Naruto: Shippuden Akatsuki (+others) AP upgrade

[Arcker123]

Didn’t kakashi only harm him with a raikiri which his diamond armor is weak to.

 

[Wuke]

Didn’t kakashi only harm him with a raikiri which his diamond armor is weak to.

he can still swap hands with him, and their jutsu clash

 

[KingTempest]

i mean, kakuzu kinda folds them, and shikamaru only damages with paper bombs which are already beastly, and cutting damage, which doesnt necessarily scale to ap.

"Cutting damage, which doesn't necessarily scale to AP"
Isn't that everything Hidan does?

And why would they scale to the Bijuu's bijuudamas? How do their durability compare to that?

 

[Wuke]

like, i dont know about yall, but i think its pretty ridiculous to have gaara's sand tsunami from part one on the same ap tier as AKATSUKI members

 

[Wuke]

"Cutting damage, which doesn't necessarily scale to AP"
Isn't that everything Hidan does?

And why would they scale to the Bijuu's bijuudamas? How do their durability compare to that?

yeah, but kakuzu is implied to be the one that takes out the bijuu usually anyway, and we dont know if cutting affects chakra entites the same way as it does humans. the reason they scale to bijuubombs is because bijuus can tank their own bomb, but with their physical attacks they are able to harm another. so if kakuzu is able to take down matatabi, he scales over the bb

 

[Arkenis]

No way are yall tryna scale Naruto over Jiraiya when Jiraiya obviously doesn't wanna hurt his godson...

 

[Kin201]

Bijuu Bomb's power varies depends on how much chakra Bijuu puts into it. But I'm pretty sure Bijuu Bomb obliterates most of the Akatsuki Members if it hits them, so no Kakuzu should not scale to it.

 

[KingTempest]

yeah, but kakuzu is implied to be the one that takes out the bijuu usually anyway,

Who lied to you?

Seems a lot like Hidan

the reason they scale to bijuubombs is because bijuus can tank their own bomb

Based on Bee, but when I used another Bijuu as an example, you said association fallacy...

Kishimoto often has inconsistencies with size. Also, Just saying because this one thing applies to Kurama, it should apply to the other Bijuu as well is an association fallacy. What's the problem with the 2nd part? It just upscales KCM Naruto. He himself states he's way stronger than when he fought pain anyway.

I'm surprised no one used Bee taking his own Bijuudama as an outlier.

I'm also surprised that all that blood and screaming from a relatively small bijuudama that probably isn't even 6-C is what's being used to scale half the fodder to 6-C.

You know that Bijuudama are called the Bijuu's ultimate moves, so why would their physicals scale above it if everything else does?

 

[KingTempest]

like, i dont know about yall, but i think its pretty ridiculous to have gaara's sand tsunami from part one on the same ap tier as AKATSUKI members

Same ones who get hurt by paper bombs

 

[Wuke]

Bijuu Bomb's power varies depends on how much chakra Bijuu puts into it. But I'm pretty sure Bijuu Bomb obliterates most of the Akatsuki Members if it hits them, so no Kakuzu should not scale to it.

based on?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Where’s this headcanon of Bijuu not physically scaling to Bijuu bombs?

 

[KingTempest]

Where’s this headcanon of Bijuu not physically scaling to Bijuu bombs?

Where's this headcanon of Bijuu scaling to them in the first place?

It's called their ultimate attack. If their finger flicks scaled to it, it wouldn't be their ultimate attacks.

 

[Wuke]

Who lied to you?

Seems a lot like Hidan


Based on Bee, but when I used another Bijuu as an example, you said association fallacy...


I'm surprised no one used Bee taking his own Bijuudama as an outlier.

I'm also surprised that all that blood and screaming from a relatively small bijuudama that probably isn't even 6-C is what's being used to scale half the fodder to 6-C.

You know that Bijuudama are called the Bijuu's ultimate moves, so why would their physicals scale above it if everything else does?

