Narutoverse Scaling: Kazekage Rescue Mission - Pain's Assault arcs

[KingTempest]

What Arc is this again and what do the relevant characters physically scale to (meaning their durability and striking strength)?

Beginning of shippuden through Pain.
Low tiers City Level+, Mid through high mountain.

His dura would be at least the same as his striking strength because of Newtons 3rd law. If you have a 7-A punch then your arm needs to have 7-A durability or else it would break.

Newton's third law is some of the stupidest things to use in a verse where people enhance their strength with energy more often than they enhance dura.
Sakura enhances her strength to the maximum levels possible for her. If she did that with dura it would be crazy, but she doesn't. The chakra is taking all the impact, not them.
Please look over Newton's law for enhancements.

Brilliant and exhilarating.

I can't name 15 Naruto inverse durability feats for the entire series off the top of my head, wow.

 

[Damage3245]

@KingTempest; I don't think the low tiers should be scaling to City level+.

We have a larger number of lower level calcs to use for scaling the low tiers, without having to scale everybody to Kisame's Ninjutsu feat.

 

[KingTempest]

@KingTempest; I don't think the low tiers should be scaling to City level+.

We have a larger number of lower level calcs to use for scaling the low tiers, without having to scale everybody to Kisame's Ninjutsu feat.

Understood, I guess that's where we should continue from now on I'm assuming

 

[Deako97]

I thought city level are applicable to only those that are kage level ninja like i dont see anyone lower than kage level being city level

Amd since kage level is a top tier not a low tier so the scaling should be lower for the lower tiers

 

[Damage3245]

Some calcs that are currently being used and coule be used:

Naruto's first Rasenshuriken: 1.41 Kilotons (Small Town level)

Jugo's AP: 5.43 Kilotons (Small Town level+)

KN4 Naruto's AP: 2.04 Megatons (Small City level)

Sage Mode Jiraiya's AP: 18.40 Megatons (City level) (Making base Jiraiya's AP with the massive Rasengan to be 1.84 Megatons (Small City level), I guess?)

We could scale Jiraiya and Orochimaru to be Small City level, using the KN4 calc and the Sage Mode Jiraiya calc as a basis.

Kakuzu was mostly intact after fully being hit by the Small Town level calc - he was immobilized because of the massive internal damage the Rasenshuriken did. And some characters were able to harm Kakuzu.

 

[Metalija]

Again the normal kunai damage level depends on the physical strength of the user. Itachi is physcially stronger than kid sasuke therefore he can throw faster and harder

Thats my point. The kunai damage scales to the physical AP of the user, not way below it like you originaly claimed.

 

[KingTempest]

Some calcs that are currently being used and coule be used:

Naruto's first Rasenshuriken: 1.41 Kilotons (Small Town level)

Jugo's AP: 5.43 Kilotons (Small Town level+)

KN4 Naruto's AP: 2.04 Megatons (Small City level)

Sage Mode Jiraiya's AP: 18.40 Megatons (City level) (Making base Jiraiya's AP with the massive Rasengan to be 1.84 Megatons (Small City level), I guess?)

We could scale Jiraiya and Orochimaru to be Small City level, using the KN4 calc and the Sage Mode Jiraiya calc as a basis.

Kakuzu was mostly intact after fully being hit by the Small Town level calc - he was immobilized because of the massive internal damage the Rasenshuriken did. And some characters were able to harm Kakuzu.

So low tiers scale to the rasenshuriken, so max small town (that says a lot for the town level part 1 characters).
Mid tier Small city
High tier city
God tier mountain?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Some calcs that are currently being used and coule be used:

Naruto's first Rasenshuriken: 1.41 Kilotons (Small Town level)

Jugo's AP: 5.43 Kilotons (Small Town level+)

KN4 Naruto's AP: 2.04 Megatons (Small City level)

Sage Mode Jiraiya's AP: 18.40 Megatons (City level) (Making base Jiraiya's AP with the massive Rasengan to be 1.84 Megatons (Small City level), I guess?)

We could scale Jiraiya and Orochimaru to be Small City level, using the KN4 calc and the Sage Mode Jiraiya calc as a basis.

Kakuzu was mostly intact after fully being hit by the Small Town level calc - he was immobilized because of the massive internal damage the Rasenshuriken did. And some characters were able to harm Kakuzu.

