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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

TypeOU said:
the origin is basically the invariable part of the soul that stays with every reincarnation so it's not like there's no link. Specifically, Touko theorized that Lio was a predator in his past lives due to his origin and that, when he awakened it, they all kind of fused together to become a "herd"'
Click to expand...
The Origin isn't a part of the Soul. It has never been explictly stated, but if anything, it is a part of the body, soemthing along a natural "Instinct", as per:
The direction of everything that arose from fundamental cause. The α that enabled the existence of α, the absolute order that existed at the very core.
For instance, something with the Origin of "taboo", regardless of being born as a human, animal, or plant, would always exist to go against the morals established by the collective.
It was the idea that, independent of the process of reincarnation, humans acquired bodies and wisdom from the directional force at the point of origin, and acquired personalities that were only slightly different from their prior lives.
Individuals who awakened their Origins would be consumed. This was due to "personality" being something merely on the magnitude of one hundred years; it would be overwritten by the directional force born from the origin. However, humans (human bodies) who were overwritten by their Origins would acquire great powers.
Araya Souren learned the technique to awaken Origins during his research into the root of humanity.
Of course, he only awakened the Origin of one person.
Click to expand...
and by the part in Kara no Kyoukai in which Ryougi Shiki's "birth" is explained/the Void personality being the personality of the Body. The body is the first factor of humans. The soul is the thing that defines something as a Life, and as above, stones can also have origins.

If you define Lio as the "person" derived from a "to eat" origin, it's not that he was a predator in his previous form, however that may have been - He cannot be anything but something that will tend to "predation". The same way that Kiritsugu can't fix thing without in some way making them obviously "wrong", because Severing and Binding.
 
LehenDuo said:
The direction of everything that arose from fundamental cause. The α that enabled the existence of α, the absolute order that existed at the very core.
For instance, something with the Origin of "taboo", regardless of being born as a human, animal, or plant, would always exist to go against the morals established by the collective.
It was the idea that, independent of the process of reincarnation, humans acquired bodies and wisdom from the directional force at the point of origin, and acquired personalities that were only slightly different from their prior lives.
Individuals who awakened their Origins would be consumed. This was due to "personality" being something merely on the magnitude of one hundred years; it would be overwritten by the directional force born from the origin. However, humans (human bodies) who were overwritten by their Origins would acquire great powers.
Araya Souren learned the technique to awaken Origins during his research into the root of humanity.
Of course, he only awakened the Origin of one person.
Click to expand...
thanks for getting the quote for me. I'm guessing you didn't read it correctly because it literally says that the origin is... what I said above, something that remains throughout and despite reincarnation. "Reincarnation" obviously being the recycling of the soul, that does make the origin, and I quote (myself):
"the invariable part of the soul that stays with every reincarnation"
 
TypeOU said:
thanks for getting the quote for me. I'm guessing you didn't read it correctly because it literally says that the origin is... what I said above, something that remains throughout and despite reincarnation. "Reincarnation" obviously being the recycling of the soul, that does make the origin, and I quote (myself):
"the invariable part of the soul that stays with every reincarnation"
Click to expand...
Please read the lower part. The Origin CANNOT be a part of the Soul for the reason I pointed there.
 
LehenDuo said:
Please read the lower part. The Origin CANNOT be a part of the Soul for the reason I pointed there.
Click to expand...
Sure, didn't feel like answering when the actual, explicit, answer was right above that but there you go
LehenDuo said:
and by the part in Kara no Kyoukai in which Ryougi Shiki's "birth" is explained/the Void personality being the personality of the Body. The body is the first factor of humans. The soul is the thing that defines something as a Life, and as above, stones can also have origins.
Click to expand...
[Shiki] is not the "personality of the body", it's the "will of the body that manifested as a personality". The two might sound similar but it totally changes the context of the awakening of her personality. It's not that her "true" personality is that of her body, it's that her body created a personality as a safety protocol because she didn't have one at all at birth. And, yes, as the first personality, it's the one that's directly connected to the root, omniscient and what-not, but that has nothing to do with the position of the origin or whatever you're trying to say. It's the equivalent of saying that because you filled a cup with Chinese tea, the cup must be Chinese in origin.

Also when did you show that stones can have origins? Again, your quote says literally anything but that.
Regidian said:
Origin cannot be part of soul, Shiki ryougi is born souless but with a origin
Click to expand...
how the **** was Shiki born soulless. She was born without a personality, that's not even close to being similar.

Anyway, count on a type moon fan to be so delusional as to ignore an explicit quote, one they themselves sent at that.
 
TypeOU said:
Sure, didn't feel like answering when the actual, explicit, answer was right above that but there you go

[Shiki] is not the "personality of the body", it's the "will of the body that manifested as a personality". The two might sound similar but it totally changes the context of the awakening of her personality. It's not that her "true" personality is that of her body, it's that her body created a personality as a safety protocol because she didn't have one at all at birth. And, yes, as the first personality, it's the one that's directly connected to the root, omniscient and what-not, but that has nothing to do with the position of the origin or whatever you're trying to say. It's the equivalent of saying that because you filled a cup with Chinese tea, the cup must be Chinese in origin.
Click to expand...
No... Just no. The "Void" personality is the only personality there at all. The other two aren't even true personalities, but creations of intelligence alone.

TypeOU said:
Also when did you show that stones can have origins? Again, your quote says literally anything but that.
Click to expand...
"For instance, something with the Origin of "taboo", regardless of being born as a human, animal, or plant, would always exist to go against the morals established by the collective." said Stone as an exaple. But plants aren't sapient life and are soulless, also.

TypeOU said:
how the **** was Shiki born soulless. She was born without a personality, that's not even close to being similar.
Click to expand...
Just reread Kara no Kyoukai...
 
LehenDuo said:
No... Just no. The "Void" personality is the only personality there at all. The other two aren't even true personalities, but creations of intelligence alone.
Click to expand...
The two ARE true personalities, that were created by the void one. But how nice that you could just how so conveniently ignore the important part.
LehenDuo said:
"For instance, something with the Origin of "taboo", regardless of being born as a human, animal, or plant, would always exist to go against the morals established by the collective." said Stone as an exaple. But plants aren't sapient life and are soulless, also.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a lot of not-a-stone. There's no "etc..." or "and so on". You would usually only expect humans to have a soul, yet animals clearly have one in the nasuverse, considering that besides origins, they can have magic circuits and can be recorded as animal spirits. Yu mei-ren being able to feel compassion for a plant definitively sounds like they would have a soul too. Oh, of course, that might not be the case anymore, the nasuverse is a fictional world after all, something as minor as "do plants have souls" could vary simply because nasu forgot, or changed his mind.
LehenDuo said:
Just reread Kara no Kyoukai...
Click to expand...
No. I'm asking you. How was Shiki Ryougi born "soulless". And no figurative "soulless" obviously. Quote, prove, whatever works for you.
 
Oh, and of course, I guess you still can't explain why the quote you sent literally defines the origin as being de facto part of the soul (and the cycle of reincarnation)
 
Regidian said:
Litteraly her description, shiki is born completly empty if she had a soul she would not be empty quite simple
Click to expand...
If she was empty, she would have no organs, no blood, she would just be a corpse with nothing more than flesh. So either we continue that little what-if game, or you admit that "empty" just refers to her original lack of personality?
 
TypeOU said:
The two ARE true personalities, that were created by the void one. But how nice that you could just how so conveniently ignore the important part.
Click to expand...
"わたしは知性が作り出した人格じゃなくて、肉体そのものの人格なの."
I am not the personality created by the intellect, but the personality of the body itself.

FIrst, there's nothing of that "will" thing you are mentioning. Void Shiki is the PERSONALITY of the body, same kanji, same evreything. This quotation comes in a conversation about how a personality derived from Intellect is nothing more than a computer, also.

"The beginning is me, and the conclusion is also me. Otherwise, the girls in different directions cannot be compatible. "

Quote of Void Shiki describing the relation between both Shikis and her.

Sounds like a lot of not-a-stone. There's no "etc..." or "and so on".
Click to expand...
You are throwing around a lot of words that aren't there also and I'm not being pedantic about it, so this type of answer seems very dumb...

