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Nasuverse Revisions Part 2: Root Scaling
- Thread starter CrimsonStarFallen
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Bump unless this thread is concluded (which i probably is tbh)
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If you upgrade the Holy Grail, wouldn't that mean that you would also need to upgrade all things that are better than Holy Grails? For example Tiamat's Magic Reactor core is equal to 7 Holy Grails:
Enkidu can preform the same functions as a Grail:
Goetia would also be better, since he made Seven Grails, and Ars Paulina is a superior version of the Greater Grail but stored with way much more energy, capable of preforming AAS which is better than anything a Grail can do (by the simple fact that he has seven of them, and the weren't able to grant his wish of becoming the new Origin).
If we count Prisma Illya, becoming the Origin of Humanity is also beyond what a Grail can do, as it is in the realm of the accumulated Pandora's Box which was made by Divine Spirits 6000 years ago:
It would also meant upgrading the Ultimate Ones, as per Lostbelt 5.2 and Lostbelt 5.5, Goetia (who is above the Seven Holy Grails) is a step short of the greatest Saint Graph in the planet, belonging to an Ultimate One from another celestial body.
And lastly, it would mean that all the Authority holders would need to be on the same level, since the Moon Cell's Holy Grail was on the level of Authority:
There are also many things that Grails can't do:
Enkidu can preform the same functions as a Grail:
| What? You want the Holy Grail? Did you know that if you give me enough magical energy, I could be a wish granting device? |
Goetia would also be better, since he made Seven Grails, and Ars Paulina is a superior version of the Greater Grail but stored with way much more energy, capable of preforming AAS which is better than anything a Grail can do (by the simple fact that he has seven of them, and the weren't able to grant his wish of becoming the new Origin).
If we count Prisma Illya, becoming the Origin of Humanity is also beyond what a Grail can do, as it is in the realm of the accumulated Pandora's Box which was made by Divine Spirits 6000 years ago:
It would also meant upgrading the Ultimate Ones, as per Lostbelt 5.2 and Lostbelt 5.5, Goetia (who is above the Seven Holy Grails) is a step short of the greatest Saint Graph in the planet, belonging to an Ultimate One from another celestial body.
And lastly, it would mean that all the Authority holders would need to be on the same level, since the Moon Cell's Holy Grail was on the level of Authority:
There are also many things that Grails can't do:
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All Holy Grails are capable of the same, including Gilgamesh's Uruk Grail and Goetia's Singularity Holy Grails.
Let alone the Moon Cell, which is another Holy Grail and being used in this thread.
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Only the greater grail have show to connect to the Root, the other function just like lesser grail (who can do wish too), like how all human in requiem have lesser grail.
And moon cell doesn't even do exactly wish but choose a stored universe he have that correspond to the wish
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The one from Fuyuki and the ones from Goetia are the same, it is said over FGO:
The function to reach the Root is just punching a hole with a great amount of magical energy:
Servant summoning and wish granting is done by the Greater Grail. The Lesser Grail is just made to help to store the servant souls and summon the Greater Grail:
And as said, Ars Paulina is directly referenced as a better version of the Fuyuki's Holy Grail, having the same design but a greater mana capacity since it has the energy from 3000 years of Human History:
So? They are all the same as per FGO. If you accept that the Fuyuki Grail is 1-A in hax, then that makes all the other Holy Grails or thing beyond Holy Grails on the same tier.
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Requiem show that the lesser one can transmit the wish to the greater it's like how people can use their personnal holy grail to unconsciously summon their servant (the in requiem their holy grail can just summon servant and nothing other)
And for the rest The greater grail is just 1-A Hax by granting whish since it's the only moment when the Root is used, so if not whishing then no 1-A even if you have more energy than the holy grail or have many grail itself (and we have just two "greater holy grail" who are the one of fuyuki and the one made by using solomon remain) but since the solomon one is not used for grating whish he will not have the 1-A hax of the granting wish
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It's still the Greater Grail granting the wish in that case.
All the Grails have the same capability. Marshmellows already says that they don't need to be used to reach the root:
Goetia doesn't use that because his mission required something greater. He made seven holy grails and had control over the Fuyuki one, and all of that wasn't enough for his wish. But as I posted, his stuff is already equal or superior to the Fuyuki's Holy Grail. Reaching the Root is not really that high of a guarantee of power, so why would he want to use that? His wish required something greater than what we know that the current True Magic users can realize.