Could we still scale some characters to this calc?
KN0 Naruto's Attack Potency 3.42 Kilotons (Small Town level+)

 

[Metalija]

Making base Jiraiya's AP with the massive Rasengan to be 1.84 Megatons (Small City level), I guess

That would be with a massive rasengan though. What would the AP of his normal jutsu be?

 

[Damage3245]

@Metalija; lower than that, but I wouldn't assume to an enormous degree. Small City level starts at just 1 Megaton.

 

[KingTempest]

Thats my point. The kunai damage scales to the physical AP of the user, not way below it like you originaly claimed.

Take into consideration the fact that Naruto thought that regular kunai would be good enough against villains w/out wasting time running chakra through weapons since they were already sharp... and Naruto with a wind enhanced bladed weapon couldn't even throw it through a tree... while Asuma with a sharp ass chakra enhanced weapon could send it through stone.
You now see that these people are semi fodder.

 

[Damage3245]

@KingTempest; it's pretty telling that Naruto throwing a kunai that's specially enhanced to use his chakra... can't even throw it through a tree.

That is amusing.

That's further evidence that in terms of physical stats / striking strength, Naruto characters are low tier.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Take into consideration the fact that Naruto thought that regular kunai would be good enough against villains w/out wasting time running chakra through weapons since they were already sharp... and Naruto with a wind enhanced bladed weapon couldn't even throw it through a tree... while Asuma with a sharp ass chakra enhanced weapon could send it through stone.
You now see that these people are semi fodder.

Technically, Asuma was also using a Wind enhanced bladed weapon the only difference is he's more proficient in its use compared to Naruto

 

[KingTempest]

Not even including the fact that Naruto had to put so much effort just to put a little bit of chakra into a kunai that's meant to enhance his chakra, even though the fandom assumes that they do it regularly for all parts of their body.

Everybody who thinks these people casually enhance dura and AP with chakra and are trying to scale random jutsu ahem Rain Tiger At Will ahem to their Striking Strength all because they both use chakra, please look and see how wrong you are.

Sakura has some of the strongest striking strength in the series via flowing chakra into her fist, and what people are saying is easy for all shinobi is what Kakashi says is TALENT.

Technically, Asuma was also using a Wind enhanced bladed weapon the only difference is he's more proficient in its use compared to Naruto

True, but Naruto should be throwing these kunai through trees even without chakra. Also, it's Asuma, the most skilled person in Konoha in Close-Arm Combat.

Naruto was actually surprised that he could throw it through a tree. A bladed weapon that's enhanced by someone with the most reserves in the series couldn't even go an inch through a tree, and he's surprised that Asuma could send it through a tree and into stone (after seeing Kakashi, Zabuza, Haku, Gaara, Sasuke, Sasori, Deidara, Itachi, Jiraiya, Tsunade, all of that). That says a lot.

 

[KingTempest]

No wonder why Rasenshuriken is so strong, it's a bunch of blades

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

.

Isn't it obvious? Base Part II Naruto sucks even in his own verse

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

No wonder why Rasenshuriken is so strong, it's a bunch of blades

Microscopic Toothpicks

 

[KingTempest]

Isn't it obvious? Base Part II Naruto sucks even in his own verse

KN4 the most durable form of Naruto since he could take a sword from Orochimaru while every other form of Naruto gets bullied by bladed weapons and can't even throw a cutting enhanced sharp weapon through a regular tree, his weak ass.

 

[M3X_2.0]

10-A Naruto then?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Actually, can you guys drop this bullshit and actually focus? Forget sharp attacks or Rasenshuriken, focus on the scaling

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, why would anyone scale to the Rasenshuriken calc when base Naruto could swap hands with Kabuto, who scales to P1 Kakashi, who scales above P1 KN0 Naruto’s Low 7-C+ calc?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

As if this godforsaken thread needed more derailment lol.

 

[BlastX]

People disagreed with that I think

Still Rasenshuriken scaling lower than Kid Vermilion Naruto is dumb

 

[BlastX]

This CRT goes on circles or dead ends

There's song that represents it I'm sure.

 

[KingTempest]

Naruto is the only shinobi that can surpass the Fourth Hokage, that includes Konoha Summit Orochimaru, Jiraiya, Tsunade, The Third Hokage, everyone Kakashi knows. 10-A Naruto, 10-A Minato.

Actually, can you guys drop this bullshit and actually focus? Forget sharp attacks or Rasenshuriken, focus on the scaling

@M3X we accidentally branched into bladed weapons, but the main issue was talking about how shinobi enhance their dura and AP and such. The kunai and tree BS was showing that they don't have crazy ass Striking Strength and such.

