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@BANLK
We tend to treat them as characters separate from the Mythos due to numerous discrepancies (i.e. King Arthur being a girl and Gilgamesh having a giant mobile gate full of nearly infinite treasures and a sword that can bust concepts and reinitiate genesis).
However, from a story standpoint, yes, the vast majority of Servants are watered down versions of their original counterparts due to the Servant container being unable to contain all of their glory and power. Some are actually stronger than they were in life (i.e. Hans Christian Anderse and Mata Hari), but these Servants tend to be pathetically weak (at least physically) by comparison.
We tend to treat them as characters separate from the Mythos due to numerous discrepancies (i.e. King Arthur being a girl and Gilgamesh having a giant mobile gate full of nearly infinite treasures and a sword that can bust concepts and reinitiate genesis).
However, from a story standpoint, yes, the vast majority of Servants are watered down versions of their original counterparts due to the Servant container being unable to contain all of their glory and power. Some are actually stronger than they were in life (i.e. Hans Christian Anderse and Mata Hari), but these Servants tend to be pathetically weak (at least physically) by comparison.
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Oh I see. I was just curious because some of Arjuna's astras were literally described as having enough power to easily wipe out entire universe and Vasavi shakti was descibed as an auto-win weapon under any circumstances, as a guy who loves researching about different mythologies these things confused me XD
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@BLANK
IIRC Fate/extra last encore will start in early 2018 or something
hopefully fate/apocrypha anime starts this year. And yes, it would be cool to see karna as an anime character for the first time
IIRC Fate/extra last encore will start in early 2018 or something
hopefully fate/apocrypha anime starts this year. And yes, it would be cool to see karna as an anime character for the first time
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New info regarding the gods:
Summary:
12 Alien beings became the concept of the 12 Olympic Gods.
The Mesoamerican gods were created by a microbe from an asteroid that landed in South America during the ancient time. (No wonder why Quetz dislikes the spider...)
Summary:
12 Alien beings became the concept of the 12 Olympic Gods.
The Mesoamerican gods were created by a microbe from an asteroid that landed in South America during the ancient time. (No wonder why Quetz dislikes the spider...)
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Woah. xD
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so are they now releasing more information about divine spirits?
(and lol at mesomaerican gods being like deoxys)
(and lol at mesomaerican gods being like deoxys)
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... Ancient Aliens, really?
Well, I guess it fits with the Types being magical extraterrestrial beings.
Well, I guess it fits with the Types being magical extraterrestrial beings.
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Nasu's just weird like that. I mean, Thomas Edison is not only the President of the United States, but a hulking lion man in a spandex suit whose motto is INDUSTRY AND DOMINATION!
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Wait until Ozymandias learns what actually helped Moses split the Red Sea...
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- #213
Well, that probably also applies to Ozymandias' own gods as well.
I also got the sudden urge to post this from that picture.
I also got the sudden urge to post this from that picture.
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i bet that sumerian, egyptian and hindu god would also be revealed to be ayylmaos as well
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Well, it's less aliens and more magical immortal beings from outer space.
Kinda like in Marvel.
Kinda like in Marvel.
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aliens simply means foreigner. in the modern context, it means a being from a foreign world, so as long is it is from another planet/world/universe and it is foreign to earth, the word alien would be appropriate
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Huh, makes me wonder if Excalibur and Excalibur Proto can be unleashed at full power if targeted at them
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@TLT1
I get that, but I meant that the gods aren't smucks in Flying Saucers, this isn't the History Channel.
I get that, but I meant that the gods aren't smucks in Flying Saucers, this isn't the History Channel.
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of course lol
but it wud be interesting to see how they go from here
also, still waiting to see if karna is ever introduced as an archer
but it wud be interesting to see how they go from here
also, still waiting to see if karna is ever introduced as an archer
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Krishna would be a divine spirit. Even in his human form he is stronger than Brahma.
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isnt the current ram only a child version of himself
and since ram and krishna are technically the same, then i guess the legit ram is also a divine spirit
and since ram and krishna are technically the same, then i guess the legit ram is also a divine spirit
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@BANLK
From what I remember, he'd be At least 2-A from my discussions with TheEverlasting.
