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(Naruto) Question about Kaguya's Power and ETSB

TheFinalOrder

TheFinalOrder

4,487
732
NOTE: THIS IS NOT A CTR, I JUST WANT PEOPLES OPINIONS

So, the leading reason Kaguya doesn't scale to the full value of the ETSB is because the DB states she used the Chakra of the Shinobi trapped in Infinite Tsukiyomi.

Now, i understand the reasoning, but...It just dawned on me.

  • The amount of People in the Shinobi Alliance at the time is 9700+
  • BM Naruto shared is chakra and with the Shinobi Alliance, giving Amps of At Least 3x
So, I'm not saying Naruto should scale to the ETSB, but he definitely has more chakra than the Shinobi Alliance Combined. And that's in BM.

Kaguya has Much Much more Chakra than Naruto's next 2 strongest forms (BSM and SPSM), so....with this being the case, Isn't the reasoning behind Kaguya not scaling from the ETSB debunked?

The chakra of the Shinobi is nothing more than a drop in the pool comparatively.
 
Ok, so first off, this thing about everybody getting a 3x amp is, well, not real. he doenst amp like that with a mutliplier, he gives them chakra. I may be wrong as to where u got the 3x amp, but if its from kakashi, then it only applies to him, cuz his chakra+ the chakra he got from kurama/ naruto made him 3 times stronger. Example: kakashi's chakra level= 100; kurama/ naruto chakra amp he recived=200, add them both together and u have 300, which is 3 times hsi previous chakra level. And his chakra lvl>>>>>> fodder ninja out there. Albeit they all got the same amp, so per se, they all recieved 200 amouns of chakra, which adds up to their usual chakra level.

Another thing is that u missed a 3 form. Spsm is his cloakless form. The cross eyed version, but without the cloak and without the eye pigmantation. He then gets another amp from putting on his "9 bijuu chakra cloak". Plus, she is also stronger than his vapor release form as well, so she's 4 forms above BM naruto
 
Personally what i don't understand is, why would it not scale to Kaguya?

she has no intention of leaving the Dimensions, there's no implication of her going to run away and leave them to die in the Dimension when it's outright stated that she doesn't have time be jumping from one dimension to another, this is evidently clear because she believes Naruto and Sasuke would just follow her and if she believes they will follow her then why would she just dump it there and leave, also Zetsu outright states that Kaguya is Immortal implying that it doesnt matter if Sasuke and co die she will survive. though the latter statement could imply her Regenerationn oppose to durability.

so that leaves two conclusions

1. She has the durability to tank the attack in her amped state. Note: no one actually scales to amped Kaguya, because only two have harmed her which is Kakashi who did it through hax and Sakura who did it through PIS.

the other conclusion is her Regenerationn which would put her at at High oppose to her current Mid High stat.
 
What was the reaosn for her not to scale again I honestly forgot.


cuz for some reason we think chakra from 10000 Shinobi Alliance is greater than kaguya's own chakra
 
It siphons Chakra through the Divine Tree which is siphoning Chakra from everyone on the entire planet. Thanks to the Boruto manga, Naruto confirms to us that every human has Chakra, so Kaguya isn't limited to just the Shinobi Alliance.

Plus the fact that not all Shinobi of the world were on the battlefields.
 
Every human doesn't have chakra. Boruto anime even confirms that chakra is something u have to create. You don't automatically have it which is what make some humans normal
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
It siphons Chakra through the Divine Tree which is siphoning Chakra from everyone on the entire planet. Thanks to the Boruto manga, Naruto confirms to us that every human has Chakra, so Kaguya isn't limited to just the Shinobi Alliance.
Plus the fact that not all Shinobi of the world were on the battlefields.
Click to expand...
The Databook solely specifies the ETSB is created with Shinobi chakra, not the worlds chakra.

The Shinobi World only has 9 confirmed Ninja villages:

  • 5 Great Villages
  • 4 Small Villages
The small villages have no where near the main forces as the main villages as proved in the first Chunin Exams as Oto required assistance from Suna just to combat the Leaf.

The villages combing their forces only made a 78k Shinobi Army which was at least widdled down to the 9.7-10k lowballing. And at most, you can say The Small Villages have more than 1000 Shinobi as Orochimaru could comfortably waste 1000 ninja on Sasuke's training.

So Kaguya absorbed Chakra from 9.7-10k Shinobi in the Alliance and at Least 4k other Shinobi from the 4 smaller villages but that doesn't change much as BM Naruto gave 9.7-10k Shinobi More chakra than a Kage Level Ninja like Kakashi had and could still fight comfortably in BM for several minutes before dropping down to KCM. And this is just a 50% Kurama.

Whom Juubi, BSM Naruto and SPSM Naruto Eclipses in Chakra and whom are in turn, eclipsed by Kaguya.

