Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[sageof8paths]

So if I am understanding this correctly:

1. a Shinju chakra fruit > simply eating an Otsutsuki like Momo did to Kin.

Yes

2. Momo eating Kin is Momo + Kin since they are relative to each other.

Yes

3. Every shinju tree therefore must be a greater amp than just an addition of the pair of Otsutsuki.

Yes

4. Each time the Otsutsuki that gets sacrificed, comes back via Karma. (scan would be appreciated)

Yes. Go to chapter 51 of boruto nng, Amado states it

Now I need to know how you're gonna justify the pair being/staying relative to each other. Are you saying that Karmic ressurection is an equal amp to eating a chakra fruit?

They both share the fruit, Amado stated this. Therefore get a similar amp. Amado theorized Kaguya betrayed isshiki because she didn’t wanna share the fruit.

Karmic resurrection isn’t an amp as far as I know and I never implied or argued it was. They come back to life before the tree is ready and eat the fruit

 

[Samlex1234]

Wow this is crazy thinking about it. Karmic resurrection is literally an infinite power glitch.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This thumbnail goes hard though, I can't even lie.

 

[Samlex1234]

Even without absorbing all the planet’s chakra, karmic resurrection is crazy. Momo consumes Kinshiki’s chakra fruit, resurrects through karma, and then consumes him again. This cycle repeats over thousands of years. And on top of that, they still manage to absorb all the chakra on planet, including the planet’s energy itself.

 

[sageof8paths]

Yeah that’s how Amado describes it tbh. They’re tryna become 4d so makes sense lmao

 

[HelloThere1089]

Just reread chapter 51 and I can't believe I forgot all about this.

Another issue I have though: How will you justify that the 16 chakra fruits that Momoshiki ate, were eaten between the time when Kaguya last saw him and Boruto era?

Edit: Also, can I get a scan for Chakra fruit from shinju being better than the one Kinshiki was turned into? I remember that being implied but forgot where.

 

[Samlex1234]

Yeah, that’s how Amado describes it tbh.

Bro looks like you are working day and night to upgrade the verse because all this information is crazy. I have never thought of it like that honestly.

 

[Samlex1234]

I’m to lazy to create an imgur link.

Literally just search up momoshiki 16 chakra fruits an image will appear.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I am so glad that I defended Shikamaru being the hokage:

Spoiler: Chapter 14

Goated character. Not sure how Omnipotence is getting circumvented by just believing.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

i definitely think naruto was mental amps.

The problem is that both when he first unlocked KCM and when he supposedly got a mental amp, he was compared to the Yellow Flash

Sure I'm not trying to scale naruto to hokage minato
Raikage was the only one so fast madara had to block with susanoo and could not dodge.

I don't think him choosing to use Susanoo proves he couldn't dodge. He was able to react to KCM2 Naruto physically, I really doubt he had trouble with Ay's speed.

He even complemented his speed.

Cause he'd still be one of the fastest shinobi Madara has seen

The rest people he stated that he purposely got hit by their attacks just to show hashirama's face. He also made a note to say tsunade is slower than the raikage

You know he also used Susanoo to block Tsunade right

You are theory crafting here. This is just a statement of fact from Minato acknowledging the situation. Nothing is implied beyond that.

This isn't a theory when he literally implemented a plan that takes this factor into account right after. What do you think FTG level 2 even is? It's a response to Obito phasing through Minato when he simply attacks head on.

The thing you’re failing to acknowledge is that outside of FTG usage, Minato has failed to tag Obito in every instance he tries.

I'm aware? That's literally the reason Minato tried a different approach.

This statement from Minato, again, is just a statement of fact. There is no implication carried that says Minato held back his speed.

No it's not, he said he needs to time his attack precisely, then he follows this up by timing his attack precisely, attacking just when Obito thinks he's won

Remember, right after this statement, Minato acknowledges he “could” very well lose this exchange: “This is all going to be over for one of us in an instant!” — Which actually implies the opposite of what you’re saying.

If he doesn't activate FTG at the right time he could lose, and he technically says it'll be decided by who's faster, and Minato won, so...
どっちの攻撃が相手より一瞬速いかで決まる!

Again, you are theory crafting here. Nothing here is implied to mean he held back his speed. Nothing he showcased implies that either. Kishimoto is writing Minato to understand and recognize Obito’s abilities and fighting style, similarly Konan. Nothing more.

Kishimoto made Minato understand and recognize Obito's abilities and fighting style, then craft a solution. I don't know why you keep ignoring that FTG level 2 is a blatant follow up to everything he was talking about in the previous page. If his plan was simply to slightly outspeed Obito and tag him with the Rasengan before Obito touched him, why did he throw the FTG kunai behind Obito?

