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Sanji has Haki, right?
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Natsu vs. Sanji
- Thread starter SuperKamiNappa
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@shadow
According to their profiles Sanji is a h2h master, Natsu however is only an expert.
Sanji not using his hands is only a problem if he cannot use his legs and, correct me if i'm wrong, Sanji always fights people that use their hands too; so thanks to Sanji's experience Natsu using his hands isn't an issue.
Both Sanji and Natsu are resistant to fire.
Who that guy with the sythes? He was basically fodder with a name (that IIRC he didn't give) ie he was too weak to bother using magic on; so comparing sythe guy to people on Natsu's level dosn't refute my point.
@fingers
Yes he does, both armament and observation haki.
According to their profiles Sanji is a h2h master, Natsu however is only an expert.
Sanji not using his hands is only a problem if he cannot use his legs and, correct me if i'm wrong, Sanji always fights people that use their hands too; so thanks to Sanji's experience Natsu using his hands isn't an issue.
Both Sanji and Natsu are resistant to fire.
Who that guy with the sythes? He was basically fodder with a name (that IIRC he didn't give) ie he was too weak to bother using magic on; so comparing sythe guy to people on Natsu's level dosn't refute my point.
@fingers
Yes he does, both armament and observation haki.
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You realize that Natsu was losing the fight to Jakob because he couldn't go all out in the guild hall without destroying it, right? They even said as much right after Makarov threw Natsu after Jakob. Once he was clear to go all out, he straight up one-shotted Jakob. Jakob had the edge in the guild hall because he could use his magic without limits and Natsu had to hold back. In the beginning of the fight, before Jakob used his "stealth" magic, Natsu and Jakob were trading blows, so to say he was throwing him around with ease without magic is inaccurate.
Sanji is resistant to fire, yes. Natsu on the other hand is basically immune to fire, to a degree (no pun intended :3) Not to mention that Sanji's never shown resistance to fire at the level which Natsu can output (melting a marble statue from hundreds of meters away simply by powering up, vaporizing an entire lake when defeating Jakob). Natsu's fire attacks can hurt Sanji, while Sanji's Diable Jambe technique is pretty useless against Natsu.
Haki seems like it would be the deciding factor in this fight for Sanji, if anything. Armament Haki can help protect him from Natsu's magic, and Observation Haki would enable him to predict his moves and avoid them.
The real question becomes if Sanji can withstand Natsu's heat long enough to take him down or not, from where I see it. If both are close to equal in AP and speed is equalized, then in a straight fight Sanji has the advantage at first because of Precog. But he may not be able to withstand the heat of Natsu's magic long enough to get the job done, even with Haki.
Sanji is resistant to fire, yes. Natsu on the other hand is basically immune to fire, to a degree (no pun intended :3) Not to mention that Sanji's never shown resistance to fire at the level which Natsu can output (melting a marble statue from hundreds of meters away simply by powering up, vaporizing an entire lake when defeating Jakob). Natsu's fire attacks can hurt Sanji, while Sanji's Diable Jambe technique is pretty useless against Natsu.
Haki seems like it would be the deciding factor in this fight for Sanji, if anything. Armament Haki can help protect him from Natsu's magic, and Observation Haki would enable him to predict his moves and avoid them.
The real question becomes if Sanji can withstand Natsu's heat long enough to take him down or not, from where I see it. If both are close to equal in AP and speed is equalized, then in a straight fight Sanji has the advantage at first because of Precog. But he may not be able to withstand the heat of Natsu's magic long enough to get the job done, even with Haki.
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@delta Sanji's resistance on fire is limited in confront to Natsu who is almost immune (plus consuming flame to be more powerful) with exception of another type of slayer like God slayer since he can't absorb those flames without using up all of his MP.
Another thing Sanjiis being only likely with Natsu being at least mountain lvl which gives him a certain AP advantage as well. So, I guess something to consider is can Sanji do same damage without using fire as when he uses fire since he wouldn't use fire anymore once he sees Natsu won't be damaged by it.
And come an don't go saying using hands is a disadvantage lol it may not be big of advantage against Sanji but it isn't disadvantage ethier not to mention Natsu can use his entire body to attack like fire dragon sword horn.
And then there is range advantage since he won't be using fire on Natsu while Natsu can do it even with smaller damage than usual.