Like:

TypeOU said:
If she was empty, she would have no organs, no blood, she would just be a corpse with nothing more than flesh. So either we continue that little what-if game, or you admit that "empty" just refers to her original lack of personality?
Click to expand...
This, for example... first, you are wrong, because she wouldn't even have flesh, because flesh exists within the boundary that are her and make her not empty physically if they exist. Second, because it's obviously not in that sense in Kara no Kyoukai. Third because it's not empty, it's 空, and he's using empty as a translation...
 
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LehenDuo said:
FIrst, there's nothing of that "will" thing you are mentioning. Void Shiki is the PERSONALITY of the body, same kanji, same evreything. This quotation comes in a conversation about how a personality derived from Intellect is nothing more than a computer, also.
Click to expand...
Imagine unironically thinking that if an information isn't in a single random quote you took, it doesn't exist at all.

"「Shiki Ryougi」 is the will of the body that manifested as a personality of its own"
Pretty straightforward if you ask me. But again, you're just dodging the subject. I have better thing to do than waste my time here, I'm sure you can act dense on purpose for days. Your very first answer couldn't be clearer about the fact that the origin is part of the soul so it's not like there's any point in me answering either so with that, I'm gone.
 
TypeOU said:
Imagine unironically thinking that if an information isn't in a single random quote you took, it doesn't exist at all.

"「Shiki Ryougi」 is the will of the body that manifested as a personality of its own"
Pretty straightforward if you ask me. But again, you're just dodging the subject. I have better thing to do than waste my time here, I'm sure you can act dense on purpose for days. Your very first answer couldn't be clearer about the fact that the origin is part of the soul so it's not like there's any point in me answering either so with that, I'm gone./
Click to expand...
How can something that comes BEFORE the Body (and is the thing that "defines it") be a part of something that comes after?
And it's not even that similar to the concept of Soul in the west, to start. And Origin defines and makes people be a certain way even if allowing variance if not awakened, while the Soul concept, that generally has Plato as basis, allows change and is generally very variable.
 
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the truth of fate you can learn something philosophy and theology and even anthropology I say how many topics I already touch
 
for the sake of protecting the person who wrote this so he won’t get attacked by anyone here. I won’t give out his name nor the website I got this from

If you don’t want to read this or be upset about it. Don’t go further.





alright then you asked for it. Here’s the rant thing


When you are debating against a fate character, you may have been several times have a scan slapped on you with Rin in Fate Extra saying that Higher dimensional beings in nasuverse sees the multiverse and it's history as a scroll/fiction and thus higher dimension in nasuverse have a reality fiction difference with lower ones. And then people start comparing Nasuverse characters to the likes of Featherine, Hajun, etc. Very Nice. But then when you get into fate yourself, you literally don't find any feat going above Galaxy/universe level. So how does this inconsistencies happen? Let us check what Rin exactly says here.
"Higher dimensions in Nasuverse sees Lower dimensions as fiction."
Nothing really implies reality fiction interaction.
First of all, there is nothing impressive about "higher dimensions" . Dimensions are themselves nothing but merely axis of movement. Where does this misunderstanding comes from? From misunderstanding the statement. Here.

Let's say you are in a three floor building, and you are in second floor. From inside, you can't see the first and third floor, but from outside, the building appears flat, and you can see the three floors at once. Now compare this to what Rin says.
Let us see what Rin exactly said, yes? In the original scan Rin said that the past, present and future cannot be perceived at once. Then, it is mentioned that from a higher dimension like universe of record the frame of time LOOKS like a flat scroll, from where past, present and future can be observed at once. Here comes my alternate interpretation of Rin's statement. LOOKS like, not IS. So rather then being a higher plane of existence which sees lower dimensions as fiction, higher dimension in nasuverse is more like "A placefrom where you can see past, present and future of the world at once", and that is because the laws of higher dimensions like recorded space are different .
This is further supported when creatures from observed universe can enter recorded universe as stated by Rin, and she even says you can jump inside the "book" and come outside of it, completely throwing away any idea of reality fiction difference.
Pay attention. Rin here puts stress on the point that how it is easy to see past, present and future at once from the record universe, rather then outright saying "This reality sees the lower dimension as fiction".
Let us see what official say
Recorded universe The world or viewpoint where the concept of time is "recorded time". "Recorded" means that the past, present, and future are perceived at the same time. For example, for a higher-dimensional being with a perception of several dimensions, the three-dimensional world is like the world written in a scroll, so you can always record your past, present, and future in the scroll. Can be perceived at the same time. The center of Mooncell is the existence of a recorded universe because the past, present, and future exist at the same time, and it is a parallel world simulator that calculates all possibilities.
To sum it up, Universe of Observation- change shit as you want in exchange for having no ******* clue what the future is. Universe of Record essentially allows you to see past, present and future- but you lose the ability to freely influence reality and become more of an 'external observer', so to speak.
Or in a nutshell, a higher dimensional being can PERCIEVE the past, present and future. At once.
Thus the difference between dimensions is perspective, the fact that a higher Dimension can see both past, present and future of lower dimensions. The book and scroll stuff was used to make this explanation easier.
To blast it further?
However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparision to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-by-case.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System_FAQ#Q:_When_are_higher_dimensions_valid.2C_then.3F
At least, this is how i interpret it. Now this may seem like purposefully high downplay. Normally, this much evidence should be logically enough to get a character on a higher tier. But there are too many things that well, are rather against higher dimensions being higher infinities after this.
First of all, Amarterasu, who is implied to be the strongest character in fate extra and stated by tamamo to be capable of destroying the "multiverse" and above time axis has a FINITE power level on par with the Sun, about over 300,000,000.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Tamamo-no-Mae#Nine_Tails
Goetia, who rivals Amarterasu, also can incinerate the surface of earth with his power, and his strongest attack in raw power can penetrate the earth with it's raw power. You may say that it burned down human history, and all of past present future, but remember, goetia himself says that it is about a hundred million times stronger then excalibur which is perhaps above planetary at best. Mark you, goetia says that he is a higher dimensional being, and it took him 3000 years to gather that energy.
Pre lostbelt Da vinchi claims that no noble phantasm has enough raw power to destroy a planet. Not because of counter force, but because they lack enough raw power to do so.
Finally , the alien god can be destroyed by planetary level power according to chaldea.
Avalon, a six dimensional realm, is contained inside Earth.
And several characters who are stated to be higher dimensional can be physically interacted with, like Goetia, Divine Spirits, etc. There are way more anti feats, with space ishtar reaching galaxy level as the biggest feat in raw power in Nasuverse.
So with all these anti feats, and the alternate interpretation, i find it a bit hard to think that nasuverse is that high. .
Are the fate characters multiverse level?
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/type-moon-general.4892/page-2901#post-10156340

Conclusion​

In a nutshell, the difference between higher and lower dimensions in nasuverse is extremely vague and hard to recognize as reality fiction difference.
Also, this is my first post here. Go easy on me.

Unconfirmed things​

This is something i am not sure of myself, but i will leave it here. So.....Joshless explained dimensional tiering here.

(Note not gonna show the website where joshless said this stuff as it would reveal the guys identity and I just wanna protect him that’s all so I can’t show you his rant on dimensional tiering as it would reveal the website this ran)

Now i quote him,
They allow you more movement options. Just step into the fifth dimension and whoever you're fighting can't see or touch you. You can also see through their body, just as we could see through a 2D person, and mess with their organs if you'd like.
SO you can have a different perspective as a higher dimensional being instead of outright seeing lower dimensional beings as fiction. This pretty much debunks higher dimensions in nasuverse having reality fiction difference with lower ones entirely.