@Matt
An increasing number of Divine Spirits (Ishtar and Ereshkigal were summoned in Rin's body, Kingu into Enkidu's body) are being summoned as Pseudo-Servants. In addition, Quetzalcoatl summoned herself as Rider during the Babylonia singularity.
@TLT1
Who's Ram?
From what I remember, he'd be At least 2-A from my discussions with TheEverlasting.
@Matt
An increasing number of Divine Spirits (Ishtar and Ereshkigal were summoned in Rin's body, Kingu into Enkidu's body) are being summoned as Pseudo-Servants. In addition, Quetzalcoatl summoned herself as Rider during the Babylonia singularity.
@TLT1
Who's Ram?
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krishna himself is not 2-A
the more recent branches have elevated him, but his original author- ved vyas did not have him at multiversal+, but since he is an avatar of vishnu, he is 2-A by proxy
in his regular human form, his hax makes him very powerful- with spatial and temporal hax, matter and energy manipulation and so on, but that can be countered by very powerful warriors who are trained by the gods
the more recent branches have elevated him, but his original author- ved vyas did not have him at multiversal+, but since he is an avatar of vishnu, he is 2-A by proxy
in his regular human form, his hax makes him very powerful- with spatial and temporal hax, matter and energy manipulation and so on, but that can be countered by very powerful warriors who are trained by the gods
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No.
Krishna is the Personal Aspect of Brahman. He is the Supreme Personality of the Godhead, the Para-Atma itself.
http://srimadbhagavatam.org/contents.html
All this is contained within the Srimad Bhagavatam, which you should read if you want to talk about Krishna.
Krishna is the Personal Aspect of Brahman. He is the Supreme Personality of the Godhead, the Para-Atma itself.
http://srimadbhagavatam.org/contents.html
All this is contained within the Srimad Bhagavatam, which you should read if you want to talk about Krishna.
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"From the beginning of the manifestation He, by His internal potency, has been the cause and effect of all forms and the transcendental Absolute of the modes of nature. Although He, manifesting by the modes, having entered them, appears to be affected by the modes, He is the full manifestation of all wisdom. He, as the Supersoul, pervades all living beings as the source of creation like fire does in wood and shines forth as different living entities, at the same time being the Absolute Person. That Supersoul, created the subtle senses influenced by the modes of nature by entering the living beings in His own creation, causing them to enjoy those modes. Thus He maintains all of them in the mode of goodness, being incarnated Himself in the performance of His pastimes as the master of all the worlds of the divine, human and animalistic beings."
"The learned souls say that the reality of nondual knowledge is known as Brahman, Paramâtmâ and Bhagavân [the impersonal, localized and personal aspect]."
"He whose incarnations and activities we glorify, He who by persons like us cannot be fully known, is the Supreme Lord whom we offer our respectful obeisances. He, the Primordial Original Personality millennium after millennium creates within Himself, by Himself, His Self [the universe] maintains Himself [for some time] and absorbs [Himself again]. Without a material tinge, pure and perfect in knowledge and all-pervading in His fullness, He is situated in truth as the absolute without a beginning and an end, free from the qualities of nature, eternal and without an equal. Oh wise one, the great thinkers can only understand this with a pacified self and their senses at rest, otherwise it will certainly be beyond their scope and be distorted by time-bound arguments. The first avatâra of the Lord is the Original Person: [Mahâvishnu or Kâranodakas'âyî Vishnu. He is the foundation of] space time [kâla svabhavah, the original nature of time], cause, effect, the elements, the modes, as also the ego, the senses and the mind. These together constitute the diversity of the gigantic universal independent body [also called Garbhodakas'âyî Vishnu] of all that moves and does not move of the Almighty Supreme."
"Maitreya said: 'It [Eternal Time] is the source of the different [organic and anorganic] interactions of the modes of nature, it is undivided and unlimited and it is the instrument of the Original Person to create, by His pastimes, the material life of the soul. It is by means of time [kâla], the hidden, impersonal feature, that the Lord separated from the Supreme Absolute [God or brahma] the material phenomenon that was established as the bewildering material potency of Vishnu. The way it [Eternal Time] is there in the present, it was there in the beginning and will also be there hereafter."