Heck, if just the connection to the Root is already enough to qualify for 1-A, then all the Grands should be 1-A since they are chosen by the Root:
There is also the Six Sisters, who are all magicians, and the six of them were needed to sacrifice themselves to fight off a single Ultimate One.
Being a magician is a reward for reaching the root:
In summary, if the Grail, those born from it and its guardian have 1-A via reality warping hax, then everyone who has the same capabilities via other Grails or who has already completed the path to the Root, should have the same level of hax.
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I believe somewhere there is a statement that the grail decides how much power it wants to give. It's stated by Da vanci.
Edit: I think it was in Oreleans or Septem? idk i'll try loooking for it much later today.
Edit: I think it was in Oreleans or Septem? idk i'll try loooking for it much later today.
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Connection to the Root is not enough to qualify for 1-A, not because you connect to it you can used it power,
none of the Grand are chosen by the Root, they chosen by Alaya litteraly tell in London and it's why Quirinus was an exception (because Alaya doesn't invok God habitualy). And how being chose by a thing give you tier lol?
Having the same capabilities doesn't cange a thing, as only those who are directly path to the Root could have this tier hax.
They have only 1-A reality warping with wish, don't have with anything other, all the other being can't grant wish so can't have the 1-A hax of granting wish
And True magic are litteraly people that have "reached" the Root but never touch it, as they will be erased if tried, so still not scale to the Root even more when True magic was the common thing in Age of God, True magic is litteraly just the ability to use the energy from the Root but praticaly none of them are Root level (litteraly why True heroic spirit are beyond them and that Avalon can repel theml
Aoko: I mean that no one touching the Root has ever come back. On a global scale. You touch it, you cease to exist on the spot. The very moment the likes of a human soul touches it, it’ll go back to “where it came from" or be absorbed into the Root, or something.
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For Goetia is just because his wish need more magical power as line i alredy tell and show before, wish need magical power they don't come from nowhere, more complex and big your wish is, more magical power you will need, litteraly why Goetia have done that. And utilizing Holy grail =/= being one, so people being able to use holy grail will not get any tier by it as their not one.
Still doesn't understand why you want scale people that have more magical energy than the holy grail when it have nothing to do with their hax? Having greater energy for a holy grail meaning just being able to do better wish. And people having better magical energy than holy grail just mean that they have better energy than a thing that acumulated energy so bruh
Still doesn't understand why you want scale people that have more magical energy than the holy grail when it have nothing to do with their hax? Having greater energy for a holy grail meaning just being able to do better wish. And people having better magical energy than holy grail just mean that they have better energy than a thing that acumulated energy so bruh
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From London, also literally what it's being said:
But if that's your point, then none of the upgrades make any sense because nobody could use the Root's power.
True Magicians get energy from the root, that's pretty clear and it isn't contradicted that quote.
He still has and can make Holy Grails. Also, as I said, Ars Paulina is basically a better version of the Greater Grail.
Because the Greater Grail function is just to dump that to get a path into the root. Still remains that issue that you would be putting artifacts that are of much lesser scale than other characters into 1-A. Specially when the device it's stated many times to have pretty hard limitations.
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From London, also literally what it's being said:
But if that's your point, then none of the upgrades make any sense because nobody could use the Root's power.
True Magicians get energy from the root, that's pretty clear and it isn't contradicted that quote.
He still has and can make Holy Grails. Also, as I said, Ars Paulina is basically a better version of the Greater Grail.
Because the Greater Grail function is just to dump that to get a path into the root. Still remains that issue that you would be putting artifacts that are of much lesser scale than other characters into 1-A. Specially when the device it's stated many times to have pretty hard limitations.
Doesn't change for the other case as in like every Lostbelt we talk for alaya about grand servant (and still being chose by a 1-A doesn't make you 1-A)
The Root power is actually used for the wish, it have many limitation like human perception, mana etc but it does.
You don't scale from the source of energy as even magecraft get a limited amount of energy from the Root.
Having grail doesn't give anything, grail by themselves are nothing valuable except their capacity for wish. And all holy grail are made, the people that have made holy grail don't have any 1-A power
Their are not 1-A they have just 1-a hax, so having a lesser scale of dura and genzeral power have nothing to do with it you know? Same for limitation having 1-A hax doesn't mean you don't have any limitation, it 1-A because the reality warping done by the whishing is done by the Root, the limitation come from the mana capacity to allow the wish, the wish itself, and who ask the wish
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Then I don't see any justification for Angry Mango and Sieg's getting an 1-A ranking. Nor the Grail, since it's only a ranking for the Root.