So Kaguya still eclipses the Ninja world in Chakra, including BM Naruto.
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
Ok, so first off, this thing about everybody getting a 3x amp is, well, not real. he doenst amp like that with a mutliplier, he gives them chakra. I may be wrong as to where u got the 3x amp, but if its from kakashi, then it only applies to him, cuz his chakra+ the chakra he got from kurama/ naruto made him 3 times stronger. Example: kakashi's chakra level= 100; kurama/ naruto chakra amp he recived=200, add them both together and u have 300, which is 3 times hsi previous chakra level. And his chakra lvl>>>>>> fodder ninja out there. Albeit they all got the same amp, so per se, they all recieved 200 amouns of chakra, which adds up to their usual chakra level.
Another thing is that u missed a 3 form. Spsm is his cloakless form. The cross eyed version, but without the cloak and without the eye pigmantation. He then gets another amp from putting on his "9 bijuu chakra cloak". Plus, she is also stronger than his vapor release form as well, so she's 4 forms above BM naruto
Click to expand...
It's not true that Naruto didn't gove them 3x amps. When Naruto first gave Chakra to Kakashi, Kakashi was out of chakra and Naruto refilled his reserves, which resulted in 3x amps. It wasn't Kakashi chakra + Naruto Chakra. Kakashi also stated the cloaks were a lot more chakra than Naruto gave to him before.
 
... i dont think it matters, now does it? if he had no chakra, then he wouldve been dead. So to put it simply, cuz this is getting really repetitive over the years, the amount of chakra he recieved from naruto= 3 times his normal chakra.

yet again, doest matter if the cloaks are even more chakra. it just means that they now gained more chakra than before. period.

this is a multiplier valid to kakashin only, since he based it off of his chakra lvls, meaning that other people wouldve gained the same amount, but the mutliplier wouldve been different.
 
yeah the chakra kaguya got from the force would BARELY increase her, i dont see what others cant scale to it
 
Bleach fans on this site would riot if we had tier 4 Naruto God tiers. So we don't scale them to the ETSB, even though logic dictates we should...
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
It siphons Chakra through the Divine Tree which is siphoning Chakra from everyone on the entire planet. Thanks to the Boruto manga, Naruto confirms to us that every human has Chakra, so Kaguya isn't limited to just the Shinobi Alliance.
Plus the fact that not all Shinobi of the world were on the battlefields.
Click to expand...

thank to BZ and manga we know she only absorb chakra from Shinobi Alliance not from every human on earth

and she also absorb Shinobi/IT chakra twice


1.bz absorb Shinobi/IT chakra to revive her


2.kaguya absorb Shinobi/IT chakra to create ETSB
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
What's your justifications for these numbers?
Click to expand...
So I went back and after rereading the Manga my numbers changed.

  • At the end of the first day of the War, Shinobi Alliance Lost 40k of 80k combatants.
  • The next big event is the Zetsu Trick where they transformed into Shinobi Clones. Despite the fact Naruto's additio in the war, Changed the Tide of the war, I still High Ball SA deaths to another 50%. Bringing their Totals to 20k.
  • Then the next big event is Madara showing up on the battle field. With the Past Kages decimating Gaara's Unit and Madara Further twisting the knife, I High-Balled Gaara's Unit being 85% wiped out (Note: The SA was split into 5 units , so figure one unit equates to roughly 16k Ninja/Samurai, minus 85% and Gaara's Unit was widdled down to 2400. Leaving 12.4k in the SA.
  • Another 50%
And the SA is left with 6200 Members (After High Balling deaths) that Naruto Powered Up.

EDIT: Will edit in justification for Smaller Villages having At Least 1000 Ninja. Just making sure the wiki didn't glitch my post out of existence.
 
50% BM has 3x more chakra than assumed 6,200 ninjas

now even if we assume that other small Villages/Shinobi left in Villages was 20,000

20,000+6,200 = 26,200 ninja was under IT ( note: she/bz absorb IT's chakra twice. so i would say she absorb at-least 25% of IT chakra first time and 75% for second time to make ETSB )

so IT full reserves = 26,200 ninja

it is still less than 100% kurama full reserves

50% kurama full reserves 6,200x3 = 18600 ninja

100% kurama full reserves18,600x2 = 37200 ninja
 
I mean, don't we already have statements from the boruto anime and novels that Momoshiki created his dimension, and a statement that ETSB was going to recreate Kaguya's dimenison, which has evidence of at least 1 star being inside of it?

I feel like the way things are now, Naruto might reach tier 4 soon via old/new feats and statements. Just like what happened with planet level, where nobody believed in 5-B Naruto up until like 3-4 years ago, even this place was the same.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
Personally what i don't understand is, why would it not scale to Kaguya?
she has no intention of leaving the Dimensions, there's no implication of her going to run away and leave them to die in the Dimension when it's outright stated that she doesn't have time be jumping from one dimension to another, this is evidently clear because she believes Naruto and Sasuke would just follow her and if she believes they will follow her then why would she just dump it there and leave, also Zetsu outright states that Kaguya is Immortal implying that it doesnt matter if Sasuke and co die she will survive. though the latter statement could imply her Regenerationn oppose to durability.

so that leaves two conclusions

1. She has the durability to tank the attack in her amped state. Note: no one actually scales to amped Kaguya, because only two have harmed her which is Kakashi who did it through hax and Sakura who did it through PIS.

the other conclusion is her Regenerationn which would put her at at High oppose to her current Mid High stat.
Click to expand...
If you believe Kaguya was gonna tank her own ETSB which is High 4-C. then why doesnt she have High 4-C durability ???
 
