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Naruto vs Ichigo- Who do you think was the better written protagonist?

DMUA said:
Goku: I want to fight the world's strongest warriors!
Luffy: I'm gonna be king of the pirates!

Naruto: I'm gonna be ninja president!

Ichigo: I want the strength to protect my friends.
Click to expand...
FTFY.

Ichigo wanting "just a normal life" is not accurate. Hell, the entire timeskip after the Winter War proved that Ichigo hated being powerless, and wanted his powers again, he wanted to run out of his classroom and slay hollows with his friends again.
 
I mean that's mainly because his friends weren't getting that normal life because there were still hollows to kill and people to stop from being eaten.

He was perfectly fine being a dad after he was done with the Yhwach ordeal, I mean, he turned down being soul king in favor of Inoue's honkers having a kid.
 
Personally, I always felt that Ichigo is the kind of character that would have been better in a shorter running manga. Then, again, Kubo's writing didn't help so, I could be way off there...
 
DMUA said:
Goku: I want to fight the world's strongest warriors!

Luffy: I'm gonna be king of the pirates!

Naruto: I'm gonna be ninja president!

Ichigo: I want me and my friends to be able to live a normal life.

everyone looks at Ichigo

Sounds of a strawberry being thrown through a window
Click to expand...
Your right one of these seems very off.
 
Yeah he kinda just sits his rear end on a chair all day and doesn't really do much.

And you know Ichigo had a life
 
Of ffs, i had and essay about why I don't like Naruto and questioning why people liked him but this god damn thing deleted all of it before I could post it. So f%*k it. In doing it like this:

IMO Naruto is trash and I hate him.
 
Now for my opinion. It all depends on what you are looking for in a main character.

What I like in a character is a true sense of humility and selflessness. A character that is calm and collected in serious moments. One who is intelligent and able to assess a situation and instantly come up with a plan of action. One who hides his own suffering through a jovial mask as to make the others around him feel just a little bitter safer, a little bit more confident that everything is going to be alright. Someone who has worked himself to the bone trying to overcome the obstacles that he needs to face. Someone who I can deeply relate and sympathize with during their trials and tribulations.

Both Ichigo and Naruto are not entirely this type of character.


I love Shonens. I grew up with them, but I do have things about the genre that I don't like. The thing I despise about Shonens the most are their main protagonist. I can't stand the character who is a complete idiot, except when they're fighting of course, and eats a shit-ton of food, and I can't stand a character that needs to be the "best".

Now, what does that mean for these two characters you might ask?

It means that they aren't my ideal character, but it doesn't mean that they have things that I don't like about them.

So if you were to ask me who is the better character: "Ichigo or Naruto?"

I'd have to go with Ichigo.

I think I should explain what I dislike about Naruto first. He's not consistent and he is full of shit.

To clarify, early in the beginning of Naruto, Naruto's past is explained, he's hated and ostracized by his entire village. The thing is, we never see this, more specifically, we never see him overcome his villages' innate prejudge against him through his own actions. We never see him walking down a road getting yelled out by strangers, we never see him be denied food at a restaurant because of who he is, we never get to see his suffering in the present time, only flashbacks. He becomes revered as a hero by his village after his defeat of Pein, but we never saw these same villagers insult or attack previously during the previous arcs. We never saw the effect his accomplishments had on his village, and how that changed their opinions on him.

And like I said, he's full shit. Naruto has a fight with Neji early in the series, and he wins and talk-no-jutsu'd Neji with a speech about how Destiny is bullshit and hard work can overcome those born with natural talent. Naruto is the one that said this. The son of a Hokage, the Godson of Jiraiya the Gallant one of the Legendary Sannin, the reincarnation of one of the sons of the Sage of Six Paths, the host of the most powerful tailed-beast. Neji was right, those who are destined to succeed will. You know who had no natural talent in Naruto? Rock Lee. And guess what he did? Nothing, and it is such a shame because he was a person who got off his ass and worked himself half to death to improve himself. Naruto is not the underdog that he was originally portayed to be, and why I vehemently disagree with the others above in saying that Naruto is a role model, Lee is the real role model.

