Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[HelloThere1089]

This chapter made Samlex turn poetic.

 

[NemesisZorX]

Spoiler: CHAPTER 14

Koji definitely has allergies to bad covers.

 

[sageof8paths]

How do we feel about roughly quantifying god tree chakra fruit amps?

I have arguments for them being at least a 2x multiplier maybe I’ll share it here or save it for a thread.

“Why is this relevant?”

Kaguya was already scared of momoshiki (before he devoured at least 16 chakra fruits)

 

[HelloThere1089]

How do we feel about roughly quantifying god tree chakra fruit amps?

I have arguments for them being at least a 2x multiplier maybe I’ll share it here or save it for a thread.

It would be better to discuss those arguments first instead of making a thread that is going to fail. Also I can't tell you my thoughts about a multiplier because I don't know how you're gonna justify it.

“Why is this relevant?”

Kaguya was already scared of momoshiki (before he devoured at least 16 chakra fruits)

16 chakra fruits from the same planet right?

 

[sageof8paths]

It would be better to discuss those arguments first instead of making a thread that is going to fail. Also I can't tell you my thoughts about a multiplier because I don't know how you're gonna justify it.

The arguments are based off the fact that:

(Without going into great detail)

1. An otsutsuki is needed to be sacrificed to a 10 tails for it to evolve into a God tree meaning chakra fruit=ten tails+otsutsuki+entire planet.

Basically 1+1 is the same of 1x2

We know otsutsuki can be transformed into fruits themselves to be consumed. This is likely how they do it.

In momo’s case, kinshiki would be the sacrifice.

This is significant because Kaguya is already scared of Momo and kin from thousands of years ago

2. It’s narratively implied that the God tree amp>fused Momo amp.

He views the god tree chakra fruit as a greater form of evolution than kinshiki’s fruit. Otherwise they wouldn’t bother eating planets but rather would eat kinshiki over and over and over (he can just reincarnate) and they share the fruit

16 chakra fruits from the same planet right?

Yeah but I don’t think that’s relevant to my point

 

[HelloThere1089]

The arguments are based off the fact that:

(Without going into great detail)

1. An otsutsuki is needed to be sacrificed to a 10 tails for it to evolve into a God tree meaning chakra fruit=ten tails+otsutsuki+entire planet.

Slight issue. I believe that in Boruto it has been clarified that ten tails specifically extracts the chakra from living beings. Not the planet's chakra. If that's what you meant then ok.

We know otsutsuki can be transformed into fruits themselves to be consumed. This is likely how they do it.

Ok.

In momo’s case, kinshiki would be the sacrifice.

This is significant because Kaguya is already scared of Momo and kin from thousands of years ago

Ok. I do agree that IT Kaguya < a hypothetical Fused Momoshiki from 1000 years ago at least. Without the ETSB of course, although arguments can be made.

2. It’s narratively implied that the God tree amp>fused Momo amp.

He views the god tree chakra fruit as a greater form of evolution than kinshiki’s fruit. Otherwise they wouldn’t bother eating planets but rather would eat kinshiki over and over and over (he can just reincarnate) and they share the fruit

True.

I have a doubt tho. We know that it might be possible to get a chakra fruit without sacrificing an Otsutsuki. Like Kaguya did. So how are you going to justify that Momoshiki sacrificed 16 Otsutsuki?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I can already feel the "But Kaguya bad tho" before even watching this.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I can already feel the "But Kaguya bad tho" before even watching this.

But she kinda bad tho

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

But she kinda bad tho

In what way? If you mean as a character then I kind of agree, but I'm just kind of tired of people harping on the way Madara was replaced. I agree that Zetsu being able to stab Madara like that is clearly PIS since Madara has multifaceted layered sensory precog but still.

 

[HelloThere1089]

In what way? If you mean as a character then I kind of agree, but I'm just kind of tired of people harping on the way Madara was replaced. I agree that Zetsu being able to stab Madara like that is clearly PIS since Madara has multifaceted layered sensory precog but still.

