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Nasuverse: Base Servant Stats Revisions

I strongly agree with the downgrade. And I find both fair, though would lean towards the Low 7-B end, as it is a more direct statement of how strong a singular strike is.

Though I do find "possibly 6-C" to be iffy, but I dont flat out reject it.
 



Would someone want to calc this? Karna's activation for his NP was melting things around Siegfried but he was able to withstand that power just fine. perhaps it could scale to his durability which could scale to physical strength feats?
 
Striking strength probably shouldn't scale to their AP however, imo I think that's best kept as 7-A since they don't deal as much damage via physical attacks. Attack Potency and such is fair game but I don't think it's fair to say they can hit that hard under normal circumstances unless we wanna leave that section as "unknown. "



Also if something like Gawain "barely" surviving was a mistranslation such mistakes should be looked for in the other profiles. :p
 
With the points brought up about the statement of Gawain being "near death" not existing, and other tier 6 feats for NPs and such which can scale to physicals, I don't really see the grounds for the downgrade

That said, if one happens, there's really no reason to not have a tier range, as those other feats do in fact exist, and scale to people. So a likely or possibly 6-C or High 6-C depending on how far you decide to backscale using lionking, would make sense to me
 
Not so much a mistranslation as more of a hearsay, which I tried to find the source of but couldn't find anything. The best I could get was the wiki which... is a big yikes and a big no.

But anyway, the only hard number we have is the Lion King's feat. Even if my point about Karna and Siegfried being able to take stronger NPs without dividing them by hundreds is true, there's only one feat.

Such being the case, I do agree that having the 6-C/High 6-C as a likely/possibly is generally better. The tier has backing, but is not cemented enough for my liking.

Also, after a closer look, I really don't think the Medea feat can be used. The mirror worlds get smaller the further Servants they catch, and you can even see in the shot where Illya's power awakens that the wall of the mirror world seems far too close to the river and the bridge. There's an entire city on that side of the bridge but I see no trace of it. Does another shot show if the mirror world extends that far?

So taking that into consideration, I agree with Zoey that Low 7-B seems better.

Edit: Striking strength should totally scale to their AP, wooot :V? At least for the Servants that actually fight mainly with close range weapons. Rin needed 5 gems aimed at Heracles' head to kill him once, and one of those gems can clash with one of Medea's spells which are A Rank.
 
TheUnshakableOne said:



Would someone want to calc this? Karna's activation for his NP was melting things around Siegfried but he was able to withstand that power just fine. perhaps it could scale to his durability which could scale to physical strength feats?
Click to expand...

Siegfried being able stand just fine when everything else around him is melting might yield something that could support tier 7 physical stats. The Activation is like a warm up before the big blast isn't it?
 
If that's more reliable calc then I agree with Low 7-B. For A+ NPs, just multiply it by 7 for Caliburn killing Heracles 7 times at once.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Quetz did that while she still had some of her divinity, so I am not sure at all about scaling that to normal Servants.

But there was also that feat of Alcides sending a bunch of rocks flying so hard it looked like an eruption after being punched straight into a mountain.
Click to expand...
I mean, to be fair every god servant has some divinity left on them but they are still like, somewhat comparable to each other. If it's iffy we can always put them at "Class blahblah likely Class T".

I do agree Alcides's feat should be calculated.
 
Nah, there is a big number of NPs on that rank that do tier 6 shit, so I would say it is safe to scale them to that.

@CrimsonStarFallen I don't mean the divinity skill, I mean literal divinity, as in having Access to their Godly power beyond the smallest speck of it. Divine Servants can't wield that power, or their authority, without damaging or completely busting their core, so that shouldn't scale to normal Servants Quetz. Though likely is a possibility, I do admit. Though I wonder where is that guy that did Bazildot's profile and some other shit, I know he wanted to calc that feat. Perhaps he did and I just didn't find out.

