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Is this statement true, kurama is a mass of Chakra?
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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
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the point is how are you going to translate kaguya's teleportation into a measurable statistic, theres no KE, PE , and using the energy consumption as means to translate that to other effects doesnt work because theres no causation between them.
HelloThere1089
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then he doesn't really understand how the wiki treats higher dimensions here.
HelloThere1089
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Idk, I think he knows that you need uncountably infinite to reach the next dimension. If that's what you're referring to. (
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There isn't one on the wiki. Subset abilities are not explained most of the time. But if you check the spatial manipulation page there is a note at the end on space time manipulationKaro im not attacking youbut can you show me a link that explains Spacetime manipulation, not time manipulation or spatial manipulation but both together
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Do you need KE, PE, if you are significantly affecting a space-time continuum?
Though for the other I will pose a question about that ( though I have some answer I'm currently in a debate with a person and I'm gatekeeping that point)
so manipulating Time is Time manipulation, manipulating space is Spacial manipulation and manipulate both is Space-Time manipulation.
Can you tell me why again Amenominaka does not get a rating for Significantly affecting a Space-Time continuum?
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Doesn't the context make it obvious?
I'm talking about 2 or more 4D universes with infinite space coexisting without the need for an additional 5th dimension.
Also I don't fw dimensional tiering enough to remember what Aleph-null and 2^Aleph-Null mean so you would need to expand on that
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oh god.....
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yes especially when your means of moving is via teleportation
she does which is why she has space-time manipulation in her profile.
HelloThere1089
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see I knew he was talking about countably infinite.
Aleph null means a set of countably infinite items, you need at least an uncountably infinite (power set of countably infinite) number of 3D spaces to reach 4D. Which is prolly not what you're talking about.Also I don't fw dimensional tiering enough to remember what Aleph-null and 2^Aleph-Null mean so you would need to expand on that
HelloThere1089
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Actually David, instead of me explaining set theory rn, I'll just link you the wiki standards since that is most likely what you care about.
vsbattles.fandom.com
scroll down to "Regarding separation of Universes"
Universe
The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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To clarify, the only reason I mentioned Uzuhiko was in response to your claim about space-time tears causing black holes and gravitational effects. My point was Uzuhiko harnesses planetary energy without causing destruction, showing that Naruto’s universe doesn’t adhere to real-world consequences like black holes or gravitational anomalies when manipulating space or energy. This is crucial to understanding how power scaling in Naruto operates under different rules.
1. Speed of Light (SoL) Statements: You are correct that when characters move at light speed, no assumptions are needed for their speed. But the lack of real-world consequences, such as atmospheric destruction or time dilation, shows that Naruto doesn’t apply real-world physics for the effects of these feats.
2. Uzuhiko: While planetary energy is used, it doesn’t destroy the planet—something that would occur in reality. This shows Naruto’s universe picks and chooses when real-world effects apply, further supporting the idea that space-time tears wouldn’t follow real-world gravitational consequences.
Now for the final and most important part, the other parts are just supportive argument
Tears in space:
We need to assume that chakra causing tears in space is the same as mass causing tears in space cuz only then can you use the black hole calc.
Answer= We already agreed that Naruto hosts in him a mass of energy the being is considered to have a chakra pull so massive, it is immeasurable ( now I'm not saying infinite, just unquantifiable ).
For that to happen you'd also need to conclude that Naruto's chakra is causing an increase in mass surrounding him. But we don't see that at all. Only then can you claim anything about the AP.
Answer- well I already explained how fiction logic does not always equate to real level logic, hence the examples above. The focus here is the feat just like in the case of Uzuhiko.
This is the feat here, Naruto just by existing is causing tears in space. An abnormality so bad it needs to be reported to the otutsuki clan. The reason the space curvature exceeded the amount required was because of the mass of energy present in Naruto.
Notice Momoshiki focus was kurama literally referring to him as energy.
No you are wrong
Guy I have been up since yesterday. I will reply later to any other argument I need to rest.
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Hello please read my argument that took some time. I enjoy debating you.
HelloThere1089
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Sleep tight Lex. You can reply to me later.
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HelloThere1089
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I never said Naruto adheres to real world physics. If I thought that then I wouldn't spend time here. That has no bearing on my point tho.
Exactly, it picks and chooses when to apply real world physics. Which means it can choose to have tears in spacetime without having anything to do with mass and gravity.
