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Second Origin Base Natsu
Ennies Lobby/Summit War Saga Luffy
Combat/Reaction Speed Equalized
Who wins and why?
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Natsu vs. Luffy
- Thread starter SuperKamiNappa
- Start date
- Status
Second Origin Base Natsu
Ennies Lobby/Summit War Saga Luffy
Combat/Reaction Speed Equalized
Who wins and why?
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- Thread starter
- #3
^Luffy didn't have precog back then
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Luffy has superior physical feats compared to Natsu.
Base Luffy is Small Town level (his Golden Rifle from a previous arc applied over a kiloton of force, more if it is taken into consideration that he fragmented/violently fragmented the gold surrounding his wrist), higher with gears.
The only major problem for Luffy is that, at this point, he was unable to fight with 2nd and 3rd gear for long periods of time, but if speed is equalized, he can land blows from 3rd gear, making this fight end in his favor.
Luffy wins due to superior AP with gears, resistance to blunt force, and superior range. It would be almost a stomp if speed was not equalized.
Natsu's only edge is endurance, but that's only if he forces Luffy into using his gears.
Base Luffy is Small Town level (his Golden Rifle from a previous arc applied over a kiloton of force, more if it is taken into consideration that he fragmented/violently fragmented the gold surrounding his wrist), higher with gears.
The only major problem for Luffy is that, at this point, he was unable to fight with 2nd and 3rd gear for long periods of time, but if speed is equalized, he can land blows from 3rd gear, making this fight end in his favor.
Luffy wins due to superior AP with gears, resistance to blunt force, and superior range. It would be almost a stomp if speed was not equalized.
Natsu's only edge is endurance, but that's only if he forces Luffy into using his gears.
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Natsu should win he was already Town level back in the Edolas arc.
Natsus feat: Easily defeatted to town level character's by himself.
He has the habit of learning the patters of his enemies meaning there's going to be a point where he will learn all of Luffy's patterns, in that moment the battle will easily turn to Natsus favor.
Natsu wins
Natsus feat: Easily defeatted to town level character's by himself.
He has the habit of learning the patters of his enemies meaning there's going to be a point where he will learn all of Luffy's patterns, in that moment the battle will easily turn to Natsus favor.
Natsu wins
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@Trinimac - you're going away from the actual stats listed on the profile.
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So? Im just stating the facts Natsu=Erza ir close to her back in edolas. Remeber she destroyed an island and was calced at Town level iirc, pretty much everyone from the GMG arc scales to Edolas Erza not my fault they weren't scaled correctly.CinCameron20 said:
Plus there's nothing wrong by saying facts
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... the calc is small town level, and Natsu does not scale to Erza pre time-skip especially since it was stated that Erza > Natsu during that time anyways.
As I said, you are going away from their profiles and trying to shoehorn your own speculation just to make it so that Natsu wins when nothing supports your claim that he is Town level.
As I said, you are going away from their profiles and trying to shoehorn your own speculation just to make it so that Natsu wins when nothing supports your claim that he is Town level.
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A didn't say he was stronger than Erza....i said that he was close to her in power or eqaul.CinCameron20 said:
But im not speculating Sting and Rouge among the strongest in there guild and Minerba who should be weaker pushed Erza to use second origin.
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Wouldn't Luffy get hurt by the high temperature's of Natsu's fire? When he battled Enel, his hands got fried when he touched his heated lightning spear.
Also Natsu can manipulate the form of Fire like he did against Erigor. He could change the form to a more piercing one to bypass Luffy's durability to blunt force.
Luffy can't use his gears for too long and his 2nd Gear is irrelevant here since combat/reaction speed are equalized.
Also Rob Lucci could withstand several hits from G3 Luffy before going down and his Durability is Small Town, Natsu's is a little bit higher. He can wait out G3 and put Luffy down after.
Going with Natsu 7/10
Also Natsu can manipulate the form of Fire like he did against Erigor. He could change the form to a more piercing one to bypass Luffy's durability to blunt force.
Luffy can't use his gears for too long and his 2nd Gear is irrelevant here since combat/reaction speed are equalized.
Also Rob Lucci could withstand several hits from G3 Luffy before going down and his Durability is Small Town, Natsu's is a little bit higher. He can wait out G3 and put Luffy down after.
Going with Natsu 7/10
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@Scarletfirefly
Do you not understand how much heat it takes to melt Gold? the heat from the melted gold burned Luffy's skin, and that must've been somewhere around 2,000 degrees F (around 1,100 Celcius)... he melted it in seconds, meaning it was likely hotter. Natsu's flames are depicted as being more orange, which is around 1,100 degrees celcius at the highest. The heat was only enough to burn Luffy's skin. He had no permanent damage or burn marks after the fight was concluded. Luffy has also been in the face of explosions that generated yellow flares and he got out with minimal damage.