Now on to why I prefer Ichigo.

Ichigo is a real human being. He's not trying to be the greatest ninja/hero/pirate or anything like that. He has what he wants in life and he makes sure he keeps it. He's not a saint, he just wants to live up to his name, one of the few lasting connections he has to the most important person in his life, his mother. And to make sure what happened to his mother never happens to those he cared about ever again. To make sure those he cares about get to live. And when those he cares about are in danger, he will go to any length to make sure nothing happens to them. He doesn't preach about surpassing the bounds of fate and destiny, none of that shit matters, at least not to him. He reacts to the situations around him, unsure of what the future holds for him, simply put, he's a teenager.

I find this immensely relatable. As a teenager myself, just about to enter my final year of high school, I'm unsure of the future, and that terrifies me. I'm plagued with infinite questions about if my life will work out in the way that I think I want. I just don't know. I doubt myself all the time.

When I see a character who is like me in every way except for the fact that he doesn't hesitate to do what he believes he needs to do, I find that amazing. Someone my age possessing such confidence is awe-inspiring for me.

I can't relate with Naruto in such a way, I don't have a dream to be the president or something, I couldn't care less about "being the best", I'm just a kid and seeing that there is a main character like me is refreshing.

So yeah, Ichigo all the way.
 
DMUA said:
I mean that's mainly because his friends weren't getting that normal life because there were still hollows to kill and people to stop from being eaten.
He was perfectly fine being a dad after he was done with the Yhwach ordeal, I mean, he turned down being soul king in favor of Inoue's honkers having a kid.
Click to expand...
There's still hollows after the Blood War dude.

And the Soul King just stands in some crystal or something. He doesn't do anything.

Would you abandon everyone you care about to place yourself in a crystal for the rest of your life? I wouldn't.
 
Warren Valion really highlighted a problem I've developed with Naruto, that Kishimoto destroyed Naruto the underdog and in doing so, tore apart a founding priniciple of the story he created.

Naruto was always destined for greatness, despite all the stuff everyone talked about hard work and such. He has the genes for it and is the reincarnation of Asura on top of being descended from the guy.

When you realize that, it destroys so much of what Naruto's accomplishments special in the first place and spits in the face of the series.
 
There are many holes in how that mini Essay you wrote Warren, and i feel like your taking things out of context and not understanding what Naruto as a character actually is.

however im not going to argue with you if Ichigo is relatable to you as I said above, that part is extremely subjective and to argue otherwise is foolish.

also, as much as id like to write an essay on how Ichigo just doesn't work as a character, im really not going to, there is already this weird animosity between Bleach and Naruto fans, stuff like that will only fuel the fire, also people that agree with me for feel validated and people who don't just would dismiss it, meaning im speaking to an echo chamber.. which completely defeats the purpose of me writing this long ass essay, also im very likely to be called Ant-Bleach or something in the future. which is as true as the world is flat.
 
Asura himself wasn't even better than average compared to Indra

What got Naruto and Asura their achievements were their personalities. Nothing else. They wasn't destined for greatness. Asura freaking died without achieving nothing but never ending cycle of hatred until Naruto was born.

If anything destiny making Naruto Asuras reincarnation was worse because he had to work his ass off without knowing he would be having to face some of the biggest threats ever because of it.

Narutos personality and beliefs is what makes him relatable to every sane person. He is just a person who wants peace and to accomplish his dreams. Being hokage to Naruto is the same thing as giving peace to everyone because he can protect them as their leader.

Naruto practically wa still portrayed as the underdog until he was able to get power for himself by training and defeating kurama. Everything else was due to his personality. The tailed beast wouldn't have given him their chakra without his character that wants peace for everyone. Just like use. Naruto is actually a simple character you guys just place your views in the wrong things. His actions speak louder than words.
 
I really hate commenting whenever I forget how to deal with things.

Anyway, I have to disagree Astral. Asura and, by extension, Indra never failed because of their lack of ability to achieve so if they ever really tried to do it - they failed because Indra was influenced far too much without him being able to form his own thoughts on the weird, out-of-nowhereb black thing telling him stuff until he's thinking like it wants him too and he never even realizes this, while Asura is wholly unaware like his father that this thing exists.