Counter-Counter Arguments​

1. It is a low-end interpretation
Counter: It isn't, or else the Reality fiction difference would be a high end interpretation then. Especially when the difference between higher and lower dimensions were directly only brought up here vaguely and no difference between higher and lower dimensions were shown later in series like Fate Grand Order.
2. Nasu Treats Higher dimensions having infinite superiority over lower ones.
Counter: False. Apart from fate extra where higher dimensional beings where mentioned to have just a different perspective of time, there is literally no difference shown between higher and lower dimensions in other fate media, except higher dimensional beings being generally far more powerful.
3.Amarterasu having energy only rivalling a sun is an outlier and should not be taken into consideration.
Counter: Again, it is a literal official explanation of Amarterasu's power. Trying to disregard that saying it should not be considered because it is a very low end feat is the same as ignoring galaxy level astarte because that would be a low end feat. It is just a very poor excuse not to consider official statements just for the sake of making fate as high as possible.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Amaterasu?so=search#Abilities
In terms of raw strength, the White TitanSefaris stated to be comparable to Amaterasu, due to posseessing a power level of 300,000,000 in her seventh stage, whereas the legendary Golden White Face’s nine-tailed form stands at 387,420,489,[9]just likeTamamo-no-Maein her nine-tailed form.
From Fate/Extra Material
This is only natural, as the foundation of her being came from an offering to the sun. Thus, the scale of her existence is equivalent to that of the sun.
By the way, for each tail that returns, Cas-ko’s power increases by 9x. This means that in her max power state with all nine tails her power has increased by 99.
Supposing that we represent an A rank Servant with a numerical power level of, say, 100 (not including Noble Phantasms), Cas-ko with 1 tail has a power of about 9, and as you can see could never defeat an A rank Servant. But, as the number of tails increases… well it’s silly to even try comparing.
and if the Titan adjustment is added to that, 300 points at the first stage would become 3,000 at the second stage, 30,000 at the third stage, and so on. At the seventh stage, it would be 300,000,000.
This is an energy mass on the scale of a star, comparable to the power level of the legendary Golden White Face’s nine-tailed form (387,420,489).
4.Excalibur scales to Sefar so Ars Almadel Salomonis should be way more powerful.
False again. From Fate Grand order, Solomon Grand Caster profile
"The Time of Birth Has Come, He Is The One Who Master Everything"
Ars Almadel Salomonis.
King Solomon's Third Noble Phantasm. The "|" of original sin.
At a first glance it looks like a ring of light that encircles the Earth, but in reality it is an aggregation of some hundred millions lines of light.
Each one of these lines carry extreme damage values comparable to Excalibur, an A Rank Noble Phantasm.
Unfortunately, there is nothing on the surface of the Earth that surpasses the heat value of this Noble Phantasm.
https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Artoria_Pendragon#Rank_A
Note that each of the line of light is compared to an A ranknoble phantasm, which definitely is no where near planet level. So each line of light rivals a SEALED Excalibur, not an UNSEALED one which beat Sefar.
5. Seeing time and past, present and future as a scroll because of higher dimensional existence makes it effectively a reality fiction difference
Counter: Except the verse in question debunks higher dimensions seeing the lower dimension as fiction each chance it gets.
Seriously, in Fate extra alone , they only SEE past, present and future at once, rather then directly seeing lower dimensional beings as complete fiction . Rin literally tells you that YOU, Hakuno, an ordinary human CAN go to the recorded universe and look down at any point in past, present and future. I guess Hakuno sees multiverse as fiction now?
But seriously, let us see some of the times times higher dimensions is mentioned in Fate.
a.Divine Spirits.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...39586802679858/Screenshot_20201120_162822.jpg
So Divine spirits, Aka gods are higher dimensional beings. Well.
To begin with, i am ignoring the pseudo Servants like ishtar since they are literally possessing a human body. But what about the actual gods in the flesh?
Goddess Rhongomyniad. She is the first Divine Spirit you fight directly in Fate Grand Order camelot singularity.
Note: I will be using Type Moon wikia since people writing it are reliable enough.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Goddess_Rhongomyniad#Abilities
Due to having wielded theHoly Lancefor 1,500 years,Artoria's mental structure and spiritual make-up drastically changed, transforming her into a full goddess, the highest-ranking Divine Spirit there is.
After becoming a goddess, Artoria also acquired a new level of perspective on par with theKing of Magecraft, understanding bothhis ideal and his purpose. Her gained awareness over the flow of time is such that she learned both thatSolomon's templeresides outside of time, and that in theBabylonia Singularitythere may bean "evil"that surpasses him on power.[13]She also knows Dr. Roman and Ritsuka'sTrue Namesjust from looking at them without having met them before.
See this? It quite goes well "higher dimensional beings can see past, present and future at once". But where the hell does she is stated to see beings like Ritsuka as fiction? Mark you, Ritsuka is an ordinary human, and yet it is obvious that he CAN physically interact with her. Her, a divine spirit, a higher dimensional being. To rub salt, bedivere, who was another human, physically fought her and pushed her back. Man, must suck to be pushed back by someone who is fiction compared to you.
But that's not it. Ritsuka can literally physically interact with multiple other FULL BLOWN Divine spirits. including Arjuna alter, Zeus, and what not. Where the hell do they see Ritsuka as fiction? There is literally no reality fiction difference here.
b.The King of Demon Gods, Goetia.
That's right. Goetia, the big G himself, the big bad is a higher dimensional being.

Does He see ritsuka as fiction? NO. Was it said that after Romani's sacrifice, he lost a dimension and became a three dimensional being? NO. IF higher dimensional beings in fate sees lower dimensional entities as fiction, then i ask you, how tf is Ritsuka, a mere three dimensional human, an ordinary human, beating the living shit out of BEAST goetia with his fists?

If Goetia really saw Ritsuka effectively as fiction as a higher dimensional being, how tf can Ritsuka beat the shit out of beast goetia with his fists? The BEAST Goetia, not the king of human goetia who has a human body.
6.Zelretch sees all timelines as pages in a book so higher dimenions have r/F difference with lower ones.
Completely false again. Where is it stated exactly that Zelretch is a higher dimensional being? Secondly as a user of second magic, he literally can observe parellel worlds.
Once upon a time, he engaged the King of Vampires in single combat. He pushed back a boulder falling from the heavens in a feat of power. Such a monster was Zelretch.
Whereas he has crossed unto numerous futures; numerous Adjacent Realities, he is an observer that yet awaits 'the Final Answer.'
They're parallel... sort of. But if Zelretch was observing, it'd become true, and my feelings on the matter is that I'd rather two routes disappear if one was true.
Apart from his Mystic Codes, Zelretch is capable of using his Second Magic in other ways. The full abilities of his Magic are yet to be revealed, but it does give him the ability to observe and travel through different worlds and even timelines. He is capable of observing the different worlds he sees, being able to see their eventual outcomes.
Zelretch performs the observation of parallel worlds inside a spherical room, said to be a "completed world." It is jet black in appearance, dotted with points of light resembling stars. As he dictates the characteristics of an observed world, these points of light rapidly rotate with the turning of the pages of the book he utilizes. This room is hard to enter, Zelretch possessing a count of those with the ability, such as Caubac Alcatraz.[17]
Within the center of the room floats a wooden chair upon which he sits, said to "imbue the space around it with a conspicuous gravity" simply through existing. The chair's appearance is described as "extravagant" with its wood possessing a "refined hue," but not repulsively ornamental like that owned by the elite. The very significance of the chair in the space is such that an unrefined person would be "consumed by the weight of the chair’s existence and hidden from surrounding view."[17]
From the chair, he utilizes a hovering book that, while the size and thickness of a standard encyclopedia, flips through tens of thousands of pages in an instant at his beckoning. It inscribes and erases pages in real time, filled with information on different worlds and the specifications, down to the very individual characteristics of a person.
[17]
Do you see? Nasuverse never saw higher dimension having outright reality fiction difference with lower ones, just a different perspective of time.

Edit: LMAO, nasuverse fanbase at a certain trash of a site have actually started bashing the person i sent to collect counter arguments, and their main "debunk" for my post is :
"Your arguments are weird!"
"NOOOOO they are outerversal because i said so!"
Lmao, seriously vsbattles, do you have to seriously show how toxic you are? Why don't you get out of that little hole you are hiding and debate me face to face? Can't debate where you can't just ban people if they knock your arguments?




i just want to see if you guys can counter counter counter this guys arguments

Since he can counter counter your arguments.
 
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Again protecting the guy cause I don’t you all to violently lash out at him/attack him. Whether you like it or not



series. Straight to the point , we are going to be debunking misconceptions and false facts related to nasuverse. Pointless bickering ends now.

1.Astarte is the strongest Nasuverse character.

