Naruto: Shippuden Akatsuki (+others) AP upgrade

[Shadowbokunohero]

The Rasenshuriken ignores conventional durability. BY ATTACKING THE CELLS. If the Raikage has greater cellular durability, not an antifeat. Plus, I gave another argument outside of that why it doesnt work, that wasnt addressed. Because bijuus can be weaponized within shinobi, and also, paperbombs could be hard to make, we dont know! "Shukakus true strength is surpressed" Chapter 135

Find me a quote in the manga where it says the Raikage has greater cellular durability.

 

[KingTempest]

I can tell you when he blitzed him. Also it's implied only SM Jiraiya was relative to Oro

We didn't even know Jiraiya had SM until his last fight, lie again

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I can tell you when he blitzed him. Also it's implied only SM Jiraiya was relative to Oro

Find me a direct quote or statement from the manga that says SM Jiraiya is relative to orochimaru.

 

[Wuke]

So would you argue that Sakura is Bijuu level when her punch dislocated Sasori's main body.

Why does dislocation mean anything, even then, whats the antifeat for sakuras ap after being trained by tsunade?

 

[Wuke]

Find me a direct quote or statement from the manga that says SM Jiraiya is relative to orochimaru.

Find me one that says it's only base. Oro alludes to the fact that whenever they fight normally, it's no contest. Hiruzen also implied that oro was a cut above the rest. When Ebisu asked Jiraiya to fight Oro he was like "Nope!"

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Talking about Jiraiya you mean the same Jiraiya who is barely a mountain buster according to the databook?

 

[Wuke]

We didn't even know Jiraiya had SM until his last fight, lie again

By that logic, Hagoromo wasn't named Hagoromo until we learned his name

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Find me one that says it's only base.

that's not how the burden of proof works. you are the one that made the claim, now prove it.

 

[Arkenis]

So would you argue that Sakura is Bijuu level when her punch dislocated Sasori's main body

Yea that's fine.

 

[Wuke]

Talking about Jiraiya you mean the same Jiraiya who is barely a mountain buster according to the databook?

I already showed above why Oro is above Jiraiya anyway. Why does Oro even matter? I already gave reasoning why 4 tails naruto can be full bijuu and that its not full power Oro, not an antifeat

 

[Wuke]

that's not how the burden of proof works. you are the one that made the claim, now prove it.

You asserted it was base first, I asserted a possible interpretation AND substantiated it with evidence, YOU as the initial claimant now have the burden to REFUTE my interpretation or DEMONSTRATE why yours is LIKELIER

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Yea that's fine.

then explain to me why the fourth databook claims that Sakura only becomes Bijuu level at the end of the series.

 

[KingTempest]

By that logic, Hagoromo wasn't named Hagoromo until we learned his name

Worst logic ever.

You said

Also it's implied only SM Jiraiya was relative to Oro

But he only did that in one fight, showing that it's never implied since we barely even see it.

You pulled that "implied" out of your ass

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

You asserted it was base first, I asserted a possible interpretation AND substantiated it with evidence, YOU as the initial claimant now have the burden to REFUTE my interpretation or DEMONSTRATE why yours is LIKELIER

I asserted it was base because there is literally nothing contradicting it, Sage Mode is never mentioned. I can't prove a negative.
your interpretation relies on assumptions mine does not.

 

[Arkenis]

Talking about Jiraiya you mean the same Jiraiya who is barely a mountain buster according to the databook?

Easily carving away a mountain isn't implying that's his only limit...

 

[Wuke]

Worst logic ever.

You said

But he only did that in one fight, showing that it's never implied since we barely even see it.

You pulled that "implied" out of your ass

No. You are not understanding my full argument. I brought up statements that imply Jiraiya fought Oro in base before he left the village, and that it was no contest for Oro. You are saying "but we never see him using outside of this" that doesn't mean he isn't capable of using the mode earlier lmao. Classic argument from ignorance.

 

[Arkenis]

then explain to me why the fourth databook claims that Sakura only becomes Bijuu level at the end of the series.

Show that? I'd loved to see that statement lol

 

[Wuke]

I asserted it was base because there is literally nothing contradicting it, Sage Mode is never mentioned. I can't prove a negative.
your interpretation relies on assumptions mine does not.

