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3-C is such a random tier to put Shibai in lmao3-C Shibai. We're coming for you, Adnyeus
That doesn’t make sense though. Just cause we have showing or think it is doesn’t mean it should be true. How would Kurama be stronger but the rest just happens to have the same amount of strength??? They all were created the same with the same chakra they gotWell, hate to break it to ya, but your belief is wrong lol.
1 through 8 are relative to each other.
How would Kurama be stronger but the rest just happens to have the same amount of strength???
Have you considered the fact that Kurama might just he HIM?That doesn’t make sense though. Just cause we have showing or think it is doesn’t mean it should be true. How would Kurama be stronger but the rest just happens to have the same amount of strength??? They all were created the same with the same chakra they got
Gedo mazo folded choji and his dad if I remember correctly.Pretty sure the Gedo Mazo folded those easily so the scaling chain is likely isolated. But you can probably argue that Choji would downscale 100x from Gedo Mazo which puts him at 300 MTs (7-A) which could scale to every "Elite Jonin" (currently 7-B+) tier.
This does have an issue in which Choji would have a jutsu that puts him 7x Bijuu level, even stronger than early KCM2 Naruto. Consistency issues.
It doesn't need to be that large actually. Stuffs like the 2c structures beinf infinitesimally small compared t the 5d structure is enough.Basically the 5th dimension needs to stretch out to a length equivalent of the width of uncountably infinite Low 2-C structures. That's what I mean by significant size.
6D Shibai ftw.
You say that as if that was any easier lmaoIt doesn't need to be that large actually. Stuffs like the 2c structures beinf infinitesimally small compared t the 5d structure is enough.
Right from part one it was made clear for kurama only to be a beast compared to the rest. To the extent bro's ways were said to just be like a natural disaster, hatred himself. Only tailed beast to never have a jinjuriki control his power. I mean just look at the obito vs Naruto fight. That's the perfect place to show all tailed beast are relative except half kurama who whooped their asses. Also kurama got the short end of the stick in terms of chakra nature and kekkei genkai so maybe that complementsThat doesn’t make sense though. Just cause we have showing or think it is doesn’t mean it should be true. How would Kurama be stronger but the rest just happens to have the same amount of strength??? They all were created the same with the same chakra they got
If you beat me, you can make a CRT with those arguments, and I will support you in that thread.Arc can I also add this ? Once I beat you, you will create a CRT using the arguments you conceded to. It only makes sense.
News flash buddy, our opinions then have evolved in the now. I’m speaking on the present not the past. And yes it is a major reason atm, like who tf are you to tell me why I disagree with stuff? Is Uzuhiko the only reason, no, is it a reason, yes.No arc. Uzuhiko isn't one of the major reasons you guys disagree with MAS>ETSO. It's just you don't believe the statement makes reference to all ninjustu. I know this coz when it was being argued uzuhiko did not even exist.
The tiering system page says low 1C starts at a collection of uncountably infinite low 2C structures. I am just verbatim quoting the wiki standards.It doesn't need to be that large actually. Stuffs like the 2c structures beinf infinitesimally small compared t the 5d structure is enough.
Also 2C being infinitesimally small compared to a structure is also the same thing.Characters or objects who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that are one uncountably infinite level[note 2] above Low 2-C structures. In ordinary distribution, this corresponds to R^5 (5-dimensional real coordinate space).
Equivalently, this tier can be reached by affecting/creating/destroying/embodying an uncountably infinite number of universes (More specifically, as many universes as there are real numbers)
I never said Naruto adheres to real world physics. If I thought that then I wouldn't spend time here. That has no bearing on my point tho.
Exactly, it picks and chooses when to apply real world physics. Which means it can choose to have tears in spacetime without having anything to do with mass and gravity.
Chakra isn't irl energy or matter. It's a supernatural concept that can be converted to matter or energy as we know irl. You need to prove that chakra bending space works the same way as energy or matter bending space cuz we can see chakra doesn't act like that. This is why we have standards for black holes. Even if a character supposedly creates a black hole, but it doesn't act the way a black hole would, it isn't given the stats of a black hole. Same with lasers and lightning. You need to first provide evidence that chakra bending space works in the same way as irl matter or energy.
