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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

MasqueTLDF said:
That doesn't necessarily mean that it's infinite, the jutsu could have other limiting factors.
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She created said dimensions and connected all 6 of them. This alone is a Low 2-C feat.. Regarding the infinite size, I don't think it would matter anyway her dimensions were stated to be space times, which would be Low 2-C anyway.. also stated to be parallel universes in databook.
 
Ar1216789 said:
She created said dimensions and connected all 6 of them. This alone is a Low 2-C feat.. Regarding the infinite size, I don't think it would matter anyway her dimensions were stated to be space times, which would be Low 2-C anyway.. also stated to be parallel universes in databook.
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A dimension doesn't exactly denote any specific size, it's just a form of measurement. A dimension could be the size of a grain of rice or as big as a universe. Them having time wouldn't affect anything either as all 3D objects are affected by time, regardless of size. If there were reliable statements that showed that they were universe sized or larger, maybe then they could get accepted as Low 2-C depending on the consistency. So it wouldn't exactly be Low 2-C, and I'm kinda iffy on the use of databooks at all in Naruto (AP/Speed) scaling as there's a lot of hyperbole and mistranslations.
 
MasqueTLDF said:
A dimension doesn't exactly denote any specific size, it's just a form of measurement. A dimension could be the size of a grain of rice or as big as a universe. Them having time wouldn't affect anything either as all 3D objects are affected by time, regardless of size. If there were reliable statements that showed that they were universe sized or larger, maybe then they could get accepted as Low 2-C depending on the consistency. So it wouldn't exactly be Low 2-C, and I'm kinda iffy on the use of databooks at all in Naruto (AP/Speed) scaling as there's a lot of hyperbole and mistranslations.
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I explained parallel universes, and why there isn't a hyperbole. There already a day and night cycle in her dimensions with some even containing stars. Her dimensions being a space-time continuum is a 4D structure that she can easily create, destroy, and connect. 3D objects are affected by the flow of time, but as a whole, they are not 4D, thats an entirely different subject that conflicts with the Standards of the wiki. The Wiki confuses me sometimes.
 
Ar1216789 said:
I explained parallel universes, and why there is a hyperbole.
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Unrelated but Nier OSTs are so relaxing.

Low 2-C: Universe level+​


Characters or objects whose power is uncountably infinitely greater than the prior tiers. That is to say, they can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that exceed lesser objects by an uncountably infinite margin. An example of this being 4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size, but can be generalized to any 4-dimensional structure of a similar scope.

2-C would require multiple of these.
Ar1216789 said:
Theres already a day and night cycle in her dimensions with some even containing stars.
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I don't remember this exactly but if there were multiple then maybe she could be 4-A over time?
Ar1216789 said:
Her Databooks being a space-time continuum is a 4D structure that she can easily create, destroy, and connect. 3D objects are affected by the flow of time, but as a whole, they are not 4D, thats an entirely different subject that conflicts with the Standards of the wiki. The Wiki confuses me sometimes.
Click to expand...
FRA
 
MasqueTLDF said:
Unrelated but Nier OSTs are so relaxing.

Low 2-C: Universe level+​


Characters or objects whose power is uncountably infinitely greater than the prior tiers. That is to say, they can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that exceed lesser objects by an uncountably infinite margin. An example of this being 4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size, but can be generalized to any 4-dimensional structure of a similar scope.

2-C would require multiple of these.

I don't remember this exactly but if there were multiple then maybe she could be 4-A over time?

FRA
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Not overtime by ETSO. She create them and connected them so Low 2-C anyway. I gtg sleep bye now, I'll respond tmrw. I'll do a more brief explanation tmw
 
There's some evidence to suggest that Kaguya's dimensions are prob universe sized or at least as big as the main universe in the post naruto era, the issue is that theres less evidence to suggest that Kaguya was going to destroy the entire dimension as oppose to their immediate space (the Kanji isnt even the same as the one they use to describe the parallel universes and or dimensions), which can range from anywhere from Planet level to solar system level, but even if we were to be charitable and say Kaguya had a universal level ETSB, it would be a massive Outlier for any scaling purposes because characters stronger than that version of Kaguya fear and can be harmed by things significantly below Universe level. in which case i dont think its really a great or consistent meta to use outside of trying to find a hypothetical maximum potential for scaling.

also connecting the dimensions isnt an AP feat, her ability as described in the databook is basically like summoning the dimension, which per obito's words requires a massive amount of chakra but its not a direct AP feat.
 