Nobody lied to me. The Kurama thing is a false equivalence, because already know kurama has been demonstrated to be different than the other bijuu. What's the outlier for bee taking his own bb? the physicals dont even have to scale above, they can scale to it, and they can still be ultimate because they are a ranged attack, or they can be faster than the physicals. also there is no way to prove that hidan was the one that killed matatabi.

 

[Wuke]

Same ones who get hurt by paper bombs

you're assuming all paper bombs are the same strength, or that theres not a link to the user. paper bombs also have feats like dismembering obito, and blowing up hashiramas deity gates

 

[Wuke]

like, this resistance is so weird, because as the tiers are now, the story of naruto cant even happen as it does in the manga

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Where's this headcanon of Bijuu scaling to them in the first place?

It's called their ultimate attack. If their finger flicks scaled to it, it wouldn't be their ultimate attacks.

Yeah sure.

 

[Kin201]

based on?

Because they can supposedly be injured by a massively weaker attack, like a punch from Kakashi, Choji, Sakura for examples. So of course, Bijuu Bombs will obliterate them without a trace.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Because they can supposedly be injured by a massively weaker attack, like a punch from Kakashi, Choji, Sakura for examples. So of course, Bijuu Bombs will obliterate them without a trace.

Did you not see the scan of the 8 tails surviving his own Bijuu Bomb?

 

[Wuke]

Because they can supposedly be injured by a massively weaker attack, like a punch from Kakashi, Choji, Sakura for examples. So of course, Bijuu Bombs will obliterate them without a trace.

why is that massively weaker? ive already shown why the bijuus physical attacks should scale to their bb's. sakura is also trained by tsunade, not really an antifeat. when does choji do anything that actually hurts an akatsuki member?

 

[Dalesean027]

I honestly don’t know why this is hard.

Akatsuki murdered the Jinchuriki, they scale. That’s all. There’s no leaps and bounds that need discussing. And the “but they only have town feats” when this entire site is founded on scaling needs to be shamed.
That is all.

Lol there's literally nothing more to it

 

[KingTempest]

Nobody lied to me.

"Usually the doer" for business purposes, or do you not know that there's other bijuu that were captured right?
Deidara got Shukaku.
Deidara and Tobi got Isobu.
Kisame got Son Goku.

And the fact that they needed to get the bijuu in order and they died right after their first Bijuu means that they haven't fought any other bijuu.
Headcanon at it's finest.

The Kurama thing is a false equivalence, because already know kurama has been demonstrated to be different than the other bijuu.

In chakra reserves. That's it. No bijuu is exactly the same.

What's the outlier for bee taking his own bb?

He has no other dura feats close to it, since everyone with a blade can chop through it, even a super tired MS Sasuke can cut through it.

the physicals dont even have to scale above, they can scale to it, and they can still be ultimate because they are a ranged attack, or they can be faster than the physicals.

Retro headcanon

also there is no way to prove that hidan was the one that killed matatabi.

#1 he didn't even kill her, Yugito died when they stole the bijuu from her at the hideout
#2 did you not see the ritual
#3 Hidan, in your scan, says that Kakuzu's usually the one to kill people, which means that in this instance, it wasn't him.

you're assuming all paper bombs are the same strength, or that theres not a link to the user.

So Shikamaru is just a god tier since Hidan was scared that Shikamaru's bomb injured him.

paper bombs also have feats like dismembering obito,

You mean Konan's who stuck them to him and used more than one?

and blowing up hashiramas deity gates

Scan of?

when does choji do anything that actually hurts an akatsuki member?

Choji punched the living shit out of Asuma who scales to Hidan

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah sure.

Damn, Look at Gyuki covered in blood in the next scan

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Damn, Look at Gyuki covered in blood in the next scan

And? Did he get vaporized? Did he die? Ever heard of back scaling?

 

[KingTempest]

Did he get vaporized?

Your associate says that chakra has different properties

Did he die?

Did Sasuke die when Itachi punched him?
Did Sakura die when Gaara slapped her?
Did the 5 Kage die from Madara's perfect Susanoo?

I guess they all scale then.

Ever heard of back scaling?

Ever heard of not scaling at all?

