Naruto's lightspeed statements and their consistency

[Gogogozoom7]

Ah yes,quite the explanation.I must admit defeat in the face of such.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

The statement says "almost at the speed of light" though I'm not sure if that changes anything.

 

[Gogogozoom7]

Geryuganshoop's attacks were also stated to be near light speed.It got an atleast,which means above baseline to an unknown degree,but it still counts as baseline in that case.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

It seems like Mabui's Lightspeed Teleportation feat has been accepted. So would it be appropriate to make a calc for it?

 

[Gogogozoom7]

We already know that Mabui moves things at lightspeeds with her teleportation.No need for a calc,I presume we'll just assume it's baseline.

 

[Rocker1189]

for madara reacting to it.

 

[Damage3245]

I want to note that some people up above were saying that Mu would have been able to sense and react to base Ay due to being a sensor-type ninja, and therefore Ay must have been attacking at lightspeed - but Kabuto was possessing Mu at the time and may not have had his sensor ability active.

 

[OrangeberrySama]

@IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 Is correct in regards to Light Fang. Light Fang is stated to be lightspeed and is supposedly "impossible to dodge", which completely contradicts the idea of lower tiers being anywhere lightspeed. This is from the same Databook half these arguements rely on and is stated later on in the series, which gives it more precedence.

There's other points as well but the above is the nail in the coffin.

 

[Rocker1189]

I want to note that some people up above were saying that Mu would have been able to sense and react to base Ay due to being a sensor-type ninja, and therefore Ay must have been attacking at lightspeed - but Kabuto was possessing Mu at the time and may not have had his sensor ability active.

Why on earth would Kabuto not use a sensor's ability? what? Kabutoo is a genius stragist maybe not quite fighter but strategist, not using a sensors ability to sense the entire battlefield is a fundamental strategic mistake.

 

[Rocker1189]

@IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 Is correct in regards to Light Fang. Light Fang is stated to be lightspeed and is supposedly "impossible to dodge", which completely contradicts the idea of lower tiers being anywhere lightspeed. This is from the same Databook half these arguements rely on and is stated later on in the series, which gives it more precedence.
There's other points as well but the above is the nail in the coffin.

here comes the "impossible to dodge" bs argument.

for one in the image Naruto clearly dodges it.

For 2 for a fodder ninja it is indeed impossible to dodge, those are broad statements not some kind of specific to main character or even anyone shit.

1 question, does it say it is impossible for Naruto to dodge? Does it say that it is impossible for anyone to dodge. It says neither. Just impossible to dodge.

 

[Damage3245]

Why on earth would Kabuto not use a sensor's ability? what? Kabutoo is a genius stragist maybe not quite fighter but strategist, not using a sensors ability to sense the entire battlefield is a fundamental strategic mistake.

The ability has to be activated as the scene with Minato and Kurama later on confirms. So unless we have evidence to suggest that it is active, it should not be assumed to be active.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

In the Madara LF thread that got LS accepted, someone said that the translation could also be "impossible to block" as well.

 

[Rocker1189]

The ability has to be activated as the scene with Minato and Kurama later on confirms. So unless we have evidence to suggest that it is active, it should not be assumed to be active.

That literally does not matter there is no reason for Kabuto not to activate it in a war. regardless of whether it needs to be shown active. He had plenty of time off screen to do it. Not that it matters it is a nitpicky argument. As most of your arguments are.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Was the ability ever deactivated?

 

[Damage3245]

@Rocker1189; so we have no indication that the ability is active in other words.

So there is no cause to use that bit of reasoning of defend the idea that Ay attacked him at lightspeed.

 

[OrangeberrySama]

@Rocker1189 No, he dodges Madara's head swing. Exactly that, it just states "impossible to dodge" a general statement that would apply to everyone in the context of the verse - it doesn't need to specify, it's not up for interpretation. If someone could dodge it, it wouldn't be impossible to dodge.

For the record, you can't argue "hyperbole" because either way, the statement implies lightspeed is impressive for the verse at that time. It would be illogical for Light Fang to receive such hype if relative fodder were approaching and even surpassing such speeds several arcs ago.