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Aangra and Sieg ARE the grail, one is fused with it while the other is it's terminal
also the grail drectly uses the power of the root
also the grail drectly uses the power of the root
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Angra isn't a thing until he is born, in which case he overtakes Sakura and becomes a Beast as per the interview from Heaven's Feel III.
And Sieg is just using the Grail's functions, not different from Goetia using his Grails.
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Okay lemme just go through this real quick, I'll be going in order from the first comment about this to the last
Tiamat's spirit origin was about lesser grails, like the onea Goetia is using to overturn the singularities, and that we use to power up servants, not seven greater grail as that doesn't even exist.
Enkidu's is similarly a lesser grail, as we see he literally has the singularity's grail inside him.
Not sure what the point is with the Prillya thing, or how Pandora's box being made by divine spirits 6000 years ago proves its superior to the greater grail
Ultimate one thing falls flat when you realize that the seven grails meant for Goetia are also lesser grails
Mooncell's "holy grail" is explicitly different. The Mooncell's holy grail, the prize for winning, is just the right to use the Mooncell as an administrator
As I said, this isn't really consistent with other mentions of the grail outside of the Angra corrupted one, but eh
The quotes from Roman and Olga are in fact, about the lesser grail, as evident by the fact they mention the chalice, and Lev having possession of it. If you'd notice, we have never once in FGO, hunted down and grabbed a greater grail, only lesser grails, the cups.
The thing about lesser grails being incapable of wishgranting and only being used to store the souls has evidently been thrown away considering Fgo, and even before, arguably Prillya, with lesser grails being able to open Pandora's box
Ars Paulina is also never said to be better than the greater grail, the comparison comes from this
The issue is that you're not seeing that distinction when you're reading this stuff over, and you're immediately going "Grail=Fuyuki Grail"
This implies that the power of a magic is in fact, limited by its user, and thus can't be using the roots power otherwise it'd always be the same
Tiamat's spirit origin was about lesser grails, like the onea Goetia is using to overturn the singularities, and that we use to power up servants, not seven greater grail as that doesn't even exist.
Enkidu's is similarly a lesser grail, as we see he literally has the singularity's grail inside him.
Not sure what the point is with the Prillya thing, or how Pandora's box being made by divine spirits 6000 years ago proves its superior to the greater grail
Ultimate one thing falls flat when you realize that the seven grails meant for Goetia are also lesser grails
Mooncell's "holy grail" is explicitly different. The Mooncell's holy grail, the prize for winning, is just the right to use the Mooncell as an administrator
That Mash one about the limits of the grail is kinda loaded. There are a few potential implications depending on how you look at it, with none of them being consistent with other mentions or showings of the greater grail. However, what is likely meant here is in fact something consistent with what we know. The grail (in Fate/Zero) only accepts a wish using the method the person knows, i.e Kerry's wish to save humanity will use a repeated application of sacrificing the few to save the many. So I guess what Roman is saying is that no one can think up a method to save Mash, and when granting a wish, rather than just generate something out of nowhere (because that in fact would cause a lot of issues with the counter forces and stuff) it only does it via a method that someone can think of
As I said, this isn't really consistent with other mentions of the grail outside of the Angra corrupted one, but eh
The quotes from Roman and Olga are in fact, about the lesser grail, as evident by the fact they mention the chalice, and Lev having possession of it. If you'd notice, we have never once in FGO, hunted down and grabbed a greater grail, only lesser grails, the cups.
The thing about lesser grails being incapable of wishgranting and only being used to store the souls has evidently been thrown away considering Fgo, and even before, arguably Prillya, with lesser grails being able to open Pandora's box
Ars Paulina is also never said to be better than the greater grail, the comparison comes from this
So due to being a separate universe made of the circuits of a magus, they are similar, that's the comparison. There is no comparison in power, nothing says they can both grant wishes, or reach the root. This is the extent of their comparison, nothing can even scale here
This is the fundamental misunderstand that seems to have spanwed all your comments. There is a rather large difference between a lesser grail, and the greater grail, that's the issue. Most of the comparisons (outside of the Ars Paulina one) are made to lesser grails, as shown by the mention of 7 of them, of them being challices, of them being used by Goetia, etc. Lesser grails are able to, in a limited capacity, grant wishes, we see this with Drake as well, where it's subconsciously granting her desires.