 

[Wuke]

"Usually the doer" for business purposes, or do you not know that there's other bijuu that were captured right?
Deidara got Shukaku.
Deidara and Tobi got Isobu.
Kisame got Son Goku.

And the fact that they needed to get the bijuu in order and they died right after their first Bijuu means that they haven't fought any other bijuu.
Headcanon at it's finest.

In chakra reserves. That's it. No bijuu is exactly the same.

He has no other dura feats close to it, since everyone with a blade can chop through it, even a super tired MS Sasuke can cut through it.

Retro headcanon

#1 he didn't even kill her, Yugito died when they stole the bijuu from her at the hideout
#2 did you not see the ritual
#3 Hidan, in your scan, says that Kakuzu's usually the one to kill people, which means that in this instance, it wasn't him.

So Shikamaru is just a god tier since Hidan was scared that Shikamaru's bomb injured him.

You mean Konan's who stuck them to him and used more than one?

Scan of?

Choji punched the living shit out of Asuma who scales to Hidan

thats definitely not the case, because they sent part kisame and itachi after naruto in part one, so that doesnt work. and no, its not just chakra reserves. kurama is demonstrably smarter and stated stronger and more malicious as well. ms sasuke can cut through what? a bijuu bomb? please show me that lol.

no, its a perfectly logical counterinterpretation that preserves the narrative and allows the story of naruto to proceed the way it does in the manga, unlike what the tiers are right now.
#1, okay so they were subdue her to the point where they could rip the bijuu out, concession accepted
#2 doesnt mean anything, kakuzu couldve killed her and he couldve done his ritual
#3 yeah, but hidan also says he has bad aim and the slowest attack speed in the akatsuki, and we actually see kakuzu fight matatabi as well

there is no inconsistency with shikamaru scaling there, and its only inconsistent if you make several unfounded assumptions.

yeah, konan used more than one... SO DID SHIKAMARU, he literally covered him head to toe and throughout the forest.

is that choji thing in the war arc? if so, choji likely got stronger, and asuma is also weakened by the edo tensei jutsu.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I would say that we should stick with a scaling where Shikamaru isn't Biju level, but it is concerning that some members state that creating inconsistency isn't relevant. Conceding that the scaling creates lots of that is more than enough reason to reject it.

based on?

Pretty sure there are many reasons to base this on, but lets go with two examples: Orochimaru not being able to tank a 4-Tailed Naruto's bomb, Madara bragging that his Perfect Susanoo's power rivals that of the Tailed Beasts.

 

[Arkenis]

Choji was in his butterfly form iirc for that feat.

 

[Wuke]

I would say that we should stick with a scaling where Shikamaru isn't Biju level, but it is concerning that some members state that creating inconsistency isn't relevant. Conceding that the scaling creates lots of that is more than enough reason to reject it.


Pretty sure there are many reasons to base this on, but lets go with two examples: Orochimaru not being able to tank a 4-Tailed Naruto's bomb, Madara bragging that his Perfect Susanoo's power rivals that of the Tailed Beasts.

thats a super weakened oro, he doesnt have his arms and his body is rejecting him, and the madara thing can be in reference to kurama, or all tailed beasts, since we know madara scales far above ems sasuke who can harm the ten tails

 

[Wuke]

I would say that we should stick with a scaling where Shikamaru isn't Biju level, but it is concerning that some members state that creating inconsistency isn't relevant. Conceding that the scaling creates lots of that is more than enough reason to reject it.


Pretty sure there are many reasons to base this on, but lets go with two examples: Orochimaru not being able to tank a 4-Tailed Naruto's bomb, Madara bragging that his Perfect Susanoo's power rivals that of the Tailed Beasts.

wait what inconsistencies? shikamaru doesnt even have to be bijuu level with my scaling, it would just be all those paper bombs combined, which isnt an outlier for paper bombs. also its inconsistent to have akatsuki below bijuu, given that they have to kill them in the show. so as it stands now, the show of naruto couldnt even happen correctly with the way the tiers are

 

[GuildZero]

No way are yall tryna scale Naruto over Jiraiya when Jiraiya obviously doesn't wanna hurt his godson...

i think its fair to say 4t naruto>base jiraiya

 

[Wuke]

i think its fair to say 4t naruto>base jiraiya

it literally happens. lol.

