Naruto: Shippuden Akatsuki (+others) AP upgrade

[Wuke]

Prove the others are dumber.
Maliciousness came from it's nature, people treated him like shit.

Perfectly illogical bs that makes explosion based moves that turn mountains into dust look like useless feats.

What the hell are you talking about, you can see that she's unconscious with sharp objects in her body + a ritual being done

Prove Kakuzu did it

Kakuzu didn't do shit, and slow attack speed doesn't mean slow in general with someone compared to Asuma and Kakashi

So Shikamaru scales to/above Bijuu, alright.
Shikamaru's pops basically said he couldn't do shit to Pain.
6 tails Naruto bodied pain.
6 tails Naruto >>>>>>>>>>> Pain > Shikamaru > all the other Bijuu for some reason.
Makes perfect sense.

I'm referring to far earlier

Yes

This is the exact same Choji + a few days that fought Pain. Pain's fight was barely after the Akatsuki members' deaths. Don't give excuses.

Where was it stated that all edo tensei are weakened? That was mainly for people under the users' strength.

do you not remember itachi and kisame literally knocking on the door to get naruto? thats a separate incident than the one you posted the scan of. kurama has better intellegence feats so he's likely the smartest, yeah, and we know that can affect chakra, that helps my argument. whats the inconsistency for ms sasuke scaling there? you realize he was sent there to take out the 8 tails yeah? also the kusanagi blade is super strong as well. how is it illogical? you're just arguing from incredulity. yeah, we know she was in fully transformed bijuu state, so she mustve been bullied back to base form. we see kakuzu fight her, and he can react to and match her striking strength easily. shikamaru doesnt scale there, only all those bijuu bombs would. already outlined why the paper bombs arent outliers. 6 tails naruto doesnt really do anything to pain in the manga, which is the source material. theres also no problems with 6 tails naruto being above normal bijuu level, since we see the difference in strength between half kurama and 5 other bijuu. with the edo tensei thing im making an inductive claim, that given we see that many characters are weakened, hashirama, tobirama, madara, are good examples, who are DEFINITELY stronger than sage kabuto. are you implying asuma is stronger than sage kabuto? the scan you posted just says that kakuzu tanked the attack no problem.

 

[Wuke]

All the Sannin are equal
4t Naruto > Base Jiraiya ~ Tsunade > Madara's Ribcage

When did 4T Naruto become a damn god tier?

definitely not. 4t naruto near deathed jiraiya, base tsunade near deathed jiraiya, and madara is severly holding back during that fight. whats the antifeat for madara's ribcage? plus that tsunade is way later in the story and likely stronger as well. the sannin arent god tiers either

 

[Wuke]

Based off of association fallacy from 8 Tails who almost died from a relatively small Bijuudama

almost died? you realize bijuu are just chakra entities right? so if they are using chakra to produce this bijuubomb, they have to scale to it. and this isnt an association fallacy because its stated that the bijuu plural are chakra monsters.

 

[KingTempest]

Go downgrade the bijuu, until then the point stands.

Shit, well this is a downgrade thread from this point on.

Jiraiya is not equal to Byakugou Tsunade, he’s not even equal to base Tsunade considering that she nearly beat him to death.

When did Byakugou raise AP? It was stated to regen the user, not raise AP.
And Base Tsunade beat him to death as a comedic scene Tracer, not every comedy is deadass.

do you not remember itachi and kisame literally knocking on the door to get naruto? thats a separate incident than the one you posted the scan of.

He's talking to Sasuke about when he came to the village after the death of Hiruzen, which is the exact same time period as before. Do you know what a retcon is?

kurama has better intellegence feats so he's likely the smartest, yeah,

Since we only see him for the entire show.
Rock Lee has better speed feats than Hagoromo, I guess Hagoromo's slow then.

and we know that can affect chakra, that helps my argument.

ignoring this since i don't see what this has to do for my point.

whats the inconsistency for ms sasuke scaling there? you realize he was sent there to take out the 8 tails yeah? also the kusanagi blade is super strong as well. how is it illogical?

Wasn't MS Sasuke the same one struggling with a V1 Cloak Ay who scales below 3rd Raikage Ay who scales = to Gyuki...
MS Sasuke < V1 Ay < 3rd Raikage ~ Gyuki < Ms Sasuke... oh wow

you're just arguing from incredulity. yeah, we know she was in fully transformed bijuu state, so she mustve been bullied back to base form.

