Nights upgrade 2-B-2 Nightmarish Boogaloo

[Theuser789]

Thursday, friday, and even saturday have passed and no reply, and DDM has replied in other threads in the mean time, there's already 3 staff agreeing and DDM is stalling since it has been way too long since anything, there's no need to wait even more when he doesn't want to reply, so the thread wouldn't be accepted

 

[Antvasima]

I will ask him. If he does not respond after that, this can probably be applied.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Late response, I know, but now PC has been having issues as well.

As I said above, the deal here is Night Dimension is the same size as Waking World, it's simply 2-C, and if the dream worlds within Night Dimension are the same size as Waking World, then it would be 2-B. This sca does confirm Night Dimension and the collective consciousness has their own Space-Time, which would make the feat 2-C at least. For the I have a universe to save scan, it's more so implied he's saving everything; not just a single person's dream.

Now as for the details, this sca still says Waking World and the full Night Dimension are the same size that are parallel to each other. So unless Waking World is also 2-B sized, I don't quite see Night Dimension as 2-C sized. It's never stated that Helen or Will's dreams are parallel to the Waking World. They do call them all worlds, but not parallel worlds. And those dreams are just called worlds, not like other verses where world and universe have been used interchangeably to mean the same thing. Waking World and Night Dimension each have world and universe used interchangeably like that, but not the individual dream worlds.

We do not consider Jung's Theory just because it's mentioned to scale the cast because a lot of verses are based on philosophical theories, but that doesn't mean we scale cosmologies like that. We don't make verses based on Cthulhu Mythos 1-A due to being based on Lovecraftian theories. We don't scale religious figures to verses based on said religions, and we don't scale characters based on Greek Mythology to our Greek Mythology profiles. It's not like Yu Yu Hakusho characters are Tier 3/2 via A Class demons being "on par with Titans of Greek Myth" with S Class demons being far above that. So, we shouldn't always assume each and every dream world is an entire timeline just because Jung's Theory was compared in the interview. Plus, we typically go by in game and released guidebooks instead of interviews.

And as for the word Reality, I already explained in detail that "Becoming reality" or "Becoming closer to reality" simply means coming into existence and doesn't quite equate to transforming into an entire universe. "Becoming Universe" or "Closer to Universe" make little sense as opposed to "Becoming entire realities". This is pretty common knowledge. So while Night Dimension containing Nightopia, I am seeing as an entire universe, I'm not quite seeing any of the individual dream worlds as anything beyond pocket realities. It's also hinted by the fact that the Dream Worlds colliding and Helen appearing in Will's Dream happened rather easily, where as it's taking a heavy long time for Wizemon for Nightopia to merge with Waking World.

I still prefer to here Ultima Reality commenting on the actual thread, plus most of the Admins including AKM Sama and Ultima Reality both said they're leaning more so towards 2-C sounding more reliable. But said At least 2-C, possibly 2-B seems okay. But overall, I still think 2-C is the more reliable end like the others have said.

 

[Theuser789]

DDM, you brought literally nothing new to the table, at all, that's just ad nauseum

It's doesn't matter what is more realible for them, they still agree with possibly, there's a reason it's possibly, and not straight up 2-B

Let's stop with this stonewalling pls, this has gone long enough

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's not stonewalling, it's fact checking. Yelling and cussing at overworked staff members is what stonewalling is.

I'll take care of the edits, when I get back from work. As I thankfully have two days off after today's shift.

 

[Theuser789]

Regular memebers can be overworked and have problems as well, don't act as if not being a staff makes your life raibows and hapiness

So I guess you are only going to put 2-C ignoring everyone else who thought possibly was fine because you are the only one who can "fact check", even thought it took weaks and you have been posting on plenty of threads

Not trying to curse anyone, just saying what is happening

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Medeus. I agree about that staff members need to try to be critical thinkers regarding these sorts of issues.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, staff members recurrently have to take care of a lot of different threads at once in addition to their regular work. They genuinely do have a hard position, especially when constantly attacked for trying to do their jobs of ensuring reliable pages without exaggerated statistics.

 

[Theuser789]

Nobody said they didn't have that...

 

[Theuser789]

I'll take care of the edits, when I get back from work. As I thankfully have two days off after today's shift.

So is this going to include the possibly 2-B which was accepted by most? They liking 2-C more doesn't change that, when in fact it helps it because it's just "possibly"

 

[ShakeResounding]

If "At least 2-C, possibly 2-B" is what people accepted as a whole, even if they stated they were leaning towards one, then that's what should be applied. Three admins agree (even if hesitantly) with the proposition, so the proposition is what should be accepted. To ignore a large chunk of it and adding only part of it will be a sign of immaturity or ignoring our arguments completely.

Also, not to be rude here because I wanna be as sympathetic as possible, but overworking yourself and then going into a thread where you continue to overwork yourself and then claim we're stonewalling by making you respond while overworked seems... Wrong. We've waited days for a response from you, and while I'm sympathetic that you're being overworked, pointing fingers at us and saying we're stonewalling after we've waited makes you seem immature.

 

[Infiniverse_of_Oblivion]

>Posting that same scan over and over again in hopes that people forget that was already addressed doesn't make your argument stronger. Again, their world gets recreated in each of their dreams.