Lucci only took one Gear 3rd hit and he dodged the rest. Re-read the fight. And as I said, Luffy's AP in Gear 2nd and 3rd are both higher than in base. When he fought Blueno, he was barely able to break through his tekkai with an attack like Rifle, but in gear 2nd, he was completely devastating him. a 3rd gear punch nearly made Lucci lose consciousness despite him putting up a defense.
Luffy wins due to higher AP, resistance to blunt force, and range--still.
Do you not understand how much heat it takes to melt Gold? the heat from the melted gold burned Luffy's skin, and that must've been somewhere around 2,000 degrees F (around 1,100 Celcius)... he melted it in seconds, meaning it was likely hotter. Natsu's flames are depicted as being more orange, which is around 1,100 degrees celcius at the highest. The heat was only enough to burn Luffy's skin. He had no permanent damage or burn marks after the fight was concluded. Luffy has also been in the face of explosions that generated yellow flares and he got out with minimal damage.
Lucci only took one Gear 3rd hit and he dodged the rest. Re-read the fight. And as I said, Luffy's AP in Gear 2nd and 3rd are both higher than in base. When he fought Blueno, he was barely able to break through his tekkai with an attack like Rifle, but in gear 2nd, he was completely devastating him. a 3rd gear punch nearly made Lucci lose consciousness despite him putting up a defense.
Luffy wins due to higher AP, resistance to blunt force, and range--still.
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I go with Natsu he was able to take on two Dragon Force users at the same time effortlessly plus he still has LFDM to add lightning to his attacks so wouldn't that combined power be hotter than his usual flames? Also his AP increases too and when 12 celestial spirits couldn't destroy eclipse he did with Fire Dragon's Sword Horning Rouge in to it He could possibly match G2 and outlast G3
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@CinCameron20
Natsu was able to evaporate sand. Sand mainly consists of Silicon Dioxide or Silica with a boiling point of 2,950 ┬░C (5,340 ┬░F). Luffy is gonna feel that.
Also as I said earlier, Natsu can change the shape of his flames into something sharp to bypass Luffy's hightened resistance to blunt attacks.
Natsu was able to evaporate sand. Sand mainly consists of Silicon Dioxide or Silica with a boiling point of 2,950 ┬░C (5,340 ┬░F). Luffy is gonna feel that.
Also as I said earlier, Natsu can change the shape of his flames into something sharp to bypass Luffy's hightened resistance to blunt attacks.
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@ScarletFirefly
You're using feats from current Natsu. Don't remember Natsu vaping sand with that lfds roar, just overpowering Max's defense. Besides, Luffy is still resistant to blunt force damage, which is more than half of what Natsu deals out (heat, plus explosion, plus punch or kick). And Rob lucci nearly blacked out from the one gear third attack he did take. If Luffy can hit him with that, he should take it. He can also hold g2 and g3 longer than Natsu has ever shown to be able to maintain lfds. Luffy takes it 8/10 due to superior strength, endurance, and durability.
You're using feats from current Natsu. Don't remember Natsu vaping sand with that lfds roar, just overpowering Max's defense. Besides, Luffy is still resistant to blunt force damage, which is more than half of what Natsu deals out (heat, plus explosion, plus punch or kick). And Rob lucci nearly blacked out from the one gear third attack he did take. If Luffy can hit him with that, he should take it. He can also hold g2 and g3 longer than Natsu has ever shown to be able to maintain lfds. Luffy takes it 8/10 due to superior strength, endurance, and durability.
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And Rob lucci nearly blacked out from the one gear third attack he did take. If Luffy can hit him with that, he should take it. He can also hold g2 and g3 longer than Natsu has ever shown to be able to maintain lfds. Luffy takes it 8/10 due to superior strength, endurance, and durability.
Yes he was damaged, but that wasn't nearly enough. He withstood several attack from G2 Luffy and kept fighting for quite a while after. If Lucci can outlast G3 Luffy with lower Durability, so can Natsu.
Besides, Luffy is still resistant to blunt force damage, which is more than half of what Natsu deals out (heat, plus explosion, plus punch or kick).
I mentioned he can change the shape of his flames into a more sharp form.
You're using feats from current Natsu. Don't remember Natsu vaping sand with that lfds roar, just overpowering Max's defense.
I know that. But that is puting it to perspective. Even if you take half of that power as Natsu's heat during his Second Origin state, which is unlikely, it's still ~500 degress higher than what Luffy encountered against Enel.
Yes he was damaged, but that wasn't nearly enough. He withstood several attack from G2 Luffy and kept fighting for quite a while after. If Lucci can outlast G3 Luffy with lower Durability, so can Natsu.
Besides, Luffy is still resistant to blunt force damage, which is more than half of what Natsu deals out (heat, plus explosion, plus punch or kick).
I mentioned he can change the shape of his flames into a more sharp form.
You're using feats from current Natsu. Don't remember Natsu vaping sand with that lfds roar, just overpowering Max's defense.
I know that. But that is puting it to perspective. Even if you take half of that power as Natsu's heat during his Second Origin state, which is unlikely, it's still ~500 degress higher than what Luffy encountered against Enel.