The issue is that you're not seeing that distinction when you're reading this stuff over, and you're immediately going "Grail=Fuyuki Grail"
This isn't exactly disproving that it's a path to the root. What this is saying is that it's only function is not to bring a magus there, but to grant a wish, and thats what this man's reason for using it is, not to reach the root, but to get his wish. Nothing here says it isn't connected to the Root
No, Goetia doesn't use it because nothing ever implies he can. He had 7 lesser grails and never had control over Fuyuki's one.
This exchange reeks of early FGO mistranslation, because it has never been implied after this that a grand is chosen by the root, and I believe the Japanese never says this either.
This does not mean that true magic scales to the root, in any way. Something coming from there is different than something using the power of the root. So the 6 sisters point is also null. The 6 sisters thing also doesn't exactly make sense when you consider the fact that Zelretch with one of those magics beat a stronger type (Brunestud is referred to as related to the final boss of Notes by Nasu).
This implies that the power of a magic is in fact, limited by its user, and thus can't be using the roots power otherwise it'd always be the same
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Simply untrue. Bring where is mentioned that they are lesser grails. They are the same wish granting devices and they are named under the same designation as the Fuyuki Greater Grail by Roman, and compared directly to it. You have the quotes above for that.
The issue is that you are directly ignoring that they are compared with the Greater Grail directly.
Saying that chalice = lesser grail is also wrong, since they also call the Fuyuki one a chalice.
There was a need to use a full Grail just to open it. It's the entire thing about the 3rd part. Darius used the entire Grail War just to get the box open, not to fulfill his wish.
He had Lev being capable of entering the Singularity without any problem. The only thing guarding the Greater Grail is Artoria Alter, which you can defeat, so it should pose no problem for the Demon Gods.
Heck, Lev takes control of the thing to kill Olga once you deal with Artoria, so he had no problem in using it, but he chose not to.
Not disproving that it's a path to the root. Just that isn't an exclusive thing of the Fuyuki Greater Grail, nor its only function. So all it's acts shouldn't be considered 1-A. Sieg reality warping something or Angra Mainyu being born are not related to Root.
Wrong again, it's on the official NA translation.
For the Japanese, it says the same exact thing:
I'm not sure how Grail usages unrelated to punching a hole through the root can be considered, but not magic that is directly said to be powered by the root.
Also, it's explictly mana from the root. From UBW's Anime Q&A:
He is not the final boss. He is said that he would be appearing 'before the final boss'
Also both the Lord El-Melloi II's materials and the latest interview with Heaven's Feel say that it was a large war, we don't even know if he was alone anymore. Plus he did it as a one time thing and thanks to CM being unprepared against Magic.
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@Blueicemonkey
Where did you find this quote like the link to it? Maybe im not looking in the right places but i can't find it.
Where did you find this quote like the link to it? Maybe im not looking in the right places but i can't find it.
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The context of each of these is referring to the lesser ones though. The output being compared to, the only one Chaldea has actually measured, are the grails of Goetia, which, as we see, are lesser grails. The cups are all called holy grails, they are not greater grails though, we've seen this throughout fgo and in Zero, or in FSN where Sakura has shards of that cup in her, etc
Very rarely have they called the greater grail a challice. Nearly every single time they mention challice, even in the context of Fuyuki, it's referring to the cup that is filled and then used to summon the actual grail
I'm still not sure what this proves? Julian explains that what was actually necessary to utilize Pandora's Box was one grail to open it, and a second to destroy it. The grail war being fought to open the box doesn't really have any impact on that, as Julian is talking about two lesser grails, and explaining that they'd be enough to accomplish this.
See you say Lev could have beat her, but we've seen that Lev isn't exactly like, reliable when it comes to combat. He is 1 shot before deciding to go Pillar form in Septem for instance. As for him using it to yeet Olga rather than grant his wish, fair enough I forgot that part. But we again run into the question of why would he not. Your claim is that the grail is unable to, mine is that it's probably a very, very bad idea to use it to do so. Considering something on a much lower scale (what DoO was gonna do in Melty Blood) was specifically noted as something that would attract a lot of bad attention, and even that had a lot of counter measures in place to not do it out in the open, something as brazen as destroying and remaking the world with a wish would absolutely activate both Counter Forces before it was even made, the planet and human preservation just wouldn't allow someone to make a wish like that. But eh
Yes but that not being it's only function doesn't actually make those not be 1-A, let me explain.