EDIT: I just looked and Sanji's strongest attack are fire based so yeah Natsu get's the advantage there as well.
Another thing Sanjiis being only likely with Natsu being at least mountain lvl which gives him a certain AP advantage as well. So, I guess something to consider is can Sanji do same damage without using fire as when he uses fire since he wouldn't use fire anymore once he sees Natsu won't be damaged by it.
And come an don't go saying using hands is a disadvantage lol it may not be big of advantage against Sanji but it isn't disadvantage ethier not to mention Natsu can use his entire body to attack like fire dragon sword horn.
And then there is range advantage since he won't be using fire on Natsu while Natsu can do it even with smaller damage than usual.
EDIT: I just looked and Sanji's strongest attack are fire based so yeah Natsu get's the advantage there as well.
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Yes but that is irrelivent to my point about h2h skill; even though they were trading blows Jacob had a clear skill advantage. That fight also shows a lack of strategic thinking on Natsu's part, since why didn't he just smash Jacob out of guild hall and then one shot him with an fdkm attack.
I'm aware Natsu has an AP advantage, it was already mentioned earlyer. I'm also aware that Sanji is less resistant to fire and Natsu might aswell be fire proof from Sanji's perspective; but ,in my opinion, Sanji's precog and superiour h2h skill (dispite him choosing to not to use his arms) means Natsu will have a hard time making use of his superiour AP and range advantage and net Sanji the win.
I'm aware Natsu has an AP advantage, it was already mentioned earlyer. I'm also aware that Sanji is less resistant to fire and Natsu might aswell be fire proof from Sanji's perspective; but ,in my opinion, Sanji's precog and superiour h2h skill (dispite him choosing to not to use his arms) means Natsu will have a hard time making use of his superiour AP and range advantage and net Sanji the win.
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Like I said, he was worried about destroying the guild. Even when Makarov did that exact same thing, Natsu yelled at him for destroying it. Smashing him out of the guild probably would have required Natsu to either tear down a wall in the process or use one of his more destructive spells.
Reviewing the chapters of that fight, I think its argueable whether Jakob had a "clear" advantage or not in hand to hand alone. He was using stealth a lot to land blows and get the pins. Also, the fact that Natsu continued to worry about the guild hall rather than the fight itself may indicate that he didn't really feel all that threatened by Jakob to begin with.
Also it was kind of a rediculous scene, but Natsu pretty quickly caught on to Jakob's weakness regarding women, and used that to his advantage. I'd hardly say that means he was unable to adapt, as silly as that scene was o.o
It's actually kind of irrelevant whether or not Natsu had a disadvantage against Jakob in pure hand-to-hand anyway. Jakob could simply have just been more experienced than Natsu in that regard, rather than Natsu somehow struggling because he had a "disciplined" fighting style. Considering Natsu is capable of coming up with strategies to beat mages who could cancel magic, control his fire, use magic which erases existences, use fire that he can't eat, control people by using voodoo, make people explode by touching them, and absorb souls by touching people, I find it hard to believe he'll suddenly have trouble adapting just because someone's a disciplined martial artist.
I agree that Sanji's haki would give him an advantage, but I think you're not giving Natsu enough credit here.
Reviewing the chapters of that fight, I think its argueable whether Jakob had a "clear" advantage or not in hand to hand alone. He was using stealth a lot to land blows and get the pins. Also, the fact that Natsu continued to worry about the guild hall rather than the fight itself may indicate that he didn't really feel all that threatened by Jakob to begin with.
Also it was kind of a rediculous scene, but Natsu pretty quickly caught on to Jakob's weakness regarding women, and used that to his advantage. I'd hardly say that means he was unable to adapt, as silly as that scene was o.o
It's actually kind of irrelevant whether or not Natsu had a disadvantage against Jakob in pure hand-to-hand anyway. Jakob could simply have just been more experienced than Natsu in that regard, rather than Natsu somehow struggling because he had a "disciplined" fighting style. Considering Natsu is capable of coming up with strategies to beat mages who could cancel magic, control his fire, use magic which erases existences, use fire that he can't eat, control people by using voodoo, make people explode by touching them, and absorb souls by touching people, I find it hard to believe he'll suddenly have trouble adapting just because someone's a disciplined martial artist.
I agree that Sanji's haki would give him an advantage, but I think you're not giving Natsu enough credit here.