Fiction still needs to prove certain things to get past the standards on this wiki. Tearing spacetime doesn't have concrete standards but your proposal isn't likely to be accepted.
Like I stated above, you first would need to show thatbending space via chakra functions the same way as bending space via matter or energy. You are starting with an assumption there. Which is not what we do when treating SoL statements or Uzuhiko having planetary KE.
No again don't ignore arguments stop that stuff.nope Kaguya's ability to control timespace at that scale is limited to teleporting/moving, so why are you bringing up creation and destruction
Mass in this context doesn't mean matter. Mass means collection of chakra. Words have different meanings based on context.Answer- you are wrong. In this case we already got information that indeed the mass of charkra kurama is the one causing the abnormalities is the spatial curvature and the side effect are what is being ignored here as you can see. Thus my point stands. ( I will go over why over why your chakra interpretation is wrong below)
You keep saying Kurama is a mass of energy as if it means anything. The mass used in this statement doesn't mean "matter". And yes Chakra is a supernatural concept because it doesn't exist in real life. Momoshiki being able to interact with it doesn't make it not supernatural. As it stands chakra isn't "matter" and isn't irl energy. It is a supernatural form of energy. So irl relativistic physics can't be applied to it. Which means it can cause tears in the space time without actually exerting black holes level of energy on it.Answer-This is an example of the straw man fallacy, as it oversimplifies the argument about chakra’s interaction with physical phenomena.
don't ignore my previous arguments. Kurama is a Mass of Chakra he not just of some supernatural concept alone, he also contain the very energy itself Chakra is depicted with properties that allow it to interact with the physical world in significant ways, including the creation of ninjutsu. Hence why when Momoshiki was directly draining the energy from Kurama he goes wow we are now halfway there (quantifiable), pointing to the fact that this is in fact real physical energy and he can interact with it. Please stop this strawman. Kurama is a mass of energy.
The angry Samlex strat is OP and banned in most speedrun sitesLooks like we’re speed-running to 1000.
I was about to drop that on him . Just like lasers and lightning, these tears need to act like how a hypothetical one irl would.Irl Black Holes don’t create glass like cracks in space anyway. Idk where people get the “cracked spacetime = black hole” from.
Also, if we want to entail that the chakra is acting like an actual black hole, then you’d concede that for that to be true, the Naruto earth would collapse in on itself and become a black hole. You cannot hold the position that it abides by physics to grant it the 10^47 joules or whatever, without it abiding by physics lol.I was about to drop that on him . Just like lasers and lightning, these tears need to act like how a hypothetical one irl would.
"AOE fallacy"Also, if we want to entail that the chakra is acting like an actual black hole, then you’d concede that for that to be true, the Naruto earth would collapse in on itself and become a black hole. You cannot hold the position that it abides by physics to grant it the 10^47 joules or whatever, without it abiding by physics lol.
Yeah I already made this point.Also, if we want to entail that the chakra is acting like an actual black hole, then you’d concede that for that to be true, the Naruto earth would collapse in on itself and become a black hole. You cannot hold the position that it abides by physics to grant it the 10^47 joules or whatever, without it abiding by physics lol.
Nonsense I already refuted that. Hence the Uzuhiko argument.Yeah I already made this point.
And I already refuted your refutation. Hence me saying ignoring irl consequences of Uzuhiko doesn't require you to assume Uzuhiko's mechanics. In the case of spatial tears you need to start with assumptions that you haven't proven to be true yet.Nonsense I already refuted that. Hence the Uzuhiko argument.
youre wanking it lowkeyDo you think Kaguya is physically grabbing the dimensions and swapping them for each other or something?
I dont get the point of this? why are you all acting as this is some speculative feat requiring in depth calculationHow will you calc the KE of moving two 4D constructs through 5D space?
I mean I would think so too, but seeing how Senjumaru's feat isn't universal made me think that the wiki would require a KE calc.I dont get the point of this? why are you all acting as this is some speculative feat requiring in depth calculation
instant swapping of a universe is just flat out universal there's no ifs or buts
Now Naruto will soon join Bleach where it should be. We all struggled but at last, we all eat. Not one piece though.