Next.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker1189; so we have no indication that the ability is active in other words.
So there is no cause to use that bit of reasoning of defend the idea that Ay attacked him at lightspeed.

http://*****************/read-online/Naruto-chapter-525-page-8.html Here we see Mu is controlled by Kabuto. http://*****************/read-online/Naruto-chapter-525-page-10.html here we see him use the sensing technique. His sensing is on and at no time is it turned off.

 

[Damage3245]

@Rocker1189; Mu was controlled by Kabuto briefly in order to summon the other Kage. He was only using his sensing after Kabuto was no longer controlling him.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker1189 No, he dodges Madara's head swing. Exactly that, it just states "impossible to dodge" a general statement that would apply to everyone in the context of the verse - it doesn't need to specify, it's not up for interpretation. If someone could dodge it, it wouldn't be impossible to dodge.
For the record, you can't argue "hyperbole" because either way, the statement implies lightspeed is impressive for the verse at that time. It would be illogical for Light Fang to receive such hype if relative fodder were approaching and even surpassing such speeds several arcs ago.

Next.

it cuts all things with the speed of light, making it impossible for the enemy to evade even one swing.

Let us beak this down shall we since you wsnt to go here with that "Next" condescending attitude. It specifically says that is cuts all things. A pinpoint laser is not cutting.

cut meaning:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=cut+meaning

At the speed of light. Obviously this is the speed of the cut.

making it impossible to evade one swing

swing being the operative term which is what is impossible to dodge. Even if you believe that Naruto did not evade the laser itself he still evade the swing itself as everyone agrees. In other words it is not impossible for at the very least Naruto to evade the light speed swing.

No one is arguing hyperbole.

Next.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker1189; Mu was controlled by Kabuto briefly in order to summon the other Kage. He was only using his sensing after Kabuto was no longer controlling him.

The sensing was never turned off at any point. Unless you have proof of that. In which case be my guest.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll have to take a look back through the chapters.

But on a related note, what even is base Kabuto's reaction speed at this point? Maybe base Ay's speed was too fast for him to react to even with the potential benefits of sensory mode which may or may not have been active.

 

[Antvasima]

I was asked to comment here, but I am already extremely busy, and am not sure whether or not I should go with IMade's interpretation.

It is probably best if you ask some of the other staff members listed in the Naruto (The Universe) page to help out.

 

[Rocker1189]

I'll have to take a look back through the chapters.
But on a related note, what even is base Kabuto's reaction speed at this point? Maybe base Ay's speed was too fast for him to react to even with the potential benefits of sensory mode which may or may not have been active.

????????

This is really next level nit picking. This Kabuto is able to react to Sasuke and itachi's attacks he also has Oorochimaru's cells and dragon sage mode on top of that. And he use 3rd A's body not as well as the 3rd himself but well enough to be able to fight with it while using the lightning cloak. His reactions should be on par with the kage.

 

[Damage3245]

Wasn't the 3rd Raikage just on automatic kill mode?

 

[Rocker1189]

Wasn't the 3rd Raikage just on automatic kill mode?

no?

 

[Damage3245]

My bad, I was thinking of earlier in the fight where the Raikage was just fighting on automatic. I do remember that Kabuto took control at one point.

 

[OrangeberrySama]

@Rocker1189 Even if you were correct, that still absolutely disproves what is being pushed in this thread. Light Fang is stated to be "impossible to evade" because it's lightspeed, implying said speed is impressive in the context of a fight between God tiers.

That directly contradicts lower tier characters being anywhere near lightspeed. Simple.

Also, I never said anyone was arguing for "hurr durr hyperbole" I just made sure to address that potential rebuttal to convey that there is no way around this arguement.

 

[Damage3245]

> Yes. Exactly what you read. I did not understand when you said he is fodder and on the last arc. There is nothing that contradicts this. The God Tier is currently being scaled to someone with Mach 6800 feats that is fodder, irrelevant in the Tier system on the reverse. There is no inconsistency in this.

Out of curiosity was there a CRT made for scaling everyone to Shino's feat? I didn't see one linked on the change made to Shino's profile a couple weeks ago.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker1189 Even if you were correct, that still absolutely disproves what is being pushed in this thread. Light Fang is stated to be "impossible to evade" because it's lightspeed, implying said speed is impressive in the context of a fight between God tiers.
That directly contradicts lower tier characters being anywhere near lightspeed. Simple.

