ as explained in Endwalker (no, he was not made by the Garleans/Allagans)

The Rift is the keypoint that ties beings such as Omega and Gilgamesh to their other appearance across games. Albiet, not all of them apply it in the same way due to a change of style and direction in said games. The important thing to note is that XIV Omega is roughly the same in terms of Abilities, and with objectively higher AP than before. (and Omega's page is missing a lot of things anyways, go figure). The only difference being that Omega has a Humanoid form that he transforms from his machine counterpart, which... doesn't really have a page either, sadly. Typical scaling says on par with Post-game Stormblood WoL; and that's that for AP as far as we currently know.

I also want to note here that the Omega Protocol is not considered canon to XIV's continuity specifically. In essence, Ultimates are relived, exaggerated tales that WoL re-experiences, much like the Extreme series of raids (which is why all of them are called The Minstrel's Ballad: INSERT TRIAL HERE). Their normal counterparts are usually calc'd and considered over those. That could change though, maybe.

Gilgamesh also has multiple, separate iterations of himself that aren't tied to his reoccurring "from the rift" incarnation. FF9 and FF11's Gilgamesh come to mind distinctly.

Interesting but you still can't use a character that doesn't have a profile

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Interesting but you still can't use a character that doesn't have a profile

Omega technically has two keys for FFXIV, like I had suggested above. His XIV iteration is also on his page, so. The only thing that is missing is his Humanoid key (in which he splits into two humanoid entities)

Like I had implied, he has two forms: One where he's a machine, and another where's he's Humanoid; of which are two separate fights in the game (O11S and O12S). For simplicity's we are using his Machine key, which is just base Omega but amped up to Post-Stormblood Scaling (2-A), and higher than an Improved Neo Exdeath + An incomplete data Midgardsormr (the king of the the draconic brood, and also the father of this little fella) SBA for the rest.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Omega technically has two keys for FFXIV, like I had suggested above. His XIV iteration is also on his page, so. The only thing that is missing is his Humanoid key (in which he splits into two humanoid entities)

Like I had implied, he has two forms: One where he's a machine, and another where's he's Humanoid; of which are two separate fights in the game (O11S and O12S). For simplicity's we are using his Machine key, which is just base Omega but amped up to Post-Stormblood Scaling (2-A), and higher than an Improved Exdeath + Midgardsormr. SBA for the rest.

The image being there is a mistake, and he doesn't have any FFXIV keys.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

The image being there is a mistake, and he doesn't have any FFXIV keys.

Address this in the discussion thread and not here please. If you want you can create a CRT.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Address this in the discussion thread and not here please. If you want you can create a CRT.

... why would I address something about this matchup in the discussion thread? A CRT doesn't need to be made to remove an image. You could just make the profile for FFXIV's Omega, or post this matchup in Fun and Games

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

... why would I address something about this matchup in the discussion thread? A CRT doesn't need to be made to remove an image. You could just make the profile for FFXIV's Omega, or post this matchup in Fun and Games

I'm sorry but I don't understand the disconnect here. Most of your concerns are have been about Omega and his profile.

The image being there is a mistake, and he doesn't have any FFXIV keys.

And so I can be enlightened by this reasoning; because it's going to confuse both people here and is already confusing me. Take it to a different thread.

 

[Hypertornado099]

I'm sorry but I don't understand the disconnect here. Most of your concerns are have been about Omega and his profile.

And so I can be enlightened by this reasoning; because it's going to confuse both people here and is already confusing me. Take it to a different thread.

And I am talking about it here because you're using a character without a profile in this VS thread. If you don't want to change it back to FFV's Omega, then it can't be used

 

[Armorchompy]

Was asked to comment. The profile as is does imply XIV Omega is part of the deal, so, Hypertornado, while you may or may not be right that they're different, that's not something you can really push for here.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Was asked to comment. The profile as is does imply XIV Omega is part of the deal, so, Hypertornado, while you may or may not be right that they're different, that's not something you can really push for here.

I think the image on his profile is just a mistake lol, if they were accepted as being the same the profile would have XIV's abilities

 

[Armorchompy]

Hold on, Glassman revised the profile, I'll tag him and he'll probably know

@Theglassman12

 

[Hypertornado099]

It was this guy who added the ff14 image and he hasn't been active since april 2018

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

I would greatly appreciate it if this discussion could be relocated to another thread or conducted privately. Hyper's concerns align more with the scope of general discussion or content revision (this includes profile alteration/ editing).

I'll address this issue in the appropriate channels dedicated to those specific topics, rather than here in a versus match thread. I'd prefer not to reiterate or digress from the original reason I created this thread in the first place: Hecatia vs. Omega.

