Divine Spirit Physiology Minor Additions

[BreezeHM]

Introduction

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This CRT aims to add some Minor Additions to the Divine Spirit Physiology page.

Additions

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Immortality Negation should get Types 4 and 5 added, as they are capable of killing the Citizens of Olympus, and have Type 5 Immortality as listed on the page.

• Regeneration Negation (High-Godly【Information】), Immortality Negation (Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 8): Gods can meet no end on this planet except through annihilation. Gods can kill each other permanently. Gods can permanently kill the Citizens of Olympus, who will always return to their perfect form, from Demeter's Authority.

I also forgot to include Invulnerability Negation on the authority list, so it should be added.

• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Law Manipulation, Reality Warping, Invulnerability, Invulnerability Negation: Authorities are special abilities on the level of creating a World, wielded by Divine Spirits. Authorities realize a result simply because the user has the right to do so, not requiring a logical process or principle. Authorities are a mystic, far beyond Magecraft, depicted as a manifestation of omnipotence. Authority allows for the manipulation of concepts they embody, being the phenomena that make up the world. Additionally, Authority allows one to be completely unaffected, by attacks that do not possess sufficient Divinity/Authority.

This is just adding onto the Invulnerability Negation making it clear that having the same "level" of Authority isn't a weakness but an actual negation.

Caenis is immune to conventional harm on the sea thanks to the Authority granted to her by Poseidon in the form of a Noble Phantasm. Jason figured this out, and used Poseidon's Divine Core to be able to inflict damage onto her, and then passed it to Orion to deal even more damage. We see during the actual fight scene, that Orion was able to forcefully breakthrough the Authority, implying a negation. Now in case you're thinking it's only natural that Poseidon's own Authority can negate his own Authority, don't forget that Zeus actually defeated Poseidon and rewrote his entire Divine Core.

Additionally, you have Zeus who could not be harmed in any way until Romuluis=Quirinus appeared and buffed Chaldea, granting them the ability to breakthrough his invulnerability.

Agree: @Vietthai96, @Reiner04
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[rogueprestonian]

Bump

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I think this seems fine.

 

[Mbpoops]

Seems fine at a glance

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Agree

 

[Tdjwo]

Sinple enough. Agreed.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Looks good

 

[John985]

Agree.

 

[Vietthai96]

• Regeneration Negation (High-Godly【Information】), Immortality Negation (Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 8): Gods can meet no end on this planet except through annihilation. Gods can kill each other permanently. Gods can permanently kill the Citizens of Olympus, who will always return to their perfect form, from Demeter's Authority.

Why Immortality Types 1 and 2 negation???

• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Law Manipulation, Reality Warping, Invulnerability, Invulnerability Negation: Authorities are special abilities on the level of creating a World, wielded by Divine Spirits. Authorities realize a result simply because the user has the right to do so, not requiring a logical process or principle. Authorities are a mystic, far beyond Magecraft, depicted as a manifestation of omnipotence. Authority allows for the manipulation of concepts they embody, being the phenomena that make up the world. Additionally, Authority allows one to be completely unaffected, by attacks that do not possess sufficient Divinity/Authority.

Why Invul Negation???

 

[BreezeHM]

Why Immortality Types 1 and 2 negation???

Probably the usual ability indexing

Why Invul Negation???

Since a god with a higher authority would be capable of affecting another god, wouldn't their Invulnerability be negated?

 

[Vietthai96]

Probably the usual ability indexing

Anyway remove them bruhh, i don't see how can they have those negation

Since a god with a higher authority would be capable of affecting another god, wouldn't their Invulnerability be negated?

No, that seems like weakness for Invul instead bruhh

 

[Cainlaneve]

Small question but imma make a generalisation here and assume these are going to be the tiering for the nasu scaling with the updates (Correct me if im wrong)

mages and the like without including witches and shit) should be 4D with magecraft
Servants should be 4D or uni in the baseline and maybe scale far higher withg FGO and CCC variants (Maybe 1C to 1B)
Divine spirits might be 1A right??
Gods, Faeries and characters on that scale might bve 1A+
H1A should be reserved for Ultimate ones (I guess)
Void shiki being H1A+
Root is already tier 0

These are my estimates atleast for the current scaling of fate

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Small question but imma make a generalisation here and assume these are going to be the tiering for the nasu scaling with the updates (Correct me if im wrong)

mages and the like without including witches and shit) should be 4D with magecraft
Servants should be 4D or uni in the baseline and maybe scale far higher withg FGO and CCC variants (Maybe 1C to 1B)
Divine spirits might be 1A right??
Gods, Faeries and characters on that scale might bve 1A+
H1A should be reserved for Ultimate ones (I guess)
Void shiki being H1A+
Root is already tier 0

These are my estimates atleast for the current scaling of fate

This is not the thread for that.

