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Newer Newer SU continuation revision

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Actually Dargoo, maybe we should table that until tomorrow? It's getting pretty late for everyone, and I've noticed a lot of people saying they were going to bed in the thread. I'd rather have most people here to discuss it one last time before we wrap it up, (if we are). Plus tomorrow's a weekend so I expect more people to be on. Plus PLUS that would give us more time to compile everything.

What do I know though, I'm just a lowly blue name. What do the rest of ya'll think, should we wait on this or continue forward?
 
CinnabarManx421 said:
Actually Dargoo, maybe we should table that until tomorrow? It's getting pretty late for everyone, and I've noticed a lot of people saying they were going to bed in the thread. I'd rather have most people here to discuss it one last time before we wrap it up, (if we are). Plus tomorrow's a weekend so I expect more people to be on. Plus PLUS that would give us more time to compile everything.
What do I know though, I'm just a lowly blue name. What do the rest of ya'll think, should we wait on this or continue forward?
Click to expand...
I'm so sorry I didn't see this.

I'll remove my summary then paste it back here tomorrow.
 
Actually tbh we can probably do a GBE for the cluster using different Gems as a basis seeing as Peridot stated it would be far bigger than the Earth
 
@Weekly I would be fine with that.

I'll repost the summary tomorrow though, I think we all need a break. Plus I want to post the next brackets tonight.
 
Don't think GBE for the Cluster wouodn't work, with no exact size it would be used Earth's size as low-end, and since gemstones generally possesses inferior density than Earth's it would yield less than 5-B. I think "At least 5-B" could work.
 
I think with "much larger than the earth" it's a safe assumption that it's at least twice as large as the earth when fully formed.
 
The real cal howard said:
Lapis also uses that water against Malachite, holding them down with all the weight of the world's oceans.
Click to expand...
Malachite is High 6-A cause Lapis in the first place


Is like saying Lapis scales to Lapis
 
In the matter of Lapis

She should have a Variable Tier maybe

Scaling from the CG (Who may be 7-A) with her regular attacks (Even with small amounts of Water she overpowered Garnet, One-shotted Jasper, Created Clones that matched the Gems) to High 6-A (She was able to manipulate the ocean)
 
I think he meant that Malachite was an example of Lapis using the entire ocean at once offensively, which is actually a pretty good point. I always thought this feat was pretty weird, since technically, Lapis was Malachite when it happened, so shouldn't this be a feat for Malachite and not for Lapis? I don't know.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
I think he meant that Malachite was an example of Lapis using the entire ocean at once offensively, which is actually a pretty good point. I always thought this feat was pretty weird, since technically, Lapis was Malachite when it happened, so shouldn't this be a feat for Malachite and not for Lapis? I don't know.
Click to expand...
Technically, yes

While she was the one that forced Jasper to do it, it was Malachite's power that forced herself in the ocean
 
Problem with Malachite is that Lapis said that that yes was using the Earth's oceans to hold her down, not all the oceans at the same time nor place (is not possible).
 
It's tomorrow.

Summarization

  • First and foremost - Mass Energy has been rejected in regards to AP for Steven Universe. Calcs that use it for ratings should be removed from pages; and if this changes the rating of the character in question, see the following points.
  • Garnet do not possesses Memory Manipulation since she is unable to alter nor erase memories; her granting Future Visions do not qualify as Mind Manipulation since she do not control how it works once being moved to Steven.
  • Garnet's surviving in the Sun's core is no longer usable as Kepekley already pointed out, and yet the statement refer to the temperature of the sun's core rather than the sun's core itself (no pressure involved), so value is not High 6-C even if is applicable.
  • Every gem at the same level than Opal or below do not scale to the Warship. That said, it was apparently calced at 16 Gigatons for Opal, and should scale to the other stronger fusions.
  • Many supporting Tier 6 feats for the base Gems have been debunked, and Tier 7 is being considered as more consistent for them. Here is a case-by-case of each calc/feat.
  • They have a large number of supporting lower-end Tier 7 feats such as the Mountain bust.
    • Garnet's Living Island Statement - Happened off-screens and we don't know how, plus it took all three of them, plus we don't know how powerful the island even is, since "tectonic emergency" lacks context. Will note myself that some of the most notable island busting feats actually come out in 7-A/High 7-A.
    • Sardonyx Hammer Time - Discounted as the show depicted the decompression as the force driving the rubies out of the chamber.
    • Rubies get hit by the Roaming Eye: 6 Gigatons is only the full kinetic energy generated by the ship, you need to take into effect the AoE that hit the Rubies, which reduces the feat to only 200 Megatons.
    • Gem Drill Durability - It was decided KE was not applicable for the feat. It was also added that The Cluster was not at the center of the Earth but rather somewhere in the mantle.
    • Saphhire's Blizzard - Was calced to be High 7-C at best, pending approval.
    • Snow Beast Blizzard - Calced to be near baseline 7-A at best, pending approval.
    • Tractor Beam/Gravity Whatever/Laser - Debated to a near standstill for God knows how long. I (probably falsely) assume we have reached a consensus that it only covered the area of Beach City, which was calced at 7-A and approved.
  • New Suggested Ratings (In no particular order, not including Steven, see below)
    • Varies - Lapis (See below)
    • Lower Tiered Gems - Gems that aren't meant for combat, judge by their own feats if they don't scale. Peridot w/out tech, Pebbles, Beach City Homies, Probably Lars
    • 7-A - Ruby, Sapphire, Pearl, Amethyst, Unfused Topaz (Probably) Peridot with her tech, Lapis' durability(?), Most weaker corrupt gems, everyone else who scales.
    • 7-A+ - Jasper, Garnet, Bismuth, Smokey, Stevonnie, Topaz fusion, (Probably [AKA Dargoo's Opinion]) Rainbow 2.0, Most stronger corrupt gems, those who scale
    • 6-C - Opal, Sugilite, Sardonyx, (Probably) Sunstone, Ruby fusion, Rose (Restrained Pink), Hessonite w/out White Light(?), Most powerful gem weapons (Warships, Cannons, Lars' Ship), Strongest corrupt gems, those who scale
    • High 6-A - Cap of Lapis' tier, White Light, Malachite, Alexandrite, The Diamond Ships, The Diamonds, Obsidian, Partially formed Cluster
    • ??? - New tier for the fully-formed Cluster since ME isn't applicable anymore, needs to be discussed.
  • Lapis Lazuli
    • It was suggested her tower feat was an outlier or environmental destruction, both of which were rejected.
    • It was accepted that not all her water based attacks have the same AP, and thus she should have a Variable AP that depends on her access to water and emotional state.
    • High 6-A was agreed to still scale to Malachite, Alexandrite, The Diamond Ships, The Diamonds, Obsidian, and the Partially Formed Cluster.
    • The ocean falling on Steven was debunked (at least for the entire ocean or even a fraction of it), as most of the tower already fell, water dispersing in the air moving at entry speeds, the water significantly slowing down when it hit the ground, and the highest levels of water not hitting Steven.
  • Scaling
    • Still largely being discussed.
    • Aquamarine doesn't scale to Alexandrite.
    • As stated above not everyone who got slapped around by Lapis' water is High 6-A.
    • The Diamond Ships don't scale to anything but the strongest fusions and zhe diamonds.
    • Pink Steven is = to the Diamonds however Regular Steven doesn't scale to them as of now. However the latter point is still contested by Weekly.
    • Steven's Shield and Bubble are a mess.
I tried.