Argument from ignorance. You asserted it was base. I said it could be referring to Sage Mode and gave EVIDENCE as to why its more likely its SM. I'm not asking you to prove a negative. I'm asking you to prove your claim. Your interpretation does rely on an assumption, youre assuming its BASE, because you have no other evidence, while I do. Please learn proper argumentation

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

For now, I just want to say that Sasori shouldn’t be 6-C naturally and only with his iron sand. It’s obvious that his puppets are as durable as the iron sand, which explains why Sakura was able to shatter the puppets whenever she got the chance.
Also Sakura is clearly slower than Sasori. She needed to be controlled by Chio just so she could stand a chance.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Show that? I'd loved to see that statement lol

 

[Wuke]

For now, I just want to say that Sasori shouldn’t be 6-C naturally and only with his iron sand. It’s obvious that his puppets are as durable as the iron sand, which explains why Sakura was able to shatter the puppets whenever she got the chance.
Also Sakura is clearly slower than Sasori. She needed to be controlled by Chio just so she could stand a chance.

This is fine

 

[Wuke]

you know that would mean she scales over the ten tails right? considering ems sasukes amaterasu was able to damage it. so if you want to say scaling over the ten tails is only normal bijuu level then sure, but i would disagree

 

[Arkenis]

That's talking about Kcm 1 naruto and ems sasuke... do you really think they are just biju lvl?

 

[Wuke]

Are there any other arguments or are y'all done.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Argument from ignorance. You asserted it was base. I said it could be referring to Sage Mode and gave EVIDENCE as to why its more likely its SM. I'm not asking you to prove a negative. I'm asking you to prove your claim. Your interpretation does rely on an assumption, youre assuming its BASE, because you have no other evidence, while I do. Please learn proper argumentation

an argument from Ignorance doesn't work when the person arguing the opposite hasn't actually given solid evidence for the alternative Interpretation.

THIS

> Oro alludes to the fact that whenever they fight normally, it's no contest. Hiruzen also implied that oro was a cut above the rest. When Ebisu asked Jiraiya to fight Oro he was like "Nope!"

Isn't Evidence. because the argument above me needs to go through the same scrutiny as your actual argument.

provide proof to me that the above argument is referring to Sage Mode and not Base,

In case your not aware this is what we call Circular reasoning.

 

[Arkenis]

For now, I just want to say that Sasori shouldn’t be 6-C naturally and only with his iron sand. It’s obvious that his puppets are as durable as the iron sand, which explains why Sakura was able to shatter the puppets whenever she got the chance.
Also Sakura is clearly slower than Sasori. She needed to be controlled by Chio just so she could stand a chance.

I think considering that his real puppet body is valued more and trusted over the rest of them which would include Third Kazekage, you can't see why this doesn't make sense to say only with the iron sand? I think it's fine either way though, like his ap would be with iron sand and third kaze 6-C with main body should be higher.

 

[Wuke]

an argument from Ignorance doesn't work when the person arguing the opposite hasn't actually given solid evidence for the alternative Interpretation.

THIS

> Oro alludes to the fact that whenever they fight normally, it's no contest. Hiruzen also implied that oro was a cut above the rest. When Ebisu asked Jiraiya to fight Oro he was like "Nope!"

Isn't Evidence. because the argument above me needs to go through the same scrutiny as your actual argument.

provide proof to me that the above argument is referring to Sage Mode and not Base,

In case your not aware this is what we call Circular reasoning.

How is that not evidence? I can provide the scans if you'd like. Listen, I'm going to explain argumentative structure to you one more time. You made a claim that Base Jiraiya was a peer to Oro. I say "It can just be referring to sage mode, because of x, y, z" even if you discredit my evidence, which you have no good reason to, you still havent proven the likeliehood of your interpretation, hence it is still your burden to provide a higher level of likelihood.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

How is that not evidence?

Prove to me those statements are referring to Sage mode Jiraiya and not Base.

This shouldn't be hard to understand

> you still haven't proven the likeliehood of your interpretation, hence it is still your burden to provide a higher level of likelihood.