No amount of power matters when the problem is out of your reach, or out of consciousness.

But Asura had more than enough power. I mean, his damn past recarnation just spammed the same ability in different ways and Madara could do nothing. EMS? Nothing. Fox? Nothing. Rinnegan after being resurrected? He gets kicked to the curb so hard it's not funny. Saying nobody couldn't do anything when lots of people got the power and will to make a change, but unlike Naruto they had a shadowy bastard setting everything up for failure and not even failing in his attempts as far as we see. Naruto had power, LOTS of power, and lots of it wasn't a matter of training hard - it was genetics and destiny. There's a whole destiny about him. He didn't succeed because he was the first to try and have the means, but because he was the first that didn't have the shadowy obstacles getting in the way and everything in perfect position to form connections to the other side, a common enemy from which to draw unity and form a bond. He has all the charisma and will to bring peace because he wants it, but he was very lucky in a way that has nothing to do with hard work but with luck and genetics.I don't say that to disregard what he achieved, I say it because it's the honest truth.

There's also the fact that he wanted none of those things in the start. He was starved of attention and recognition, that was the whole reason of his pranks. That was the whole reason of his wish to be Hokage, nothing grand and important. It became that as his world grew, and his view of it did as well as it matured. Which is good, but like Warren says his starting determination is based on almost nothing because we don't see none of this bad treatment of Naruto. His classmate he's a fool at worst, his teacher appreciates him, the main place that serves the food he loves adores him among other things, and we don't see anything from these hateful villagers ever, or their changing expectations, but from people that are barely knowing Naruto and are not related to this stigma at all, or from important characters that probably didn't even have this negative opinion. Not to mention due to the fox, the sensation of underdog really wears thin soon, and gets blown apart by a certain point of shippuden.
 
Naruto's Goal to become Hokage was driven by acceptance and love and recognition, due to his ostracization from the Hidden Leaf village as clearly depicted in Naruto, just because they don't show him getting beaten or scorn by the villagers every episode doesn't mean anything, it's needless exposition to something the audience already knows, in doing this you prioritizing spoon feeding over the flow of story, this is an extremely common trope and very noble goal that can easily be relatable to millions, saying it isn't because Naruto isn't set in the real world doesn't detract from this, It's the Goal to be accepted by your loved ones and peers and doing so in a way that he likes (Being Hokage) which is essentially a metaphor for your goals in like, to be a doctor, a good mother etc etc.

as for Naruto being full of shit because of the Destiny aspect is Bull.

Naruto is telling the individual that you're not bound by destiny to achieve greatness, that your choices is what leads to your path, Rock Lee trained harder than anyone and what happened? he became one of the most powerful shinobi in Konoha despite having a huge disadvantage, anyone who thought Rock Lee and co would be as powerful as Naruto is Delusional, Naruto is the protagonist of a Shonen Manga and you should know Better.

"Okay you know Naruto didn't really work hard for his goal he was handed everything"

His the Son of the Fourth Hokage The father he inherited nothing from, the father that was never there for me, the father that sealed the the nine-tailed fox that caused his ostracization in the first place.

Jiraiya the Gallant his Godfather Oh, the guy who was never in Naruto's Life until much later and only agreed to train him because of former's persistence and attitude.

Kurama The Beast that caused Naruto so much pain for most of his life, endangered his friends and peers and was only really an assist due to Naruto unconditional way of respecting and finding the good in everyone.

Reincarnation of Asura" The reincarnation of the useless brother who's greatest asset was his love and not power, he was only able to fight Indra through the bonds he created with the Individuals he met.

Naruto's greatest asset was his tenacity and charisma, not his pure power. many of his so-called benefits were hindrances that were simply transformed into advantages by his own hard work and resilience.

"Naruto Was Destined for greatness because of his background etc etc"

No Naruto was Destined to do great things in the context of the story because he's the protagonist.

"Naruto isn't an Underdog because he has all this power."

Naruto's Underdog story was never because of his lack of power but because of what he was.

even in the context of Universe itself, Naruto was never destined for Greatness. he was destined to fight his other reincarnation to the death and recreate the cycle of hatred, which he broke.
 