Stuff that needs discussion

  • Cluster's new tier now that ME isn't applicable.
  • Scaling
  • Steven "I like to screw over powerscaling" Universe
 
  • Checking the Rubies' calc
  • Pearl and Amethyst (regardless of the Rubies calc) still 7-A via the Snow Beast (And Pearl casually damaging Peridot 84 megatons Pod)
  • Instead of 7-A+, it should be "At least 7-A" (No calc it's 7-A+ currently) for Garnet and Jasper and others
  • Yes, fusions are 16 GT (Scaling from 1 cannon being 4 GT)
 
AidenBrooks999 said:
  • Instead of 7-A+, it should be "At least 7-A" (No calc it's 7-A+ currently) for Garnet and Jasper and others
Click to expand...
TBH they should be 7-A+ via scaling far ahead of people who are bordering on 7-A+ even if no calc pops up.
 
Eh, alright, although realize that functionally it's the same thing.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Eh, alright, although realize that functionally it's the same thing.
Click to expand...
They separate in the Tiering System, that's enough for me

(Also, a likely 25% increase in the ruby calc lol)
 
Suggestion:

To simpify Gem pages, how about we remove all the standard Gem powers from each page and replace them with "Gem Physiology", with the power linking to Weekly's (arguably) well contructed explaination blog? Or better yet, make a new page?

I feel like the vast majority of the bulk in powers/abilities on Gems is just standard stuff that should just link to one page, and doing this can make it easier to identify unique abilities for each Gem.
 
There is stuff in Weekly's blog that isn't even on the pages yet it is accepted, like pretty much all of the Resistances for example, which just shows how outdated SU pages are.
 
So.. Remove basically all their abilities and just put "Gem Physiology"?

I mean, its not bad... But it would leave a hug hole in my heart- I mean in the page
 
Then linking to the blog with "Gem Physiology" solves the issue just fine, since everything on a need to know basis is there.
 
AidenBrooks999 said:
So.. Remove basically all their abilities and just put "Gem Physiology"?
I mean, its not bad... But it would leave a hug hole in my heart- I mean in the page
Click to expand...
All the abilities that are standard to every Gem.

Most gems tend to have a lot of unique abilities.
 
The only abilities that Era 2 Gems are missing are unique powers and weapon creation, the first of which isn't really a standard for all gems.
 
What I meant if that in the "Power and Abilities" section they have a ton of Gem-General abilities, while their unique abilities are just a few

Leaving the profile empty in comparison (Also, at least for me, it's easier to see all abilities instead of need to check "Gem Physiology" to see what it means)


Also also, why they all have Self-Sustainance AND the "no need for oxygen"? Isn't that the same?
 
Dargoo Faust said:
The only abilities that Era 2 Gems are missing are unique powers and weapon creation, the first of which isn't really a standard for all gems.
Click to expand...
Peridot does have a "weapon", which is her Magnetic Manipulation, just like how Lapis's "weapon" is water manip.

Era 2 gems only really lack shapeshifting apparently.
 
We can just put "Gem Physiology (However, lacks the abilitity to Shapeshift)" on Peridot.
 
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