A smaller one from before, which means less chakra, which means weaker, woah.

we see kakuzu fight her, and he can react to and match her striking strength easily.

Send a scan of Kakuzu fighting her.

shikamaru doesnt scale there, only all those bijuu bombs would. already outlined why the paper bombs arent outliers.

You said "it can't be" now says "already outlined"

6 tails naruto doesnt really do anything to pain in the manga, which is the source material. theres also no problems with 6 tails naruto being above normal bijuu level, since we see the difference in strength between half kurama and 5 other bijuu. with the edo tensei thing im making an inductive claim, that given we see that many characters are weakened, hashirama, tobirama, madara, are good examples, who are DEFINITELY stronger than sage kabuto.

Madara who was weakened since he scales higher than Kabuto and Kabuto couldn't control him. Everyone else was from Orochimaru.

are you implying asuma is stronger than sage kabuto?

No, I'm implying that Sage Kabuto > Asuma, which is why he would bring him back to his regular strength.

the scan you posted just says that kakuzu tanked the attack no problem.

After he hardened his body, implying that his regular dura would've been harmed.

 

[KingTempest]

almost died? you realize bijuu are just chakra entities right? so if they are using chakra to produce this bijuubomb, they have to scale to it.

No.
Explosions are caused by nuclear reactions. It's not just the chakra that brings that AP, it's the reaction w/ the environment.
The chakra is the regular balls, the explosion is the reaction.
Or if we don't agree, I guess tired Gyuki scales to the Juubi for holding back his ball pre explosion.

and this isnt an association fallacy because its stated that the bijuu plural are chakra monsters.

Kurama's a chakra monster too, association fallacy for Kurama for some reason,

 

[Arcker123]

Shit, well this is a downgrade thread from this point on.

While you’re at it, go calc the small bijuu bomb, if individual bijuu produce 6-C bijuu bombs, why assume this to be different.

 

[KingTempest]

if individual bijuu produce 6-C bijuu bombs, why assume this to be different.

Because those were the ones charged up for a long period of time and they were relatively larger than the one that Bee "tanked".

Eyeballing it, I don't see anything above 7-A for that garbo bijuudama.

 

[LordTracer]

When did Byakugou raise AP? It was stated to regen the user, not raise AP.
And Base Tsunade beat him to death as a comedic scene Tracer, not every comedy is deadass.

Based on direct feats, Byakugou is stronger than base Tsunade. And Jiraiya references her beating him nearly to death in a completely serious scene, in case you forgot.

 

[KingTempest]

Based on direct feats, Byakugou is stronger than base Tsunade.

Literally not a single comparison is drawn. Byakugou Tsunade has 1 fight, one, and all we see with it is against Madara. She has no shown or stated AP boost.

And Jiraiya references her beating him nearly to death in a completely serious scene, in case you forgot.

So Jiraiya spying on a naked girl in a women's bath and getting punched for it is a super serious scene. Ok Tracer.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Bijuu Bomb's power varies depends on how much chakra Bijuu puts into it. But I'm pretty sure Bijuu Bomb obliterates most of the Akatsuki Members if it hits them, so no Kakuzu should not scale to it.

You're pretty sure? You definitely need more than that lmao, it's a bad argument.

 

[Wuke]

Shit, well this is a downgrade thread from this point on.

When did Byakugou raise AP? It was stated to regen the user, not raise AP.
And Base Tsunade beat him to death as a comedic scene Tracer, not every comedy is deadass.

He's talking to Sasuke about when he came to the village after the death of Hiruzen, which is the exact same time period as before. Do you know what a retcon is?

Since we only see him for the entire show.
Rock Lee has better speed feats than Hagoromo, I guess Hagoromo's slow then.

ignoring this since i don't see what this has to do for my point.

Wasn't MS Sasuke the same one struggling with a V1 Cloak Ay who scales below 3rd Raikage Ay who scales = to Gyuki...
MS Sasuke < V1 Ay < 3rd Raikage ~ Gyuki < Ms Sasuke... oh wow

A smaller one from before, which means less chakra, which means weaker, woah.

Send a scan of Kakuzu fighting her.

You said "it can't be" now says "already outlined"

Madara who was weakened since he scales higher than Kabuto and Kabuto couldn't control him. Everyone else was from Orochimaru.

No, I'm implying that Sage Kabuto > Asuma, which is why he would bring him back to his regular strength.

