Naruto's lightspeed statements and their consistency

[Xulrev]

Is that based on Flashy Flash?? Whom we misunderstand as Speed of Light Flash?

 

[Jvando]

Could keep up with Madara who was able to react to Tsuande while she was in Mabui's LS teleportation technique

 

[Kepekley23]

Is that based on Flashy Flash?? Whom we misunderstand as Speed of Light Flash?

Murata stated that Geryunganshoop can toss rocks at close to the speed of light, and that Saitama saw such a thing as a bad joke at best

 

[Damage3245]

Could keep up with Madara who was able to react to Tsuande while she was in Mabui's LS teleportation technique

Is that the only feat? Because I consider that one at least to be debateable.

 

[Rocker1189]

Is that the only feat? Because I consider that one at least to be debateable.

He and bee blitz Kisame before he could form a hand seal.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay, that's a decent feat (technically speaking they blitzed a White Zetsu disguised as Kisame but whatever). But how do we know how fast that is exactly?

 

[Rocker1189]

Okay, that's a decent feat (technically speaking they blitzed a White Zetsu disguised as Kisame but whatever). But how do we know how fast that is exactly?

Point is the completely blitz a MHS+ character and he did not even notice them move till he was dead.

 

[Rocker1189]

Ay also dodged Jugo's beam at point blank range without anyone notice him move again. And completely outpaced Sasuke MS. Allowing him to "dodge" amaterasu. Sasuke in just 3 tomoe was able to outpace a sick Itachi's eyesight.

 

[Jvando]

Consistency of the claims within the verse itself also matters.

I'm staying neutral on this

However if we had someone dodge a stated lightspeed attack then have someone else relative to them stated to be stated to be near lightspeed then in any other verse that'd probably be accepted without argument.

Additionally, I don't see how that feat is debatable. My catapult analogy and my reply to you earlier should have assuaged your doubts, but if you do have counter arguments then I'll try to respond to them.

Also to answer this question, you can clearly see that A does not have his Lightning Chakra Cloak on his body as he attacks Muu.

Two: It transports something at LS...no one said Tsunade had to kick at LS. While traveling under the effects of the Jutsu, she simply lashed out a kick at Madara. Simple. That's like assuming the Raikage is attacking someone in his base form speed even when he has his Lightning cloak around him. Like if I strapped someone to a catapult and (ignoring air resistance and whatnot) launched them at someone and they lashed out with a kick right before arriving at their target, would you actually claim they were attacking at their "base speed"? Quite clearly the catapult transfers the person to its intended target (the other person) at high speed but (again, no air resistance) but when they lash out with a kick, they are still traveling at the speed at which the catapult was launched.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

I don't know why, but I got the impression that Naruto is quite a bullied series in this site based on the posts here. Lmao.

 

[Jvando]

Ay also dodged Jugo's beam at point blank range without anyone notice him move again. And completely outpaced Sasuke MS. Allowing him to "dodge" amaterasu. Sasuke in just 3 tomoe was able to outpace a sick Itachi's eyesight.

 

[Damage3245]

@JohnHendrix212; depending on who you ask you might find people agreeing with you or people who disagree and say that Naruto has been treated too well.

@Rocker1189; blitzing an MHS+ character is impressive, but you don't have to be over 70 times faster than them to blitz them, right?

@Jvando; I'll get into the Madara lightspeed reaction bit as soon as I get home from work, since that currently seems to be the crux of the issue.

 

[Rocker1189]

Also Ay was sure he could react to the instantaneous teleportaton of Minato's where he literally threw like 20 kunai in a wide area. This is the same Minato he knows reacted to him at close range.

 

[Damage3245]

Wouldn't that just mean he thinks he would be capable of moving within an area (let's say at least a few dozen meters across) the moment that he saw Minato appear?

Without some kind of calc proving that to be fast, that's not a good gauge for estimating Ay's speed.

After all, he's not reacting to the teleportation itself but just responding to him seeing where Minato will be.

 

[Rocker1189]

Wouldn't that just mean he thinks he would be capable of moving within an area (let's say at least a few dozen meters across) the moment that he saw Minato appear?
Without some kind of calc proving that to be fast, that's not a good gauge for estimating Ay's speed.

After all, he's not reacting to the teleportation itself but just responding to him seeing where Minato will be.