Also, I never said anyone was arguing for "hurr durr hyperbole" I just made sure to address that potential rebuttal to convey that there is no way around this arguement.

No it does not, for one it seems you still cant get that most people that scale would be relativistic if these are accepted not light speed.

For 2 the fact that Naruto dodges it tells you it clearly does not apply to everyone in the verse obviously the average ninja would get completely blitzed by it like no tmrw luckily the people getting scaled of of this are S class tier opponents in the verse and god tiers. Again, the raikage and kages and madara would simply be getting relativistic speeds from this depending on calcs. It is only the God tiers that are possibly getting Light speed. And possibly mifune for having a specific light speed statement.

Yes I know.

 

[OrangeberrySama]

@Rocker1189 You act as if Relativistic and Lightspeed have a significant gap between the 2 in the first place. Based on what is said in the OP, Sasuke would be Relativistic+ based on Mifune's attack and Raikage would be Relativistic+ also. That's at least more than 50% lightspeed.

Furthermore, Naruto "dodging" Light Fang is calced as low as Relativistic. So, even highballing the God tiers results in inconsistencies in scaling and blatant outliers for the lower tiers.

Again, even if you were correct, (you're not), it's evidently inconsistent and an outlier for Mid-High tiers being Relativistic+ when a God tiers best feat, (while highballed/wanked), is only Relativistic. Their next best feats are like MHS+, again, showing that none of this is consistent.

I could easily assert that Naruto aim-dodged Madara's assault anyways because it's the only possibility that doesn't contradict the statement made in the guidebook - "impossible to evade". Technically, Naruto didn't even evade it as his staff was broken and his hair was cut.

Furthermore, what's the point of stating something is "impossible to evade" if anyone relevant is capable of such?

The existence of Kirin is also another way in which "Relativistic+" Kage is severely contradicted.

 

[Xulrev]

So why is it that everyone in favor of this is absurdly willing to accept '[X] is the speed of light!!' as an argument due to consistency....

But is immediately using 'That's just hyperbole!' to dismiss every single claim of '[X] is undodgeable due to being so fast!!' as the counter claim, when it's the same verse and same characters making these claims? If we accept one, we must accept the other, which is where the contradiction comes into play. Kirin was undodgeable due to being lightning-speed, that's a point that's simply been handwaved by and large as such.

The double standards being showcased in this thread are a bit atrocious. IMade makes the most sense here, as does Cal.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker1189 You act as if Relativistic and Lightspeed have a significant gap between the 2 in the first place. Based on what is said in the OP, Sasuke would be Relativistic+ based on Mifune's attack and Raikage would be Relativistic+ also. That's at least more than 50% lightspeed.
Furthermore, Naruto "dodging" Light Fang is calced as low as Relativistic. So, even highballing the God tiers results in inconsistencies in scaling and blatant outliers for the lower tiers.

Again, even if you were correct, (you're not), it's evidently inconsistent and an outlier for Mid-High tiers being Relativistic+ when a God tiers best feat, (while highballed/wanked), is only Relativistic. Their next best feats are like MHS+, again, showing that none of this is consistent.

I could easily assert that Naruto aim-dodged Madara's assault anyways because it's the only possibility that doesn't contradict the statement made in the guidebook - "impossible to evade". Technically, Naruto didn't even evade it as his staff was broken and his hair was cut.

Furthermore, what's the point of stating something is "impossible to evade" if anyone relevant is capable of such?

The existence of Kirin is also another way in which "Relativistic+" Kage is severely contradicted.

I am going to do this one at a time.

Yeah it was discussed for them to be 50% relativistic but some people are saying that it could likely be 10% based on DDM's comment.

Sssuke never dodged or blocked Mifune's specific Issen he did block some Samurai which we would come to debate whether that should be classed the same as Mifune's however even when he did it would still come to likely low relativistic based on his distance and his arm movement.

It has also been calced at FTL not to mention what was calced was him dodging the laser point no tthe head wing which would be signnificantly higher. You are only looking for blatant outliers where there is none.

while highballed and wanked lol, yeah I know where you are going with this light speed is consistent no matter how much you try to assert highball and wank. Their next best feat has been calced at sub-relavistic we have several calcs that are not on pages right now.