After he hardened his body, implying that his regular dura would've been harmed.

bottom left

itachi comes to the village with kisame and fights kakashi/asuma, and then in a separate instance goes after naruto when hes with jiraiya. not a retcon

hagoromo scales to kaguya, nice try

how in the hell are you getting 3rd raikage over v1? are you talking about the raikage who is stronger than bee, a perfect jinchuuriki, who is above the 8 tails which is the highest thing the third raikage scales to?

you're presupposing her output changes, assuming that kishimoto ALWAYS draws the bijuu to scale, which you havent and cant prove. its not like you use all your reserves of chakra at once

im saying shikamarus ap doesnt have to scale to the paper bombs, i already outlined why the PAPER BOMBS scaling there is ine

utter headcanon. orochimaru also has kabutos edo tensei

if you are ok with hardened kakuzu scaling to 6c, im fine with that

 

[LordTracer]

Literally not a single comparison is drawn. Byakugou Tsunade has 1 fight, one, and all we see with it is against Madara. She has no shown or stated AP boost.

Wuke ninja-d me on that, but there’s also the fact that Base Tsunade has shown zero feats of harming an opponent on the level of Uchiha goddamn Madara.

So Jiraiya spying on a naked girl in a women's bath and getting punched for it is a super serious scene. Ok Tracer.

This is what I’m referring to, thank you very much. This is not a comedic scene.

 

[Wuke]

No.
Explosions are caused by nuclear reactions. It's not just the chakra that brings that AP, it's the reaction w/ the environment.
The chakra is the regular balls, the explosion is the reaction.
Or if we don't agree, I guess tired Gyuki scales to the Juubi for holding back his ball pre explosion.

Kurama's a chakra monster too, association fallacy for Kurama for some reason,

no, bee wouldnt scale, since its visibely causing him immense pain and he only is able to hold it for a short time
yes, it is the chakra, chakra is what is used to amp stats, and jutsu is just chakra manifested

i already steelmanned the last point, you'd have to show why her output changed

 

[Kin201]

You're pretty sure? You definitely need more than that lmao, it's a bad argument.

The bad argument is that we're assuming Kakashi, Kakuzu and Sakura's punches being comparable to TBBs.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I don’t care about the current debate, i’m very much so not caught up in this thread, “i’m pretty sure” is not an argument. That’s all I came to say. I’ll read through the thread later, i’m doing stuff.

 

[Wuke]

Wuke ninja-d me on that, but there’s also the fact that Base Tsunade has shown zero feats of harming an opponent on the level of Uchiha goddamn Madara.

This is what I’m referring to, thank you very much. This is not a comedic scene.

yeah thats not the only instance either

The bad argument is that we're assuming Kakashi, Kakuzu and Sakura's punches being comparable to TBBs.

no we're not assuming, we're providing evidence. you have yet to list any antifeats, and saying the akatsuki scale below the bijuu literally would not allow the story of naruto to happen. this shouldnt even have to be a thread. it should be BLATANTLY OBVIOUS to anyone that paid attention while watching the show that the akatsuki were MEANT to and ACTUALLY DO kill bijuu/jinchuuriki

 

[KingTempest]

bottom left

Fair

itachi comes to the village with kisame and fights kakashi/asuma, and then in a separate instance goes after naruto when hes with jiraiya. not a retcon

It's literally the same damn day, same exact timeperiod.

hagoromo scales to kaguya, nice try

Akekekekekeke

how in the hell are you getting 3rd raikage over v1? are you talking about the raikage who is stronger than bee, a perfect jinchuuriki, who is above the 8 tails which is the highest thing the third raikage scales to?

V1 Lightning cloak Ay, not v1 Jin

you're presupposing her output changes, assuming that kishimoto ALWAYS draws the bijuu to scale, which you havent and cant prove. its not like you use all your reserves of chakra at once

So he made them much larger during the war and why? Scenes where they are focused on like this with the most detail arethe most important ones.

With your scan of Kakuzu blocking her attack, you see her palm comparable to the size of his body. Go around where the bijuu fight Kakashi and Guy and tell me if it's the same.

im saying shikamarus ap doesnt have to scale to the paper bombs, i already outlined why the PAPER BOMBS scaling there is ine utter headcanon.