It was agreed in a previous thread that she would more than likely regenerate from it instead of tank it, which is where the "Possibly Mid-High" comes from iirc.
 
>If you believe Kaguya was gonna tank her own ETSB which is High 4-C. then why doesnt she have High 4-C durability ???

she would but that can be argued as outlier..however

read my enitre argument oppose to cherry picking it.
 
YungManzi said:
It was agreed in a previous thread that she would more than likely regenerate from it instead of tank it, which is where the "Possibly Mid-High" comes from iirc.
Click to expand...
which makes no sense as to regen from ETSB would require High regen
 
i knew there was some sneaky reason to this thread. testing the waters to see how tier four naruto would be received. mhmm.
 
Heavens Feel said:
i knew there was some sneaky reason to this thread. testing the waters to see how tier four naruto would be received. mhmm.
Click to expand...
honestly that's a lot of Conjecture there.
 
Heavens Feel said:
i knew there was some sneaky reason to this thread. testing the waters to see how tier four naruto would be received. mhmm.
Click to expand...
Just let the waters flow and see where it leads. ;)

It ain't going to be well-received anyway. Lol
 
it is observation.

OP:Ok guys this is deffs not a crt dont worry,

etc etc later:

but, uh, tier four naruto can't be debunked rite?

yeah. lol.

just come out and say you wanna upgrade her and the others. let's not beat around the bush with tincy tiny steps towards your obvious destination.
 
also please don't take that like I'm some salty bleach fan here to ruin your plans, I personally think she should be tier four. Lets just be real though.
 
@IHeavens Feel

> it is observatio

that you coupled it with conjecture

> OP:Ok guys this is deffs not a crt dont worry,

etc etc later:

So? someone should be able to freely discuss there views on something and ask the community for their input, this is why these things are posted on the Discussion board, also even if the Op later on actually made a CRT based on his thoughts here what's the problem? many many users, including staff have posted their thoughts before making CRt's this is because they want the community's views and want to make sure their argumentation is as good as it can be before asserting the claims in a formal way.

> 'but, uh, tier four naruto can't be debunked rite?

This is such a blatant strawman, even the OP never implied this.

"Isn't the reasoning behind Kaguya not scaling from the ETSB debunked?~ OP

This is OP coming to a conclusion, nothing in this sentence implies or tells you that you cannot debunk or challenge the assertion.

Your assertion of Sneaky in the context of Discussion implies underhanded and dishonesty, hence the definition; which is not present here in anyway, your projecting negative connotations on the Op for no reason. Stop it, it's toxic and harmful for fruitful discussion, if you disagree or agree or have some input to add then do it but making comments like this brings nothing.
 
Kurama gives chakra to Kakashi na he says it at least 3x Later Naruto gives chakra to the allience Kakashi says it is more than he given before and it further solidifys with them having chakra cloak where Kakashi have one before, iirc his eyes didn't change too
 
i see. that makes so much more sense. than that means if he gave some kurama chakra to kurama, kurama wouldve also gotten 3x times stronger, just cuz he gave like, 5 percent of his chakra to kakashi and kakashi got 3x time stronger? totally makes sense. adding ur own chakra to ur own chakra= 3 times ur previous chakra lvl. this is why we have shit like base ay being rel+ lmao
 
you can be willfully blind if you want shadow, but this threads purpose is to slowly corrode the idea that tier four is wrong and that it should be the case. in your words, it is quite a roundabout underhanded way to defeat the opposition instead of facing it head on.
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
i see. that makes so much more sense. than that means if he gave some kurama chakra to kurama, kurama wouldve also gotten 3x times stronger, just cuz he gave like, 5 percent of his chakra to kakashi and kakashi got 3x time stronger? totally makes sense. adding ur own chakra to ur own chakra= 3 times ur previous chakra lvl. this is why we have shit like base ay being rel+ lmao
Click to expand...
What??? This comment hurts my head

  • then
 
> you can be willfully blind if you want shadow, but this threads purpose is to slowly corrode the idea that tier four is wrong and that it should be the case.

you realize this reasoning is faulty , it can be applied to every Crt and every discussion that challenges the status quo, instead of tackling the argument or discussing it you hide behind your safety net of making comments that bring no substance to the discussion while driving a wedge through any sort of discourse.

> it is quite a roundabout underhanded way to defeat the opposition instead of facing it head on.

this argument falls flat on it's face when you realize any person that is of opposition to the argument can debunk and counter or discuss it in this thread and they can bring their arguments with them if the same OP would apply the same arguments in a CRT.

there's a difference between saying why you believe something and asking for Opinions and asserting your believe as truth for the purpose of changing a system, the one thing can lead to the other but they are by definition not the same thing and combining the two to to purposely make the OP bad is juvenile.

attack the Argument not the person.
 
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