 

[GuildZero]

it literally happens. lol.

facts

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

And(no offense of course)? Naruto hurt a Gaara that was very much Shukaku empowered with Paper Bombs.

Eh, it was at his weakest point.
But yeah I definitely do agree Akatsuki should scale to the Bijuu.

 

[KingTempest]

thats definitely not the case, because they sent part kisame and itachi after naruto in part one, so that doesnt work.

and no, its not just chakra reserves. kurama is demonstrably smarter and stated stronger and more malicious as well.

Prove the others are dumber.
Maliciousness came from it's nature, people treated him like shit.

ms sasuke can cut through what?

no, its a perfectly logical counterinterpretation that preserves the narrative and allows the story of naruto to proceed the way it does in the manga, unlike what the tiers are right now.

Perfectly illogical bs that makes explosion based moves that turn mountains into dust look like useless feats.

#1, okay so they were subdue her to the point where they could rip the bijuu out, concession accepted

What the hell are you talking about, you can see that she's unconscious with sharp objects in her body + a ritual being done

#2 doesnt mean anything, kakuzu couldve killed her and he couldve done his ritual

Prove Kakuzu did it

#3 yeah, but hidan also says he has bad aim and the slowest attack speed in the akatsuki, and we actually see kakuzu fight matatabi as well

Kakuzu didn't do shit, and slow attack speed doesn't mean slow in general with someone compared to Asuma and Kakashi

there is no inconsistency with shikamaru scaling there, and its only inconsistent if you make several unfounded assumptions.

So Shikamaru scales to/above Bijuu, alright.
Shikamaru's pops basically said he couldn't do shit to Pain.
6 tails Naruto bodied pain.
6 tails Naruto >>>>>>>>>>> Pain > Shikamaru > all the other Bijuu for some reason.
Makes perfect sense.

yeah, konan used more than one... SO DID SHIKAMARU, he literally covered him head to toe and throughout the forest.

I'm referring to far earlier

is that choji thing in the war arc?

Yes

if so, choji likely got stronger,

This is the exact same Choji + a few days that fought Pain. Pain's fight was barely after the Akatsuki members' deaths. Don't give excuses.

and asuma is also weakened by the edo tensei jutsu.

Where was it stated that all edo tensei are weakened? That was mainly for people under the users' strength.

 

[Kin201]

why is that massively weaker? ive already shown why the bijuus physical attacks should scale to their bb's. sakura is also trained by tsunade, not really an antifeat. when does choji do anything that actually hurts an akatsuki member?

Why you scale Sakura and Kakashi's punches to Bijuu Bombs? They are unquantifiably below Bijuu Bombs and if those punches can harm Akatsumaki Members. It should be common sense that BBs vaporises most of them if it hits. Choji's father could temporarily incapacitate Asura Path and Choji himself forced Deva Path Pain to dodge his attack, implying that his punch could cause some damage to him if Pain didn't dodge.

 

[KingTempest]

i think its fair to say 4t naruto>base jiraiya

All the Sannin are equal
4t Naruto > Base Jiraiya ~ Tsunade > Madara's Ribcage

When did 4T Naruto become a damn god tier?

 

[Arcker123]

Where’s this headcanon of Bijuu not physically scaling to Bijuu bombs?

Bijuu have 6-C durability.

 

[KingTempest]

Bijuu have 6-C durability.

Based off of association fallacy from 8 Tails who almost died from a relatively small Bijuudama

 

[Arcker123]

Go downgrade the bijuu, until then the point stands.

 

[LordTracer]

All the Sannin are equal
4t Naruto > Base Jiraiya ~ Tsunade > Madara's Ribcage

When did 4T Naruto become a damn god tier?

Jiraiya is not equal to Byakugou Tsunade, he’s not even equal to base Tsunade considering that she nearly beat him to death.