>If each dream recreates a Low 2-C universe, then the Night Dimension is 2-B.
Good thing there's more straightforward evidence for 2-B than just mentioning Jung.Although Yung does help substantiate said claims.


>Also interviews are WoG, they are a valid source of information unless the material itself contradicts it. That is a red herring that ignores the context.

>The dream worlds are not pocket realities, they're each a recreation of the Waking World. If 2-C is more reliable then surely you would be able to refute the arguments for 2-B without ad-nauseam and strawmanning the arguments used.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Four administrators seem ok with 2-C possibility 2-B. Can the changes be made?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Attack Potency: At least Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level (Defeated Wizeman multiple times, who created the Dream World, which visibly contains a multitude of star systems and was stated to be an entire parallel universe next to the Waking World and have its own flow of time. It also contains countless worlds known as "Dream Worlds" for each and ever living human in Waking World formed from their unconscious. Each dream world has shown starry skies, nebulae, and galaxies. It was stated that Wizeman was going to destroy the Dream World, when the latter is made up of many different visitors' own separate worlds. Wizeman also has complete control over, and created, Nightmare, a dimension of void where people with bad dreams end up in, and can manipulate, bend, and reshape it as he pleases)

@TheUser this is my final proposal. It's not because we "Like 2-C better" nor is my input any more valuable than any other Admin's, but it's best to hear from people who've actually been reading every post and watching every video as opposed to ones who simply "Skimmed" through the thread. Plus, it's generally agreed that 2-C seemed far more reliable, concrete, strait-forward, ect.

@Shake No one's ignoring what others have said, just that 2-C was much more believable. A thumbs up is far more valuable than a "Meh". Also, don't debate with me about maturity or ignorance when patience is a virtue. I frequently have had to wait for months or even years for other staff members to respond to certain threads, so a few days of a daily isn't really all that bad. Especially if we get like 30+ notifications each and every time I either come back from work, or get out of bed. And some of it includes trolls uploading **** on our walls or giving us Death Threats. Plus there's other commons stuff such as people asking me for favors IRL, and computer issues of Anti-Virus requiring a bunch of restarts. Also, it wasn't you it was addressed to, but TheUser and maybe a few others who haven't commented quite as recently. He's kind of the one who started with the bold accusations and persisted throughout both threads.

@Infiniverse, I never hoped for you to forget anything at all period. Only that people constantly ignore the most important detail. And that 90% of the addresses against it weren't spot on or too assumptive. It's not stated that each individual Dream Worlds mirrors the Waking World, only that they are each born from the unconscious of each person, or that they "Become reality" which said definition is already addressed. Interviews aren't always word of God given "Death of the Author" is a thing. Official releases and published works whether guidebooks or in game is the true word of god.

Anyway, I already said possibly 2-B was fine, but not for the reasons given by others. The top paragraph says it all.

 

[GoldenBoyBlue]

No DDM, if you're talking about what people generally agreed on it's a 2-B rating, whether as a possibly or outright. It's you who has dragged this topic out far longer than it needed to be.

You act like waiting months or years for a topic to conclude is supposed to be a good thing. While a revision shouldn't be rushed to being implemented, for the sake of keeping our profiles reliable and up to date, they should not take an unreasonably long time to finish either, especially when it's one person who refuses to let the revision go through even though he's not bringing any new arguments to the table that haven't already been addressed. Also some random trolls posted garbage on your wall, big deal. They just do it to get a reaction out of people, ban them and move on. Stop trying to make it all about you, you don't know what other people have to deal with in their lives.

"Nightopians are carefree, happy inhabitants of Nightopia. They're born every time balls of light (called Ideya) collide. The sole reason for their existence is to have fun. Because they are incapable of doing anything else, they have no need to work together or to cooperate towards a common goal. As a result, they have no leader, and no language. What they do have, is the ability to see the consciousness of each visitor (dreamers from our world), through Ideya. When visitors arrive, the Nightopians can see their consciousness and recreate the happy world that is hidden deep inside. They're why Nightopians, who don't have the capacity for intelligent thought, can sing, dance, and even go fishing."

^It recreates the world they're living in. The interviews are done with the people who developed the game itself, and yes "Death of the Author" is a thing meaning if the actual work contradicts what the author is saying the work itself holds precedence over it. But there's no contradiction here, so mentioning this is a red herring.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That was all a strawman right there. And no, I didn't act like it was a good thing, I simply said waiting a few days is not something to attack people over. I has nothing to do with me, it's on the wiki and many other things. I know full well what other people have in there lives outside the wiki. All I did was fact check left and right, and people just threw rocks at me just begging for me to upgrade the verse based on incomplete and/or too vague premises.

That quote still doesn't mean they create universes, Walt Disney "Created his happy world" when he built Disney World, that doesn't make it a planet or Universe. Nothing new has been addressed and I already made the proposals. It's how the wiki's always been, if the guidelines do not line up with the balance of our system, it won't go through regardless of how many people demand it or how hard people push for it. A solid 2-B rating was rejected and 2-C is what's considered more reliable amongst the staff.

The Interview was done with one person, not the whole company.

I will edit this and simply close the thread since the proposals were made. It's done.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a note that I am perfectly fine with Medeus' conclusion, and that I appreciate his help.