So hurting someone is headcanon. Ok,

orochimaru also has kabutos edo tensei

Orochimaru's Edo Tensei ≠ Kabuto's Edo Tensei

if you are ok with hardened kakuzu scaling to 6c, im fine with that

You're okay with Baby Naruto scaling to Isshiki, idc w/ you're fine with,

 

[Kin201]

no we're not assuming, we're providing evidence. you have yet to list any antifeats, and saying the akatsuki scale below the bijuu literally would not allow the story of naruto to happen. this shouldnt even have to be a thread. it should be BLATANTLY OBVIOUS to anyone that paid attention while watching the show that the akatsuki were MEANT to and ACTUALLY DO kill bijuu/jinchuuriki

A single punch from Kakashi or Sakura can produce as much force as a Bijuu Bomb? The story of naruto will not allow that either.

 

[KingTempest]

no, bee wouldnt scale, since its visibely causing him immense pain and he only is able to hold it for a short time

What pain?

yes, it is the chakra, chakra is what is used to amp stats, and jutsu is just chakra manifested

Again, please counter my argument about science with "it's the chakra". Explosions are caused by reactions.
Those balls of chakra are dogshit, they don't do anything comparable to the actual explosion.
When the hell was chakra ever used to regularly amp stats? That's fan headcanon.
It's stated earlier in the series that people rarely use chakra for stats.

 

[KingTempest]

A single punch from Kakashi or Sakura can produce as much force as a Bijuu Bomb? The story of naruto will not allow that either.

Kakashi with help was struggling to fight them with Version 2 -_-

They don't care about the story of Naruto when it's not beneficial

 

[Wuke]

yeah thats not the only instance either

no we're not assuming, we're providing evidence. you have yet to list any antifeats, and saying the akatsuki scale below the bijuu literally would not allow the story of naruto to happen. this shouldnt even have to be a thread. it should be BLATANTLY OBVIOUS to anyone that paid attention while watching the show that the akatsuki were MEANT to and ACTUALLY DO kill bijuu/jinchuuriki

ok, so then obito didnt give the full reasoning, doesnt mean that didnt happen lmao, like, we know they were sent to get naruto.

when did i bring up v1 jins? i scaled v1 ay>bee>gyuki~3rd raikage

you havent responded to the output argument. cmon.

the utter headcanon was in response to how you described the edo tensei jutsu functioning

this upgrade doesnt mean shikamaru 6-c

orochimaru says he instructed all intel from kabuto, and tobirama says that he was revived near his original power, while part one oro summons were demonstrably way weaker

??? it seemed your contention was with base kakuzu not scaling there, but if you agree with his hardening jutsu being there then kakuzu can just be 6-c with the jutsu, which is fine

 

[Wuke]

A single punch from Kakashi or Sakura can produce as much force as a Bijuu Bomb? The story of naruto will not allow that either.

still havent provided evidence. cringe.

 

[KingTempest]

ok, so then obito didnt give the full reasoning, doesnt mean that didnt happen lmao, like, we know they were sent to get naruto.

Obito: Itachi came for the sole purpose of doing this. Sasuke was only there when he came for Naruto.
@Wuke: He came for Naruto, idc what Obito says

 

[Axxtentacle]

Wasn't there something in the Kakashi novel about ninjas using chakra to amp their physicals?

 

[KingTempest]

Wasn't there something in the Kakashi novel about ninjas using chakra to amp their physicals?

That was a fake statement from a Seth video, i scanned both novels and it said nothing about it

 

[Axxtentacle]

That was a fake statement from a Seth video, i scanned both novels and it said nothing about it

Ah, ok. I don't remember where I heard it from but I don't think it was Seth, but i'll take your word for it ig.

 

[Wuke]

What pain?

Again, please counter my argument about science with "it's the chakra". Explosions are caused by reactions.
Those balls of chakra are dogshit, they don't do anything comparable to the actual explosion.
When the hell was chakra ever used to regularly amp stats? That's fan headcanon.
It's stated earlier in the series that people rarely use chakra for stats.

its elaborated further upon in the anime.

why do i have to counter your argument about science with science?? the bijuu forms the bomb with chakra,
the chakra balls are the cause of the explosion... pretty simple
not headcanon, stated in the first databook
"To put it plainly, chakra is what fuels a jutsu. The mental and physical energies of a shinobi’s body are joined together into stamina, which is internally converted into chakra, the energy source for a jutsu’s activation. The efficiency of this conversion is influenced by the user’s skill. Being able to efficiently convert stamina means a possibility to cast an even larger number of jutsu. In addition, chakra can be used to temporarily trigger some physical abilities. Thanks to this, shinobi can perform superhuman physical feats."

when is that ever stated??? if you're talking about ebisu, it's referring to rock lee who we know can't manipulate his chakra

 

[Wuke]

That was a fake statement from a Seth video, i scanned both novels and it said nothing about it

He was referencing the canon (iirc) blood prison movie.