No because Minat's reaction speed is insane as we know, he would have to literally see the flash of minato appearing and then charge at the right kunai before minato notices, this would require near intantaneous movement at a close range or Minato would just blink away again.

 

[Damage3245]

Also, this whole 'Madara reacts to Tsunade & Raikage at lightspeed' is one of the reasons why a discussion rule was added in the first place about Naruto characters and lightspeed.

Gemmysaur had this say in a past thread about it:

> Oh look, another one of those threads.

> Anyways, it has been agreed upon time and time again, not just by several staff but by several members as well that Tsunade and Ay were able to attack Madara because he was blinded by the flash.

> Also, think about it. It was specifically noted to be travel, not actual teleportation (because otherwise, noting it to be at the speed of light is pointless). That said, you can't travel in a straight line from point A to point B without bumping into something, so it's logical that the transporation goes upward and then down, in an arc. Then, we see here that they are moving horizontally, given the way Ay's aura is drawn.

> Had they struck immediately while still moving, their attack would logically come from above, not sideways.

Reppuzan had this to say:

> No. As I've stated dozens of times before, a far more logical explanation was for them to have reacted to Tsunade and A after the teleportation while they were blinded by the flash. The Heavenly Transfer technique is designed to transport objects in the orientation they arrived in. There's little chance for Tsunade and A to have positioned themselves for an attack mid-flight, especially when such a feat contradicts all of their other feats.

So we already have the precedent / consensus in the past for rejecting this. Nothing new seems to have been presented for it.

 

[Rocker1189]

Also, this whole 'Madara reacts to Tsunade & Raikage at lightspeed' is one of the reasons why a discussion rule was added in the first place about Naruto characters and lightspeed.
Gemmysaur had this say in a past thread about it:

> Oh look, another one of those threads.

> Anyways, it has been agreed upon time and time again, not just by several staff but by several members as well that Tsunade and Ay were able to attack Madara because he was blinded by the flash.

> Also, think about it. It was specifically noted to be travel, not actual teleportation (because otherwise, noting it to be at the speed of light is pointless). That said, you can't travel in a straight line from point A to point B without bumping into something, so it's logical that the transporation goes upward and then down, in an arc. Then, we see here that they are moving horizontally, given the way Ay's aura is drawn.

> Had they struck immediately while still moving, their attack would logically come from above, not sideways.

Reppuzan had this to say:

> No. As I've stated dozens of times before, a far more logical explanation was for them to have reacted to Tsunade and A after the teleportation while they were blinded by the flash. The Heavenly Transfer technique is designed to transport objects in the orientation they arrived in. There's little chance for Tsunade and A to have positioned themselves for an attack mid-flight, especially when such a feat contradicts all of their other feats.

So we already have the precedent / consensus in the past for rejecting this. Nothing new seems to have been presented for it.

The difference between then and now is that we have gathered multiple light speed feats to show why it is consistent. both of these use absolutely random ways to try to justify downplaying Naruto.

We have literally countered the 2nd argument like 10 times now. Honestly you could not make your own argument so you went to find other super old ones. Needless to say I disagree massively based on what is shwon in the manga.

 

[Damage3245]

@Rocker1189; I went to find the arguments for why it was rejected in the first place. Are you saying that is a bad thing?

To my knowledge that is only one lightspeed attack that is definitely accepted right now, and that's Madara's Light Fang.

A couple of databook statements for other lightspeed attacks aren't strong arguments to support the notion that Madara reacted to Tsunade travelling at lightspeed when it has been disputed and rejected multiple times in the past.

 

[Jvando]

I would love to see where Madara was blinded by the flash as claimed because his eyes are legit wide open when the "flash" descends.

How is this contradicted? They are transported and Tsunade/Ay launch out attacks before arriving at their target. "Positioning themselves"? I doubt they'd have to do much to launch a kick and a punch.


Also, all we know about the technique is that when being transferred, the object is engulfed in light and moves to any desired destination through a narrow beam. Destination can also be considered a "coordinate" as evidenced by when Aoi stated he had relayed their coordinates (if I'm reading that correctly).

Again, if they had landed before attacking, then A would have used his lightning cloak to attack like he does literally every time before he attacks. We don't see that. Not sure if this was brought up in hat last thread.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker1189; I went to find the arguments for why it was rejected in the first place. Are you saying that is a bad thing?

loool dude as if that was all you went to do please dont even try that. with your final comment it is obvious that you did so to throw it under "oh man its been rejected before no new arguments hurr durr".