Nah, none of that. I'm saying she kinda bad tho.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Koji looks Dope

 

[Nierre]

Spoiler: Sneak peak act 2

Kakashi Bros in shambles. (I am Kakashi Bros).

Although it was pretty obvious the fifth Shinju was gonna be the same as we saw in chapter 13.

his coat is ******* gas i cant lie

 

[sageof8paths]

Slight issue. I believe that in Boruto it has been clarified that ten tails specifically extracts the chakra from living beings. Not the planet's chakra. If that's what you meant then ok.

I think it’s both but that’s irrelevant to the point.

Ok. I do agree that IT Kaguya < a hypothetical Fused Momoshiki from 1000 years ago at least. Without the ETSB of course, although arguments can be made.

I agree with this as well but it’s also irrelevant to my point a little bit. The point is, Momo and kin at least scale to her from 1000+ years ago and they’ve evolved many times since then

I have a doubt tho. We know that it might be possible to get a chakra fruit without sacrificing an Otsutsuki.

This isn’t true Amado made it clear that u need a sacrifice. This just means Kaguya betrayed isshiki AFTER she resurrected via karma

Like Kaguya did. So how are you going to justify that Momoshiki sacrificed 16 Otsutsuki?

They didn’t sacrifice 16 different otsutsuki’s brother, it was just kinshiki over and over again and he’d revive via karma. That was how it’s explained.

2 pairs, come to a planet, the lesser rank places a karma on someone, the lesser rank is devoured, but comes back via karma. Tree grows and they eat it

 

[Nierre]

anyway his hair looks different from the other version, but his markings are similar if not the same. we still think it's shinki?

 

[HelloThere1089]

This isn’t true Amado made it clear that u need a sacrifice. This just means Kaguya betrayed isshiki AFTER she resurrected via karma

Kaguya ate a chakra fruit right? Who was sacrificed then?

They didn’t sacrifice 16 different otsutsuki’s brother, it was just kinshiki over and over again and he’d revive via karma. That was how it’s explained.

2 pairs, come to a planet, the lesser rank places a karma on someone, the lesser rank is devoured, but comes back via karma. Tree grows and they eat it

Wait really? Damn I never noticed this for some reason. Can you post a scan where this was stated?

 

[SlendVeny]

Spoiler: Sneak peak act 2

Kakashi Bros in shambles. (I am Kakashi Bros).

Although it was pretty obvious the fifth Shinju was gonna be the same as we saw in chapter 13.

Oh... the coat, the hair... they got him.

 

[Samlex1234]

The arguments are based off the fact that:

(Without going into great detail)

1. An otsutsuki is needed to be sacrificed to a 10 tails for it to evolve into a God tree meaning chakra fruit=ten tails+otsutsuki+entire planet.

Basically 1+1 is the same of 1x2

We know otsutsuki can be transformed into fruits themselves to be consumed. This is likely how they do it.

In momo’s case, kinshiki would be the sacrifice.

This is significant because Kaguya is already scared of Momo and kin from thousands of years ago

2. It’s narratively implied that the God tree amp>fused Momo amp.

He views the god tree chakra fruit as a greater form of evolution than kinshiki’s fruit. Otherwise they wouldn’t bother eating planets but rather would eat kinshiki over and over and over (he can just reincarnate) and they share the fruit

Yeah but I don’t think that’s relevant to my point

Hmmm, your argument isn't entirely bad.

However, my main focus is on the fact that when Momoshiki fuses with Kinshiki, their combined power should be considered as an additive enhancement. Since Momoshiki’s base level is relatively equal to Kinshiki’s, their fusion should be viewed as a multiplication of their stats. Therefore, fused momo stats would be effectively doubled, reflecting an increase in power proportional to the combined strength of both characters.