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Natsu is a hypocrite then since he has punched holes in the halls walls at least once and IIRC the door was open. He had FDKM at his disposal so why would he feel threatened.
Natsu never defeated Byro (he had help from Romeo and Byro was verbally convinced to leave) or Totomaru (toto was beaten by Gray and Elfman, all natsu did was overpower his pyrokinesis which isn't a stratagy). Gray blocked that with his asspull resistance to curses and Natsu was following Gray's plan anyway. That was an asspull and Zancrow was PIS'ed (he literally got up and walked off leaving the badly injured Natsu and Mackarov alive before Wendy even arrived).Lucy and/or Happy pointed Kain and Franmalths weaknesses to him. I'll give you that one but if Wendy hadn't healed him Natsu would have lost to Jackal anyway.
I might not be giving him enough credit but he doesn't exactly deserve much.
Natsu never defeated Byro (he had help from Romeo and Byro was verbally convinced to leave) or Totomaru (toto was beaten by Gray and Elfman, all natsu did was overpower his pyrokinesis which isn't a stratagy). Gray blocked that with his asspull resistance to curses and Natsu was following Gray's plan anyway. That was an asspull and Zancrow was PIS'ed (he literally got up and walked off leaving the badly injured Natsu and Mackarov alive before Wendy even arrived).Lucy and/or Happy pointed Kain and Franmalths weaknesses to him. I'll give you that one but if Wendy hadn't healed him Natsu would have lost to Jackal anyway.
I might not be giving him enough credit but he doesn't exactly deserve much.
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Lol "the clown" you mean the better and more realistic character right? Not Natsu who pulls a power up out of his ass whenever he's losing, let's not equate power level of character to quality of characters or quality of series, also Irene is the worst villain I have ever seen you should probably change that name/picKnight of Irene said:
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Avoid the character bashing please. That helps no one and only makes things worse by potentially leading to thread derailment.
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I was referring to Yuka actually, since Yuka's waves cancel out magic, but Natsu was able to improvise and defeat him. There's also the Garou Executioner, but that was less Natsu being strategic and more him just being stronger. Byro is a bad example, given that he was on par with Gildarts and therefore was much stronger than Natsu at that time.
He was beating Totomaru up until the guild started moving. His "overpowering" the other's pyrokinesis required a great deal of control over his own magic to the point where Toto's magic couldn't take hold of it.
I also wasn't referring to Mard Geer's "Memento Mori" but to Zero's "Genesis Zero". He was able to escape that one on his own, abeit with Dragon Force. Although nowadays, Natsu is much stronger than he was back then with Dragon Force regardless.
To say Zancrow's defeat was an asspull is kind of rediculous, at least the part where Natsu managed to eat his flames. Zancrow's attacks were fire, so the fact that Natsu had to adjust how he ate them to succeed seems quite reasonable to me. It also set up nicely into a later plot point, when Natsu ate Laxus's lightning and was able to maintain its power. As for Zancrow being one-shot after that attack...well I'll give you that it may have been better writing to continue the fight on even grounds. But there is never an indication that Zancrow "walked away", they just never showed him on panel after the battle until he showed up later.
Against Franmalth, he came up with the way to defeat him on his own. At no point did Lucy say "pick up a rock and beat him with it, because he can't absorb its soul", Natsu was the one who thought of that. Lucy's quick thinking saved them from being absorbed, but Natsu was the one who gave them the inspiration to hold on to their souls long enough for that plan to work.
Lucy also didn't tell him about Kain's power, he actually figured that out as well once he arrived. Then later, even pinned under rocks with Lucy in grave danger, he figured out how to use Kain's magic against him to win. Lucy didn't tell him how to do that either. You should check the manga scans for these fights before assuming things.
Perhaps instead of trying to attack Natsu, you can start listing arguements as to why Sanji might be considered more adaptable? Or at least list some situations where he showed adaptability in a fight. I can list one right off the bat: He invented Diable Jambe to combat CP9's Iron Body technique, that's one good example of Sanji showing creativity and adaptability in a fight.
He was beating Totomaru up until the guild started moving. His "overpowering" the other's pyrokinesis required a great deal of control over his own magic to the point where Toto's magic couldn't take hold of it.