 

[Rocker1189]

A couple of databook statements for other lightspeed attacks aren't strong arguments to support the notion that Madara reacted to Tsunade travelling at lightspeed when it has been disputed and rejected multiple times in the past.

a couple is ann understatement

disputed and rejected but not unproven nor debunked and the first one is complete fanfiction the fact you posted that as legit is very telling.

Oh not to mention that they were indeed tranvelling in a straight line to Madara and Mu as seen in the panel before they react to them coming in view.

 

[The_Causality]

Guys, just wait the opinion of other staff members l, the current discussion will go nowhere if the partisan and the opponent just repeat the same argument. At this rate, the debate will continue until the universe' heat

 

[Rocker1189]

they wont stop until they have exhausted all and every argument under the sun including making up random bits for the manga apparently like "madara was blinded"

 

[Damage3245]

> a couple is ann understatement

Are you sure? The whole OP seems to be resting on just three things:

• Raikage's Lariat being stated to be near-lightspeed (in the databook).

• Mifune's slash being stated to be lightspeed (in the databook).

• Madara reacting to Mabui's teleportation jutsu.

When I asked what the feats were to support the first statement, the third bit was mentioned.

And when asked what was new about the third bit for it to be true, I was told that 'multiple lightspeed feats' had been gathered.

If there are 'multiple lightspeed feats' that aren't those three things, I'd like to know them.

 

[MostPowerfull]

Currently, this topic has only a lot of useless point and arguments that do not add up to anything.

No one here can deny the consistency it has. And neither can deny the feat. The topic already has more than 300 comments and nobody refuted or brought any interesting point against the feat.

Close the thread.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't know why, but I got the impression that Naruto is quite a bullied series in this site based on the posts here. Lmao.

Yeah, despite the fact that we rank it higher than both the OBD and even ScrewAttack, we clearly hate the series enough to downgrade it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah, despite the fact that we rank it higher than both the OBD and even ScrewAttack, we clearly hate the series enough to downgrade it.

We don't rate them as MFTL+ Solar System busters though, so its obvious that the site lowballs and hates the franchise.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Not really. Screwattack had them in the FTL+ range, though they did completely ignore some good feats.

 

[Andytrenom]

I think very few places will consider giving someone planet level stats based of moon creating/moving feats

 

[Kepekley23]

We don't rate them as MFTL+ Solar System busters though, so its obvious that the site lowballs and hates the franchise.

Solar System is a digusting lowball man. Kaguya is clearly Universal+

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Yeah, despite the fact that we rank it higher than both the OBD and even ScrewAttack, we clearly hate the series enough to downgrade it.

To be fair, OBD profiles are pretty outdated, and ScrewAttack is never a trustworthy site to browse for VSbattling information.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Screwattack had Naruto at 1/3rd lightspeed for his combat speed and had his reaction speed be baseline SoL.

 

[Rocker1189]

ok before this becomes memes can we decide something? I personally dont want to spend multiple threads on it.

 

[Js250476]

Also bringing up how other sites treat Naruto isn't relevant here

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I think very few places will consider giving someone planet level stats based of moon creating/moving feats

Thats not what gives them their Planet Level stat though.

 

[Js250476]

Moon creating is we're scaling him to Hagoromo's feat

 

[Andytrenom]

Oh, I thought it did

 

[Damage3245]

ok before this becomes memes can we decide something? I personally dont want to spend multiple threads on it.

Given that these are pretty controversial proposals being made that would drastically change the ratings for the verse, more discussion on it should be expected.

Evidence was posted earlier suggesting that Mifune's attack is not particularly faster than any other barrages of attacks launched at the 10-Tails.

If Mifune's slash isn't lightspeed, then the databook description calling it lightspeed is basically hyperbole which reflects poorly on all of the arguments that depend on the databook descriptions.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

The AP feat they scale to is irrelevant, this thread is to determine whether or not the Lightspeed statements are useable.

 

[Xulrev]

I didnt even know there was a discussion rule against this.

Why is that being ignored, damage brought up the precedent. No new information has come out to support the topic since then. This shouldn't have even been engaged if it's a rule as damage posits.