 

[Wuke]

Obito: Itachi came for the sole purpose of doing this. Sasuke was only there when he came for Naruto.
@Wuke: He came for Naruto, idc what Obito says

that would work, if thats what obito actually said lol. maybe read your scan more carefully next time?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

He was referencing the canon (iirc) blood prison movie.

It isn't accepted as Canon

 

[Wuke]

It isn't accepted as Canon

yeah thats fine, its not the evidence i used anyway

 

[KingTempest]

its elaborated further upon in the anime.

Not caring because this isn't canon

why do i have to counter your argument about science with science?? the bijuu forms the bomb with chakra,
the chakra balls are the cause of the explosion... pretty simple

The bijuu creates the missile. The actual explosion is completely different.
If I smack a nuke would I scale to the explosion? No.

not headcanon, stated in the first databook
"To put it plainly, chakra is what fuels a jutsu. The mental and physical energies of a shinobi’s body are joined together into stamina, which is internally converted into chakra, the energy source for a jutsu’s activation. The efficiency of this conversion is influenced by the user’s skill. Being able to efficiently convert stamina means a possibility to cast an even larger number of jutsu. In addition, chakra can be used to temporarily trigger some physical abilities. Thanks to this, shinobi can perform superhuman physical feats."

Yeah, some. And "temporarily trigger some physical abilities" like body flicker and such, not "enhanced strength". Kakashi says you need stupidly good chakra control to do that. Try again.
And Ebisu says "in a few cases", which is consistent with the some.

when is that ever stated??? if you're talking about ebisu, it's referring to rock lee who we know can't manipulate his chakra

Who says Ebisu was only talking about Rock Lee? And Rock Lee was never stated to not be able to manipulate his chakra, heck, in Shippuden he was walking on water.

 

[Wuke]

Not caring because this isn't canon

The bijuu creates the missile. The actual explosion is completely different.
If I smack a nuke would I scale to the explosion? No.


Yeah, some. And "temporarily trigger some physical abilities" like body flicker and such, not "enhanced strength". Kakashi says you need stupidly good chakra control to do that. Try again.
And Ebisu says "in a few cases", which is consistent with the some.

Who says Ebisu was only talking about Rock Lee? And Rock Lee was never stated to not be able to manipulate his chakra, heck, in Shippuden he was walking on water.

it still implies he got hurt via the "ugh!"

false equivalence, because bee is the one creating this attack from essence within himself

why are you just assuming its not referring to strength? kakashi is only talking about tsunades thing. the thing with tsunade is she is able to maximize her output compared to other people who cant.

by this logic kaguya would scale>isshiki because she caught him off guard, if you assume he cant amp his durability/strength with chakra

i meant to say poorly manipluate

 

[Arkenis]

It was multiple of them and he also wasn't really struggling he literally cut their arms with his lightning jutsu and blocked hits from them. I don't know if you read it recently.

Kakashi with help was struggling to fight them with Version 2 -_-

They don't care about the story of Naruto when it's not beneficial

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

thats a super weakened oro, he doesnt have his arms and his body is rejecting him, and the madara thing can be in reference to kurama, or all tailed beasts, since we know madara scales far above ems sasuke who can harm the ten tails

Orochimaru was weaker than Shikamaru at that moment?
Madara said that his Perfect Susanoo can even rival the Tailed Beasts; a statement of scaling where the Tailed Beasts are considered something unrivaled. Note that he was talking to the Kages, who supposedly scale far above Tailed Beasts. On that note, base Killer Bee scales far above the Eight Tails as well.
Harm the Ten Tails through Amatarasu (which power changes according to the plot). And a CRT already decided that heat-based attacks don't scale to kinetic force by default.

wait what inconsistencies? shikamaru doesnt even have to be bijuu level with my scaling, it would just be all those paper bombs combined, which isnt an outlier for paper bombs. also its inconsistent to have akatsuki below bijuu, given that they have to kill them in the show. so as it stands now, the show of naruto couldnt even happen correctly with the way the tiers are

Almost all the cast being as physically powerful as brings established to be far beyond their level.
If Hidan allowed Shikamaru a free hit without paper bombs, he would get merked. Since Hidan is supposedly Biju level Shikamaru scales.
Do you have an idea how common paper bombs are?