I also wasn't referring to Mard Geer's "Memento Mori" but to Zero's "Genesis Zero". He was able to escape that one on his own, abeit with Dragon Force. Although nowadays, Natsu is much stronger than he was back then with Dragon Force regardless.
To say Zancrow's defeat was an asspull is kind of rediculous, at least the part where Natsu managed to eat his flames. Zancrow's attacks were fire, so the fact that Natsu had to adjust how he ate them to succeed seems quite reasonable to me. It also set up nicely into a later plot point, when Natsu ate Laxus's lightning and was able to maintain its power. As for Zancrow being one-shot after that attack...well I'll give you that it may have been better writing to continue the fight on even grounds. But there is never an indication that Zancrow "walked away", they just never showed him on panel after the battle until he showed up later.
Against Franmalth, he came up with the way to defeat him on his own. At no point did Lucy say "pick up a rock and beat him with it, because he can't absorb its soul", Natsu was the one who thought of that. Lucy's quick thinking saved them from being absorbed, but Natsu was the one who gave them the inspiration to hold on to their souls long enough for that plan to work.
Lucy also didn't tell him about Kain's power, he actually figured that out as well once he arrived. Then later, even pinned under rocks with Lucy in grave danger, he figured out how to use Kain's magic against him to win. Lucy didn't tell him how to do that either. You should check the manga scans for these fights before assuming things.
Perhaps instead of trying to attack Natsu, you can start listing arguements as to why Sanji might be considered more adaptable? Or at least list some situations where he showed adaptability in a fight. I can list one right off the bat: He invented Diable Jambe to combat CP9's Iron Body technique, that's one good example of Sanji showing creativity and adaptability in a fight.
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As for Natsu being a hypocrite, I wouldn't say that. It has been shown in recent times that Natsu has begun demonstrating more control than in the beginning of the manga. This scene with Jakob is further proof of that development. He couldn't use FDKM, as that would have melted the guild upon activation.
A similar example can be seen in early One Piece. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji have all broken parts of the Merry in their antics, but in fights they looked to protect it from damage. I wouldn't say that made them hypocrites, just extremely reckless. And the Merry was even more precious to them than the guild building is to Natsu, I would say.
A similar example can be seen in early One Piece. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji have all broken parts of the Merry in their antics, but in fights they looked to protect it from damage. I wouldn't say that made them hypocrites, just extremely reckless. And the Merry was even more precious to them than the guild building is to Natsu, I would say.
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Regardless, Natsu's stratagies are focused on brute force (ie overpowering his opponent like he did with Toto and Zero) or exploiting obvious weaknesses, which anybody could do (like with Kain, Cobra and Franmalth). Additionaly Sanji knows someone who thinks alot like Natsu; so Natsu shouldn't be able to surprise him and even if he did Sanji has precog and the durability to take hits from Natsu.
Actually it isn't for 2 reasons. Reason 1: if something is inedible changing the conditions under which you try to eat it doesn't matter. An analogy that springs to mind is: 2 identical twins, the first has a full stomach and the second twin has an empty stomach, each eat 2 identical rocks and the second twin manages to digest it. The second reason is: in-verse explination of how Natsu managed to eat Zancrow's flames is debunked a few seconds after it is given by Natsu combining his magic with Zancrow's to cast 'dragon god's brilliant flame'. Given that when we next see Zancrow he shows no signs of injury and multiple other members of GH did the same thing after being beate, it is highly probable he did just walk away.
Actually it isn't for 2 reasons. Reason 1: if something is inedible changing the conditions under which you try to eat it doesn't matter. An analogy that springs to mind is: 2 identical twins, the first has a full stomach and the second twin has an empty stomach, each eat 2 identical rocks and the second twin manages to digest it. The second reason is: in-verse explination of how Natsu managed to eat Zancrow's flames is debunked a few seconds after it is given by Natsu combining his magic with Zancrow's to cast 'dragon god's brilliant flame'. Given that when we next see Zancrow he shows no signs of injury and multiple other members of GH did the same thing after being beate, it is highly probable he did just walk away.
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Sanji stomps. He has Observation Haki and FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR greater close combat skills. He has a technique, no I'm sorry, a SET of techniques that target specific body parts. he can reassemble someone's FACE to make them look like a beauty queen. He could, potentially, kick Natsu in such a way that his primary means of fighting (punching) is rendered ineffective. While that is mere speculation, Sanji also has WAAAAY more maneuverability than Natsu. While speed is one thing, Sanji has way more effective moving room; he can walk on air. Whatever Natsu throws at the guy, he'd just get the hell out the way or just tank it.