The quote is saying it's not limited to bringing Magi to the root, it's never saying it's not a path to the root, or that it doesn't use the root to grant the wishes. It's merely saying it can grant other wishes besides doing that.
Wrong again, it's on the official NA translation.
For the Japanese, it says the same exact thing:
I knew it was the official NA translation, I was claiming that was mistranslated, like a decent bit of NA stuff. Although that being present in the original Japanese is an odd thing, because this is never implied ever again or before this, and this conversation even has them mentioning Alaya as well, and from this point on, it's always "Alaya sent them, Alaya summoned them" or whatever, so this is sorta inconsistent even within the part it comes from.
Even ignoring this being "chosen by the root" doesn't mean they are 1-A or have 1-A hax so a non point either way
Because the holy grail is always punching a hole into the root, it being summoned is doing that, it just has other uses besides letting you reach the root after that
"The ritual that opened the "hole" would then begin. This was not carried out by the Holy Grail, but the Greater Holy Grail"
Okay? Unless you want to claim its 1-A mana this is irrelevant, and even if so, things do not always scale in strength to their power source, in fact, most things on the wiki don't unless there is a good reason to
I never said he was, I said he was related to it. And that means that he is among the stronger ones either way
Is that even referring to the fight against Brunestud? Either way, it wouldn't matter if he was alone or led 300 people, because we know he is the only person who'd even hold a candle to Brunestud (even then he was weaker). The only reason Brunestud lost, as we know, is because Zelretch fought his stuff back, and beat him using Magic, which he didn't yet understand. Magecraft wouldn't really help at that point, as not only is it not relative, Brunestud would have understood it by this point.
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What context? He explicitly says that 'Greater Grail of Fuyuki' and compares it with the other singularity grails. You are simply trying to twist the actual text at this point, giving it a context from your headcanon.
In F they are referring to the Greater Grail, not the lesser one. The entire center of the singularity is the Greater Grail, that has already manifested. Where are you getting the that the Lesser Grail is even relevant when it has long since the Greater Grail was summoned and Artoria took guard before it?
That a power to recreate the world on the scale that Darius needs is above the holy grails. And again, they being lesser grails is just your headcanon, since it's never said anything on the matter.
Disregarding Lev's combat capabilities (as Demon God Pillars go from really strong to jobbing hard), Solomon can always walk around and one-shot Alter. But even then, by that point you fight in F and when Lev gains control of that grail, the incineration has already happened and there is no real threat of a mass scale Counter Force attack. The Human Order has already been heavily destabilized, something that still remains even as the EoR singularities.
Seems like a much simple solution that it cannot. The grail is said multiple times over all the series to not be as 'omnipotent' as described, and that there are many things that it cannot do. Goetia's plan is one of the hardest and largest endeavors in the series, so it's not surprising that something that had lesser energy than the things that he could manufacture, and which was a lesser version of one of his NPs, couldn't grant his wish.
F/SN seem to distinguish between both functions. To reach the root you need 7 servant souls (or in Gil's case, a few less). But Marshmellows in his own HGW says that he won't sacrifice Solomon, so at that point the wish granting didn't had the chance to connect with the Root because there wasn't enough magical energy for that.
The quote isn't saying that the Greater Grail always punches a hole into the root. Also it's just describing the thing and its purpose. Manifestation is done with several servants dead, but the Root is not reached by then. If that was the case, then there would be no need to kill the seven, but it's explict that you need seven to make , even if the Greater Holy Grail descends before that:
The process of opening a hole:
The process that opens a hole uses servants and it's unrelated to the wish granting that the Grail can also do, both functions which can be replicated by Goetia's Grails. And they can summon usually more than the Fuyuki Greater Grail can (the one that handles the summoning), and have shown the same other effects, such as Singularity creation and other wishes such as creating a servant.
So then why are you arguing in favor of all the uses of the Greater Grail of Fuyuki being a 1-A effect? They are not always opening a path to the root. Nor it is used for that effect. Meanwhile, magicians are actually drawing mana from the root.
My bad on that.