Except she isn’t. Honestly, Rin fans, deal with it. There are characters who surpass Astarte in feats. Hell her own feats are quite galaxy level, and yet not. Here is my earlier blog that talks about servant universe for reference.
Now first of all, it would clearly take her 128 days to destroy the galaxy.



She is a CONCEPTUAL universe, not a real one



And she used up ALL her power to send the MC back.



And she can be affected with a galaxy level attack





https://imgur.com/5msiCdg

On the other hand, Zeus could do THIS

europa: "from the time of the beginning, the victor of four machia; the lord of the skies. he who rules the far shore of the blue skies. he who tramples the far shores of the night skies. that what wields the thunder that shatters the galaxies and the cosmos itself. you who includes unto yourself the authorities of uranus and chronos.""aa, the great ruler of the pantheon, who bears the chronos crown, which continues everlasting unto the future""the omnipotent god zeus doth speak"

And I will say Amarterasu is also stronger then space Ishtar as she can destroy the “three thousand world” which is this

The entire universe is the domain of a Buddha. In Buddhism the universe in considered to be made up of three billion solar systems (a great trichiliocosm). A galaxy comprises of 3000 solar systems (a small trichiliocosm), and 1000 small trichiliocosms make up a trichiliocosm.

This actually aligns with the real scale of galaxies, galaxy clusters, and super clusters.

Want more? EVERY lostbelt tree has a galaxy in it from which lb kings draw power from.

Mashu:
-----The inner heat source emitted from the Fantasy Tree, rapidly rising ---- Confirming a gravity fluctuation thought to be the space time distortion...! In addition to that, an enormous gamma rays have been detected! This...this cosmic radiation response is...!"
Da Vinci:
Mashu, send the data coming from Orthenaus' observation data to me as well! ------------wh, what is that thing----!? a pseudo form!? a miniature!? And it's connected!? Oh come on now! Whichever it is this confirms only one thing now.That response is a galaxy! There exists galaxy within the Fantasy Tree!"
Click to expand...
Everyone is shocked.

Guda:
Galaxy you mean...THAT galaxy!? COSMIC!?
Holmes:
Correct. This scale emitted is completely different from the Fantasy Tree coming from Russia and Scandinavia, it's a Fantasy Tree that is fully bloomed. That great hollow tree from the age of gods that is neither here but somewhere is connecting itself to the world yet not of ours, rather ---- Within that very tree lies the galaxy that we know. What kind of meaning it holds here is still currently unknown, but we don't have time to analyse it right now, since that very energy itself is barring its fang at us! Continue this battle, Guda! That thing is one existence we should never allow in this world!!
Click to expand...


So with that, Space Ishtar is far surpassed or rivalled . Deal with it.

2.Authority can resist Authority

First of all, I ask of you, WHERE this is said? No, where this is officially said? It is just a goddamn assumption pulled out by vs battles wikia upon seeing few gods fight and deciding that if one god possess authority he resists every ability and has like thousands of layers of resistances. The wank is just laughable. Let us see what authority actually is.

権能【奇跡】

けんのう。コードキャスト、スキル、宝具とはカテゴリーの違う特殊能力。

事象の変動、時間流の操作、国造り、といった、世界を創造しうるレベルの力をこう呼ぶ。

神代と呼ばれる時代……およそ６０００年以上前……に在ったが、西暦以降、人類の文明レベルが向上した事でようやくその任を解かれ、過去の時代に引退したもの。

通常のスキルは『このような理屈でこういう事ができる』というものだが、権能は『ただ、そうする権利があるのでそうする』だけのもの。

神霊クラスのサーヴァントなら持ち得ていて然るべきものだが、この時代にその権威を振るうにはそれなりの代償（自身の崩壊）を必要とする。

ＣＣＣではムーンセルを飲みこんだモノがこの域に達する。

English :

Authority [Miracle]

Kennou. Authorities are special abilities that fall into a different category than Codecasts, Skills, and Noble Phantasms.

An Authority is a power that is on the level of creating a world, and includes things like altering events, time-flow manipulation, and kingdom building.

Authorities existed in the age known as the Age of Gods, which was about 6000 years ago, but after entering the Common Era human civilization advanced to the point where Authorities were no longer needed, and so Authorities became a relic of the past.

Normal skills achieve a certain result based on some logical process or principle, but Authorities realize a result simply because the user has the right to do so.

A God Spirit Class Servant should naturally possess Authorities, but to use them in the modern age requires a corresponding compensation to be paid (involving strain/damage inflicted on the user).

In CCC the one who swallowed up Moon Cell has reached a level that is authority class.

Aka no ******* where does it say that authority resist authority and this shit is pure assumption with a near nonexistent justification. ESPECIALLY when gods ARE killed in nasuverse by mortals lacking authority like scathach.

“Servant’s normal attacks can destroy soul, concepts, memories, information and mind”

Another rubbish cooked up from god knows where . Here is where it probably originally came up.

https://imgur.com/gallery/77aYvMR

Here, Medusa explicitly says and emphasizes that the only reason this spiritual attack would work is because parveti just became a servant , and the only thing it would do is separate the divine spirit from her vessel. Literally no soul destroying shenanigans. If even a simple attack from servants destroy souls, then Rin WOULD NOT be able to bring back shirou by healing him after he got stabbed by lancer’s spear.

Oh and where is the mind, memories, concept and information is coming from? Here

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...0036608/Screenshot_20211009-110000_Chrome.jpg

Yeah. That is how souls in nasuverse work. These contain mind, memories etc. But here comes the next question. Does the souls of non nasuverse characters also have shit like mind, memories and all that? NO. Big no. The nasuverse soul contains all that, and so destroying it servants can indirectly destroy one’s mind and memories. Here is the shitty thing: SO far , the only time servants are known to attack the soul is when they absorb souls, AND, Edmond dantes flames which burn the soul.

Nowhere ******* else do they actually directly attack the soul . And that is the limitation of Nasuverse character that their mind and memories are contained in the soul and thus destroying their soul destroys their concept. Servants never have been shown to be able to destroy concepts with their normal attacks.

In a nutshell?

1.Servants normal attack don’t do jack shit to souls, and spiritual attacks can only separate two souls in a limited way.

2.The nasuverse souls contains concept, information, mind and memories and destroying the soul in nasuverse indirectly destroys their concept, information, etc. Servants don’t destroy concepts and information by physical attacks themselves, nor are they stated to be able to. That is a weakness of nasuverse soul that if it gets destroyed their concept also is destroyed.

“Servants cannot be harmed without mystery”

Already rekt. And seriously, aliens whoa re unbound by the laws of the planet are explicitly said to have an advantage against servants.

A: All I can is they're both powerful.... They're both beings that live in mystery, so the only thing that can be said is that it all depends on the situation the moment it comes done to ""having the means of killing the other guy somehow". Among those, Earth rules won't even apply to ORT in the first place and Primate Murder has the super advantage against primates so they're in a league of their own, I suppose. Speaking of which, for one Primate Murder, seven Guardians would be the appropriate amount.

"Servants don't need air to breathe."

Well, yes, but actually no.

Servants were not proper beings, but they could carry out pulmonary respiration as a land type endoskeleton life form.Therefore they were magical beings who do not get energy from oxygen, and probably could endure more than a human, but since they can obtain a form similar to a life form that can inhale air, they can halt their prana cycle if they’re suffocating.Eventually they’d reach their limit because they were made into a substance.

https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthre...-Fan-Translation/page11?p=2190627#post2190627

Final words

Those who really are into nasuverse, you will see that most op shit nasuverse characters do are actually with prep time. Including BB to hack her moon cell and goetia with his 3000 year long human incineration plan. Without prep time, they won't possess a LOT of hax they otherwise would


r/CharacterRant - Demystifying the Nasuverse, or why Servants aren't as strong as you think they are ft. Mahoyo
A common rhetoric on battleboarding sites is that Fate Servants are invincible to physical damage and unless stipulated out, they pretty much get a default victory against whatever brick they're put up against. In this rant I aim to disprove the idea that brute force is conceptually incapable of defeating Servants by bringing Mahoutsukai no Yoru (Mahoyo), another one of Nasu's visual novels taking place in the same world1 as Fate, into the discussion. Mahoyo's English translation is incomplete, which is why it hasn't been part of the discussion, so I'm going to reference the French TL with excerpts translated courtesy of myself. This probably isn't too far off from what the English translation will be when/if it gets released since the people currently working on it are using the French one as a basis. Final warning for the HEAVY MAHOYO SPOILERS AHEAD. Also, I don't mention anything from FGO or any of the Extra derivatives in this rant because I don't care about them lol. Magic and magecraft are used interchangeably, the super special thing is referred to as true magic.