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Shadowbokunohero said:
There's some evidence to suggest that Kaguya's dimensions are prob universe sized or at least as big as the main universe in the post naruto era, the issue is that theres less evidence to suggest that Kaguya was going to destroy the entire dimension as oppose to their immediate space (the Kanji isnt even the same as the one they use to describe the parallel universes and or dimensions), which can range from anywhere from Planet level to solar system level, but even if we were to be charitable and say Kaguya had a universal level ETSB, it would be a massive Outlier for any scaling purposes because characters stronger than that version of Kaguya fear and can be harmed by things significantly below Universe level. in which case i dont think its really a great or consistent meta to use outside of trying to find a hypothetical maximum potential for scaling.

also connecting the dimensions isnt an AP feat, her ability as described in the databook is basically like summoning the dimension, which per obito's words requires a massive amount of chakra but its not a direct AP feat.
Click to expand...
What about creating her dimensions? I've seen several proofs of the dimensions being universal in size, the Kanji for space-time is 時空: Spacetime In physics, spacetime (or space-time, space time, space-time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space as being three-dimensional and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions. From a Euclidean space perspective, the universe has three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. Something notable about her technique name.. also Viz translation in the one to be used since its a universally accepted translation, the reason its spelled "time-space" is because the Kanji is spelled backward and Japanese translators right it as "time-spaces" instead of "space-time." She created said dimensions, backed up by the manga when the ETSO's purpose was to destroy the space-time and recreate it. The databook also implies she can create dimension a she pleases, and don't even start pulling the "it wasn't her chakra" arguement. That's dumb for several reasons. 1. All Chakra is Kaguya's chakra. It's her taking back the Chakra thats hers. 2. She can contain the chakra and thus scales to it, now like how Madara exploded due to absorbing Chakra he can't contain, which implies he doesn't scale to.

Another matter, why don't Naruto and Sasuke scale to Kaguya, they've surpassed her power. That alone should get them to 4-C. When I saw Naruto's profile I was shocked tbh, Naruto Moon Level? This is like making 60 Joinin = Naruto. Juubitos is already Planetary, I don't get why he would only erase the surface. Nor does the reasoning of the wiki seem justified by the evidence.
 
Oof. There are a lot of outdated and debunked arguments in there. I'm not gonna butt in, but I wanted to point out that, all chakra on Earth is not Kaguya's. Everything already has chakra. Hagoromo only spread the knowledge of molding chakra and Indra introduced jutsus or sumn. But Earth and earthlings already had all the chakra. All chakra on Earth combined = Kaguya's chakra doesn't even make sense logically. Everytime someone gives birth, the amount of chakra in the system will increase. Chakra isn't conserved like that. Kaguya is just arrogant and thinks she deserves all the chakra on Earth because she targeted it and wanted to suck all of it using the God tree but failed.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
There's some evidence to suggest that Kaguya's dimensions are prob universe sized or at least as big as the main universe in the post naruto era, the issue is that theres less evidence to suggest that Kaguya was going to destroy the entire dimension as oppose to their immediate space (the Kanji isnt even the same as the one they use to describe the parallel universes and or dimensions), which can range from anywhere from Planet level to solar system level, but even if we were to be charitable and say Kaguya had a universal level ETSB, it would be a massive Outlier for any scaling purposes because characters stronger than that version of Kaguya fear and can be harmed by things significantly below Universe level. in which case i dont think its really a great or consistent meta to use outside of trying to find a hypothetical maximum potential for scaling.

also connecting the dimensions isnt an AP feat, her ability as described in the databook is basically like summoning the dimension, which per obito's words requires a massive amount of chakra but its not a direct AP feat.
Click to expand...
Dont see a problem with scaling if accepted. The explanation is Kaguya's immortality can bypass the universal AP.
Mid-god level resurrection exists in-verse.

The move would end up being a suicide move, or Kaguya is just straight-up immune to ETSB.
 