LmfaoNow Naruto will soon join Bleach where it should be. We all struggled but at last, we all eat. Not one piece though.
Senjumaru isn't significantly affecting the realmsI mean I would think so too, but seeing how Senjumaru's feat isn't universal made me think that the wiki would require a KE calc.
the Naruto universe, chakra is described as a form of energy that combines physical and spiritual energy. By the way, this is not always the case as solar energy, planetary energy and many forms of energy in the Naruto world are still called chakra.Mass in this context doesn't mean matter. Mass means collection of chakra. Words have different meanings based on context.
You keep saying Kurama is a mass of energy as if it means anything. The mass used in this statement doesn't mean "matter". And yes Chakra is a supernatural concept because it doesn't exist in real life. Momoshiki being able to interact with it doesn't make it not supernatural. As it stands chakra isn't "matter" and isn't irl energy. It is a supernatural form of energy. So irl relativistic physics can't be applied to it. Which means it can cause tears in the space time without actually exerting black holes level of energy on it.
Senjumarus feat is just blatantly different within a different cosmology. She's actually doing it with just raw power while Kaguya is using a hax ability for it + the cosmologies of the verses are differentI mean I would think so too, but seeing how Senjumaru's feat isn't universal made me think that the wiki would require a KE calc.
she is using her chakra which does not translate 1:1 with Energy joules, and teleportation does not abide to the same energy requirements that PE and KE doesCharacters or objects who can significantly affect,
We saw that she was able to move her Time-spaces through transportation/ teleporting/ moving, regardless she still moves it, indeed significantly affecting a space-time continuum and she is using her energy to do this.
yes its objectively is, the only instance of her effecting timespace with that wide of an AOE is with Amenominaka.No it is not limited to teleporting and movement alone, she is affecting the space-time continuum on a universal scale.
What nonsense. What a biased statement. Can you explain why hax ability powered by energy sources and can significantly affect a universal structure do not deserve a rating?Senjumarus feat is just blatantly different within a different cosmology. She's actually doing it with just raw power while Kaguya is using a hax ability for it + the cosmologies of the verses are different
Go and read what I posted again because you totally ignored it. You want to change the interpretation of 2c feat. Take it up with the wiki.she is using her chakra which does not translate 1:1 with Energy joules, and teleportation does not abide to the same energy requirements that PE and KE does
yes its objectively is, the only instance of her effecting timespace with that wide of an AOE is with Amenominaka.
ontop of that if you want to be pedantic its localized Environmental summoning as those outside of kaguya's immediate vicinity are not effected by the dimensions swap.
you're not realSenjumarus feat is just blatantly different within a different cosmology. She's actually doing it with just raw power while Kaguya is using a hax ability for it + the cosmologies of the verses are different
Don't even try to go that route because you will regret it. There is in fact an overwhelming evidence that she is in fact moving the entire dimension. Lol even the wiki says thisGo and read what I posted again because you totally ignored it. You want to change the interpretation of 2c feat. Take it up with the wiki.
Environmental summoning lol I see moving the goalpost. Just concede man.
Do you think Kakashi can tank his own kamui? After all it's powered by his energyWhat nonsense. What a biased statement. Can you explain why hax ability powered by energy sources and can significantly affect a universal structure do not deserve a rating?
All the more reason that Kaguya's feat won't be accepted prollySenjumarus feat is just blatantly different within a different cosmology. She's actually doing it with just raw power while Kaguya is using a hax ability for it + the cosmologies of the verses are different
"WE CAN'T AFFORD TO SAVE OUR CHAKRA" in relation to whether or not she should use Amenominaka to get away from NS duo
thats quite literally what it is, whats accepted on the wiki, i was there for the thread, its shifting the dimensions, its quite literally likened to summoning in the same arc. in vs battle wiki speak, instead of BFR your opponent you BFR the environment, which is hax.Environmental summoning lol I see moving the goalpost. Just concede man.
youre right buddy, let'sDo you think Kakashi can tank his own kamui? After all it's powered by his energy
you can be hax and still scale as long youre supplying the energy needed for itmy lord you guys are goofy, you realize an ability using resources in this case chakra does not disqualify it from being hax lmfao wtf.
Kamui is also hax and that requires huge amounts of chakra.