Before diving into the mystery of Servant material forms, a brief overview of what Servants2 are is in order. You have the guy hitting you with a sword, but this isn't really what the Servant is. A Servant is actually a clump of (intangible) magic that can transform into the guy hitting you with a sword. Much of the animated media takes artistic liberties with what are supposed to be binary states, so you get scenes like Archer projecting a sword while dematerialized, or Lancer straight up impaling Shirou without needing to materialize. In the FSN VN, both the first scene and the second scene are completely different. Servants cannot attack while dematerialized, or in spirit form, and the source material is consistent about this fact; if you take anime canon seriously this scene of random wolves making Herc bleed completes my rant. Indeed, there is also a non-negligible time lag3 in the transformation that precludes swapping in and out of the material form on the fly from being a viable combat tactic. In practice, Servants fights are spent entirely in the material form.

Servant material forms have many properties, one of which is a supposed invulnerability to "normal" damage4 . Rin says that because Servants operate on mystery, i.e. the standard fantasy trope of old = good, only other Servants can physically hurt them. But isn't there something odd about that statement? Do her jewels possess the divine mystery needed to kill Servants5 ? Does her reinforcement magic6 ? Kuzuki beating up Saber7 could be construed as Caster's reinforcement acting as the paper knife in Rin's anology.
Kirei's Black Keys hurting True Assassin8. and Rin's attacks being enough to defeat Servants though? There aren't any mental gymnastics that elevate her magecraft to the level of divine mystery she says is needed to hurt Servants. We simply cannot take it at face value. What's left is the idea that (some vague amount of) mystery is needed to hurt Servants. It lines up with narration saying that regular guns won't damage Servants9 at least, so ostensibly non-magical bricks that rely on brute forcing their way through would also fail to do anything to a Servant. Enter Mahoyo.

One of Mahoyo's main characters, Alice, is a conjurer whose familiars are somewhat stronger than average Nasuverse mages. Notably, she is hyped up to be on the list of the half-dozen things compared to true magic10 and her Ploys have enough mystery for guns and the like to be ineffective11 (translated in the album descriptions). Thames Troll12 in its second stage13 is essentially a fifty ton rock that smashes stuff, and in the story gets defeated by the werewolf Beowulf14 who has even more mystery and is said to theoretically be immune to modern magic. Mechanically, mystery in Mahoyo works exactly like Fate's mystery is said to work. Behold how the main cast deals with it.
Aoko's solution to none of their magic working against Beo is simply to overwhelm him with brute force15 . When she does try to kick his lights out she fails completely16 , but it's pointed out that Aoko didn't give it her all since she was still hurt from their previous fight. She gets mutilated a bit for her efforts, and along comes Mahoyo's third main character Sou. Sadly I can't do the scene justice, but basically this guy for the entire length of the visual novel has been presented as a weird but relatively normal dude who had no connection with the supernatural before meeting Aoko and Alice. He then proceeds to barge into the final battle and casually with ease beats the shit out of someone who has enough mystery to no-sell anything a mage could throw at him17 . Beo regens from the attack18but has a mental breakdown and gives up from getting owned by someone with absolutely zero regard for battleboarders' interpretation of mystery.
The fact that Beo's heart was destroyed purely through physical damage, however insignificant it may have been for him to regenerate it, spells disaster for the idea of mystery giving Servants conceptual immunity to bricks. In a guidebook the heart and head are mentioned to be explicit weaknesses of Servants. Recall that the true form of a Servant is the spiritual body, so this can only refer to the material body taking physical damage which is then translated to damaging the spiritual core (since they need to spend energy to regenerate these parts). Ergo, any sufficiently powerful brick can defeat Servants by punching them hard enough, or at least force them to stay in spirit form which is functionally incapacitation.
Edit: the only counterargument worth adressing is the claim that every time someone in the Nasuverse was ever punched out it was because of mystery. Aoko very clearly says that hitting stuff real hard has nothing to do with magic and by extension mystery, which Beo later acknowledges himself. The inability of battleboarders to accept an antifeat is as strong as ever.

Endnotes & References​

  1. Universe, multiverse, whatever. Point is, they're both part of the Nasuverse and share magic mechanics
  2. https://www.tmdict.com/en/sa.servant
  3. Fate/strange Fake Volume 2
  4. Fate route day 10
  5. Ibid day 11
  6. UBW route day 14
  7. Ibid day 9
  8. HF day 15
  9. Fate/Zero Volume 1
  10. Mahoyo chapter 5 part 2
  11. Ibid
  12. Mahoyo chapter 1.5
  13. Mahoyo chapter 10
  14. Mahoyo chapter 11
  15. Ibid
  16. Mahoyo chapter 12
  17. Ibid
  18. Ibid

r/CharacterRant - Nasuverse cosmology Misinterpretation
So, remember the blog i made before debunking higher dimensions having a reality fiction difference with lower ones in nasuverse? Sadly , they have been debunked. Yes, my arguments of nasuverse higher dimensions seeing lower dimensions as fiction was debunked by people with far stronger and better arguments then me. Behold those arguments
"Lol your arguments are weird so it won't work!!"
"NOOOO Nasuverse dimensions have reality fiction difference because i said so!!!"
"HA whatever i say is absolutely correct and what anyone else say are invalid because i am the smartest and everyone else are idiots!!!"
"You want to downgrade nasuverse? Die!!!!"
(Not even to the face directly btw, but from some rotten corner in the internet. Guess where?)
So with a heavy heart, we ignore them and the shit they sprout like the trash they are and move forward. Honestly debating with vs battles about nasuverse is like debating with that one guy in the school who takes the official facts, throws them out of the window, writes their own facts and uses it s if it is word of god. bruh
So this thread focuses on the so called "infinite multiverse" of nasuverse. So it deals with the infinite multiverse Nasuverse apparently has. So let’s roll.
Section 1: Structure of the Universe
First of all, Nasuverse Universe is weird. Not elder scroll levels of weird, but really weird however.
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/type-moon-general.4892/page-2901#post-10156340
Here, it is described to be the size of the solar system.
Servant Universe is a whole different shit.
A cosmic world view in which servants play an active role like servants, that is, Universe. A world freed from the gravity of the original text and allowed to do whatever you want.
Also known as "Servant World" and "Soki Galaxy".
The so-called "universe" spreads between the planets, but probably because it is filled with ether or because of the toughness of the servant, it does not die even if it goes out into space, and in some cases it even "swims". can.
There you go, it is described as a “galaxy”.
Further proof
https://imgur.com/9MiciIC
https://imgur.com/Q73DSba
https://imgur.com/a7NqzJQ
Her size is not much greater then a parsec. I refer space Ishtar, one of the most powerful deities in nasuverse.
https://imgur.com/5msiCdg
https://imgur.com/u0gEpYI
It would take her 128 days to erode the galaxy.
Originally it was a universe where humans existed like our universe, but it seems that there was "something" 5 billion years ago, and almost all human beings have been tampered with ghosts and become servants, with ether. A full, blue shining galaxy was born.

FGO universe:
A myth in a group of works created by writers such as Howard Phillips Lovecraft in the early 20th century.
The theme is the gods who are completely incomprehensible to humans and the human beings who are at the mercy of their genus, which has had a great influence on the subsequent fiction.
According to TYPE-MOON, those gods do not actually exist in "this world (= the earth and its ring, the inner universe of the solar system)", but as a result of Francois Prelati 's trip with medicine, there is an astronomical probability. In rare cases, you may be connected to another world, or as a result of Howard Phillips Lovecraft's own imagination, you may accidentally make a perfect match with an astronomical probability.
So, strictly speaking, the Cthulhu gods in TYPE-MOON can be said to be "something indescribable that has properties very similar to the fictional gods created by Lovecraft
Here is a more impressive interpretation of a universe in fate extra
The entire universe is the domain of a Buddha. In Buddhism the universe in considered to be made up of three billion solar systems (a great trichiliocosm). A galaxy comprises of 3000 solar systems (a small trichiliocosm), and 1000 small trichiliocosms make up a trichiliocosm.This actually aligns with the real scale of galaxies, galaxy clusters, and super clusters.
From Fate extra material.