Edit: As for the Karna thing, I imagine you could calc it and maybe scale it to Karna...? He is in the epicenter of it after all, and his armor is completely off. Servants also don't have some sort of special protection to their own NPs if they are just a big **** off nuke.

Granted, the feat just doesn't interest me mucht, but I guess that's something you could try.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Edit: As for the Karna thing, I imagine you could calc it and maybe scale it to Karna...? He is in the epicenter of it after all, and his armor is completely off. Servants also don't have some sort of special protection to their own NPs if they are just a big **** off nuke.

Granted, the feat just doesn't interest me mucht, but I guess that's something you could try.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah i didn't think about that part


btw does Karna's armor not work for a short time after using his NP? Because if so he managed to take an attack from Gawains Excalibur Galatine in such a state. [[nvm on that last part. i just read the context. the attack should have been fatal but karna is trying to remain through sheer force of will]]
 
I don't think that was any different from Servant Quetz tho? Forgive my memory since it's been so long since i played the event, but wasn't that Quetz in Servant form?
 
Outside of the Lion King thing which it seems is largely fine, two other tier 6 physical feats that come to mind via NP scaling.

Herc technically suriving Excalibur Morgan in HF. Despite, well, losing, he was still alive, and it was noted that the shadow didn't fix his wounds from the Saber fight.

Herc surviving an A rank Broken Phantasm (Caladbolg) blowing up on him, these should still scale to tier 6, possibly backscaling off things like the Bennu or Laputa calc, by an unknown amount.

There are probably other examples, since there were a decent amount of feats shown in the thread linked before, for NPs, so you'd just need to find times that those NPs were blocked or something for more examples. Or, do what Nasu does, and consider certain attacks equivalent to NPs, which would also work for scaling, such as the case of Salter's mana bursts cleaving through Herc for instance, since they were equivalent to A rank attacks.
 
Fate/type Redline has Servants with D Rank Endurance being unbothered by a large explosion that decimated the center of Tokyo.
l8FCh9L.jpeg
 
I haven't seen much of Redline, so I didn't think of that one.

As for Herc, I admit that I prefer not using stuff that he survives through his multiple lives. Caliburn took 7 lives, but then the stronger Morgan can't kill him, and Medea buffing him with defense stuff let him tank Full Goddess Artemis' laser 2 times.

Unlike Siegfried downgrading by rank and Karna cutting to a tenth, it just feels a lot more all over the place?

And Caladbolg should by all means not be used. Herk getting one shot by Durindana and then clashing with Caladbolg without a scratch on himself pretty much screams outlier, since both are just A Rank.
 
Wasn't the Caliburn killing him also in part due to well, it being inside him? That said, Morgan did take him down, it just didn't permanently kill him, so idk if its actually an issue to use.
Lostbelt Hercs are just kinda all over the place though, such as him just blocking Loptr with his face for a bit, so they probably shouldn't be used.

I personally think scaling via Herc stuff is fine, and we had done it before for a while so eh.

As for the Caladbolg thing, I'd argue that if it was an outlier, it'd be the other way around. He tanks Caladbolg, he's tanked other strong things as well, but Hector's spear is suddenly able to both instantly kill Herc and pierce Asterios.

As for where the feats were before, none of the people presenting the feats pay attention to the discussion thread at all kek
 
If you do wanna try the explosion thingy, since that one is new to me and I hadn't heard it mentioned before, it is in the first chapter of the Redline manga.

Interestingly, the number of deaths is mentioned at around... 200,000 people I think? Just checked it. Pretty similar to the atomic bombs, but not sure how easy it'd be to calc the size of the explosion since the background seems a bit hard to use.

@Paul_Frank Except he didn't tank other shit without a scratch. Medea's magic for sure doesn't scale to high end NPs, but she could still kill Heracles 2-3 times. Heracles is one of the very few cases, or the only one that comes to mind right now, of a Servant taking a high level NP head on and coming out squeaky clean with no wounds.