 

[BreezeHM]

Anyway remove them bruhh, i don't see how can they have those negation

Sure.

No, that seems like weakness for Invul instead bruhh

I can see that. Their invulnerability comes from their sheer amount of Divinity preventing them from being interfered with, so their mechanism would be Divinity. If you have equal or above the gods divinity, you're not negating the invulnerability, but rather just outside the scope of the mechanism.

I might have another Invulnerability Negation feat but since its 3 am, I'll propose it tomorrow.

Edit: I did not

 

[Cainlaneve]

This is not the thread for that.

I was just thinking what would be the roadmap atleast considering compared to like 3 years ago, FGO gave MASSIVE upscales to all things above Servants so i was guessing that was going to be the endgame for the scaling

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I was just thinking what would be the roadmap atleast considering compared to like 3 years ago, FGO gave MASSIVE upscales to all things above Servants so i was guessing that was going to be the endgame for the scaling

Sure, but that's for another thread.

 

[Cainlaneve]

Sure, but that's for another thread.

Wait, I DID NOT REALISE THAT THIS WaS A DIFFERENT THREAD LMAO, SORRY DELETE THAT ONE PLZ

 

[Deadlock-333]

I might have another Invulnerability Negation feat but since its 3 am, I'll propose it tomorrow.

Edit: I did not

Yea that Rama feat doesn't explain it well because Holmes implies it might be an interference ability/which isn't true, it was just an assumption but I see why people would agree with Holmes' assumption

I have like 2 more invul negation feats from lb 5 if u want /if u have discord if can easily share them

 

[BreezeHM]

Yea that Rama feat doesn't explain it well because Holmes implies it might be an interference ability/which isn't true, it was just an assumption but I see why people would agree with Holmes' assumption

I have like 2 more invul negation feats from lb 5 if u want /if u have discord if can easily share them

Yeah add me my discord handle is the same as my vsb name.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Wait, I DID NOT REALISE THAT THIS WaS A DIFFERENT THREAD LMAO, SORRY DELETE THAT ONE PLZ

You're fine.

Yea that Rama feat doesn't explain it well because Holmes implies it might be an interference ability/which isn't true, it was just an assumption but I see why people would agree with Holmes' assumption

I have like 2 more invul negation feats from lb 5 if u want /if u have discord if can easily share them

Can you post the feats here?

 

[BreezeHM]

Can you post the feats here?

He sent them to me, I'm just organizing it and will add it to the OP in a bit

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

He sent them to me, I'm just organizing it and will add it to the OP in a bit

Cool.

 

[BreezeHM]

Cool.

I have now updated the OP.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I have now updated the OP.

Huh, I forgot about Caenis's invulnerability from Poseidon's Blessing. Neat.

Do you think you can get @Vietthai96 back to reevaluate this?

 

[BreezeHM]

Huh, I forgot about Caenis's invulnerability from Poseidon's Blessing. Neat.

Do you think you can get @Vietthai96 back to reevaluate this?

He told me he was going on a break from evaluating threads, but since this is minor I'll see if he'll take a quick peak at it.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

He told me he was going on a break from evaluating threads, but since this is minor I'll see if he'll take a quick peak at it.

Cool.

 

[Vietthai96]

This is just adding onto the Invulnerability Negation making it clear that having the same "level" of Authority isn't a weakness but an actual negation.

Caenis is immune to conventional harm on the sea thanks to the Authority granted to her by Poseidon in the form of a Noble Phantasm. Jason figured this out, and used Poseidon's Divine Core to be able to inflict damage onto her, and then passed it to Orion to deal even more damage. We see during the actual fight scene, that Orion was able to forcefully breakthrough the Authority, implying a negation. Now in case you're thinking it's only natural that Poseidon's own Authority can negate his own Authority, don't forget that Zeus actually defeated Poseidon and rewrote his entire Divine Core.

Additionally, you have Zeus who could not be harmed in any way until Romuluis=Quirinus appeared and buffed Chaldea, granting them the ability to breakthrough his invulnerability.