But the most common definition of a nasuverse universe is a domain that encompasses time and space. What does that mean? Can you take any pocket dimension and call it a universe? Maybe, maybe not, but we DO know that there are two types of it- the recorded universe that we discussed, and the observation universe.
Observable universe
A world or perspective where the concept of time is "recognized time".
"Recognized" means that the past, present, and future are not perceived at the same time.
For example, in human perception, the past is constantly updated to the present and we are observing the future that will come from the present, so the three are not perceived at the same time.
The advantage of the observing universe is that the parties have fluctuations that can change the future, instead of being unable to see from the present. This will transform the present of tomorrow.
But apparently, Nasuverse uses the words “universe” as separate from “timeline”. But Universe is probably also known as a dimension with a finite amount of energy.
https://i.imgur.com/AxoIdBJl.png
https://i.imgur.com/PHzs5ONl.png
And the Solar system will collapse if there is too many parallel worlds or timelines. That’s why the pruning phenomenon exists.
https://i.imgur.com/JirBRbhl.png
Further proof that the universe refers to the solar system with a finite amount of energy and can’t store too much timelines.
https://i.imgur.com/f6aQOeRl.png
People who devote their life to bringing salvation to Sattvas (living things) are referred to as Bodhisattvas. People who have attained moksha (libertation/release) and become Buddhas are also Bodhisattvas. A Bodhisattva is agod of universe scale and power, and can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System.
The evil god of the emptiness here is a higher life (the evil god of the abyss) that sits in a different dimension that is not a parallel world or a different world, let alone the universe. It is said that there is a possibility that those who have that property will have class aptitude.
While various myths, such as Greek mythology and Norse mythology, are said to have "once existed, but later lost from formal history in the form of textures being removed," the gods of Cthulhu mythos have this . It does not exist in the universe (= the earth and its annulus, the inner universe of the solar system), and it has never existed.To put it simply, it is a completely fictitious existence.
BB describes Mooncell, which was the basis of omnipotence (although it is not literally omnipotence) as "a calculation source of a scale comparable to the solar system", and Kiara as "a pleasure land comparable to the solar system". There is. In addition, "Bodhisattva" is an existence that can manage the solar system lightly on the scale in actual Buddhism (when the values of ancient India are placed on the current values).

The so called timelines only refer to humanity.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...13170701058068/Screenshot_20181230-224535.jpg
Even more funny, after converting infinite possibilities of human history to energy, how much energy is actually in the band of light?
Hundred million A rank noble phantasms.
Bruh.
So why does the universe expand? Well, a proper explanation is finely given.
In order to prevent this, we will collect statistics on the possibilities as the world progresses to some extent, and keep only a reasonable ending for the "operation of the next generation." The point is to count up to "up to here" in units of 100 years, allow possibilities only to the world that is guaranteed to "at least continue for another 100 years", and to close the parallel world of the world that was judged unnecessary, and how to close the future. Is going. As a result, humans will survive and prosper, and the solar system will not be saturated by the amount of information, and will survive for the next 100 million years in the current way [Ex 3] . This is called a "pruning event" in the magical world, and the Magic Society considers that "our universe is still expanding without problems" due to this function [Ex 5] .
Section 2: The Moon Cell
Allow me to clear up some misconceptions of the moon cell.
The worlds in the finite mooncell does not even exist
https://i.imgur.com/ZdBcMdHl.png
https://i.imgur.com/0epk9Wsl.png
In fact they are data.
https://imgur.com/vQCccy9
https://imgur.com/jmxKmEw
Further elaborated
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11141/111418595/8513739-194.jpg
Holy Grail can use the Moon Cell's Authorities" and "Holy Grail/Moon Cell simulates RECORDS of the Mother Earth itself and stores that data" further, it states that the "Moon Cell can't replicate the entire Earth if the user wishes for it."
Now let us see what “possibilities” are.
Upon the Earth, there is exists the hypothesis of "Adjacent Worlds."
The World is not one; rather, like a reflection in a pair of opposing mirrors, it infinitely unfolds. Consequently, there cannot exist only a single future -- or so it's thought. In other words --
Let's explain it like this. The you that exists right now can be described as a you that exists somewhere within this flow of time.
It's probably difficult for you to envision. After all, it's impossible for humans to even perceive "the Boundaries Between Worlds" (世界の壁, Sekai no Kabe?) -- much less what lies beyond.
So, how about I rephrase? Worlds that run adjacent are essentially as "possibilities."
Conclusions that may be possible.Bonds that were abandoned.Options that went unnoticed.
Divergent futures, wherein "what ifs" such as these were permitted. It is indeed these "realities in which the future was altered" that are referred to as Adjacent Worlds.
Possibilities are equated to timelines.
Quantum Time-lock [Existence] Spiritron Record Anchoring Bands (霊子記録固定帯, Reishi Kiroku Kotei-tai). An event that manifests at regular intervals for the purpose of anchoring the Average Expression (平均値, heikin-chi?, lit. "Average Values") of phenomena as absolutes. This universe permits the birth of unlimited possibilities, numerous adjacent worlds, and divergent developments of history. However, as the unrestricted propagation of this process would exhaust the lifespan of the universe, at set intervals, those extraneous world routes (世界ルート, sekairu-to?) removed of the category of "routes characterized by survivability and stability" are culled (伐採, basai, lit. "cull" / "prune"), so as to prevent the needless expenditure of energy.
So….. possible worlds =/= adjacent worlds, as in worlds that are truly manifest and not just unrealized possibilities. So, no infinite timelines.
https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/7150-Fate-Extella-Story-and-Lore-(free-range-spoilers)?p=2529999&viewfull=1#post2529999
Further, Velber destroyed 80% of moon cell and it has a massive but finite amount of light which it uses for data storage
In the original version, it uses the term "countless" instead of "infinite"
https://www.tmdict.com/en/ku.quantum-timelock
Our universe allows for countless possibilities andcreates many parallels worlds and histories with different developments.The universe has a finite amount of energy to spend maintaining each parallel world. Because the universe itself would expire if these realities were to expand without limit, it conserves energy by, excising worlds, at specific intervals, that have veered too far from the strongest, most stable timelines.
It observes the determination of every possible destiny every second, computes further results, and stores everything inside itself as light.There are untold tens of millions of lights years of light trapped within the core, and the entire photonic crystal structure is also powered by it.
https://www.tmdict.com/en/mu.moon-cell-core
[The wizards who have reached the moon will compete with one another, and the last one standing will be summoned to the Moon Cell Core and granted the right to use it. That’s the Holy Grail – an omnipotent computercontaining a power source equal to the sun.]
It is compared to the sun (So omnipotent in fate is star level) , and BB compares it to solar system. Aka the amarterasu being compared to the sun which is called "low end" so many time is the main comparision in fate extra.
want more?
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11141/111418595/7557633-キャプチャ.png
Wha... Why is Kiara here!? If the Mooncell is an operational system on par with the solar system, that wannabe Beast is a solar system-sized pleasure land! Just...please shove her on that foul-mouthed nursery story writer!
Structure of earth
It is weird how people decided that destroying the planet is multiversal or some shit, so let us kick that off too.
https://media.discordapp.net/attach...497353/SmartSelect_20210915-205056_Twitch.jpg
This is where the idea that the texture of the earth encompasses an infinite universe came from. What a genius. You have to have a special kind of boner for nasuverse wank to think that up. Since we brought it up, let us see that the texture is exactly, hmm?
The other side of the world
A place outside the human world that is made up of human reason. The place where the fantasy species left at the end of the gods.
Those who cannot escape from the material ghosts and those who cannot live even if they become spiritual bodies cannot move to the other side of the world.
The world in which humans live today is like a woven fabric that spreads thinly on the surface of the planet, and there is a planet called "Earth" under it.
On the other hand, the other side of the world is the world before humans lived, that is, the "woven fabric" in the era when fantasy species were struggling.
In other words, the earth's surface is at the bottom of the planet, and it is surrounded by one of the "textiles" attached to the surface of the planet, "the other side of the world."
And the world dominated by the current laws of physics is nothing more than another "woven fabric" layered on top of this.
If the "woven fabric" on the back side is peeled off, the current world may collapse and the world may revert to the gods.
The fantasy species who understood the end of the gods handed over the earth and moved to this place.
A place that should be called beyond the sea rather than behind the scenes. This world is made up of a cloth called humanity that covers the entire star.
Before the cloth of humanity covered the whole star, the fantasy species who understood the end of the gods handed over the earth and evacuated to this place.
The Holy Lance sew the back side to the world to prevent it and keep it together. That is the phenomenon called "the farthest tower".
Humans have not been able to investigate any further below. 80-400 kilometers below the surface is a fairy domain that humans are unable to step foot into.[2]
The Spiritual Tomb's entrance to the Reverse Side of the World is at 2700 kilometers below the surface.Specifically it is Avalon, which is at the same coordinates as Britain on the Reverse Side.
It is literally called a carpet covering the earth. And the funny thing? The greater universe- not the human order universe- is not even a part of the goddamn planet to begin with.
Now, let's talk about the gods.The Olympian gods--- As rulers of this lostbelt, they are gods beyond gods.You may have encountered some of them in Atlantis, but in essence, they are ones who came from far beyond the galaxy. Great gods who traveled the stars. Gigantic beings.Great machines of prosperity, descendants of Chaos, the primordial origin, and possessors of the proof of dominance, the Kronos Crown.That is--- the 12 Olympian machine gods.
Click to expand...
Everyone is shocked. Mashu thought the machines were interstellar weapons, and Musashi can't believe they would be aliens. But Holmes corrects her, saying that there's a nuance to it, that they're not simply life forms from another celestial body. They are entities which has come from far beyond the galaxy, beyond the universe itself. That is what they are. The twins confirm this fact.
----------------------------------------------------------
Zeus:It was a long, long journey.The beings who originally constructed us had already gone extinct.With no inherent values in life, we embarked on a meaningless journey.Our original universe had come to its end.As such, the flagship Chaos made use of 97% of its power to deliver us into another universe.One filled with life, and a planet which would accept them.However, we were unable to locate a planet which corresponded with our given landing conditions.Tens of thousands of years passed.Few of our ships remained, and we were no longer able to maintain ourselves.Our functionality had been lost - frozen.We were at the end of our journey, and had achieved nothing.And it was at this point that we discovered this planet. A miracle in itself, with a 78% landing requirement correspondence.And so, we crash landed onto this planet, and what happened next you already know.
Oh, and remember the time Moriarty was about to blow up the earth with a random big ass meteor from space, or when Chaos was about to convert 37% of it into fuel? Sure, the nasuverse earth is infinite.
https://imgur.com/x2S9IH5
It is a THIN membrane covering earth's surface.
More things you can know about the root:
Jeanne d’Arc is a Heroic Spirit who, from the start, lost her human body long ago. Because of that, the chances of her reaching the Reverse Side weren’t completely zero… However, that is merely the kind of “not zero” like, as a comparison, somehow managing to pass through a wall with the tunnel effect, but the Throne where Heroic Spirits Exist is cut off from the time axis, so she effectively had an infinite number of attempts to try.
https://www.tmdict.com/en/ko.reaching-the-root
The Root, a record of everything in the universe, is said to reside outside the World. It is the beginning and end of all creation. It is the ultimate goal of all magi. The Three Founding Families created the Holy Grail War system as a means to reach the Root.
So what are the best feats are as of now?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Arjuna alter's noble phantasm compared to a star
Rama:
Even though he may have had the invincible armour said to be endowed with the sun god’s power--- that would not help if the very world on which he stood on was destroyed.
In fact, it was amazing that he could hold out for as long as he did.
It was a feat comparable to a single man holding back an entire sea, or stopping a falling star.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The light converged,
and became a single arrow.
…….No, it is not something which can be called the fastest arrow.
It is a shooting star, a weapon piercing the sky to crash into the ship.
It is an anti-star noble phantasm
It destroys stars, and also drops them.
------------------------------------------------------------
europa: "from the time of the beginning, the victor of four machia; the lord of the skies. he who rules the far shore of the blue skies. he who tramples the far shores of the night skies. that what wields the thunder that shatters the galaxies and the cosmos itself. you who includes unto yourself the authorities of uranus and chronos.""aa, the great ruler of the pantheon, who bears the chronos crown, which continues everlasting unto the future""the omnipotent god zeus doth speak"

