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I was not referencing that (avalon) but something else but Yes i do have a counter argument for that.
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Nasuverse Revisions Part 2: Root Scaling
- Thread starter CrimsonStarFallen
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Only a very specific use of the Third True Magic is 1-A tho, so Avalon blocking True Magic doesn't really matter
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"Sounds like doing what we do on the wiki, and not scaling absolutely everything to the highest possible interpretation using numerous inane leaps in logic that aren't at all backed and are absurdly inconsistent"
You love to see it
He brought it up because people want to scale true magic to 1-A in general due to a single line about then drawing mana from the root, or because the Unified language "is around the level of true magic" despite that not even meaning in terms of potency according to materials. This would lead to 1-A Avalon, ultimate ones, etc
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It is since some people here are arguing that all True magic are 1-A
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Were derailing the thread at this point ahd It's more than 1 line, and more than 2 things of evidence
I was told to make another thread for it therefore I will. We don't need to clog up this one discussing it.
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I'm pretty sure this has been accepted?
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Did done it, thread can be closed.
I was waiting on a follow up for my question up there, but since no one had one and the quote in OP directly states the grail's pathway is the source of it's wishes, so shrug
Thread can be closed i suppose.
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Go apply my thread
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Basically this. Seems really fishy to scale people like Angra Mainyu (a character that has never been truly born) and Sieg to the level of the Root just for a tenuous connection via the Grail, which in FGO was said to not always imply opening a path to the Root to grant wishes.
It's a really flimsy scaling and it ends up putting characters on a higher tier that they belong.
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The amount of people here that don't understand how nasu works makes me sad
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Nasuland just runs on memes rather than silly scaling.
The only relevant scaling is that Arcueid is still the strongest.
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No lol
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That WoG hasn't been contradicted yet. You just need to wait for the FGO x Tsukihime collab so Nasu can remind everyone who is the strongest.
That, or the Tsukihime remake itself, considering that the DAAs are going to get a massive rework and upgrade in power-levels to be relevant with the current Extra/FGO power-levels.
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Actually the WOG doesn't even classify the 3 and it's contradict by none being is considered stronger and better than the Root in all nasuverse work and Void shiki is the Root
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Void Shiki is listed in the same tier as Arcueid in that quote, whether you like it or not. And bellow her.
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In the quote they ask who is the 3 strongest being outside servant bruh what you even mean by tier lol.
Arceuid wanker are really a thing huh
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Tier, league or 'level'. Not referring to this site's tiering.
And they didn't ask about outside of servants, that was just Nasu's answer. But honestly, it doesn't matter much because True Demons are already on top of the vast majority of servants.
To refresh your memory:
I could say the same to everyone who makes anything that is slightly touched by a connection to the Root as the strongest thing ever. But I guess that view is more popular around here than every other place that discusses Nasu.
I guess that's what happens when you are more obsessed with scaling rather than following Nasu's memes and jokes.
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True daemon is a thing that kiara in CCC have praticaly attain you know? But anyways i never tell that servant was in their level (tho true heroic spirit should be at least comparable to true daemon)
So no their not in same league it's just the three strongest being that was in nasuverse in that time. One if them being litteraly a part of creator of the verse, the other being the ultimate one of the Earth and the last being a thing that human will never be able to face on.
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Kiara in CCC was still not a True Demon. Also, CCC Kiara is stronger than Beast III/R, who is already stronger than most servants, and also overtook BB, who makes most servants look like a joke. So nothing has really changed from that quote.
Also, you shouldn't really hype the Heroic Spirits that much. We see Heroic Spirit Iskandar in Case Files, and he still needs a boost to be put on the level of a Divine Spirit (albeit from Astraea's interlude, they are pretty similar in nature already), which are weaker than many of the gods that we see in FGO like the Olympians or the Scandinavian pantheon. Not sure how they are going to be comparable to a True Daemon. Honestly, the only cool thing about actual Heroic Spirits from that Case Files scene is that they represent all the versions of the hero at the same time, but they are also a bunch of self-contradictory data.