 

[GTsek]

It's hard to believe that Kaguya was afraid of Momoshiki and Kinshiki. It seemed more like a fear of the clan itself, not one or two members. Not to mention that even if it's fear of him, she hadn't seen him for probably thousands of years, in the meantime, just as she had become extremely stronger, there was also the possibility that he had evolved too. It makes sense that she feared not only him but anyone in the clan, after all, she didn't know who would come or how strong is that enemy.

 

[KaydeeX]

 

[GTsek]

Kaguya ate a chakra fruit right? Who was sacrificed then?

There are two ways this could have happened.

1-She did the same thing Isshiki would do before meeting Boruto: She attacked Isshiki, then found a perfect vessel, and after letting herself be devoured by the Juubi, she was resurrected via karma.

2-She let herself be devoured, and after being resurrected via Karma, she attacked Isshiki to get the fruit.

Whether it was one or the other, in the end the result is the same.

 

[HelloThere1089]

It's hard to believe that Kaguya was afraid of Momoshiki and Kinshiki. It seemed more like a fear of the clan itself, not one or two members. Not to mention that even if it's fear of him, she hadn't seen him for probably thousands of years, in the meantime, just as she had become extremely stronger, there was also the possibility that he had evolved too. It makes sense that she feared not only him but anyone in the clan, after all, she didn't know who would come or how strong is that enemy.

Her scroll specifically stated that she was afraid of those two. Sasuke confirms this after the scrolls were translated. Secondly even though she already consumed a chakra fruit, she still went through the trouble of creating a zetsu army just for them. So yeah, it is definitely narratively implied and stated that Momoshiki + Kinshiki > Kaguya.

 

[sageof8paths]

Hmmm, your argument isn't entirely bad.

However, my main focus is on the fact that when Momoshiki fuses with Kinshiki, their combined power should be considered as an additive enhancement. Since Momoshiki’s base level is relatively equal to Kinshiki’s, their fusion should be viewed as a multiplication of their stats. Therefore, fused momo stats would be effectively doubled, reflecting an increase in power proportional to the combined strength of both characters.

Yes I realize it’s an addition. The reason why I said 2x amp is because the next God tree they eat, the sacrifice will be from the evolved state not the previous one. For example 1+1= 2 (evolved state) god tree 2 would then be 2+2. It’s more of an exponential sequence than an addition.

The calc would go smth like Kaguya x (2)^16 to get their ap when they arrive in boruto

But yes I see what you’re saying, the 2x amp is only in relevance to momoshiki and kin.

 

[sageof8paths]

It's hard to believe that Kaguya was afraid of Momoshiki and Kinshiki. It seemed more like a fear of the clan itself, not one or two members. Not to mention that even if it's fear of him, she hadn't seen him for probably thousands of years, in the meantime, just as she had become extremely stronger, there was also the possibility that he had evolved too. It makes sense that she feared not only him but anyone in the clan, after all, she didn't know who would come or how strong is that enemy.

There’s an anime canon scene showing that when she envisioned the clan coming for her, it was Momo kin and urashiki. This was before hagoromo sealed her. Please don’t bring up any Kaguya> Momo stuff in 2024 I beg

 

[SlendVeny]

Yes I realize it’s an addition. The reason why I said 2x amp is because the next God tree they eat, the sacrifice will be from the evolved state not the previous one. For example 1+1= 2 (evolved state) god tree 2 would then be 2+2. It’s more of an exponential sequence than an addition.

The calc would go smth like Kaguya x (2)^16 to get their ap when they arrive in boruto

The tree doesn't get twice as strong.

 

[sageof8paths]

The tree doesn't get twice as strong.

I’m saying the sacrifice does, therefore the next tree they eat still has that bare minimum fusion amp that Momo and kin did.

Tree formula= ten tails+otsutsuki+planet

If the otsutsuki is twice as strong as before, the total amp is at least twice

 

[Samlex1234]

Could you provide a scan that shows they consumed over 16 fruits between their last encounter with Kaguya and their arrival in Boruto?