Considering Nasu had it changed in UBW so that he actually died from it when he didn't have time to strike it with his sword, then Caladbolg is put into even more doubt. Sure, "adaptation", but it only supports even further "Similar ranked NPs are stronger than Servant Base Stats" and Durindana killing him.
 
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What if the outlier there is Hektors spear for instantly killing herc?

Did Herc also have Godhand (whatever its called) in okanaeos?
 
Hector's Spear being the outlier makes no sense though...

Why the hell would we scale a Servant directly to an NP? Not any NP, an NP of similar rank to their STR. After NPs have been said again and again to be stronger than normal attacks. After they keep getting treated like trump cards and when their power is really low, like Antares Snipe, or their use is something else, like Rule Breaker, we get outright told this fact?

How about B rank Blasted Tree? In the novel, Kairi wastes a Command Seal teleporting Mordred the hell out of there. In the anime, to raise her defense as much as possible so she doesn't die, and still it did some damage. The same Mordred with A rank Endurance like Heracles.

Edit: Here is the specific bit. Caules intends to use his Command Spell to Empower Fran and make sure she kills Mordred.

But Kairi uses his to teleport Mordred out of the area of attack. As the narration says, the command spell bent space so the attack would still hit Mordred so that Caules order was followed, but all of the mana was spent doing that and it didn't make Blasted Tree any stronger. On top of that, Kairi mentions that the attack not only homed on her, it tried to drag her back to the center, most likely to take the full power of the attack, but it obviously failed. Despite this, Mordred took very severe injuries. Further implied when Saber mentions Kairi could have used his Command Seal sooner, or Caules that if he had used his sooner or Kairi had taken more time, he could have succeeded.

But despite not taking the full brunt, Mordred still got hit pretty damn hard. MEANWHILE, Heracles doesn't even get tickled by being near the epicenter of the explosion of a stronger NP. Nah fam, this ain't it.
 
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Paul_Frank said:
Herc surviving an A rank Broken Phantasm (Caladbolg) blowing up on him
Click to expand...
Except he didn't. In a interview, Nasu said Herc actually lost a life there, he just regenerated so fast they thought he tanked it. He did intercept it tho, but remember Hercules is stronger than his dura, and Caladbolg has dura negation.
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
Except he didn't. In a interview, Nasu said Herc actually lost a life there, he just regenerated so fast they thought he tanked it. He did intercept it tho, but remember Hercules is stronger than his dura, and Caladbolg has dura negation.
Click to expand...
That interview quote was showing the difference between the VN and Anime iirc
 
No no, you got it wrong, Crim.

Herc intercepts it and takes no damage in the VN. He doesn't as he is still regenerating and loses another life in the anime. My point is that Caladbolg still explodes when Herk intercepts it in the VN, and he's near the epicenter, yet takes no damage.

This is from the Q&A:
Oh, that. In the original work it was like "Even though up until then none of the attacks had been worth dodging, this one would have been fatal, so Berserker counters → the resulting explosion from the Noble Phantasm is devastating." Yet in the anime version it was handled as "Berserker could not respond to it due to a severe injury from Saber → losing one of his lives, and regenerates," which may be something to think about. In all he lost 2 lives because of it.
Click to expand...
Which you can find here. The issue is, that means Herk scales to something that can one shit him, which is... I don't know what to tell you, that just sounds nonsensical.
 
For the blasted tree example, I'll note, Fran was also boosted with a seal, so the feat in general is kinda eh

Herc would scale AP wise for matching and clashing against Caladbolg, which would have been a kill if it hit, which makes sense given the whole "twisting space" part of it

Either way, besides the Caladbolg thing, there's still downscaling from Morgan, since Herc "survives" this. Downscaling from Caliburn which it just seems downscales from Excalibur which killed 7 times when put inside him or whatever. The Lion King thing, I'm pretty sure there was some stuff back in Shimosa as well, the storm thing from Ishtar above etc. These all being supporting things for tier 6 as opposed to just 7.
 
Right, yeah. In the end, he still didn't tank it tho.


also i like how apperently Takeuchi didn't know about that lol
 
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