...But it doesn't happen that way. ...That light... The light, the light! So big and bright, it nearly swallows the titan whole. Her body, tougher than any stone on Earth, strong enough to resist the heat of the stars, cracks before it. The impossible has happened. No one could have beaten the titan. Not even the very personifications of the world's concepts, those who were worshiped as gods. She'd have crushed them alongside their followers. None of them could have stood between her and her duty. But after she struck down one particular god, the "Concept of Conflict", later known as the God of War, IT appeared. ...A single sword, forged and refined in the depths of the Earth. Whatever man or god lived to witness its birth called it...the Holy Sword. ...The Ultimate Phantasm, created by the stars and humanity's deepest wishes. The embodiment of world-saving hope.
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https://youtu.be/ZrC-Xpakr_E?t=513

https://i.imgur.com/1l6JQYhl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/O4txmfol.jpg
Goetia being compared to arjuna alter.
----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.tmdict.com/en/e.heroic-spirit-summoning-system
and the Throne of Heroic Spirits exists in a dimension above this dimension
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That’s it basically. What is so complicated/multiversal about this? There is literally nothing multiversal here. Nor is the surface texture of nasuverse earth is infinite, Archer of shinjiku could destroy the earth with a simple meteor.
Conclusion
1.The moon cell is no where close to infinite.
2.Infinite timelines don’t exist in fate verse and is retconed
3.The planet itself isn’t any multiversal shit.
That’s it.





now please don’t attack the guy who wrote this regarding nasuverse

just because you disagree doesn’t justify saying he should die or whatever

There’s probably more rants out there but it would take quite a while for me to find all of them

Also don’t shoot the messenger aka me for this.
 
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He said Divine Spirits are Higher dimensional in general and used it as an anti-feat saying Goddess Rhongo is a divine spirit but can be interacted with but that's false because there are different Tiers based on Divinity and authority Quetzalcoatl, Euryale, Stheno, Parvati, and Jaguar man are all also "Divine Spirits" but you've never heard any of them being called higher dimensional and that's because they don't have the levels of divinity and authority that a Tamamo with all nine tails or Buddah would meaning they aren't higher dimensional like the latter two

Also he brought up there being infinite timelines and Multiversal but that doesn't even matter

He said that Rin's statement used "Like" and not "is" and therefore should not be interpreted as a reality fiction difference but forgets that the statement itself is what we call an analogy and not a statement of fact so in that context "is" and "like" are essentially synonymous and as a result purposefully taking the word "like" out of context and using it as a justification for the statement not to be interpreted literally is well.....he also states that its merely a different perspective of time but also conveniently leaves out the scan where BB is stated to view the world as a quote on quote "book" which is the most textbook example of a reality fiction difference that you can get and Zelretch also views parallel worlds as a "Book" as seen in the Strange/Fake manga