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So, Luffy can use Gear, but Natsu can't use his transformations?
Kind of unfair
Kind of unfair
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@Aiden - Natsu can't control Dragon force even to this day while Luffy could use Gear 2nd and 3rd ever since Enies Lobby... it is fair.
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Lightning Fire Dragon Mode is a thing.
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Luffy is literally immune to electricity, just saying.
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And LFD Post TS is Low 7-B
Blunt Force and Electricity resistance would not be enough to take it
Blunt Force and Electricity resistance would not be enough to take it
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Luffy is definitely not "literally immune" to electricity. He's made of rubber and rubber is far from a perfect insulator. As a matter of fact, a perfect insulator does not exist. All insulators become conductive when a sufficiently large voltage is applied that can tear away electrons from the atoms (dunno how it's called in english, in my language it's called the "limit voltage of an insulator")CinCameron20 said:
Rubber breaks down as an insulator and starts acting as a conductor at approximately 20kV/cm. Meaning that you'd need 20kV to go through 1 cm of rubber.
For electricity to go through Luffy's body (1.7m tall for ease of calculation), it would need 3400kV. If we calculate by surface of body, the average surface of the human body (adult men) is 1.9m^2. You'd need 7220kV to go through. Enel's lightning was 200 Million Volts.
If electricity can break down air, so can it break down rubber that it ~1000 times more conductive than air.
Last time I checked, Natsu could discharge electricity through air, discharging it through rubber is absolutely possible.
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- Thread starter
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First of all this is specified to be base Base Natsu, and as people have brought up Luffy has electricity resistance.AidenBrooks999 said:
Luffy-1
Natsu-1 (ignoring votes that involve LFDM which isn't allowed)
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Since LFDM isn't allowed, I'm gonna disregard the above calculation (anyone is still welcome to clarify it for me), but I still have not received a counter argument for my beforementioned argment about Luffy's susceptibility to heat and changing the form of his flames.
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So Luffy can use Gears and Natsu can't use his transformation? Unfair fight.SuperKamiNappa said:
Also, LFD increase Natsu fire aswell
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^not really cause if Natsu could use LFDM or dragonforce he would stomps but it's not the same reversed.
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@aiden, speed is equalized, otherwise, no matter what he does, he would be speedblitzed by Luffy.
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His gears make him faster and strongerCinCameron20 said:
So if they're equalized
Obviously Luffy is going to win.
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actually all we know is that he won't use it yet he was the 1st 1st gen DS to unlock it naturallyCinCameron20 said:
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@Hst - Natsu still can't willingly use Dragon Force without the use of some outside source
@Aiden - yet people are saying "Speed equalized, so Gear 2nd wont help"... whatever, remove all restrictions and Luffy speed stomps.
@Aiden - yet people are saying "Speed equalized, so Gear 2nd wont help"... whatever, remove all restrictions and Luffy speed stomps.
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Speed is equalized, would you people stop saying speed this and speed that? This is a prime example where speed debates derail the thread completely.
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Only a LITTLE problem.ScarletFirefly said:
This is NOT about speed, is abiut the fact that Luffy has an unfair advantage with his Gears because he can become automatically stronger than Natsu and win
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Yeah he can he unlocked it while fighting Mard Geer that was NATURAL Dragon Force he doesn't use it because he doesn't need to yet And it is unfair that Luffy can use gears but Natsu can't use Dragon ModesCinCameron20 said:
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Ok, if this is unfair this can't be added
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@Hst - he literally can only use it when he is either bloodlusted, or using an outside source. Also, this fight is using Natsu BEFORE his fight with Mard Geer.
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I know the natsu being used is GMG im just saying that currently he can use it that's like saying Gohan could only use SSj2 bloodlusted after cell he can use it but just doesn't have a need toCinCameron20 said:
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You know I feel like people don't remember the lucci vs luffy fight last time I checked lucci used a fire finger pistol and severely damaged and burned luffy als natsu around this time survived a holy breath from sting which is bigger than anything lucci has shown and with punches he was damageing luffy natsu also blocked a bunched that covered the entire gmg stadium he did it casually one last thing Lighting fire dragon mode doesn't just add lighting it increases his fire damage and range so I'm giving it to natsu right now
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@Marco
The flame attack from Lucci is non-canon. Lucci only used the flicking attack once in the manga before using a Rankyaku, leading into Gear 3rd.
http://www.***********.net/one-piece/421/12
The flame attack from Lucci is non-canon. Lucci only used the flicking attack once in the manga before using a Rankyaku, leading into Gear 3rd.
http://www.***********.net/one-piece/421/12
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Sorry didn't know about that but he still got affected by physical stuff and lava heat affected him so I still have my other claims(but I'm really sorry I didn't know about the fire flick lol what was the point in adding it)
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Still doesn't change the fact that Luffy got his hands burnt from Enel's melting spear. Heat is definitely gonna be a problem for Luffy
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