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that isnt what i said, i said that you cant have them reasonably scale to Universal level in terms of their stats even if the ETSB was universal
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Oof. There are a lot of outdated and debunked arguments in there. I'm not gonna butt in, but I wanted to point out that, all chakra on Earth is not Kaguya's. Everything already has chakra. Hagoromo only spread the knowledge of molding chakra and Indra introduced jutsus or sumn. But Earth and earthlings already had all the chakra. All chakra on Earth combined = Kaguya's chakra doesn't even make sense logically. Everytime someone gives birth, the amount of chakra in the system will increase. Chakra isn't conserved like that. Kaguya is just arrogant and thinks she deserves all the chakra on Earth because she targeted it and wanted to suck all of it using the God tree but failed.
Click to expand...
I suspect that if we end up getting the lore, all chakra on earth and in the universe may likely originate from the Shinju. I think Kaguya was speaking as one with the Shinju.
 
Kayzz said:
I suspect that if we end up getting the lore, all chakra on earth and in the universe may likely originate from the Shinju. I think Kaguya was speaking as one with the Shinju.
Click to expand...
Even if we do get anything like that, it would still not mean that all chakra on Earth = Kaguya's Chakra. In the same way Boruto and Himawari's chakra isn't Naruto's chakra. But I get what you mean.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
that isnt what i said, i said that you cant have them reasonably scale to Universal level in terms of their stats even if the ETSB was universal
Click to expand...
Can a 'likely higher' be added?
Or was it specifically stated that it was the root dimension she would destroy? However, it should be noted Kakashi feared they wouldn't be able to return.
 
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Ar1216789 said:
What about creating her dimensions? I've seen several proofs of the dimensions being universal in size, the Kanji for space-time is 時空: Spacetime In physics, spacetime (or space-time, space time, space-time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space as being three-dimensional and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions. From a Euclidean space perspective, the universe has three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. Something notable about her technique name.. also Viz translation in the one to be used since its a universally accepted translation, the reason its spelled "time-space" is because the Kanji is spelled backward and Japanese translators right it as "time-spaces" instead of "space-time." She created said dimensions, backed up by the manga when the ETSO's purpose was to destroy the space-time and recreate it. The databook also implies she can create dimension a she pleases, and don't even start pulling the "it wasn't her chakra" arguement. That's dumb for several reasons. 1. All Chakra is Kaguya's chakra. It's her taking back the Chakra thats hers. 2. She can contain the chakra and thus scales to it, now like how Madara exploded due to absorbing Chakra he can't contain, which implies he doesn't scale to.

Another matter, why don't Naruto and Sasuke scale to Kaguya, they've surpassed her power. That alone should get them to 4-C. When I saw Naruto's profile I was shocked tbh, Naruto Moon Level? This is like making 60 Joinin = Naruto. Juubitos is already Planetary, I don't get why he would only erase the surface. Nor does the reasoning of the wiki seem justified by the evidence.
Click to expand...
Was that kanji specifically used in the manga?

The problem is Kaguya's dimension was stated to be just six in number. How would you reconcile six dimensions with universe size?
 
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ssgengar said:
I do. The fights are cool but I’m dying to see the story get fleshed out a bit more
Click to expand...
Real. I'm tryna get some lore out here. Stuff like where the Otsutsussy comes from and what did Momo mean by them altering Shinobi history. But I'm not sure if we are specifically getting more wordbuilding or not in this chapter. Just that it might be an interesting info dump.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Oof. There are a lot of outdated and debunked arguments in there. I'm not gonna butt in, but I wanted to point out that, all chakra on Earth is not Kaguya's. Everything already has chakra. Hagoromo only spread the knowledge of molding chakra and Indra introduced jutsus or sumn. But Earth and earthlings already had all the chakra. All chakra on Earth combined = Kaguya's chakra doesn't even make sense logically. Everytime someone gives birth, the amount of chakra in the system will increase. Chakra isn't conserved like that. Kaguya is just arrogant and thinks she deserves all the chakra on Earth because she targeted it and wanted to suck all of it using the God tree but failed.
Click to expand...
She's the Mother of All Chakra. Hagoromo and Hamura's influence spread out this Chakra, it's her Chakra. That has been passed onto her kids then everyone else. She's merely taking back what's hers. And I've already explained before if she contains it, she scales to it. Further backing up my claims.
 
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