 

[HelloThere1089]

So if I am understanding this correctly:

1. a Shinju chakra fruit > simply eating an Otsutsuki like Momo did to Kin.

2. Momo eating Kin is Momo + Kin since they are relative to each other.

3. Every shinju tree therefore must be a greater amp than just an addition of the pair of Otsutsuki.

4. Each time the Otsutsuki that gets sacrificed, comes back via Karma. (scan would be appreciated)

Now I need to know how you're gonna justify the pair being/staying relative to each other. Are you saying that Karmic ressurection is an equal amp to eating a chakra fruit?

 

[Testarossa002]

It's hard to believe that Kaguya was afraid of Momoshiki and Kinshiki. It seemed more like a fear of the clan itself, not one or two members. Not to mention that even if it's fear of him, she hadn't seen him for probably thousands of years, in the meantime, just as she had become extremely stronger, there was also the possibility that he had evolved too. It makes sense that she feared not only him but anyone in the clan, after all, she didn't know who would come or how strong is that enemy.

This is all well and good except for the small part where Kaguya's scroll blatantly mention Kinshiki and Momoshiki as the pair that she's worried about
Also, it's highly likely that she hasn't seen momoshiki for, at best, 100 years since she arrived on earth. Not thousands. I doubt she was roaming around for 1000 years before she gave birth to Hagoromo and Hamura

 

[sageof8paths]

Could you provide a scan that shows they consumed over 16 fruits between their last encounter with Kaguya and their arrival in Boruto?

I’m to lazy to create an imgur link.

Literally just search up momoshiki 16 chakra fruits an image will appear.

 

[HelloThere1089]

This is all well and good except for the small part where Kaguya's scroll blatantly mention Kinshiki and Momoshiki as the pair that she's worried about
Also, it's highly likely that she hasn't seen momoshiki for, at best, 100 years since she arrived on earth. Not thousands. I doubt she was roaming around for 1000 years before she gave birth to Hagoromo and Hamura

A meta explanation would be that Kishimoto wanted a villain stronger than Kaguya right off the bat, but Momoshiki not having the war arc build up combined with Boruto's general lack of feats make him seem weaker than he is. Also nostalgia from fans and stuff. If we go by just info without any personal feelings, then it is pretty clear that author intent was for Momo to be > Kaguya. But people can't believe that, as evident by how many hoops they have to go through to discredit numerous statements. Which is fine, but doesn't change the facts.

 

[sageof8paths]

So if I am understanding this correctly:

1. a Shinju chakra fruit > simply eating an Otsutsuki like Momo did to Kin.

Yes

2. Momo eating Kin is Momo + Kin since they are relative to each other.

Yes

3. Every shinju tree therefore must be a greater amp than just an addition of the pair of Otsutsuki.

Yes

4. Each time the Otsutsuki that gets sacrificed, comes back via Karma. (scan would be appreciated)

Yes. Go to chapter 51 of boruto nng, Amado states it

Now I need to know how you're gonna justify the pair being/staying relative to each other. Are you saying that Karmic ressurection is an equal amp to eating a chakra fruit?

They both share the fruit, Amado stated this. Therefore get a similar amp. Amado theorized Kaguya betrayed isshiki because she didn’t wanna share the fruit.

Karmic resurrection isn’t an amp as far as I know and I never implied or argued it was. They come back to life before the tree is ready and eat the fruit

 

[Samlex1234]

Wow this is crazy thinking about it. Karmic resurrection is literally an infinite power glitch.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This thumbnail goes hard though, I can't even lie.

 

[Samlex1234]

Even without absorbing all the planet’s chakra, karmic resurrection is crazy. Momo consumes Kinshiki’s chakra fruit, resurrects through karma, and then consumes him again. This cycle repeats over thousands of years. And on top of that, they still manage to absorb all the chakra on planet, including the planet’s energy itself.