"All this I enumerated - earth, air, sky, water and fire, the ego, the greater [principle, the intellect], the [additional eleven] transformations [the ten indriyas and the mind], the person, that what is unmanifest and the modes of rajas, tamas and sattva - stands together with the spiritual knowledge and the steady conviction [therewith] for Me, I the One Supreme. I, the Supreme Lord, the living entity, the [good] qualities and the possessor of the qualities, am the Soul of all; I am indeed everything, the one outside of whom nothing whatsoever exists. I who create the universes by the millions, may count their atoms after a certain time, but not so My opulences [compare 10.14: 7]. Whatever power, beauty, fame, dominion [see 11.15], humility, renunciation, enjoyment, fortune, strength, tolerance or wisdom one may find, all constitutes an integral part of Me."
To say that Krishna as the Supreme God is an invention of newer sects shows a lot of ignorance on Hinduism.
"The learned souls say that the reality of nondual knowledge is known as Brahman, Paramâtmâ and Bhagavân [the impersonal, localized and personal aspect]."
"He whose incarnations and activities we glorify, He who by persons like us cannot be fully known, is the Supreme Lord whom we offer our respectful obeisances. He, the Primordial Original Personality millennium after millennium creates within Himself, by Himself, His Self [the universe] maintains Himself [for some time] and absorbs [Himself again]. Without a material tinge, pure and perfect in knowledge and all-pervading in His fullness, He is situated in truth as the absolute without a beginning and an end, free from the qualities of nature, eternal and without an equal. Oh wise one, the great thinkers can only understand this with a pacified self and their senses at rest, otherwise it will certainly be beyond their scope and be distorted by time-bound arguments. The first avatâra of the Lord is the Original Person: [Mahâvishnu or Kâranodakas'âyî Vishnu. He is the foundation of] space time [kâla svabhavah, the original nature of time], cause, effect, the elements, the modes, as also the ego, the senses and the mind. These together constitute the diversity of the gigantic universal independent body [also called Garbhodakas'âyî Vishnu] of all that moves and does not move of the Almighty Supreme."
"Maitreya said: 'It [Eternal Time] is the source of the different [organic and anorganic] interactions of the modes of nature, it is undivided and unlimited and it is the instrument of the Original Person to create, by His pastimes, the material life of the soul. It is by means of time [kâla], the hidden, impersonal feature, that the Lord separated from the Supreme Absolute [God or brahma] the material phenomenon that was established as the bewildering material potency of Vishnu. The way it [Eternal Time] is there in the present, it was there in the beginning and will also be there hereafter."
"All this I enumerated - earth, air, sky, water and fire, the ego, the greater [principle, the intellect], the [additional eleven] transformations [the ten indriyas and the mind], the person, that what is unmanifest and the modes of rajas, tamas and sattva - stands together with the spiritual knowledge and the steady conviction [therewith] for Me, I the One Supreme. I, the Supreme Lord, the living entity, the [good] qualities and the possessor of the qualities, am the Soul of all; I am indeed everything, the one outside of whom nothing whatsoever exists. I who create the universes by the millions, may count their atoms after a certain time, but not so My opulences [compare 10.14: 7]. Whatever power, beauty, fame, dominion [see 11.15], humility, renunciation, enjoyment, fortune, strength, tolerance or wisdom one may find, all constitutes an integral part of Me."
To say that Krishna as the Supreme God is an invention of newer sects shows a lot of ignorance on Hinduism.
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who was the first author to give krishna a rank equal to trimurti, cuz im sure that it wasnt veda vyas? cuz im sure that he didnt have a massive tier 2 rank in the mahabharata without using divine weapons
Also as far as aspect goes: yes, he IS the avatar of vishnu, who is a special aspect of brahman (not to be confused with the primordial god brahma) as described in early hindu texts, hence he is indeed specially associated with brahman.
On the other hand, the shaivic hindu branches consider every living thing to be inherently linked to brahman- that doesnt mean that the shaivic branches have every living thing at tier 2 (but, the shaivic branches do believe that due to this link, the durability of the soul is tier 2, but AP is not at that lvl)
Also, by newer branches, i mean all the changes that happened after veda vyas. These could be as old as 200 BCE, but they are still "newer" when compared to the original compilation of mahabharata (which was around 800 BCE or older), and btw a lot of changes have been made to the mahabharata when compared to its original version.