---

Now here is the main fallacy behind your position: You don't need to physically scale to Bijus to kill or weaken them. Each team has at least one member with hax that doesn't scale with physicals.

Hidan: Jashin ritual
Sasori: Useful for spying and intel gathering, but can poison the Jinchuriki
Orochimaru: Seals
Deidara: Dropping bombs while flying
Itachi: Sharingan Genjutsu
Kisame: Samehada
Pain: Chibaku Tensei

So yes, they can be hundreds or thousands of times weaker, and still beat Tailed Beasts without being physically comparable, and the plot can move on without making an incoherent powerscaling.

 

[Wuke]

It was multiple of them and he also wasn't really struggling he literally cut their arms with his lightning jutsu and blocked hits from them. I don't know if you read it recently.

im starting to think they havent watched the show. their scaling literally doesnt allow the show to happen, while not providing ANY valid antifeats

 

[Kin201]

It was multiple of them and he also wasn't really struggling he literally cut their arms with his lightning jutsu and blocked hits from them. I don't know if you read it recently.

He cut them with lightning-based attacks, which greatly enhance the sharpness.

 

[KingTempest]

it still implies he got hurt via the "ugh!"

Oh wow, did the same to his own bijuudama, but you scale that to him why?

false equivalence, because bee is the one creating this attack from essence within himself

And then when it connects with an external source, it explodes.

why are you just assuming its not referring to strength?

When did I say that? I said not everyone does it.

by this logic kaguya would scale>isshiki because she caught him off guard, if you assume he cant amp his durability/strength with chakra

Don't bring Boruto's inconsistent scaling where Base Naruto can drop kick Isshiki here.

 

[Arkenis]

That was a fake statement from a Seth video, i scanned both novels and it said nothing about it

I can show u the statement if you'd like cause you definitely didn't do research lol.

 

[Wuke]

Orochimaru was weaker than Shikamaru at that moment?
Madara said that his Perfect Susanoo can even rival the Tailed Beasts; a statement of scaling where the Tailed Beasts are considered something unrivaled. Note that he was talking to the Kages, who supposedly scale far above Tailed Beasts. On that note, base Killer Bee scales far above the Eight Tails as well.
Harm the Ten Tails through Amatarasu (which power changes according to the plot). And a CRT already decided that heat-based attacks don't scale to kinetic force by default.


Almost all the cast being as physically powerful as brings established to be far beyond their level.
If Hidan allowed Shikamaru a free hit without paper bombs, he would get merked. Since Hidan is supposedly Biju level Shikamaru scales.
Do you have an idea how common paper bombs are?

---

Now here is the main fallacy behind your position: You don't need to physically scale to Bijus to kill or weaken them. Each team has at least one member with hax that doesn't scale with physicals.

Hidan: Jashin ritual
Sasori: Useful for spying and intel gathering, but can poison the Jinchuriki
Orochimaru: Seals
Deidara: Dropping bombs while flying
Itachi: Sharingan Genjutsu
Kisame: Samehada
Pain: Chibaku Tensei

So yes, they can be hundreds or thousands of times weaker, and still beat Tailed Beasts without being physically comparable, and the plot can move on without making an incoherent powerscaling.

I already said that shikamaru wouldnt be upgraded, because he doesnt scale to the paper bombs

Do all the kage scale over EVERY tailed beast at once?

"Changes according to the plot" sounds like unprovable headcanon

well the amaterasu has an ap, considering gaaras sand is able to block it easily and it is fueled by chakra

no, i see no reason to indicate they are super common, and you are presupposing they are the same strength which is unfounded

Hidan: Has to hurt his opponent first
Sasori: I agree with poison, but I already outlined why with the Iron sand he should scale above. Sasori>Third Kazekage>Alive Rasa>Shukaku
Orochimaru: not included when the statement is made
Deidara: Not a hax?? you literally just listed an ap attack
Itachi:Sure
Kisame:Sure but he also has impressive ap feats
Pain: CT is already in that ap tier

I prefaced at the beggining of this CRT that i wasnt saying EVERY member should be upgraded, but mostly the brawler types like deidara, kakuzu with his hardening, hidan, and sasori with his iron sand