Chakra isn't irl energy or matter. It's a supernatural concept that can be converted to matter or energy as we know irl. You need to prove that chakra bending space works the same way as energy or matter bending space cuz we can see chakra doesn't act like that. This is why we have standards for black holes. Even if a character supposedly creates a black hole, but it doesn't act the way a black hole would, it isn't given the stats of a black hole. Same with lasers and lightning. You need to first provide evidence that chakra bending space works in the same way as irl matter or energy.
Fiction still needs to prove certain things to get past the standards on this wiki. Tearing spacetime doesn't have concrete standards but your proposal isn't likely to be accepted.
Like I stated above, you first would need to show that bending space via chakra functions the same way as bending space via matter or energy. You are starting with an assumption there. Which is not what we do when treating SoL statements or Uzuhiko having planetary KE.
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nope Kaguya's ability to control timespace at that scale is limited to teleporting/moving, so why are you bringing up creation and destruction
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Would it affect Butterfly Mode Choji? And that Earth Shinobi's Jutsu?
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Pretty sure the Gedo Mazo folded those easily so the scaling chain is likely isolated. But you can probably argue that Choji would downscale 100x from Gedo Mazo which puts him at 300 MTs (7-A) which could scale to every "Elite Jonin" (currently 7-B+) tier.
This does have an issue in which Choji would have a jutsu that puts him 7x Bijuu level, even stronger than early KCM2 Naruto. Consistency issues.
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That's what I thought but why would anyone assume I was talking about an uncountably infinite amount of universes? My point was basically the exact opposite
HelloThere1089
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Idk. Ask Ryzen. I correctly assumed you were talking about countable infinity. Anyways read the link I shared. That should conclude our discussion about 3D parallel spaces needing 4D plane to be separated if one or more of them are universal in size i.e Low 2C.
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Honestly that page is kidna weird. It kidna makes it sound like any connected multiverse composed of spacetimes would be Low 1-C.
Which makes it sound a lot easier than I thought.
HelloThere1089
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No. Being 5D doesn't equate to being Low 1-C. Every multiversal void is 5D, but to be Low 1-C, the 5th dimension needs to be of significant size (uncountably infinite). That is why most 2-C and above verses aren't Low 1-C on the wiki.
HelloThere1089
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Also speaking of dimensional tiering, I am surprised none of y'all have started gooning about the prescience chapter. I mean even if I disagree, I was expecting some chaos by now.
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Yeah I heard that (never actually saw it in the wiki rules) but that doesn't really make sense and nobody ever say what qualifies as "significant size"
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Well probably the only character who's affected by it rn is Shibai and he doesn't have a page yet. I'm fully expecting pure dimensional brainrot after he gets a profile
HelloThere1089
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Basically the 5th dimension needs to stretch out to a length equivalent of the width of uncountably infinite Low 2-C structures. That's what I mean by significant size.
Well probably the only character who's affected by it rn is Shibai and he doesn't have a page yet. I'm fully expecting pure dimensional brainrot after he gets a profile
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Omg please no, a 6D Naruto/Boruto character would fill every single powerscaling forum for the next year
HelloThere1089
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It's inevitableOmg please no, a 6D Naruto/Boruto character would fill every single powerscaling forum for the next year
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3-C is such a random tier to put Shibai in lmao
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That doesn’t make sense though. Just cause we have showing or think it is doesn’t mean it should be true. How would Kurama be stronger but the rest just happens to have the same amount of strength??? They all were created the same with the same chakra they got
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It's almost like he's the Biju for the main character and more important for the story.
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Have you considered the fact that Kurama might just he HIM?
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Gedo mazo folded choji and his dad if I remember correctly.
The bigger problem is base guy making it shreak in pain from attacking it's pinkie.
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It doesn't need to be that large actually. Stuffs like the 2c structures beinf infinitesimally small compared t the 5d structure is enough.
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You say that as if that was any easier lmao
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Right from part one it was made clear for kurama only to be a beast compared to the rest. To the extent bro's ways were said to just be like a natural disaster, hatred himself. Only tailed beast to never have a jinjuriki control his power. I mean just look at the obito vs Naruto fight. That's the perfect place to show all tailed beast are relative except half kurama who whooped their asses. Also kurama got the short end of the stick in terms of chakra nature and kekkei genkai so maybe that complements