This isn’t relevant. Obito had no need to extend his arm and he would’ve beat Minato in this specific exchange sans FTG, which is what is shown and implied.

He needed to extend his arm to touch Minato

So yes, Obito’s Combat Speed and Movement Speed would be Relative to “Slightly” Faster than Minato’s based on this and using a scan where his arm is extend vs Obito, who didn’t require his arm to be extended and simply needed “touch”, is a bit disingenuous, don’t you think?

Not really, at worst it's a 50/50 on whether he was still extending his arm after he saw Minato disappear, but either way his body was absolutely still moving forward given that he was mid air from his leap forward.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

@NeoKingOfLight Let's say that hypothetically Minato was faster than Obito in combat speed. In what way would it have been beneficial if he attacked faster and forced Obito to phase there? It would've just maintained the stalemate

 

[karo_senpaii]

Slight issue. I believe that in Boruto it has been clarified that ten tails specifically extracts the chakra from living beings. Not the planet's chakra. If that's what you meant then ok.

Ok.

Ok. I do agree that IT Kaguya < a hypothetical Fused Momoshiki from 1000 years ago at least. Without the ETSB of course, although arguments can be made.

True.

I have a doubt tho. We know that it might be possible to get a chakra fruit without sacrificing an Otsutsuki. Like Kaguya did. So how are you going to justify that Momoshiki sacrificed 16 Otsutsuki?

For the last part well thanks to the power of shinjutsu( karma) those otsusuki would just come back so they are not really sacrificed. Hell it could be kinshiki going through the karma cycle 16 times. Kaguya getting a fruit without an otsusuki is just unexplained for now.

 

[sageof8paths]

Just reread chapter 51 and I can't believe I forgot all about this.

Another issue I have though: How will you justify that the 16 chakra fruits that Momoshiki ate, were eaten between the time when Kaguya last saw him and Boruto era?

In the novel it’s stated is momoshiki eating the last one after he conquered the planet and it’s generally implied that it was a recent event. I highly doubt momoshiki was on one planet for thousands of years. It’s also 17 God tree’s and not 16. The dimension he fought Naruto and sasuke in also has its own.

Edit: Also, can I get a scan for Chakra fruit from shinju being better than the one Kinshiki was turned into? I remember that being implied but forgot where.

It’s never explicitly stated but if it was less of an amp, they would do that instead of going through the stress of planting a ten tails and guarding a tree.

It also doesn’t make sense for it to be such seeing as the chakra fruit= ten tails+otsutuski+entire planet

yes that is it. If u get a clearer image u can count up to 16 iirc

 

[sageof8paths]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Boruto/s/BJDTsNcGZj

Yeah this is a good quality image if u zoom in really hard u can find 15-16

 

[HelloThere1089]

In the novel it’s stated is momoshiki eating the last one after he conquered the planet and it’s generally implied that it was a recent event. I highly doubt momoshiki was on one planet for thousands of years. It’s also 17 God tree’s and not 16. The dimension he fought Naruto and sasuke in also has its own.

So this is where you're gonna hit a bump in your CRT. You would need some logic to fit 16 fruits after Kaguya last saw Momoshiki. Just saying "I highly doubt it" prolly is not gonna be accepted.

It’s never explicitly stated but if it was less of an amp, they would do that instead of going through the stress of planting a ten tails and guarding a tree.

Because using the tree helps Kinshiki come back again and again. But converting Kinshiki into a fruit without the tree doesn't let Kinshiki use Karma. So the latter option could be a bigger amp immediately, but the reusability of the tree gives them more amps so it's better in the long run.

It also doesn’t make sense for it to be such seeing as the chakra fruit= ten tails+otsutuski+entire planet

This I can agree with.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

.

 

[sageof8paths]

So this is where you're gonna hit a bump in your CRT. You would need some logic to fit 16 fruits after Kaguya last saw Momoshiki. Just saying "I highly doubt it" prolly is not gonna be accepted.

I literally said the novel tells us it’s a recent event happening.

Because using the tree helps Kinshiki come back again and again. But converting Kinshiki into a fruit without the tree doesn't let Kinshiki use Karma. So the latter option could be a bigger amp immediately, but the reusability of the tree gives them more amps so it's better in the long run.

No bro read 51 again, kinshiki will not come back from the divine tree if he doesn’t use karma. The way he would revive himself in both cases is exactly the same. The tree doesn’t “help” him come back it’s all karma.

This I can agree with.