 

[sageof8paths]

Yeah that’s how Amado describes it tbh. They’re tryna become 4d so makes sense lmao

 

[HelloThere1089]

Just reread chapter 51 and I can't believe I forgot all about this.

Another issue I have though: How will you justify that the 16 chakra fruits that Momoshiki ate, were eaten between the time when Kaguya last saw him and Boruto era?

Edit: Also, can I get a scan for Chakra fruit from shinju being better than the one Kinshiki was turned into? I remember that being implied but forgot where.

 

[Samlex1234]

Yeah, that’s how Amado describes it tbh.

Bro looks like you are working day and night to upgrade the verse because all this information is crazy. I have never thought of it like that honestly.

 

[Samlex1234]

I’m to lazy to create an imgur link.

Literally just search up momoshiki 16 chakra fruits an image will appear.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I am so glad that I defended Shikamaru being the hokage:

Spoiler: Chapter 14

Goated character. Not sure how Omnipotence is getting circumvented by just believing.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

i definitely think naruto was mental amps.

The problem is that both when he first unlocked KCM and when he supposedly got a mental amp, he was compared to the Yellow Flash

Sure I'm not trying to scale naruto to hokage minato
Raikage was the only one so fast madara had to block with susanoo and could not dodge.

I don't think him choosing to use Susanoo proves he couldn't dodge. He was able to react to KCM2 Naruto physically, I really doubt he had trouble with Ay's speed.

He even complemented his speed.

Cause he'd still be one of the fastest shinobi Madara has seen

The rest people he stated that he purposely got hit by their attacks just to show hashirama's face. He also made a note to say tsunade is slower than the raikage

You know he also used Susanoo to block Tsunade right

You are theory crafting here. This is just a statement of fact from Minato acknowledging the situation. Nothing is implied beyond that.

This isn't a theory when he literally implemented a plan that takes this factor into account right after. What do you think FTG level 2 even is? It's a response to Obito phasing through Minato when he simply attacks head on.

The thing you’re failing to acknowledge is that outside of FTG usage, Minato has failed to tag Obito in every instance he tries.

I'm aware? That's literally the reason Minato tried a different approach.

This statement from Minato, again, is just a statement of fact. There is no implication carried that says Minato held back his speed.

No it's not, he said he needs to time his attack precisely, then he follows this up by timing his attack precisely, attacking just when Obito thinks he's won

Remember, right after this statement, Minato acknowledges he “could” very well lose this exchange: “This is all going to be over for one of us in an instant!” — Which actually implies the opposite of what you’re saying.

If he doesn't activate FTG at the right time he could lose, and he technically says it'll be decided by who's faster, and Minato won, so...
どっちの攻撃が相手より一瞬速いかで決まる!

Again, you are theory crafting here. Nothing here is implied to mean he held back his speed. Nothing he showcased implies that either. Kishimoto is writing Minato to understand and recognize Obito’s abilities and fighting style, similarly Konan. Nothing more.

Kishimoto made Minato understand and recognize Obito's abilities and fighting style, then craft a solution. I don't know why you keep ignoring that FTG level 2 is a blatant follow up to everything he was talking about in the previous page. If his plan was simply to slightly outspeed Obito and tag him with the Rasengan before Obito touched him, why did he throw the FTG kunai behind Obito?

This isn’t relevant. Obito had no need to extend his arm and he would’ve beat Minato in this specific exchange sans FTG, which is what is shown and implied.

He needed to extend his arm to touch Minato

So yes, Obito’s Combat Speed and Movement Speed would be Relative to “Slightly” Faster than Minato’s based on this and using a scan where his arm is extend vs Obito, who didn’t require his arm to be extended and simply needed “touch”, is a bit disingenuous, don’t you think?

Not really, at worst it's a 50/50 on whether he was still extending his arm after he saw Minato disappear, but either way his body was absolutely still moving forward given that he was mid air from his leap forward.