Natsu's strong, but Sanji fights guys like him on the norm. Sanji kicks his face in.
Natsu's strong, but Sanji fights guys like him on the norm. Sanji kicks his face in.
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To be quite honest Natsu would win this easily his strength and speed right now is gonna be too over the top with the verse's upgrade as a whole
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I think Natsu would have an advantage over Sanji since unlike Sanji he's perfectly willing to use his upper body in a fight.
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@joshua.foote.14,
Sanji regulary fights people of his level that use their entire bodies to fight so to Sanji, Natsu is just a standard opponent. For Natsu however Sanji is the strongest opponent he has ever fought (besides Zeref); so Sanji has a considerable experience advantage.
Sanji regulary fights people of his level that use their entire bodies to fight so to Sanji, Natsu is just a standard opponent. For Natsu however Sanji is the strongest opponent he has ever fought (besides Zeref); so Sanji has a considerable experience advantage.
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Sanji isn't a Gentle Fist master you know.GoldTempest said:
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@Nibbler3100
For now, we're using their current stats, both of them being 7-A. We're also assuming speed is equalized anyways. Until the upgrade happens, that would be the case.
@GoldTempest
Sanji's only shown that ability against two people so far, the chief on the train to Enies Lobby and Duval. Both of whom were weaker than Sanji. He's never shown that he could repeat that stunt on a character with equal durability to himself, like Natsu in this case.
@Delta3000
I would argue against Franmalth's weakness being "obvious". There are also other circumstances such as the fight against Yuka, Natsu being able to read both the fighting styles of Sting and Rogue down to their very footwork and completely dominate the two, being able to dodge Mard Geer's thorns even though he had never seen the curse before. My main point being that if Natsu did lose this fight, it wouldn't be because Sanji was more skilled/more adaptable, because Natsu has shown in many cases he can adjust to defeat a variety of different opponents. This would make sense, given that Natsu lives in a world filled with mages that all have different offensive magic and hax abilities-to survive as a guild wizard, he would have to be adaptable. Sanji could possibly be more skilled at hand to hand (a bit of a misnomer in Sanji's case lol, more like foot to foot) because that is his entire fighting style, but since Natsu has access to magic as well as hand to hand that would more than even things out on that ground alone.
The way I'm leaning towards right now is Sanji taking this fight at high-difficulty. Both fighters are adaptable and skilled in close quarters, but since Sanij has precog in the form of Haki, he has a slight edge. What would make things difficult for him is the nature of Natsu's magic. Sanji has to get in close to damage Natsu, while Natsu has ranged attacks as well as melee attacks. The heat which current Natsu emitts even passively when he powers up is well above temperatures emitted by combatants in the One Piece verse, except possibily Akainu. Sanji has shown some resistance to high temperatures, but not to anything on the level of Natsu's fire. So to attack Natsu, Sanji has to enter a range of temperature which would practically roast him alive. The only reason I think Sanji can still win this is due to his Armament Haki, which could protect him to some degree, at least while he's attacking. Natsu is stubborn and extremely hard to take down, so even with precog Sanji is likely to take some hits, especially if he's being worn down by the heat. It would still be incredibly difficult, but Sanji's Haki is what makes me think he could win after a tough fight.
For now, we're using their current stats, both of them being 7-A. We're also assuming speed is equalized anyways. Until the upgrade happens, that would be the case.
@GoldTempest
Sanji's only shown that ability against two people so far, the chief on the train to Enies Lobby and Duval. Both of whom were weaker than Sanji. He's never shown that he could repeat that stunt on a character with equal durability to himself, like Natsu in this case.
@Delta3000
I would argue against Franmalth's weakness being "obvious". There are also other circumstances such as the fight against Yuka, Natsu being able to read both the fighting styles of Sting and Rogue down to their very footwork and completely dominate the two, being able to dodge Mard Geer's thorns even though he had never seen the curse before. My main point being that if Natsu did lose this fight, it wouldn't be because Sanji was more skilled/more adaptable, because Natsu has shown in many cases he can adjust to defeat a variety of different opponents. This would make sense, given that Natsu lives in a world filled with mages that all have different offensive magic and hax abilities-to survive as a guild wizard, he would have to be adaptable. Sanji could possibly be more skilled at hand to hand (a bit of a misnomer in Sanji's case lol, more like foot to foot) because that is his entire fighting style, but since Natsu has access to magic as well as hand to hand that would more than even things out on that ground alone.