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Alright the CRT is concluded. It's been applied. We can close this lol
More threads will be made in the future with Root stuff and scaling.
More threads will be made in the future with Root stuff and scaling.
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ask to close it on the all purpose thread
Hasty12345
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I'm kind of concerned a 1-A upgrade has just been applied and "accepted" when the only staff input was 1 staff almost 100 replies ago.
Perhaps ask for some more staff before closing the thread?
For reference, in simply adding a new key/character, Ant tagged like 5 people to evaluate the addition. This seems like a "bigger deal" to me.
Perhaps ask for some more staff before closing the thread?
For reference, in simply adding a new key/character, Ant tagged like 5 people to evaluate the addition. This seems like a "bigger deal" to me.
Zencha9
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Because that one staff is the one who made the tiering system iirc
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i think hes referencing this thread
Hasty12345
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Post #16
Is the specific example I was referring to (you can also look at post #18). I don't see how this can be applied based on a single staff member over 100 posts ago.
Zencha9
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@Hasty12345
Actually crts don't really "need" a staff unless it's somewhat controversial crt like dragon ball and this just a simple profile adding @Regidian could have legit posted saber's ruler profile and nothing will be necessary wrong with the uploading of said profile
Actually crts don't really "need" a staff unless it's somewhat controversial crt like dragon ball and this just a simple profile adding @Regidian could have legit posted saber's ruler profile and nothing will be necessary wrong with the uploading of said profile
Hasty12345
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This is a 1-A upgrade (even if only for abilities), I just want to ensure upgrades aren't being applied too hastily, there has been contention in this thread, I feel another staff member should at least "okay" the upgrades.
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There hasn't been any contention about the OP itself. Just people trying to tack on additional stuff to it.
Hasty12345
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If you can find me 1 other 1-A upgrade thread where only 1 staff member has given the okay prior to 100 replies of argumentation (regardless of topic), I'll forget I said anything.
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1-A was already universally accepted in another thread, even by Matthew Schroeder. This is scaling 3 people to it who literally already scaled to it.
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I think everyone should look at @Blueicemonkey argument, he actually made a good point with scan backing him up, so far any argument against him doesnt have anything to back their argument.
If you want to have any equal argument you should atleast have scan or evidence backing you up rather than calling him a wanker or anything the likes.
If you want to have any equal argument you should atleast have scan or evidence backing you up rather than calling him a wanker or anything the likes.
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@Blueicemonkey
Look at your stuff later, im sick af now. Although i did say my piece about your points and left it there for a few days, but i didn't get a responce and people asked me to add it so shrug
Look at your stuff later, im sick af now. Although i did say my piece about your points and left it there for a few days, but i didn't get a responce and people asked me to add it so shrug
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For true heroic spirit it's because in extra it's tell that them> the current version with CCC, That dicine spirit many of th are weaker than even servant, and for Iskandar if i remember correctly it was just a partial incarnation because faker use herself as the catalyst to summon him to transform it in divine spirit (litteraly why we still have a heroic spirit iskandar). And where you see them taling about boost? The mana was only used to changed his nature and invok him as divine spirit, it's never talked abiut a boost and they can't even invok the heroic spirit itself as we litteraly see waver unsummon him like he do for a servant (this prove that it was just a servant version of iskandar that was transformed in divine spirit)
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Not sure what you want me to further argue with regards of the equivalence of FGO grails and the Fuyuki Grail, since I already said my piece on it and you didn't bring anything new to discuss besides your disagreement.
As you said, Wish Granting is a thing that can be accomplished just with enough magical energy, something that other entities such as a Divine Spirits can preform. Solomon's prologue already talks about the Wish Granting function not requiring the path to the Root being opened.