To assert that is logically wrong, he moved relative to Madara's head swing. His head was not cut, his headband was dont try to play this "well he did not really evade it" crap you know full well that he did, this is wuite desperate from you.

To assert its speed? and to assert than an average ninja stands no chance of dodging it. it simply says impossible to evade not impossible for anyone to evade.

Again burst movespeed has nothing on long range movespeed. if you can didge light it does not mean you can dodge a light ray the size of a building. It depends on your speed and how far and for how long you can move at that speed. The same thing as travel speed =/= combat speed.

 

[Rocker1189]

So why is it that everyone in favor of this is absurdly willing to accept '[X] is the speed of light!!' as an argument due to consistency....
But is immediately using 'That's just hyperbole!' to dismiss every single claim of '[X] is undodgeable due to being so fast!!' as the counter claim, when it's the same verse and same characters making these claims? If we accept one, we must accept the other, which is where the contradiction comes into play. Kirin was undodgeable due to being lightning-speed, that's a point that's simply been handwaved by and large as such.

The double standards being showcased in this thread are a bit atrocious. IMade makes the most sense here, as does Cal.

which is where you miss out that no character that is slower than or as fast as characters during the Itachi vs Sasuke fight scale to this in anyway. In other words Kirin is completely unaffected. The only double standards shown are against Naruto and light speed statements.

 

[Mindovin]

Isn't there was a thread about explaining how ''evade'' is a mistranslation and it should be ''block''?

 

[Rocker1189]

Isn't there was a thread about explaining how evade is a mistranslation and it should be block?

wouldnt know I have not read it, but if so then even better for us.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Isn't there was a thread about explaining how evade is a mistranslation and it should be block?

Yes, it was brought up in the thread that accepted LF as lightspeed.

 

[Jvando]

Ha, I just though of even something more contradictory and stupid.

If the Raikage was lightspeed in the Gokage summit per the databook statement then what the hell was the goddamn point of needing Mabui to transport them to the battlefield?

The whole reason they needed Mabui was so they could get there as fast as possible, yet this guy is supposedly light speed according to the databook. So why not just go himself? And don't come at me with "he moves at shortburst speeds" which is blatantly not true as seen when he's fighting Sasuke and Naruto. Plus at lightspeed it would take a fraction of a second to reach Madara. He could've carried Tsunade there in a microsecond if he was lightspeed like the databook said. Further showing it's just a hyperbole.

Yeah, it just never makes sense. It's inconsistent and contradictory.

Cal also makes a good point that I didn't think of: You know...saying speed of light for multiple things downs tprove consistency of SoL but proves it's their go-to hyperbole.


Also, there's no debating Mabui's teleportation and trying to scale it's speed to Madara and Muu. That's not how the Jutsu works, it transfers the targets to another location at light speed. Tsunade kicking and the Raikage punching are done at their speed, not light speed like the Jutsu. The Jutsu just places them in another location at said speed, it doesn't amp their speed.

The first part: Even if you look at it logically, you realize that the amount of environmental obstacles he would have to go through to reach the battlefield makes this wholly unrealistic. You know how we see Ninja's constantly jumping off of trees? And traversing through otherwise inconsistent terrain? I get the feeling traveling to destinations at such high speed in such terrain would be quite the problem.

Two: It transports something at LS...no one said Tsunade had to kick at LS. While traveling under the effects of the Jutsu, she simply lashed out a kick at Madara. Simple. That's like assuming the Raikage is attacking someone in his base form speed even when he has his Lightning cloak around him. Like if I strapped someone to a catapult and (ignoring air resistance and whatnot) launched them at someone and they lashed out with a kick right before arriving at their target, would you actually claim they were attacking at their "base speed"? Quite clearly the catapult transfers the person to its intended target (the other person) at high speed but (again, no air resistance) but when they lash out with a kick, they are still traveling at the speed at which the catapult was launched.

 

[Kepekley23]

OPM was only accepted at baseline Relativistic.

Saw this while scrolling; just to set things straight, this is false. We accepted them at 50%.

 

[Qawsedf234]

We do?

 

[Damage3245]

So, what feats does the Raikage actually have to support his 'near-lightspeed' rating?

Because this proposal is at the very least 70 times higher than the current highest accepted speed calc in the verse. It's quite a leap even if a lot of people hear keep repeating that it isn't an outlier over and over.