What I got from the mini derailment, scaling with chakra is very ehh, and each feat needs to be looked upon. My Sakura example

Newton's third law is some of the stupidest things to use in a verse where people enhance their strength with energy more often than they enhance dura.
Sakura enhances her strength to the maximum levels possible for her. If she did that with dura it would be crazy, but she doesn't. The chakra is taking all the impact, not them.
Please look over Newton's law for enhancements.

I can't name 15 Naruto inverse durability feats for the entire series off the top of my head, wow.

It was from a mini debate w/ Omimi, These AP = Dura feats need to be looked over and considered when chakra enhancements comes to play.

 

[Metalija]

Everybody who thinks these people casually enhance dura and AP with chakra

Because they do. Even Rock Lee does it.
http://www.**********.com/naruto/36/14 Read the bottom right panel.

Also in some novel (I don't remember which one) they litteraly say that when shinobi are about to fight they flex their chakra and go into "battle mode".

 

[KingTempest]

Because they do. Even Rock Lee does it.
http://www.**********.com/naruto/36/14 Read the bottom right panel.

Also in some novel (I don't remember which one) they litteraly say that when shinobi are about to fight they flex their chakra and go into "battle mode".

Rock Lee is a pure taijutsu fighter, we get confirmation that in taijutsu it's rare that shinobi enhance their strength with chakra. Even with the chart that uses Rock Lee as an example, they don't even show chakra being used, just stamina.

And barely any of the novels are written by Kishimoto, so even though they're canon, they shouldn't be taken at face value unless they're backed up by the manga (which it's contradicted by).

 

[Damage3245]

@Metalija; this is the officially translated version of that page by the way. It's a bit different.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Inconsistencies with sharp blades are common in fiction, even more in Naruto - where Kishimoto and Kodachi still think the series is about ninjas and not a My Hero Academia with Naruto's name.

 

[M3X_2.0]

And yeah, only some characters should scale to the 7-B+ calc, like Kakashi for example. We can use the Small Town level+ rating from Part 1 to scale Base Naruto.

 

[KingTempest]

That was not inconsistency, that was the first time we get a clear showing of bladed weapons real effects in the series. Even when they practice Shurikenjutsu, the kunai and shuriken don't even go halfway through the board (this is Itachi btw, consistent with over here as a reanimation where he's not sick and can't throw through a summoning's eyes).

 

[M3X_2.0]

Dude, fine. The verse will not be downgraded to kunai level or something, drop this

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Dude, fine. The verse will not be downgraded to kunai level or something, drop this

Nah, let's give everyone 9-C physicals. It's totally consistent.

 

[KingTempest]

Fine, I'll drop it, but we still have to consider these people's physicals.

Kabuto was stated to be comparable to Kakashi and Kabuto w/ chakra enhanced stomach got hurt by a kid Naruto's rasengan, like... come on now.

 

[M3X_2.0]

We are going to consider their physicals with Tier 7 calcs, not kunai feats

 

[Metalija]

Rock Lee is a pure taijutsu fighter, we get confirmation that in taijutsu it's rare that shinobi enhance their strength with chakra. Even with the chart that uses Rock Lee as an example, they don't even show chakra being used, just stamina.

Its true that taijutsu doesn't spend your chakra supply when you punch, however there is still chakra present in your arm. How much you put it into your arm can also affect your AP. The instance where taijutsu would actually drain you chakra is in the case of Sakura who not only puts a huge amount of chakra into her fist, but also releases it all at once at the moment of impact, which requries great chakra control.

 

[M3X_2.0]

This thread is a cancer, Omimi and Metalija discussing unrelated things to the scaling and you, Tempest, giving them attention. This thread is for scaling, not for scaling considering kunai or shuriken, or bullshits like that.

@Damage3245 if you see this reply, close this thread, because me, UchihaSlayer69 and Jvando are planning a new one with a scaling already done. Then we can completely focus on the scaling and dimiss any unrelated subject.

 

[M3X_2.0]

This thread has 15 pages and we DID NOTHING.

 

[Damage3245]

This thread should probably remain open until the other thread is ready to be posted.

To be honest this is why I wanted us to start with something easier like revising the verse's Lifting Strength ratings instead of just jumping straight in with overhauling the AP/Striking Strength/Durability of the verse.

Could we not move on to something like that first?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I'll notify you when I have everything