 

[Armorchompy]

update: he doesn't know

yeah i think a thread'd be better

 

[Armorchompy]

Although he did tell me to try to tag @Shmooply and @ZetaMarishi, so hopefully they can resolve this

I'll address this issue in the appropriate channels dedicated to those specific topics, rather than here in a versus match thread. I'd prefer not to reiterate or digress from the original reason I created this thread in the first place: Hecatia vs. Omega.

I understand your frustration but I feel like the match can't really go on if we don't know if Omega has the XIV stuff, that's pretty pertinent to it.

 

[ZetaMarishi]

FF14 and FF5 Omegas are unconnected to each other straight up. They should have different pages, even if for the most part FF14's should have most of what FF5's has and more.

 

[Armorchompy]

Got it, thanks. Ideally the pic should be removed, then.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

If that's the case, then other iterations of Omega should be removed as well except for Mk. II. There is no specification beyond his FF5 Key.

 

[Zer00Negativo]

I don't know what you're talking about, Omega from XIV created several villains and characters from the franchise (including Exdeath) from places he visited, so yes, Omega from FFV is the same as all the games.

And omega also has conceptual manipulation for having created chaos, which is said to be a concept in itself, just like fighting Serah and Noel from FXIII who have type 1 conceptual destruction

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

I don't know what you're talking about, Omega from XIV created several villains and characters from the franchise (including Exdeath) from places he visited, so yes, Omega from FFV is the same as all the games.

And omega also has conceptual manipulation for having created chaos, which is said to be a concept in itself, just like fighting Serah and Noel from FXIII who have type 1 conceptual destruction

The statements here are mostly true, especially the concept manip feats.

The story-related origins differ due to stylistic/narrative choices, but Omega has indeed crossed the Interdimensional Rift like in his other appearances. There’s also logs/statements of him having visited Kefka’s world (FF6) that backs it up— as well as creating an improved version of Chaos and Exdeath with footage. We also know that XIV Omega possesses ‘battle data’ from across the classic era of final fantasy titles— including data of his FF5 counterpart. He also sources data from FF5 (Bartz' World) in the form of manifesting settings from that title, alongside FF6's settings (the entirety of Sigmascape, which outright states "World of Ruin", and implies he has traveled to it in some cutscenes) within the Rift.

The abilities are the same, but to a much greater extent (it’s still 2-A tiering if we’re going off of Stormblood scaling here). The circumstances and origins, not so much.

Despite all of this, It’s also consistently hinted that the several Omega(s) are the same entity/ shades of the original Omega (FFV) across the games he appears in, and possess the ability to travel the Rift to some extent. In XIV in particular, Omega was specifically created by the Omnicron to destroy Midgardsormr during the war between Machine & Dragon— who’s myth also gave rise to the primal Shinryu in Stormblood at Baelsar’s Wall. He still possesses all of FFV Omega's abilities, which is essentially a blueprint for other iterations across the series; with the exception of a lone few (Omega Weapon from FF6).

(Tangentially relevant due to both Shinryu and Omega appearing together in the games they show up in— and they have been the antithesis to one another since FFV. All of their appearances are as twin Super Bosses. Shinryu is a similar case as well, although later on he's more relevant in the story and quite possibly scales higher.)

From what I’ve gleaned, the only noticable differences/additions for XIV Omega are:

EE, Environmental Destruction, Pocket Reality Manipulation, and Concept Manipulation (types 1, 2, and 3), BFR (Another layer of it separate from Encircle, alongside nearly killing the WoL on two separate outside of raid instances + being able to BFR people to the void. The first requiring Midgardsormr's Intervention, then Alpha's.), and Creation within the Rift— alongside Data Manipulation, Info Analysis, and Barrier Creation (with Omeguard, which applies to base Omega), Flight (suggested in FF5, seen in FF14), Black Hole Creation (After the Years via Black Hole), Fire Manipulation (After the Years via Meltdown) and several of the Raid Mechanics from O11N that are subjectively already listed under ability, just not moveset/arsenal. The most powerful of the additions for XIV Omega would also be his stupid Adaptive Evo hax within the Rift. (I may have missed some other things)

( Edit: He also creates Alpha too, I guess. )

As for his profile, I wouldn’t be opposed to three new keys: Base (Matching Shinryu in power), O11N (Far greater in the Interdimensional Rift), and O12N (Higher than before) respectively for his XIV Iteration— it just seems like he’ll get buffed in the end. Alongside additions for other missing things from base Omega.

And for simplicity’s sake and the most logical conclusion— both Omega and Shinryu should have assumed their base forms in their first fight in Stormblood. Omega was nowhere near as strong in their first encounter (and also took place at Baelsar's Wall)— not until we see what he’s capable of within the Interdimensional Rift in XIV— since he was able to explicitly control, create, and destroy reality within the Rift and has been constantly referred to as a “Master of the Rift” in Omegascape + raid summary material/scans... in addition to being capable to traveling across shards and to the world of other games through it. BREATHES (I promise this isn't flowery language, it's actually stupid and a lot to dive into. Especially with the hundreds of hours of Endwalker dumping a treasure trove of information on Omega + an entire beast tribe questline that involves them.)