While Mythic Formal Wear is said to bring the servants close to their origin and lets them overpower the Authorities such as BB's Ten Crowns, I doubt there is going to be a point where Full Heroic Spirit Jason is going to be kicking the asses of Lostbelt Kings. The main servants are already exceptional enough rather than that being the norm (Gilgamesh and Nero being Gilgamesh and Nero bullshit, and Tamamo being the brunei of one of the strongest deities and a beast candidate), and the Mystic Formal Wear is a big **** you to BB's conceptual advantage as the Earth Mother Goddess, giving the the Hakuno's servants a status that escapes that conceptual advantage, rather than a trait that all Full Heroic Spirits have.
It's more that there are a few Servants that can match Divine Spirits rather than Divine Spirits being weaker than servants. The Heroic Spirit status is used as a benchmark of power in FGO, along other status such as Great Hero or Chief God/Demiurge.
They give him a boost of accumulated faith over 2000 years to make him ascend.
Also I don't see how the master connection stops him from being a full heroic spirit. It's not like the full Heroic Spirit wouldn't have a 'master', since they are supposed to be called by the 'World'. And Iskandar knew of Waver, something that shouldn't happen if he just a servant, since the memories are cut by the Throne when servant summoning happens, and only the full Heroic Spirit gets to have all the memories.
The contradictory nature of full Heroic Spirits is basically what happens to Iskandar in the Case Files:
For reference for full Heroic Spirits:
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I know the contrary thing, we have many servant t in extella that scale above the Mystical wear form you knowing? Nero tell herself that Altera with Velber power > The mystical mythology code and we have Artutia that destriy the two in Nameless timeline (+ we have the bullshit of Iskandar FP fighting Altera FP).
Heroic spirit don't have master because their litteraly invok by the World, all the thing of having class and master is a thing to anchor servant. The memory are not really cut, it's just that other summon don't have habitualy the memory of other summon but it alredy show sometines that some can still show having it + fgo prove it that servant can recall thing that not from their own invocation.
The thing of 200year ascent is just to make him a divine spirit because divine spirit need it and it's use too to invok him, it's tell nowhere that it's boost his power
And the contradiction here was mostly because the faker/iskandar merging than anything other (+ we know with maou nobu that servant can be too contradict form lf multiple themselves)
And even with that we have all the thing of even true magician wouldn't be able to invok true heroic spirit, them being higher dimmensionnal being, and moon cell being lower than throne of heroes (+ some servant summon in extra came from the original throne)
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Sefar has an advantage over things pertaking civilization, and all the Mythic Formal Wears are based on some civilization concept (heroes, kings, etc.). Just like they can be used to trump the concept supremacy of the Ten Crowns as the Earth Mother Goddess by putting themselves as another origin, Sefar absorbs civilization, so being the origin of heroes is not going to help much. Artoria is again a compatibility thing against Velber as the Holy Sword wielder.
If anything you could scale Karna, I guess, whose armor and spear are pretty bullshit.
They can have some fragments or feelings, but not the full thing. The only ones that can access the full thing are those with high Clairvoyance, and that's mostly because they are cheating anyways.
That reasoning is nonsensical. Obviously granting him an elevated status of bneing, to the point that he can make use of Miracles/Wish Granting and being able to be used to bring back the Laws of the Age of God replacing those of the Universe of Awareness, is a pretty massive boost.
Saying that isn't a boost because 'the narrator didn't say "it's a boost"' is one of the weakest arguments that I have read.
Plus going from Heroic to Divine seems to be a boost into itself, considering that going from Divine to Heroic is a 'demotion':
And that's what Full Heroic Spirits. Beings of legends that encompass simultaneously all the tales and facts of a figure. Demon King Nobu is indeed also pretty close to what you could expect from a Heroic Spirit, except without the lightshow part.
It doesn't seem to be a matter of them being higher dimensional beings. Demon Gods and Divine Spirits are already higher dimensional beings. It seems to be a matter of authority. The World/Counter Force is what has the right over the Throne and the full summoning ritual, as explained in London.
Where was it said that the Moon Cell was lower? Do you have the quote? It has its own records and Heroic Spirits.
But yeah, let's drop the Heroic Spirit thing here. Just quote me in whatever other thread if you want to continue this.
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