Anyways and to summarize, my main point is that scaling just Siegfried and Angra Mainyu to 1-A due to a connection to the Grail of Fuyuki which can be used as a path to the Root seems pretty far-fretched, and seems that it would require stronger characters who can preform the same feats as the Grail of Fuyuki (Goetia, Tiamat) or who are connected to the Root in a better way (Magicians) to scale as well. It would seem ridiculous to say that Sieg can erase ORT by wishing on it on the Grail, when we know that you need a similar Grail War to Fuyuki to just wake it up.
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Bumping this so we don't forget lol
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Whats your overall point your trying to make?
That no one should scale to the root with Holy Grail?Or that more should scale?
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But goetia is not the grail he just use some same for Tiamat she didn't have grail she have just magic energy compared to seven if them and magician prove themselves that they don't scale to the root they just get energy from it but you don't scale from the energy you use.
If Goetia was something comparable direclty by himself to grater grail i don't the people in the OP would have problems
I think it's that he don't understand Greater Grail doesn't scale because of his magical energy but because the wish
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Weren't you people already told to save this for a separate CRT.
Zencha9
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@Regidian Then i guess we should explain why drawing powers from the root doesn't necessary mean that magicians scale in potency
Because this seems like a big misunderstanding
@ZephyrosOmega im not sure
Because this seems like a big misunderstanding
@ZephyrosOmega im not sure
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I have plans to make a CRT about Root scaling and Sorceries/true magic with some other stuff after this. but im waiting for this one to conclude
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I checked day 15 of heaven's feel and there Rin says "The Holy Grail can only call on heroic spirits, and you don't need the Holy Grail if you can reproduce phenomena on the divine spirit level." If that helps the scaling.
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Alright lets just focus on what is in the OP. The other scaling can be done when i make my CRT lol. i must warn. I have a novels length of evidence.
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The easiest reason even whitout the fact that true magi was a common thing back in the age of god is
Avalon itself, Avalon can block any true magic so well having a 6D space blocking "1-A hax" is the better counter exemple except if now you want to go with 1-A avalon
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don't you do it
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Alright i may vanish for a bit because there's a lot of stuff i need to do outside of Fate, but i at least want this thread to not extend for forever.
I still disagree with the notion that the grails in Grand Order are Greater Grails, given how Lesser Grails, even before FGO, were shown to take the form of a chalice. I mean, hell, Irisviel, a Lesser Grail, is also shown to have wish granting properties in FGO, even if only towards healing.
However, i am not actually sure if the Greater Grail boaring a path to the Root affects it's wish granting potence or not. It's said that the wishes it grants are bursts of magical energy, that people like True Daemons can replicate, so it's definetly sketchy.
I do remember a statement about the wishes not being at full power because it couldn't be fully open existing somewhere, but i can't for the life of me remember where. If anyone knows where it is or can find it/disprove it's existence, i'd be thankful.
I still disagree with the notion that the grails in Grand Order are Greater Grails, given how Lesser Grails, even before FGO, were shown to take the form of a chalice. I mean, hell, Irisviel, a Lesser Grail, is also shown to have wish granting properties in FGO, even if only towards healing.
However, i am not actually sure if the Greater Grail boaring a path to the Root affects it's wish granting potence or not. It's said that the wishes it grants are bursts of magical energy, that people like True Daemons can replicate, so it's definetly sketchy.
I do remember a statement about the wishes not being at full power because it couldn't be fully open existing somewhere, but i can't for the life of me remember where. If anyone knows where it is or can find it/disprove it's existence, i'd be thankful.
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The difference is that higher dimensions in Fate have an already very defined definition, which is definetly not 1-A lol.
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Sounds like cherry picking to me for the sake of some sort of made up, psuedo, consistent scaling. i will definitely be addressing this in my CRT.
But none the less i agree with the CRT if i haven't said that yet
Edit: Anyways; Should we contact some more staff memebers to evaluate the remains of this? I think we could get Ant or someone else to tag some staff here? or maybe PM or post it on someones wall asking for this to be evaluated?
But none the less i agree with the CRT if i haven't said that yet
Edit: Anyways; Should we contact some more staff memebers to evaluate the remains of this? I think we could get Ant or someone else to tag some staff here? or maybe PM or post it on someones wall asking for this to be evaluated?
- 12,794
- 3,893
- Thread starter
- #120
Ah yes, the 6th dimension being 6-D is "cherry picking". Love to see it.
- Status