Now onto the textures bit and this.......this was not great. The problem here is that he's equating the physical planet to the texture but that's not how that works. The Texture contains the planet but the planet isn't the texture itself, because the texture is a "Layer of reality" and thus not something that can be yeeted by conventional attacks. That's like me saying Saber Alter nuked the Einzbern castle therefore she destroyed part of the texture of the earth or Ishtar nuked Uruk therefore she destroyed part of the texture of the earth that's just not how they work. so him saying Moriarty eas going to destroy the shinjuku singularity with a meteor isn't an anti-feat because he's destroying Shinjuku and not the texture itself. He also mentioned how the texture in which humans today live is a thin layer covering the surface of the planet and therefore that means the texture is not infinite which is kinda a leap in logic cause I don't see how those two pieces of information correlate exactly. That could just be them saying that the Reverse side is larger than the human texture so I don't know what's going on there. And the part about the Spiritual Tomb of Albion reaching the "Reverse Side" is pretty much debunked in volume 8 of The Case Files when it was stated that the dragon who built the tomb died before he could finish it so it doesn't go all the way.
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
He said Divine Spirits are Higher dimensional in general and used it as an anti-feat saying Goddess Rhongo is a divine spirit but can be interacted with but that's false because there are different Tiers based on Divinity and authority Quetzalcoatl, Euryale, Stheno, Parvati, and Jaguar man are all also "Divine Spirits" but you've never heard any of them being called higher dimensional and that's because they don't have the levels of divinity and authority that a Tamamo with all nine tails or Buddah would meaning they aren't higher dimensional like the latter two

Also he brought up there being infinite timelines and Multiversal but that doesn't even matter

He said that Rin's statement used "Like" and not "is" and therefore should not be interpreted as a reality fiction difference but forgets that the statement itself is what we call an analogy and not a statement of fact so in that context "is" and "like" are essentially synonymous and as a result purposefully taking the word "like" out of context and using it as a justification for the statement not to be interpreted literally is well.....he also states that its merely a different perspective of time but also conveniently leaves out the scan where BB is stated to view the world as a quote on quote "book" which is the most textbook example of a reality fiction difference that you can get and Zelretch also views parallel worlds as a "Book" as seen in the Strange/Fake manga

Now onto the textures bit and this.......this was not great. The problem here is that he's equating the physical planet to the texture but that's not how that works. The Texture contains the planet but the planet isn't the texture itself, because the texture is a "Layer of reality" and thus not something that can be yeeted by conventional attacks. That's like me saying Saber Alter nuked the Einzbern castle therefore she destroyed part of the texture of the earth or Ishtar nuked Uruk therefore she destroyed part of the texture of the earth that's just not how they work. so him saying Moriarty eas going to destroy the shinjuku singularity with a meteor isn't an anti-feat because he's destroying Shinjuku and not the texture itself. He also mentioned how the texture in which humans today live is a thin layer covering the surface of the planet and therefore that means the texture is not infinite which is kinda a leap in logic cause I don't see how those two pieces of information correlate exactly. That could just be them saying that the Reverse side is larger than the human texture so I don't know what's going on there. And the part about the Spiritual Tomb of Albion reaching the "Reverse Side" is pretty much debunked in volume 8 of The Case Files when it was stated that the dragon who built the tomb died before he could finish it so it doesn't go all the way.
Click to expand...
Goddess Rhongomyniad became a goddess in a human body so the entire thing about they're higher dimensional beings but using goddess Rhongomyniad as justifications to suggest the entire higher dimensional stuff is not portrayed faithfully is ********
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
He said Divine Spirits are Higher dimensional in general and used it as an anti-feat saying Goddess Rhongo is a divine spirit but can be interacted with but that's false because there are different Tiers based on Divinity and authority Quetzalcoatl, Euryale, Stheno, Parvati, and Jaguar man are all also "Divine Spirits" but you've never heard any of them being called higher dimensional and that's because they don't have the levels of divinity and authority that a Tamamo with all nine tails or Buddah would meaning they aren't higher dimensional like the latter two
Click to expand...
Actually, they are actually called that by Roman, at least in english
And there's the thing that Divine Spirits are = to their Authority, and the Authority = Law of Nature, one could define that as a "higher dimension" as they are part of the system that orders Nature itself.
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
he also states that its merely a different perspective of time but also conveniently leaves out the scan where BB is stated to view the world as a quote on quote "book" which is the most textbook example of a reality fiction difference that you can get and Zelretch also views parallel worlds as a "Book" as seen in the Strange/Fake manga
Click to expand...
I mean... "Records". You can as easily say it's an analogy given the name the memories of the planet have...
But oh well, that "fiction" thing never made any sense to me to start, so whatever.
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
Now onto the textures bit and this.......this was not great. The problem here is that he's equating the physical planet to the texture but that's not how that works. The Texture contains the planet but the planet isn't the texture itself, because the texture is a "Layer of reality" and thus not something that can be yeeted by conventional attacks.
Click to expand...
No, the planet is the thing BELOW the Texture. It goes Planet -> (Sea of Dawn ->??) Avalon/Wandering Tomb/Reverse -> Human Order.
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
And the part about the Spiritual Tomb of Albion reaching the "Reverse Side" is pretty much debunked in volume 8 of The Case Files when it was stated that the dragon who built the tomb died before he could finish it so it doesn't go all the way.
Click to expand...
Around the same part you are mentioning, they say Human Order doesn't reach all the way to the center of the Earth and things get strange when you go deeper...
Theoretical said:
Goddess Rhongomyniad became a goddess in a human body so the entire thing about they're higher dimensional beings but using goddess Rhongomyniad as justifications to suggest the entire higher dimensional stuff is not portrayed faithfully is ********
Click to expand...
The Goddess is Rhongomyniad/its Authority
The body is Artorias.
Ishtar also used a Homunculus body as a vessel in Fate/Strange Fake.
 
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LehenDuo said:
Actually, they are actually called that by Roman, at least in english
And there's the thing that Divine Spirits are = to their Authority, and the Authority = Law of Nature, one could define that as a "higher dimension" as they are part of the system that orders Nature itself.

I mean... "Records". You can as easily say it's an analogy given the name the memories of the planet have...
But oh well, that "fiction" thing never made any sense to me to start, so whatever.

No, the planet is the thing BELOW the Texture. It goes Planet -> (Sea of Dawn ->??) Avalon/Wandering Tomb/Reverse -> Human Order.

Around the same part you are mentioning, they say Human Order doesn't reach all the way to the center of the Earth and things get strange when you go deeper...

The Goddess is Rhongomyniad/its Authority
The body is Artorias.
Ishtar also used a Homunculus body as a vessel in Fate/Strange Fake.
Click to expand...
i did not say these though.....this facts where said when the anti fate arguments where brought up here
 
I was asked to comment here, but Issei is right that it's very ill advised to copy/paste some random offsite user, and especially if it is a "Rant" and posting that without including a name of the user who sent that to you.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I was asked to comment here, but Issei is right that it's very ill advised to copy/paste some random offsite user, and especially if it is a "Rant" and posting that without including a name of the user who sent that to you.
Click to expand...
Not to mention according to the user his "rant" is not even complete that it can be used.
 
Pokemonfan807 said:
well i also wanted to protect you as well
Click to expand...
I can "protect" myself just fine , thank you. Maybe if you wanted to "protect" the poster's identity you could had looked around to see the rant was rejected because he isn't even in the wiki and is already known here and avoided trying to bring it up for the nth time? Or at least had taken his permission before trying to post his content in a place where he probably is unwelcome?
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
I can "protect" myself just fine , thank you. Maybe if you wanted to "protect" the poster's identity you could had looked around to see the rant was rejected because he isn't even in the wiki and is already known here and avoided trying to bring it up for the nth time? Or at least had taken his permission before trying to post his content in a place where he probably is unwelcome?
Click to expand...
Okay understood I’ll use the search button to find certain words to find it

though can I ask you a question issei (it’s a little off topic though)
 
LehenDuo said:
Actually, they are actually called that by Roman, at least in english
And there's the thing that Divine Spirits are = to their Authority, and the Authority = Law of Nature, one could define that as a "higher dimension" as they are part of the system that orders Nature itself.

I mean... "Records". You can as easily say it's an analogy given the name the memories of the planet have...
But oh well, that "fiction" thing never made any sense to me to start, so whatever.

No, the planet is the thing BELOW the Texture. It goes Planet -> (Sea of Dawn ->??) Avalon/Wandering Tomb/Reverse -> Human Order.

Around the same part you are mentioning, they say Human Order doesn't reach all the way to the center of the Earth and things get strange when you go deeper...

The Goddess is Rhongomyniad/its Authority
The body is Artorias.
Ishtar also used a Homunculus body as a vessel in Fate/Strange Fake.
Click to expand...
Yes
 
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