The way I'm leaning towards right now is Sanji taking this fight at high-difficulty. Both fighters are adaptable and skilled in close quarters, but since Sanij has precog in the form of Haki, he has a slight edge. What would make things difficult for him is the nature of Natsu's magic. Sanji has to get in close to damage Natsu, while Natsu has ranged attacks as well as melee attacks. The heat which current Natsu emitts even passively when he powers up is well above temperatures emitted by combatants in the One Piece verse, except possibily Akainu. Sanji has shown some resistance to high temperatures, but not to anything on the level of Natsu's fire. So to attack Natsu, Sanji has to enter a range of temperature which would practically roast him alive. The only reason I think Sanji can still win this is due to his Armament Haki, which could protect him to some degree, at least while he's attacking. Natsu is stubborn and extremely hard to take down, so even with precog Sanji is likely to take some hits, especially if he's being worn down by the heat. It would still be incredibly difficult, but Sanji's Haki is what makes me think he could win after a tough fight.
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^That's a good analysis however I believe Natsu would likely take this one due to the fact that Sanji will have a lot of trouble closing the distance with Natsu's AoE and range advantage, also coupled with the passive high temperature. And he has a slight AP advantage. And Sanji also risks to give Natsu a power boost with his flames until he figures out the trick.
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Natsu for Scarlet's reasons.
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@thatoneguy,
Franmalth's weakness is obvious in the sense that if your fighting someone that can absorb anything with a soul; the easiest and first logical conclusion basically everyone would come to is to hit him with something without a soul. Yuka's obvious (in the same sense as above) weakness, as an anti magic specialist, was non magical attacks and Natsu possibly already knew that or figured it out during Yuka's monolouge much like he did later with Franmalth. Natsu was more powerful than Sting and Rogue and therefore a bit faster; it also took him time to figure out their fighting styles, which were already very similar to Natsu's own. Sanji's style very different to Natsu's so it would take him some time to adapt too.
The OP verse also has a wide variety of powers and haxes so Sanji would also have to be adaptable to survive as a pirate; Which would balance him and Natsu out in this regard if it wern't for the fact that Sanji is more intelligent overall.
I would agree that Sanji would take this with high difficulty; i didn't think he would win easily any way as he and Natsu (non upgraded) are fairly even anyway. The main reason i think Sanji would win is, in my opinion, precog is a better ability to have in a fight than restoring ones mp from flames and passive heat emission (which, incidently didn't seam to bother Zeref, who as a fire wizard should have fire resistance much like sanji, that much, if at all.
Franmalth's weakness is obvious in the sense that if your fighting someone that can absorb anything with a soul; the easiest and first logical conclusion basically everyone would come to is to hit him with something without a soul. Yuka's obvious (in the same sense as above) weakness, as an anti magic specialist, was non magical attacks and Natsu possibly already knew that or figured it out during Yuka's monolouge much like he did later with Franmalth. Natsu was more powerful than Sting and Rogue and therefore a bit faster; it also took him time to figure out their fighting styles, which were already very similar to Natsu's own. Sanji's style very different to Natsu's so it would take him some time to adapt too.
The OP verse also has a wide variety of powers and haxes so Sanji would also have to be adaptable to survive as a pirate; Which would balance him and Natsu out in this regard if it wern't for the fact that Sanji is more intelligent overall.
I would agree that Sanji would take this with high difficulty; i didn't think he would win easily any way as he and Natsu (non upgraded) are fairly even anyway. The main reason i think Sanji would win is, in my opinion, precog is a better ability to have in a fight than restoring ones mp from flames and passive heat emission (which, incidently didn't seam to bother Zeref, who as a fire wizard should have fire resistance much like sanji, that much, if at all.
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^That.
He used Fire Magic once.
Also, IIRC, onlt Slayer have resistance to their one element
He used Fire Magic once.