Dare I say that XIV Warrior of Light should also scale to XIV Omega for Stormblood, rather than Neo Exdeath (reason being that savage content isn't treated as canon, and Omega scales higher than him anyways. It's technically a buff higher into 2-A. ) for his Post-Stormblood key. There's a few things to consider that may have ramifications like these, and could turn into a much bigger CRT.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Got it, thanks. Ideally the pic should be removed, then.

For reasons above I disagree with this motion to remove it. The differences are trivial in context + Omega isn't in the Interdimensional Rift in this match; with most of the aforementioned feats being only accomplishable there. I can touch up on adding base feats to FFV/Interdimensional Omega in a CRT, however O11N and O12N Omega needs more input from others in the aforementioned and linked discussion threads. I cant do a CRT discussion of that scale alone.

At most, additions and more feats are likely going to be added under separate keys + being bumped higher into 2-A. And there are also three separate canon instances of Omega being featured in-game, the first of which he isn't as strong as he's shown to be in in the normal raid series. What's more ridiculous is that this arose over concerns of an image being featured on their profile that """"shouldn't be there"""" and with no other basis.

Explaining XIV lore is akin to writing a ******* essay these days, and characters like these make it even more convoluted to explain.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

It's weird seeing Hecatia barefoot in another artstyle. Her design heavily benefited from having boots in that one official manga. She should wear boots more often. Though I don't mind seeing her barefoot feet.

Unrelated but I found the canonical image of Hecatia with boots and I must say that I prefer to see her without boots rather than having her wear those crappy boots.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hecatia_Lapislazuli#/media/File%3AVFiS_Hecatia_with_boots.png

I must have confused her boots with fanart because I remember seeing Hecatia with black knee-high leather boots with belts and I must say that boots like that improve her character design by a lot. Hecatia should wear knee-high black boots more often.

Dawg what

 

[Deidalius]

Dawg what

I can defend my actions, it's not what it seems at first glance. But it would derail the thread so

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

I'm having an indescribable feeling of whiplash and possibly a stroke. **** me lmao.

 

[Deidalius]

I'm having an indescribable feeling of whiplash and possibly a stroke. **** me lmao.

Don't die. Dying is bad for your health.

 

[Hypertornado099]

I don't know what you're talking about, Omega from XIV created several villains and characters from the franchise (including Exdeath) from places he visited, so yes, Omega from FFV is the same as all the games.

And omega also has conceptual manipulation for having created chaos, which is said to be a concept in itself, just like fighting Serah and Noel from FXIII who have type 1 conceptual destruction

Can we discuss it here

Also, can someone explain what the Touhou chick does in a fight?

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Also, can someone explain what the Touhou chick does in a fight?

ZUN has consistently implied across noteable interviews that she's the strongest in the series, stating that Hecatia is "completely past the level of anyone in Gensokyo or the Lunar Capital." (great argument, I know). This would also encompass beings such as the Sages (Yukari, Kasen, ect) the Oni (Suika, Yuugi, ect), the Animal Realm Rulers, and that one girl who likes mcdonalds or something.

Omega also has experience fighting foes that fly. So the mobility/range argument hardly really matters unless I'm mistaken here. I'm pretty sure that Hecatia is outranged regardless of if she flies or not. In any event, unrestricted Hecatia with no spellcard rules to follow is something we haven't glimpsed yet, so it's mostly moot from there.

Her Danmaku is probably her best defense. It's also what she opens with, having one of the most notoriously dense danmaku patterns in the series. Atomic Ray and Wave Cannon may be able to bust through it with the AP difference, but it's debatable as to whether rockets and missiles will get through at all though without being intercepted.

She's canonically the strongest character in the franchise and the ruler of New Hell.

For the most part, she opens with Danmaku (and a lot of it), Hellfire Manip, and Explosion Manip, and Spirit Manip hax. She also throws moons at people.

She also resists type 1 Concip manip, alongside having types 8 & 9 Immortality which makes her hard to kill as is (She can only be slain in New Hell). Omega's only option may be to BFR with Encircle for an Incap, but Omega needs to be able to affect her Spirit. I'm very unsure as to whether his Lawhax magic would work due to how touhous interact under Spirit Manip; but it can be argued that it could work, maybe. Another touhou supporter may be able to elaborate on this one.

Both seem to have really strong ways at handling one another-- with Hecateia's spirit-draning danmaku, and Omega's raw AP + conceptual-targeting magic. Both are also capable of dimensional travel.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

bump