Ngl, i still don't feel like this is Invul Neg, cause Authority grants you invul against thing that not Authority, but it will not work if others have Authority, and then we get Authority scaling which is layers at best

 

[BreezeHM]

Ngl, i still don't feel like this is Invul Neg, cause Authority grants you invul against thing that not Authority, but it will not work if others have Authority, and then we get Authority scaling which is layers at best

It does work against other Authorities, Quetzacoatl against Tiamat is a prime example.

 

[Vietthai96]

It does work against other Authorities, Quetzacoatl against Tiamat is a prime example.

It didn't do any damage at all bruhh

 

[BreezeHM]

It didn't do any damage at all bruhh

I don't get what you mean, you said:

Ngl, i still don't feel like this is Invul Neg, cause Authority grants you invul against thing that not Authority, but it will not work if others have Authority, and then we get Authority scaling which is layers at best

I showed you that Authority grants you invulnerability against things that are not Authority, and against things that are Authority. Superior or Authority on the same level can breakthrough that Invulnerability. Unless I misinterpreted what you said, this should be sufficient no?

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't get what you mean, you said:

I showed you that Authority grants you invulnerability against things that are not Authority, and against things that are Authority. Superior or Authority on the same level can breakthrough that Invulnerability. Unless I misinterpreted what you said, this should be sufficient no?

That just layers, no?

Tiamat Authority > Quet Authority

 

[Tipoima]

Immortality Negation should get Types 4 and 5 added, as they are capable of killing the Citizens of Olympus, and have Type 5 Immortality as listed on the page.

It's most likely that they specifically mean the Olympian Gods. "Immortality given by gods not working against the gods who gave it to you" doesn't seem like something worthy of a profile note.

 

[BreezeHM]

That just layers, no?

Tiamat Authority > Quet Authority

I don't see how this disproves anything. If their invulnerability is layered, then you would simply need to have sufficient Authority to affect them. Stronger Authority resists everything below the Authority, however you cannot "resist" energy.

It is exactly that stronger Authority can hurt weaker Authority so no invul negation
your logic is the same as higher layer that bypass lower resistance = resistance negation

I would agree with that interpretation if it wasn't for that we see that they breakthrough the Invulnerability itself.
If gods resist the effects of Authority, they should be able to resist Invul Negation. but with sufficient Authority, you possess enough to breakthrough the Authority as shown in the OP. or am I just wanking here??

It's most likely that they specifically mean the Olympian Gods. "Immortality given by gods not working against the gods who gave it to you" doesn't seem like something worthy of a profile note.

I can see that line of logic, but the Immortality is given and sustained by Demeter's Authority alone. Basically, the gods kill them, but Demeter has to resurrect them unlike if Heroic Spirits did, they simply just resurrect after a little bit of time. Caenis is also able to prevent them from resurrecting.

 

[Tipoima]

I can see that line of logic, but the Immortality is given and sustained by Demeter's Authority alone. Basically, the gods kill them, but Demeter has to resurrect them unlike if Heroic Spirits did, they simply just resurrect after a little bit of time. Caenis is also able to prevent them from resurrecting.

The way I read it, Caenis only delays their regeneration. shrug

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't see how this disproves anything. If their invulnerability is layered, then you would simply need to have sufficient Authority to affect them. Stronger Authority resists everything below the Authority, however you cannot "resist" energy.

I would agree with that interpretation if it wasn't for that we see that they breakthrough the Invulnerability itself.
If gods resist the effects of Authority, they should be able to resist Invul Negation. but with sufficient Authority, you possess enough to breakthrough the Authority as shown in the OP. or am I just wanking here??

Oke i guess

 

[Reiner04]

Thread seems fine

 

[BreezeHM]

The way I read it, Caenis only delays their regeneration. shrug

Hmm I don't think so, Caenis also mentions about dismantling it when it was on Aphrodite. Additionally, Poseidon wasn't on the side of the Zeus during the war. If Demeter's the one responsible for resurrecting them, I don't believe the "Immortality given by gods not working against the gods who gave it to you" would apply to Poseidon, even more so since he was against them. Rather, it makes more sense for it to be an innate nature of Authority, especially since it's common for Authorities to overpower another. Although it should be noted that Demeter's Authority working on herself cannot be negated.

Anyways two agrees, I will apply this tomorrow.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Anyways two agrees, I will apply this tomorrow.

Nasuverse is considered a Controversial Verse and you therefore need 3

 

[BreezeHM]

Nasuverse is considered a Controversial Verse and you therefore need 3

Ah I see. Calling another slave

 

[Deadlock-333]

Bump

Forgotten as always