Warren Valion wrote a wall of text.

I have borrow your opinion for a discussion on Reddit since I AM 100% behind it and I wish we could had seen more about it. I hope you don't mind me copy & pasting it.
 
Despite Ichigo's various flaws, I have to go with him.

Naruto was undeniably the better written character at first, but he steadily began to decline when certain things began to impact his character, in a rather negative way.

I would give my reasons but I can't without writing literally a novella sized analysis on Naruto's terrible characterization. This is the guy who literally sat here and told Kaguya that Obito was "the coolest guy!" We ALL know this infamous line.

Naruto called Obito, his archnemesis (yes, not Kurama who was being controlled by Obito), the man responsible for the death of his parents, and subsequently resulting in Kurama being sealed within him which caused the whole village to hate him, the man that broke people' necks, started a world war, and killed Neji. The man that manipulated Nagato which led to the death of his (Naruto's) godfather and master Jiriaya and the destruction of his home village. Naruto called that man the "coolest guy". Like Warren said, 'Naruto is full of shit. That alone, "the coolest guy" line, among a myriad of other things, makes Naruto probably the worst Shounen protagonist I've seen. No context can help that. I've rewatched Naruto several times and I keep falling in love with Naruto's character, but then he just decides to give a big slap in the face and all the people who he lost because of that moron Obito, and yet Obito assited in saving your life and then saved your life literally against Kaguya resulting in his death (but he wanted to die anyway...) Yet those two acts of...dare I say,"kindness", makes him the coolest guy? What!?

I'm actually mad this thread was made because I know Shadow and I are gonna clash heads about this again (don't worry we're buddies C:) but I can literally go deep into why I'd pick Ichigo over Naruto. Even though I liked Naruto as a series better than Bleach.
 
I'm actually mad this thread was made because I know Shadow and I are gonna clash heads about this again

(Because your going to lose. jk jk :^) )
 
Ichigo just never got the time to breathe unfortunately. He was barely even in the final arc. The reason being....because Ichigo was the hardest character for Kubo to draw... :|
 
Wrath Of Itachi said:
Are we all forgetting that ichigo was literally willing to cut one of his arms off for a "fair" fight against ulquiorra?
Click to expand...
I did say "despite all of Ichgio's flaws".
 
The only appeal I see in Ichigo is his character design and stellar voice acting, my biggest Gripe with Ichigo is that he lacks the basic fundamental aspects when it comes to writing a character, You can argue that Naruto's character development was executed badly (That's Subjective) but that's not something I can do with Ichigo, There's nothing to execute well or badly.... Hence why I firmly believe Rukia should have been the main character just like Kubo Originally intended
 
What happened to your reply's format o_O

Anyway, it's all subjective. Only when you get into SAO/The Last Jedi levels of bullshit that it becomes objective ovo.
 
OvO no Last Jedi is great and is nitpicked to death because "Disney is an evil company"


no comment on SAO
 
That's a pretty big flaw to have. However, I agree to a point about obito and nagato. But let's be honest, Itachi is the best written character in naruto.
 
But let's be honest, Itachi is the best written character in naruto.
Personally i always thought Nagato was tbh
 
Shinji is the best Shounen protagonist ever. Eva was my first anime and I still hold that opinion 17 years later. As for TLJ, it was a stellar film, can't argue with dat production quality o3o. But some writing decisions were poor imo. Anyway thats for another thread.

Also, Deku is better than Naruto, Luffy, and Ichigo combined. O v O
 
The whole story up to Aizen's defeat happened in the same year. 6 blank months of nothing. Fullbring Arc and Final Happened in less than four months. Let that sink in for a second. Barely a year and a half.
 
AppleLord said:
The whole story up to Aizen's defeat happened in the same year. 6 blank months of nothing. Fullbring Arc and Final Happened in less than four months. Let that sink in for a second. Barely a year and a half.
Click to expand...
Don't forget Bleach has the longest 11 seconds in fictional history. Similar to Dragonball and the infamous 5 minutes...

C o n s p i r a c y
 
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