PS, the stuff you quoted seems to come from the Bhagavata purana, which is a 5th to 6th centure CE text iirc. I'm not saying that no version of krishan is 2-A, but the original one from mahabharata is definitely not 2-A in attack potency without using a divine weapon.
Also as far as aspect goes: yes, he IS the avatar of vishnu, who is a special aspect of brahman (not to be confused with the primordial god brahma) as described in early hindu texts, hence he is indeed specially associated with brahman.
On the other hand, the shaivic hindu branches consider every living thing to be inherently linked to brahman- that doesnt mean that the shaivic branches have every living thing at tier 2 (but, the shaivic branches do believe that due to this link, the durability of the soul is tier 2, but AP is not at that lvl)
Also, by newer branches, i mean all the changes that happened after veda vyas. These could be as old as 200 BCE, but they are still "newer" when compared to the original compilation of mahabharata (which was around 800 BCE or older), and btw a lot of changes have been made to the mahabharata when compared to its original version.
PS, the stuff you quoted seems to come from the Bhagavata purana, which is a 5th to 6th centure CE text iirc. I'm not saying that no version of krishan is 2-A, but the original one from mahabharata is definitely not 2-A in attack potency without using a divine weapon.
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He is not an avatar of Vishnu, the text I quoted even said Maha-Vishnu is HIS Avatar. He might be just an Avtar in many branches of Hinduism, but Krishnaism is no more valid than any other.
And don't tell me you haven't seen the myth where Brahma himself bows to mortal Krishna when he realized who he is, or the myth that Krishna had an entire universe inside his mouth as a baby?
Also, why 2-A? Hinduism is 1-A.
And don't tell me you haven't seen the myth where Brahma himself bows to mortal Krishna when he realized who he is, or the myth that Krishna had an entire universe inside his mouth as a baby?
Also, why 2-A? Hinduism is 1-A.
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yeah, i am talking about the original krishna, the branch you are refering to is definitely a newer one (relatively, compared to the older ones).
And, iirc hinduism is only 1-A if you count in jain mathematics
And, iirc hinduism is only 1-A if you count in jain mathematics
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No, it is 1-A through the concept of Brahman.
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brhaman does cover all of totality and ifninity and concepts, but I think it is unfair to rank a pantheon at 1-A UNLESS the pantheon in question actually has either the concept of infinite eidmensions or the concept of cardinal sets of number
jainism clearly has it, but i dont recall any hindu text mentioning this clearly. If there is a text however, then it would apply to all versions of characters that are dated after the text, so a text talking about infinities dated at say 700 AD will not apply to the mahabharata veda vyas version of krishna (there are many versions of him btw)
jainism clearly has it, but i dont recall any hindu text mentioning this clearly. If there is a text however, then it would apply to all versions of characters that are dated after the text, so a text talking about infinities dated at say 700 AD will not apply to the mahabharata veda vyas version of krishna (there are many versions of him btw)
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You don't need explict mention of Infinite Dimensions in order to be 1-A. Brahman is 1-A due to the philosophical and theological implications of its nature, as the oneness before duality and absolute transcendence over all concepts on every scale.
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duality means means of operation in terms of mathematics
but if we are strictly talking about its philosophical value, then it refers to the two-fold nature of reality and its two over-arching categories
transcendence means exceeding all of the world
but if the world itself is only an infinite multiverse of the irst order, then transcending duality and reality would only mean that you are above at least an infinite universe, it doesnt take you the higher order of infinity unless you world/ pantheon has that law inherent within it, and since i do not recall any such properties within the hindu pantheon, i do not have the transcendental trimurti at 1-A, but them being 2-A or "At least 2-A" is entirely plausible
but if we are strictly talking about its philosophical value, then it refers to the two-fold nature of reality and its two over-arching categories
transcendence means exceeding all of the world
but if the world itself is only an infinite multiverse of the irst order, then transcending duality and reality would only mean that you are above at least an infinite universe, it doesnt take you the higher order of infinity unless you world/ pantheon has that law inherent within it, and since i do not recall any such properties within the hindu pantheon, i do not have the transcendental trimurti at 1-A, but them being 2-A or "At least 2-A" is entirely plausible
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