If this is accepted we are looking at large planet level otsutsuki’s

 

[Samlex1234]

Because using the tree helps Kinshiki come back again and again. But converting Kinshiki into a fruit without the tree doesn't let Kinshiki use Karma. So the latter option could be a bigger amp immediately, but the reusability of the tree gives them more amps so it's better in the long run.

I don't think it's true that the divine Tree is required to use Karma. Isshiki didn’t need the tree to place Karma on Kawaki. If Isshiki had died, he would have resurrected through Kawaki, regardless of the God Tree's presence. Kinshiki can just keep placing karma on people while momo eats the fruit and they repeat the process they don't need the divine tree.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

If this is accepted we are looking at large planet level otsutsuki’s

Would be awesome

 

[HelloThere1089]

I literally said the novel tells us it’s a recent event happening.

You said Momoshiki eating the last fruit is a recent event. You then said you didn't believe that he would have been on that planet for a thousand years. If you meant the novel tells us that Momoshiki came to the planet for the first time recently, then my bad.

If this is accepted we are looking at large planet level otsutsuki’s

Which is gonna be tough to get accepted but good luck. There are a few counters I believe. One of them being Uzuhiko.

 

[Samlex1234]

I literally said the novel tells us it’s a recent event happening.

No bro read 51 again, kinshiki will not come back from the divine tree if he doesn’t use karma. The way he would revive himself in both cases is exactly the same. The tree doesn’t “help” him come back it’s all karma.

If this is accepted we are looking at large planet level otsutsuki’s

What is your prove that the tree in Momoshiki dimension was recently planted?

 

[Samlex1234]

You said Momoshiki eating the last fruit is a recent event. You then said you didn't believe that he would have been on that planet for a thousand years. If you meant the novel tells us that Momoshiki came to the planet for the first time recently, then my bad.

Which is gonna be tough to get accepted but good luck. There are a few counters I believe. One of them being Uzuhiko.

Uzuhiko is not a counter

 

[HelloThere1089]

Uzuhiko is not a counter

You might not think so, but the mods might. That's what I was stating.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Uzuhiko is not a counter

Doesn't it currently cap anyone <=Boruto to Planet Level?

 

[Samlex1234]

You might not think so, but the mods might. That's what I was stating.

I don't believe so. I mean I have had an argument with just The slayer and that's it.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I don't believe so. I mean I have had an argument with just The slayer and that's it.

My guy I'm just stating a possibility. Slayer already said he believes that. Others could too. I'm just telling sage to prepare for that. What part of this do you not understand?

 

[Samlex1234]

Doesn't it currently cap anyone <=Boruto to Planet Level?

Whew, I honestly don’t want to go into this again, but let’s break it down.

Uzuhiko isn’t limited to just planetary rotation and orbit. It also involves Boruto’s chakra, along with other potential forces we may not be fully aware of.

Thus:

1. Boruto’s chakra + planetary energy
These two might not necessarily add up in a simple 1+1 fashion. As we know different types of energy interacting can create a synergistic effect, resulting in an output far beyond the sum of their parts.

2. Boruto’s chakra + planetary energy + other unknown forces
The presence of these additional forces means the verse’s power isn’t capped at planetary energy alone.

So, Uzuhiko’s power shouldn’t be confined to just the planetary scale. We don't know the exact scale. However it is at least planetary.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Whew, I honestly don’t want to go into this again, but let’s break it down.

Uzuhiko isn’t limited to just planetary rotation and orbit. It also involves Boruto’s chakra, along with other potential forces we may not be fully aware of.

Thus:

1. Boruto’s chakra + planetary energy
These two might not necessarily add up in a simple 1+1 fashion. As we know different types of energy interacting can create a synergistic effect, resulting in an output far beyond the sum of their parts.

2. Boruto’s chakra + planetary energy + other unknown forces
The presence of these additional forces means the verse’s power isn’t capped at planetary energy alone.

So, Uzuhiko’s power shouldn’t be confined to just the planetary scale. We don't know the exact scale. However it is at least planetary.

Ok Bill Nye

 

[Samlex1234]

My guy I'm just stating a possibility. Slayer already said he believes that. Others could too. I'm just telling sage to prepare for that. What part of this do you not understand?

I'm not fighting with you, so relax. Calm down.

'You might not think so, but the mods do.'

You made an absolute statement, and I corrected it.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I'm not fighting with you, so relax. Calm down.

'You might not think so, but the mods do.'

You made an absolute statement, and I corrected it.

own

 

[Samlex1234]

own

This isn't a debate or argument; we're simply having a conversation.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

This isn't a debate or argument; we're simply having a conversation.

owned me

 

[HelloThere1089]

I'm not fighting with you, so relax. Calm down.