Also, IIRC, onlt Slayer have resistance to their one element
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^Zeref is 400 years old wizard who knows almost every type of magic so fire isn't his element and is absolutely not having fire resistance or else every wizard that ever shown some sort of element magic would be resistant in it which is rather insane so yeah if you are using that to support your theory of why Sanji can beat Natsu it's really bad.
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Whether the heat didn't phase Zeref is irrelevant, considering that we're given so little on the nature of his abilities him been resistant really proves nothing as we don't have an accurate depiction of his strength. And even then u can't really compare Sanji's control over fire to Natsu's- they tie in most aspects but this isn't one of them.
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I'm not saying u claimed that, what I'm saying is in terms of pyrokinetic ability Natsu is superior and we can't use Zerefas a point of reference for Sanji as we barely have an idea of what he can really do. Hence my argument is there is no indication that Sanji would be resistant enough to tolerate the heat of Natsu's flames.
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@shadow,
None of those people you mentioned have been attacked with fire except Mackarov (and that was with flame god slayer magic which can burn fire dragon slayers so if he had a resistance it didn't matter) so how do you know they don't when it is likely they do; My assumption has a basis so it is hardly random.
@davidsteel1,
If Zeref doesn't have a fire resistance it would imply that his durability was all that was needed to tolerate the heat Natsu was emitting; if that is the case it would stand to reason that Sanji, with his durability in the same ball park as Zeref and fire res, would be relatively unaffected by Natsu's passive heat emission.
None of those people you mentioned have been attacked with fire except Mackarov (and that was with flame god slayer magic which can burn fire dragon slayers so if he had a resistance it didn't matter) so how do you know they don't when it is likely they do; My assumption has a basis so it is hardly random.
@davidsteel1,
If Zeref doesn't have a fire resistance it would imply that his durability was all that was needed to tolerate the heat Natsu was emitting; if that is the case it would stand to reason that Sanji, with his durability in the same ball park as Zeref and fire res, would be relatively unaffected by Natsu's passive heat emission.
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Ur kinda missing my point mate, I'm trying to say that yes even though Zeref is a fire Mage we don't know just how capable he is as one and even that aside we have too little knowledge on all of Zerefs abilities to know whether it was some unknown magic that was protecting him. And besides considering we're talking about a 400 year old death seeker I can imagine it'll take a bit more than the heat to put him down
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I'd like to remind that out of all people Jellal was damged by fire as he fought vs Natsu in ToH arc. Zeref on the other also "fought" Natsu but considering his immortality i wouldn't credit that to his "fire immunity".Also he was damaged (later instantly regenerated but still) by powers of Igneel borrowed to Natsu. Also Totomaru was defeated by Natsu. Immunity is granted only to slayers of respective element, and some rare cases but it is not 'by default'. Like Gray could tolerate low temperatures since the begining of manga, but only with DS powers he was resistant to ice based attacks of really high caliber.
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@DavidSteel1, Ok, fair enough.
@WilliamShadow, I'm assuming we are using pre revision Natsu, post revision obviously stomps.
@Czuczian11, Resistance just reduces damage, it doesn't prevent it and i never said that regular elemental wizards have a resistance as high as slayers of the same element. Prove that he was.
@WilliamShadow, I'm assuming we are using pre revision Natsu, post revision obviously stomps.
@Czuczian11, Resistance just reduces damage, it doesn't prevent it and i never said that regular elemental wizards have a resistance as high as slayers of the same element. Prove that he was.
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Until it's proven that Zeref has resistance on fire that's just assumption, since saying he has resistance on fire only cause he was effected less than someone else actually only proves that Zeref is much stronger than Natsu's random opponents, which doesn't immediately give him resistance on fire, simply he is effected less by his attacks since he is much stronger.
And of course I am talking about mountain lvl Natsu, that was simply for the sake of example
And of course I am talking about mountain lvl Natsu, that was simply for the sake of example
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Lol "the clown" you mean the better and more realistic character right? Not Natsu who pulls a power up out of his ass whenever he's losing, let's not equate power level of character to quality of characters or quality of series, also Irene is the worst villain I have ever seen you should probably change that name/picLucifonityoplpopop said:
irene is the best thing in the manga and solos your shitty one piece verse without a doubt.
2Fast4You.mach 13600 says hi
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I strongly suggest you to stop that behavior. You have been warned once.
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