If you lack evidence to support it being Sage Mode then it would default be Base based on how Occam's razor works. Unless you want to argue Jiraiya has some third secret form we don't know about.

​

 

[Wuke]

Prove to me those statements are referring to Sage mode Jiraiya and not Base.

This shouldn't be hard to understand

> you still haven't proven the likeliehood of your interpretation, hence it is still your burden to provide a higher level of likelihood.

If you lack evidence to support it being Sage Mode then it would default be Base based on how Occam's razor works. Unless you want to argue Jiraiya has some third secret form we don't know about.

​

Bro, you don't understand. If Oro says it's no contest, and its referring to base jiraiya, jiraiya scaling below 4t naruto doesnt matter. either way works for me. And I do have evidence, so that last part is moot. Occams razor would benefit me, since if jiraiya is relative to orochimaru in base, if he can get a x10 multiplier from sage mode, oro shouldve never been able to leave the village. Do better next time

 

[Ped2018]

Shadow, why are you using the argument of Four Tails Kurama if Kurama is way stronger than the other Bijuu

 

[Wuke]

Shadow, why are you using the argument of Four Tails Kurama if Kurama is way stronger than the other Bijuu

Because he doesn't understand what a proper defeater is

 

[KingTempest]

Bro, you don't understand. If Oro says it's no contest, and its referring to base jiraiya, jiraiya scaling below 4t naruto doesnt matter. either way works for me. And I do have evidence, so that last part is moot. Occams razor would benefit me, since if jiraiya is relative to orochimaru in base, if he can get a x10 multiplier from sage mode, oro shouldve never been able to leave the village. Do better next time

#1 didn't Jiraiya survive and seal 4 tails Naruto while Oro got clapped
#2 We don't accept 10x Sage Mode
#3 For Naruto, Strength ≠ AP, we don't use "stronger" statements for anyone.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I honestly don’t know why this is hard.

Akatsuki murdered the Jinchuriki, they scale. That’s all. There’s no leaps and bounds that need discussing. And the “but they only have town feats” when this entire site is founded on scaling needs to be shamed.
That is all.

 

[Wuke]

#1 didn't Jiraiya survive and seal 4 tails Naruto while Oro got clapped
#2 We don't accept 10x Sage Mode
#3 For Naruto, Strength ≠ AP, we don't use "stronger" statements for anyone.

#1 Jiraiya said he was near death, Oro was not nearly damaged as much, while not having his arms, his body is rejecting him, and he wasnt fully taking it seriousl
#2 doesnt matter, sm is still a substantial power amp, and i already explained why either way his argument doesnt work
#3 Why? what else is stronger supposed to mean? and when did i even use that word?

 

[Wuke]

I honestly don’t know why this is hard.

Akatsuki murdered the Jinchuriki, they scale. That’s all. There’s no leaps and bounds that need discussing. And the “but they only have town feats” when this entire site is founded on scaling needs to be shamed.
That is all.

Thank you for being reasonable.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I honestly don’t know why this is hard.

Akatsuki murdered the Jinchuriki, they scale. That’s all. There’s no leaps and bounds that need discussing. And the “but they only have town feats” when this entire site is founded on scaling needs to be shamed.
That is all.

Exactly.

 

[Ped2018]

Wuke, just a advice, try to be less agressive in your responses, you seem like a good guy but if you abuse too much you gonna get banned

 

[Wuke]

I honestly don’t know why this is hard.

Akatsuki murdered the Jinchuriki, they scale. That’s all. There’s no leaps and bounds that need discussing. And the “but they only have town feats” when this entire site is founded on scaling needs to be shamed.
That is all.

@Damage3245 you said you wanted other staff input

 

[Wuke]

Wuke, just a advice, try to be less agressive in your responses, you seem like a good guy but if you abuse too much you gonna get banned

Yeah, sorry, I just feel like this is so blatantly obvious and this thread has been going on for a good while I just got a little irritated.

 

[Arkenis]

I honestly don’t know why this is hard.

Akatsuki murdered the Jinchuriki, they scale. That’s all. There’s no leaps and bounds that need discussing. And the “but they only have town feats” when this entire site is founded on scaling needs to be shamed.
That is all.

Yes.