'You might not think so, but the mods do.'

You made an absolute statement, and I corrected it.

Don't lie. My comment that you yourself quoted wasn't an absolute statement.

You might not think so, but the mods might. That's what I was stating.

"Might" isn't an absolute statement. Read the stuff you quote smh. And not sure how you are getting that I'm not calm.

Me: The mods might not agree with you
You: I disagree

What do you disagree with? What are you correcting me on? Slayer already does disagree with you so I'm right in saying that there is a possibility there.

 

[Samlex1234]

Don't lie. My comment that you yourself quoted wasn't an absolute statement.

"Might" isn't an absolute statement. Read the stuff you quote smh. And not sure how you are getting that I'm not calm.

Me: The mods might not agree with you
You: I disagree

What do you disagree with? What are you correcting me on? Slayer already does disagree with you so I'm right in saying that there is a possibility there.

Wow I honestly thought I saw do not might. That was an honest mistake i apologise.

 

[Samlex1234]

Don't lie. My comment that you yourself quoted wasn't an absolute statement.

"Might" isn't an absolute statement. Read the stuff you quote smh. And not sure how you are getting that I'm not calm.

Me: The mods might not agree with you
You: I disagree

What do you disagree with? What are you correcting me on? Slayer already does disagree with you so I'm right in saying that there is a possibility there.

My calm down response was to

“What part of this do you not understand?”

 

[HelloThere1089]

Wow I honestly thought I saw do not might. That was an honest mistake i apologise.

No problem

My calm down response was to

“What part of this do you not understand?”

I wasn't angry. I was confused because you were seemingly disagreeing with there being a possibility of disagreement from the mods. So I genuinely asked that.

 

[GTsek]

Please don’t bring up any Kaguya> Momo stuff in 2024 I beg

Nops, don't get me wrong lol. It was just my own personal disbelief. We have cases like: "Boro > Delta" that make the statements a little hard to believe, but what I think what causes this not only in me but in almost the entire fandom is because of how bad the script was done in Boruto. While Madara needed to be taken out of the scene, and Kaguya needed 10 chapters to be defeated (and it was still in a huge PIS), Momoshiki Base proved to be far inferior to Full Naruto and Sasuke. Especially in the manga, besides being marked by the kages, and his fused form also only showed a lot in the anime, and because he was defeated by a super rasengan from base Naruto + Kid Boruto it was something that greatly influenced this view about his strength.

I think the issue of Naruto no longer having the gudoudamas is also a factor, even today many believe that he does not use Rikudō Mode (At least not like before), and there is still information from V-Jump saying that against Delta he only used Sage Mode + Kurama Mode, And in the novel Retsuden it is said that Kurama Mode is his strongest form... Anyway, it was just a rant, I also think that the most obvious thing would be for the new villains to surpass the previous ones, but add all this to the lack of feats in Boruto, it's hard to believe.

 

[Samlex1234]

No problem

I wasn't angry. I was confused because you were seemingly disagreeing with there being a possibility of disagreement from the mods. So I genuinely asked that.

Honest misunderstanding. Sorry about that man.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Doesn't it currently cap anyone <=Boruto to Planet Level?

Indra Susanoo Sasuke - Rinnegan Sasuke>>>Pre-God Tree Juubidara - Rinnegan SM Madara despite them both being the user + Bijuu 1-8 and 50% Kurama

 

[HelloThere1089]

Honest misunderstanding. Sorry about that man.

No problem man. Glad the confusion was cleared up.

Nops, don't get me wrong lol. It was just my own personal disbelief. We have cases like: "Boro > Delta" that make the statements a little hard to believe, but what I think what causes this not only in me but in almost the entire fandom is because of how bad the script was done in Boruto. While Madara needed to be taken out of the scene, and Kaguya needed 10 chapters to be defeated (and it was still in a huge PIS), Momoshiki Base proved to be far inferior to Full Naruto and Sasuke. Especially in the manga, besides being marked by the kages, and his fused form also only showed a lot in the anime, and because he was defeated by a super rasengan from base Naruto + Kid Boruto it was something that greatly influenced this view about his strength.

I think the issue of Naruto no longer having the gudoudamas is also a factor, even today many believe that he does not use Rikudō Mode (At least not like before), and there is still information from V-Jump saying that against Delta he only used Sage Mode + Kurama Mode, And in the novel Retsuden it is said that Kurama Mode is his strongest form... Anyway, it was just a rant, I also think that the most obvious thing would be for the new villains to surpass the previous ones, but add all this to the lack of feats in Boruto, it's hard to believe.

Agree. You know what's funny? I commented this too.